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Looking for best 1080P projector under 40K!

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
I am interested in upgrading from my current runco projector which is from about 1999. I have already upgraded my entire home theater system but am yet to upgrade my projector. I am considering the Meridian MF1 but want to make sure there is nothing better on the market or coming out soon. Please Help!
post #2 of 36
FWIW I pulled the trigger on an MF-1 and then called the dealer the next ay when I read the postings here about the RS-1...the dealer was also going to purchase an MF-1 for himslef and he took pause...thus I leveradged on his uncertainty and cancelled my order.

What I will be doing is as follows -- wait until the RS1 is released and then, assuming it is as good as it is suppose to be, purchase Meridian version which will replace the current MF-2 and is rumoured to be RS-1 + Meridian tweaks + Phelps optiomization...should be a killer even though it will cost a couple/few thousand more than JVC's version...

Hope this helps.
post #3 of 36
The Titan
post #4 of 36
I too was looking for a projector under 40K! And chose the RS1 at 1/8th the cost. The cash I save I'll use to buy a couple of import cars
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

FWIW I pulled the trigger on an MF-1 and then called the dealer the next ay when I read the postings here about the RS-1...the dealer was also going to purchase an MF-1 for himslef and he took pause...thus I leveradged on his uncertainty and cancelled my order.

What I will be doing is as follows -- wait until the RS1 is released and then, assuming it is as good as it is suppose to be, purchase Meridian version which will replace the current MF-2 and is rumoured to be RS-1 + Meridian tweaks + Phelps optiomization...should be a killer even though it will cost a couple/few thousand more than JVC's version...

Hope this helps.

What types of "tweaks" are expected?
post #6 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

I too was looking for a projector under 40K! And chose the RS1 at 1/8th the cost. The cash I save I'll use to buy a couple of import cars

I believe the DPI Titan 250 is around the $35k mark - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hp?p=8342126&&

They don't publish their prices so if anybody knows better I would be interested in seeing how much they do really cost. You get what you pay for, the Titan 250 will be a lot better than the RS1 and would probably be the last projector you will ever need to buy... cars go in and out fashion
Besides, you can only travel within your country in a car. With a 3 chip 1080p projector you could journey to the furthest reaches of man's imagination!
post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

What types of "tweaks" are expected?

Lovingdvd...no one knows as of yet...that said, there are a number of tweaks that were made to the MF-1 in addition to a differnt casing (i.e. it is quieter).

Time will tell...
post #8 of 36
According to my 2007 price list:

Titan 1080P-250 = list is 42,995 with standard lens, upgraded lenses are 1500 each

Titan 1080P-250 EX (includes Isco III, scaler, lens slide) = List is 62,480 with standard lens, upgraded lenses are the same 1500 each.

Dan
post #9 of 36
$8000 off the mark, not too bad. I mean, spending $40K on a projector is fine, but spending $43K! Totally out of the question.
Cheers Dan, interesting to see what these go for.
post #10 of 36
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all of your responses so far! Has anyone had a chance to view both the Titan and the MF1? I am curious how they match up.

-Daniel
post #11 of 36
Hopefully Alan will be posting a review of the Titan soon, worth the wait I am sure.
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacobsbu View Post

I am interested in upgrading from my current runco projector which is from about 1999. I have already upgraded my entire home theater system but am yet to upgrade my projector. I am considering the Meridian MF1 but want to make sure there is nothing better on the market or coming out soon. Please Help!

It is important that you define what you mean by the "best". There are many things that make up a projected image and no single device does them all the best.

If for example you are using a room with light colored walls and/or ceilings or an unusually large screen, then lots of brightness is going to be important and a 3 chip 1080p DLP such as the Titan or Sim2s version should be looked at.

On the other hand if you are looking at screen sizes up to about 10' wide, or have a dedicated room with light absorbing (dark paint or fabric) surfaces, then the combination of optics, video processing, and accuracy to the original signal will be delivered in our VP-11S1 at just under 20k (unless you are talking about long throw which is just over).

You guys knew that was coming didn't you?

Seriously, there is no more accurate overall projector out there, the limitation being in peak brightness.

Just to refresh, our lens is a scaled-down-for-home version of the same lens used by every DLP D-Cinema projector, using multi-coated, aspherical, apochromatic, ultra low dispersion glass in 14 elements from Konica-Minolta. Just for comparison, the cost to us of this lens alone is about the same as the landed USD cost of the Sony Pearl. What this gives you above the extreme sharpness you would expect from a lens like this is control over stray light for extremely high ANSI (intra-scene) contrast as well as uniformity in the high 90s range.

