Mit. HC3100 vs. entry level 1080P units

Yes, I am thinking the same thing.

Considering an HC3100 and a scaler (DVDO HD) would cost the same as an entry level 1080 like either of the Benq, this is indeed a tough choice.

The only thing holding me back is the quality of the lens on the Mits, with very slight CA, as I'm considering a CIH setup...

Certainly a bargain basement DC3 machine would deliver in the contrast shadow detail domain..

what do others think?

My impressions on Optoma HD72i vs. Mitsu HC5000 can be found here , but remember that I'm not a big fan of 720p DLP's (or any other 720p projectors for that matter) and I own an HC5000.

Do you need to pay a $1000 or more for a scaler? If so, does it provide better picture qualitry than decent DVD player such as Oppo, Denon 2910 which can be found out there for $200 or so? I am asking since i don't know the answer myself.

If watching SD materials, i seriously doubt you would see any difference between 720p and 1080p. I doubt those who bought 1080p can see any difference (provided before they give their opinion, they are not told which picture is 1080p and which is 720p).

I compare them pricewise like this: the cheapest 1080p that is found around is about $3500. A decent 720p DLP rpjector can be found for $2000 or even less (can be found on Ebay for even less than that). A good but not pverpriced DVD player can be found for $200. So to me, 720p is still way cheaper than 1080p.

Ramin

But you have to remember that 1080p projectors usually have more advantages over 720p sets than just resolution: contrast, color production, shadow detail, less SDE, etc. All of those improvements are visible also with SD material.

Units that are similar in all aspects except resolution are quite rare. These other aspects are the main reason I purchased a 1080p set. If I could have got a 720p set without SDE, and with decent contrast and build quality for lot cheaper, I would've bought one.

At 12 feet from a 92" diagonal screen, you may not see the difference, almost certainly not on SD content. (From 9 feet away as I sit, I can see the stair-stepping on HD content, and I really want a 1080p projector but I cannot afford the current prices yet.)

I have the same dilema - entry level 1080p and HC3100 and I think I will go with Mitsubishi.

There are few screenshots foun in the net to consider. Try to find similar pictures with new 1080p LCD projectors

Another ones:

More:

And the last ones:

Yes. Those pictures are from korean review of HC3100.

Because current 1080p are too expensive (like SIM2 D80) or not woth the price (like Optoma HD81) - I watched them both, I was considering 1080p LCD projectors like Panasonic PT-AE1000, Epson TW1000 or Mitsubishi HC5000.

But in my opinion goog 720p DLP projector can give better results in overal PQ yhan entry level full HD LCD, especially if you sit far than 1.5 from screen.

I think that I will go with HC3100, which is price/performance winner, but I would like to watch also another good quality 720p DLP like IN78EX, SIM2 D35 and HT305, or maybe Marantz VP-12S4.

I sent you PM.

I have been following another thread where popple have compared 720p and 1080p projectors that are nearly identical in other aspects. Specifically two Marantz's and two Epson's: 720p, 1080p. The comparison pictures from projectors are strong evidence that 1080p projectors EVEN WHEN DISPLAYING HIGH QUALITY YD material do not transfer any more details or informational content than 720p projectors.
Of the Marantas ones picture was clearly showing more shadow details than the other one where most popple though it was coming from the 1080p one until the original posted revealed that was from the 720p projector which many including me had difficulty believing it!
Of the Epson ones, there was not extra details from the1080p projector even at 3-4feet distance from a 130'' screen! One could only see the SADE difference only at that close.
I do not see any SADE at 11-12feet distance from my 230cm wide (104" diagonal) screen with either my former LCD or current DLP projector and this is the minimum distance i would want to have from a screen that large or otherwise, i am not seeing the whole picture without having to turn my eyes around (meaning i can not catch the movie's atmosphere).

So i agree if 1080p projectors provide better contrast, less SDE, better blacks, they are the way to go. Though better picture quality is not to be believed without evidence. For the sake of the extra %50 resolution it would not be wise to pay the extra, in my opinion, since that do not make any difference in real world!

I went back and forth between the Epson TW 700 (720p LCD) and the Mitsubishi HC5000 (1080p LCD), both showing 1080p HD movies at a show earlier this autumn - I think the difference in picture quality were so great that I never ever considered buying the Epson. Both beeing new LCD models, I think that for myself that was comparison enough to make the descision.

People are different, some like to sit closer to the screen than others, some see screendoor where others don't, some experience the rainbow effect more easily than others, and some think that MP3 128kb/s sound just about the same as the original CD.

My point is - you have to see it for yourself, and don't judge by some screen shots. And reading that comparison thread 720p vs 1080p where people I really don't know set up the projectors and film source and gave their opinions on the internet - I would have thought I had wasted a whole lot of money buying the 1080p if I hadn't seen a new 720p LCD and 1080p LCD against each other myself.

There is no doubts that is significant improvement between D5 and D6 LCD panels, so it willbe major overal picture quality difference between 720p LCD and 1080p LCD projectors.

