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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 48

post #1411 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

...I have noticed other customers not getting as much output out of their Aperions as they would like with Yamaha receivers more so than other brands.

Perfect! I also have an RX-V661 and am planning on upgrading to 6Ts and a 6C (still undecided on the surrounds). Along with the speaker upgrade, I am planning on getting an Emotive XPA-5 and relinquishing the Yamaha's amplification duties to my rear surrounds only. When the wife balks at the "need" for some much new audio gear at once, I'll simply show her Jason's quote for my rationale.

I can see it now: "Honey, you aren't suggesting I go against the advice of a certified guru, are you?"
post #1412 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetz View Post

Perfect! I also have an RX-V661 and am planning on upgrading to 6Ts and a 6C (still undecided on the surrounds). Along with the speaker upgrade, I am planning on getting an Emotive XPA-5 and relinquishing the Yamaha's amplification duties to my rear surrounds only. When the wife balks at the "need" for some much new audio gear at once, I'll simply show her Jason's quote for my rationale.

I can see it now: "Honey, you aren't suggesting I go against the advice of a certified guru, are you?"

What ever it takes, Hicks has big shoulders!

Cheers
post #1413 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppetz View Post

Perfect! I also have an RX-V661 and am planning on upgrading to 6Ts and a 6C (still undecided on the surrounds). Along with the speaker upgrade, I am planning on getting an Emotive XPA-5 and relinquishing the Yamaha's amplification duties to my rear surrounds only. When the wife balks at the "need" for some much new audio gear at once, I'll simply show her Jason's quote for my rationale.

I can see it now: "Honey, you aren't suggesting I go against the advice of a certified guru, are you?"

Ha, glad to help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaudio View Post

What ever it takes, Hicks has big shoulders!

Cheers

Metaphorically speaking, they are HUGE!
post #1414 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post



Metaphorically speaking, they are HUGE!

That's not what she said!! LOL
post #1415 of 6535
Hicks, just curious...what AVR are you running with you running with your Aperions or in your demo setups? Which ones do you prefer, recommend?
post #1416 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUKHUMYAI View Post

Hicks, just curious...what AVR are you running with you running with your Aperions or in your demo setups? Which ones do you prefer, recommend?

They are running an Onkyo TX-SR 875 in one of their rooms, in the other I'm not sure.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?cl...ver&m=TX-SR875
post #1417 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUKHUMYAI View Post

Hicks, just curious...what AVR are you running with you running with your Aperions or in your demo setups? Which ones do you prefer, recommend?

We do use the 875 in our small room and in the big demo room we use Outlaw 7700/990 amp/preamp separates. Both set ups sound great.

As far as recommendations Onkyo and Marantz are my go to suggestions, Denons are also high quality but not quite as easy to use for most folks.

Of course if a customer is thinking of going the higher end route like Rotel, Naim or even NAD I certainly won't discourage them from going for it.
post #1418 of 6535
What, no mention of HK??

M80's are now here. One box did not look good while being unloaded, it must have been loaded in the rain and the bottom literally fell out. Since there was no bottom I was able to see the speaker but it appeared undamaged, and later confirmed that after unpacking it. Axioms were not packed as nicely as the Aperions. The Aperions were more or less completely surround by foam, the Axioms had foam padding at key points, leaving other areas clear to the speaker if the box was punctured.

Axioms are setup and playing now (the Aperions have about 10 hours on them), so far they sound good, they seem to have a better low end out of the box than the 6T's, but I won't make a final call on that for another week or so.

Early impressions- the 6T's are a couple of inches taller, and a fair amount heavier. Knocking on the cabinets- the 6T's sound a lot deader than the Axiom and my current Cambridge cabinets. Looks wise, the 6T's win hands down, they're finish is much nicer looking, haven't gotten an opinion from the wife yet to see if she agrees. The Axioms look nice, better than my old speakers, but not on par with the cherry finish of the Aperions.

I'll let the Axioms play the rest of the afternoon before sitting down and trying to start some comparisons tonight.

Ps- speakers being powered by HK AVR-235. The wife is gone for a bit, maybe I'll turn it up some and see how it handles the 4 ohm load...
post #1419 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by armaraas View Post

What, no mention of HK??

M80's are now here. One box did not look good while being unloaded, it must have been loaded in the rain and the bottom literally fell out. Since there was no bottom I was able to see the speaker but it appeared undamaged, and later confirmed that after unpacking it. Axioms were not packed as nicely as the Aperions. The Aperions were more or less completely surround by foam, the Axioms had foam padding at key points, leaving other areas clear to the speaker if the box was punctured.

Axioms are setup and playing now (the Aperions have about 10 hours on them), so far they sound good, they seem to have a better low end out of the box than the 6T's, but I won't make a final call on that for another week or so.

Early impressions- the 6T's are a couple of inches taller, and a fair amount heavier. Knocking on the cabinets- the 6T's sound a lot deader than the Axiom and my current Cambridge cabinets. Looks wise, the 6T's win hands down, they're finish is much nicer looking, haven't gotten an opinion from the wife yet to see if she agrees. The Axioms look nice, better than my old speakers, but not on par with the cherry finish of the Aperions.