Our subchassis is a diecast aluminum/magnesium structure that is extremely rigid and houses the industry's only 10,800 RPM seven segment color wheel for front projection using a newly designed FDB motor. The colorwheel is also color corrected for the high yellow content of short-arc high pressure mercury lamps which sacrifices a bit of brightness for high color accuracy.

The video processing is second generation Gennum which has been (do to its programmability) customized for this device, and is the same processing used in the Christie Digital D-Cinema devices.

We will also start offering anamorphic options in January that will allow full automation of lens movement and screen masking (since you are obviously a high-end customer, you should strongly consider 2.35:1 -- It is WAY cool).

The point is that there is no "best" projector any more that there is a "best" loudspeaker. You have to look at all (or as many as you can find) characteristics and determine your priorities.

If you are going to be anywhere near Vegas in January, you should try to get to our presentation at CES. We will be offsite at the Aladdin Hotel and will be showing everything I just spoke about.

And thanks for taking the time to read my obvious plug...
post #13 of 36
Joelc
I wonder if Meridian is going away from Faroudja processing in the next generation. Is that even possible. To me it seems that Faroudja has stopped working and are just riding their reputation. Other video processing companies seem to work like crazy to get every percent of performance from their hardware.
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Joelc
I wonder if Meridian is going away from Faroudja processing in the next generation. Is that even possible. To me it seems that Faroudja has stopped working and are just riding their reputation. Other video processing companies seem to work like crazy to get every percent of performance from their hardware.

Mattias:

As:

1. Meridian now owns Faroudja; and
2. Meridian has developed and bundled a new 1080p capable video processor with the MF-1

I would be very surprised were they to move away from Faroudja...that said, tese are opnly my thoughts!

Joel
post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Miller View Post

It is important that you define what you mean by the "best". There are many things that make up a projected image and no single device does them all the best.

If for example you are using a room with light colored walls and/or ceilings or an unusually large screen, then lots of brightness is going to be important and a 3 chip 1080p DLP such as the Titan or Sim2s version should be looked at.

On the other hand if you are looking at screen sizes up to about 10' wide, or have a dedicated room with light absorbing (dark paint or fabric) surfaces, then the combination of optics, video processing, and accuracy to the original signal will be delivered in our VP-11S1 at just under 20k (unless you are talking about long throw which is just over).

You guys knew that was coming didn't you?

Seriously, there is no more accurate overall projector out there, the limitation being in peak brightness.

Just to refresh, our lens is a scaled-down-for-home version of the same lens used by every DLP D-Cinema projector, using multi-coated, aspherical, apochromatic, ultra low dispersion glass in 14 elements from Konica-Minolta. Just for comparison, the cost to us of this lens alone is about the same as the landed USD cost of the Sony Pearl. What this gives you above the extreme sharpness you would expect from a lens like this is control over stray light for extremely high ANSI (intra-scene) contrast as well as uniformity in the high 90s range.

Our subchassis is a diecast aluminum/magnesium structure that is extremely rigid and houses the industry's only 10,800 RPM seven segment color wheel for front projection using a newly designed FDB motor. The colorwheel is also color corrected for the high yellow content of short-arc high pressure mercury lamps which sacrifices a bit of brightness for high color accuracy.

The video processing is second generation Gennum which has been (do to its programmability) customized for this device, and is the same processing used in the Christie Digital D-Cinema devices.

We will also start offering anamorphic options in January that will allow full automation of lens movement and screen masking (since you are obviously a high-end customer, you should strongly consider 2.35:1 -- It is WAY cool).

The point is that there is no "best" projector any more that there is a "best" loudspeaker. You have to look at all (or as many as you can find) characteristics and determine your priorities.

If you are going to be anywhere near Vegas in January, you should try to get to our presentation at CES. We will be offsite at the Aladdin Hotel and will be showing everything I just spoke about.

And thanks for taking the time to read my obvious plug...

Hi Dan,
A basic question: What will a 3 chip DLP projector of the same quality of your VP-11S1 do for the video quality that your single chip can't do??? Just trying to figure out what the 3 chip brings to the table , if everything else is equal. My room is totally dark. Can your product be used with a torus screen? And what about that 2.35:1 option?
regards
post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburnstein View Post

Hi Dan,
A basic question: What will a 3 chip DLP projector of the same quality of your VP-11S1 do for the video quality that your single chip can't do??? Just trying to figure out what the 3 chip brings to the table , if everything else is equal. My room is totally dark. Can your product be used with a torus screen? And what about that 2.35:1 option?
regards

As a sweeping generalization, all other things being equal, a three chip will have much more brightness, due to the lack of efficiency of a color wheel system in the single chip design. Also the colors will be purer, due to prisms splitting the bandwidth instead of filters. There will also be more control over lower bit (i.e. darker) images, since each color has the full amount of time per each frame of video in which to flip mirrors, so higher bit depths are possible (in D-Cinema, 14 bit color is used).