But in my opinion good 720p DLP based projector can give better overal picture quality than 1080p LCD based unit.
1080p DLP based projectors can go even better, but are much $$$

as others, have read through the thread... 64 retired and have been upgrading for a long time... and all I can say is, it sure has taken a long time to get to this point... talking about "receiving a HD signal in 1080P" in the United States of America, after how many years... with each new advance it only getts better, or at least that's the way I see, hear and feel electonics. Computers, PS3/Xbox.. Home Theater with the compoents only limited by your wife and/or check book. It' great time to be alive.. just hope they keep it coming.. better "Sound and Vision", and that dates me as on how long I've been following the Industry...

I'm now thing about going with a projector after reading this thread... have not seen any mention of Sony, I would think they should make a pretty good highend unit... will be looking ..

Have a 42" Plasma on the wall across the room 12' it's a Panasonic that runs in 720p with DVI/component, S and RCA.. has a high contrast 13/1 and the picture, except for the blacks is overall very good. Had a Sony 60" XBR rear projection before this unit (more room in my room)

Well, gone on long enough... and still would welcome recomendations

As someone who has seen a lot of 720p projectors both LCD and DLP, I can tell you without a doubt that at least in the LCD realm, 1080p is a whole new ballgame!

My irritation to SDE and other LCD artifacts is probably at the very top of the scale. With 1080p, those irritations melted away.

As far a DLP is concerned, rainbows and a harsh, fatiguing picture has always kept me away.

Although the Mitsu 5000 was double what a good 720p DLP or LCD costs, the decision was easy once I spent more than a few minutes comparing the two technologies. The difference was like comparing a ESQ Swiss watch with a Rolex.

I completely agree with that!



It confirms only that various people have different taste.
Look closely at the screenshots taken in the same conditions, with the same digital SLR and compare overall PQ between Mitsubishi HC3100 and HC5000.

HC3100:
http://dvdprime.dreamwiz.com/hardwar...&master_id=100

HC5000:
http://dvdprime.dreamwiz.com/hardwar...59&master_id=2

Especially screenshot with woman on the red couch and screenshot with teddy bear.

I am choosing HC3100 hands down.
Better deepth, bette contrast, better black level, better impact. No more details in HC5000, maybe slighty better sharpness.

Thanks for those links. I wrote a long answer here, but it disappeared for some reason. Anyway, after I wrote it I went back to those pages and discovered I could click on some of the pictures and expand them and then it came to me that something must be seriously wrong with the HC 5000 set up! Not only are those screen shots soft and "fuzzy" (in lack of better word) but they look seriously washed both in color and blacks.

No way I would have purchased my HC 5000 if that was what I'm looking at everyday!

The links kind of confirms what I said in my previous post. As far as overall picture quality is concerned, the 3100 will produce an excellent picture.

However, I assume you have had the chance to see the difference in person. The human eye can discern differences that screenshots do not (and cannot) show.

I would urge everyone who is considering spending at least several thousand dollars on a front projection system to personally audition one of the new 1080p units.

BTW: I would have loved to have seriously considered something like the 3100, however I have very stringent placement options and the 3100 like most DLP units in that price range don't have nearly the placement flexibility I needed.

Good luck with the 3100!

Epson TW700? I have not heard of that. In any case, were both projectors properly calibrated? How was the showroom and enviromental control? All of these affect the final output.

More importantly, the point is not that every 720p projector is as good as every 1080p projector. It really depends. The point is that a good 720p may probably not be in short of image quality when compared to a typical 1080p projector and indeed, it may even surpass it!
Resolution-wise, there does not seem to be any advantage no matter how close one may sit to the screen! Among the two Marantzes that were compared which share the same great optical and other component parts, the 720p showed better shadow details hence image depth and that would be my choice even if they were of the same price! Among the 1080p projectos, the upcoming JVC RS1 has caught my eyes with its 15000:1 NATIVE contrast and if it stands up to the claimed specifications, it will be a winner!

Epson TW700 is the newest LCD from Epson, launched this november. There might be another name for it in Canada and the USA, I haven't checked that.
And the showrooms/enviroment were similar.

I'm not saying that every 1080p projector is better than all the 720p projectors out there. My comparison were between the newest Epson 720 LCD and the newest (and only at the time) 1080p LCD. And as far as I know the Epson models have gotten pretty good reviews earlier and I've also heard nice stuff about this new LCD model. And believe me - it thought it looked good. But the Mistusbishi were a lot better.


For me there is no "there does not seem..." I used my own well trained MK II eyeballs to make the judgement.. It was so obvious that the there were a great advantage when moving closer to the screen on the Mitsubishi 1080p model. The image was still remaining sharp, yet free of artifacts and screendoor and very "movie like" (in lack of better words) on the Mitsubishi, while I can't say that for the Epson 720p version. Now, I agree that for people who sit further back, this difference is not so important or not important at all.


Of course it will be a winner! But far out of my price range!

The Optoma HD73 (DC3) is in limited shipping right now. You can see my comments in the under 3k forum.

On my uncalibrated monitor, I thought on the screenshot the HC5000 has better skin tone and better contrast.....I don't read korean but is both the pj set to factory default or claibrated to D65?