The downsides are a much more complex optical system, which can cause alignment issues. Given that the pixel pitch is roughly 1/10 the width of a human hair, it doesn't take much to have problems.

We are working to develop our OWN 3-chip 1080p design, but the costs and therefore the pricing is astronomical. It is very hard to justify for the bean counters in Japan a project that would take so many resources and would deliver not much more than status for the team. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but I'm not holding my breath. Our standards are really high, probably too much so, because of what we have done with the VP-12/11 series. That projector was developed when there were no other competitors at all, so no compromises were made. That's good in the beginning because it sets a very high bar, but there are companies that will sell more than 10x per month of their 1080p sets than we will. Even though there will be more Chevys sold than there will be BMWs, we still have to pay the bills. So 3 chip development is more of a side project for the moment.
post #17 of 36
Interesting stuff Dan, you should have a word with the people who run Marantz UK. I have been in the market for high end projector and when I called them up trying to find somewhere to demo any of their projectors they just told me "Most people who are interested have seen them at trade shows and there is nowhere we know of where you can demo one".
It's a shame as I would love to see what the 11s1 was actually like but you will have to excuse me for not wanting to buy a £10K projector blind.
post #18 of 36
Have you tried http://www.cinemaexperience.com Daniel?
Uncle Eric has had one in his room for a while now - I bet he'd be annoyed that Marantz UK didn't recommend him.
post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Interesting stuff Dan, you should have a word with the people who run Marantz UK. I have been in the market for high end projector and when I called them up trying to find somewhere to demo any of their projectors they just told me "Most people who are interested have seen them at trade shows and there is nowhere we know of where you can demo one".
It's a shame as I would love to see what the 11s1 was actually like but you will have to excuse me for not wanting to buy a £10K projector blind.

It isn't Marantz, because we don't sell direct to the dealers, so we don't know who has them on display. I'm not sure if that's the case in the UK, so I can't speak for them, but I know if someone asked me in the states I could find out with a couple of calls.

Where are you close to? I will try to see if I can break through...
post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

1. Meridian now owns Faroudja; and
2. Meridian has developed and bundled a new 1080p capable video processor with the MF-1

I would be very surprised were they to move away from Faroudja...that said, tese are opnly my thoughts!

Strictly Meridian does not own Faroudja, but has entered into an exclusive deal with Genesis Microchip which "gives Meridian an exclusive worldwide licence to develop the Faroudja products and brand, manufacturing and internationally distributing Faroudja equipment and co-developing new products with Genesis".

The Faroudja tie-in has given Meridian a foothold in video. As far as processing is concerned, at the moment, I think you can do better elsewhere. I expect that to change as Meridian thinking influences new MF products.

I may be wrong, but I thought the DVP-1080MF was pretty much a rebranded Faroudja VP. It's specs do not impress me one bit - certainly not compared with the Crystalio II and forthcoming RadianceXD. It has one digital input, doesn't do 24/48Hz genlock, and for 1080p inputs most of the advanced processing options are only available if you downscale to 720p, process, and then upscale back to 1080p again!!!
post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post


The Faroudja tie-in has given Meridian a foothold in video. As far as processing is concerned, at the moment, I think you can do better elsewhere. I expect that to change as Meridian thinking influences new MF products.

I may be wrong, but I thought the DVP-1080MF was pretty much a rebranded Faroudja VP. It's specs do not impress me one bit - certainly not compared with the Crystalio II and forthcoming RadianceXD. It has one digital input, doesn't do 24/48Hz genlock, and for 1080p inputs most of the advanced processing options are only available if you downscale to 720p, process, and then upscale back to 1080p again!!!

VirusKiller:

Nice to see you on this side of the pond -- assuming, of course, you recognize me from your side of the pond.

That said -- 1) Agreed, that with Meridian now in the game the VP will get better. I am, nonetheless, sticking with Luamgen and eagerly await receipt of their RadianceXD processor within the next month or so 2) The DVP-1080MF is definitely not a rebranded Faroudja. I know this necause I did a lot of research before ordering (and then cancelling) my order for an MF-1 projector. decided to cancel because it appears as thought the JVC-RS1 will give it a run for its money for 1/3 the cost...and yes, I will wait for the Meridian version.
post #22 of 36
djacobsbu,

As Dan Miller stated the term best is pretty arbitrary, but at $40K the best should get you something that is "better" than a projector that cost $10K.

So what makes a $40K projector "better" than a $10K? Well the answer is usually brightness, but how much do you need? If you ONLY watch in a very dark environment and your screen is say 100" diagonally then anything over 1000 lumens is going to be a waste. But, if you have say a 120" diagonal screen and/or watch sports with some lights on, then more lumens will definitely be worth it.

The only caution I would have about the industrial units is giving them the proper power, acoustic isolation and cooling. The Titan will probably need a good deal of installation work.
You might want to consider some of the high-end 1-chip designs that use multiple lamps. Most (if not all) are based of the ProjectionDesign Action 1080p which is a Norwegian company ( www.projectiondesign.com ). That company's projectors get rebadged and sold as both Christie projectors or Digital Projection unts.

The final option would be to go to 4K resolution. Sounds crazy? Well you could probably get one of Sony's 5000 lumen 4K units for about $50K. The projector takes in up to 4 HD-SDI signals so you could watch four 720p/1080i football games at once if you wanted to or just feed it a single 1080i signal and let it up-convert it to 3840 X 2160.

Anyway here's my wish list with some loose price guesstimates.

1. ~$60K: Digital Projection Titan - Plenty of light, three chip DLP, but physically large.

2. $50-60K: Sony 4K projector - Plenty of light, unmatched 4K resolution, but bulky and only so-so contrast.

3. $25K: Projection Design 1080p - Good amount of light, small and quiet, but only a 1-chip design so you might see some image artifacts.

4. $10K: The rest of the 1080p projectors - Less light output, but very user-friendly and plenty of different models to chose from.

Good luck. For $40K I would go big and bright, but your needs (or should I say "wants") might dictate otherwise.

-Mr. Wigggles
post #23 of 36
very eloquent post!

excellent
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

Interesting stuff Dan, you should have a word with the people who run Marantz UK. I have been in the market for high end projector and when I called them up trying to find somewhere to demo any of their projectors they just told me "Most people who are interested have seen them at trade shows and there is nowhere we know of where you can demo one".
It's a shame as I would love to see what the 11s1 was actually like but you will have to excuse me for not wanting to buy a £10K projector blind.

Check your PMs...

Happy New Year!
post #25 of 36
Have done and I look forward to seeing a demo!
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Miller View Post

It is important that you define what you mean by the "best". There are many things that make up a projected image and no single device does them all the best.

If for example you are using a room with light colored walls and/or ceilings or an unusually large screen, then lots of brightness is going to be important and a 3 chip 1080p DLP such as the Titan or Sim2s version should be looked at.

On the other hand if you are looking at screen sizes up to about 10' wide, or have a dedicated room with light absorbing (dark paint or fabric) surfaces, then the combination of optics, video processing, and accuracy to the original signal will be delivered in our VP-11S1 at just under 20k (unless you are talking about long throw which is just over).

You guys knew that was coming didn't you?

Seriously, there is no more accurate overall projector out there, the limitation being in peak brightness.

Just to refresh, our lens is a scaled-down-for-home version of the same lens used by every DLP D-Cinema projector, using multi-coated, aspherical, apochromatic, ultra low dispersion glass in 14 elements from Konica-Minolta. Just for comparison, the cost to us of this lens alone is about the same as the landed USD cost of the Sony Pearl. What this gives you above the extreme sharpness you would expect from a lens like this is control over stray light for extremely high ANSI (intra-scene) contrast as well as uniformity in the high 90s range.

Our subchassis is a diecast aluminum/magnesium structure that is extremely rigid and houses the industry's only 10,800 RPM seven segment color wheel for front projection using a newly designed FDB motor. The colorwheel is also color corrected for the high yellow content of short-arc high pressure mercury lamps which sacrifices a bit of brightness for high color accuracy.

The video processing is second generation Gennum which has been (do to its programmability) customized for this device, and is the same processing used in the Christie Digital D-Cinema devices.

We will also start offering anamorphic options in January that will allow full automation of lens movement and screen masking (since you are obviously a high-end customer, you should strongly consider 2.35:1 -- It is WAY cool).

The point is that there is no "best" projector any more that there is a "best" loudspeaker. You have to look at all (or as many as you can find) characteristics and determine your priorities.

If you are going to be anywhere near Vegas in January, you should try to get to our presentation at CES. We will be offsite at the Aladdin Hotel and will be showing everything I just spoke about.

And thanks for taking the time to read my obvious plug...

Dan,
Are you guys planning anything that can do larger screens ( say 14' wide).

Art
post #27 of 36
Art, are you going to Lost Wages?
post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Miller View Post

Art, are you going to Lost Wages?

No I'm not. I've been to CEDIA the last four years since it seemed to concentrate things of interest for me .

Art
post #29 of 36
This discussion is best handled offline.

post #30 of 36
Can you see a $39,000 difference between the Meridian and the Pearl picture???
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