I'll let the Axioms play the rest of the afternoon before sitting down and trying to start some comparisons tonight.

Ps- speakers being powered by HK AVR-235. The wife is gone for a bit, maybe I'll turn it up some and see how it handles the 4 ohm load...

I am interested in reading your comparison later..
post #1420 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by armaraas View Post

What, no mention of HK??

Of course HK makes quality equipment, but I really like their stereo receivers quite a bit better than their surround receivers and most of our customers are looking for a unit for a 5.1/7.1 set up. Not to say that their surround receivers are bad, but they only have two HDMI inputs, they don't upscale to 1080p and I don't think they have Dolby TrueHD.
post #1421 of 6535
True, I've got an older one yet so no HDMI at all for me. I tend to be behind the times a bit, probably won't upgrade until I decide to go blu ray (plus since I just bought speakers, sub, room treatments...), though more HDMI connections would sure be nice...

However, it sounds like HK has some new receivers that just started coming out this week that resolve those short comings you mentioned- AVR-254 and 354. Sounds like they scaled down their selection so as to not have 5 receivers to choose from, just a 5.1 one receiver (AVR-154) and 2 7.1's, one rated at 50 wpc and the other 75.

AVR 254
7 x 50W 7.1-Channel A/V Receiver with HDMI 1.3a Repeater, Audio/Video Processing and Upscaling to 1080p
http://harmankardon.com/product_deta...%20254&sType=C
http://harmankardon.com/product_deta...C&prod=AVR+354


Hopefully the links work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Of course HK makes quality equipment, but I really like their stereo receivers quite a bit better than their surround receivers and most of our customers are looking for a unit for a 5.1/7.1 set up. Not to say that their surround receivers are bad, but they only have two HDMI inputs, they don't upscale to 1080p and I don't think they have Dolby TrueHD.
post #1422 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by armaraas View Post

True, I've got an older one yet so no HDMI at all for me. I tend to be behind the times a bit, probably won't upgrade until I decide to go blu ray (plus since I just bought speakers, sub, room treatments...), though more HDMI connections would sure be nice...

However, it sounds like HK has some new receivers that just started coming out this week that resolve those short comings you mentioned- AVR-254 and 354. Sounds like they scaled down their selection so as to not have 5 receivers to choose from, just a 5.1 one receiver (AVR-154) and 2 7.1's, one rated at 50 wpc and the other 75.

AVR 254
7 x 50W 7.1-Channel A/V Receiver with HDMIâ„¢ 1.3a Repeater, Audio/Video Processing and Upscaling to 1080p
http://harmankardon.com/product_deta...%20254&sType=C
http://harmankardon.com/product_deta...C&prod=AVR+354


Hopefully the links work...

Nice, those look sweet. Good to know they are catching up with the video processing stuff because their sound quality has always been top notch, thanks for the heads up!
post #1423 of 6535
Sorry, I get long winded when writing stories...

Alright, I did a little "critical" listening today with the wife. I should have well over 15 hours on both the Axioms and Aperions by now. I put my wife in the sweet spot, and let her pick the music that she was familiar with. I have speakers on either side of a 65" tv stand. I have the CSW Tower II's as the innermost speakers, 6T's in the middle, and the M80's on the outside.

Please note that I am pretty much an average joe, so excuse me if I use any common terms incorrectly, I'll just be trying to descibe what we heard...

I kept the testing blind for my wife so she couldn't play favorites with my old speakers. Since all the speakers were within inches of each other, it was diffcult to tell which was playing at a given time. For reference the 6T's were speaker 1, CSW were 2, and M80's were 3. Again the receiver used was an HK AVR-235, and kept SPL around the 80-82db range.

We started out with female singers, 10,000 Maniacs and a Dutch metal/goth band- Within Temptation (my music, she likes them both, but doesn't know what to make of liking something considered goth, heh...)

We started out with speaker 1 (6T), then went to speaker 2 (CSW), and back and forth a bit. Speaker 2 seemed a little more "fuller", just has more bass extension (dual 8" woofers), but there was a pretty big difference on the high end- the 6T's were much more clear and detailed, and the female voices sounded much more natural. Then we went back and forth a bit on speakers 1 and 3. Again the M80's had a little more bass emphasis, and more clarity and detail on the high end than the CSW, however it didn't seem quite as separated as the 6T's. We both agreed that speaker 1 was the preferred speaker for those songs.

Then we moved onto Blue Man Group Live, Tour 2.1. We started out with song 1, Above, that I mentioned earlier that threw out a huge soundstage. I explained soundstage and imaging to my wife the best I could, and played this song to demonstrate on the 6T's. She pointed out a couple of instruments as they came in, and she was pointing outside of the Axiom's. Then I switched to the CSW, and she pointed them just to inside of the CSW speakers. I switched over to the M80's, and she pointed them out just outside the M80's, but not as far as it was for the 6T's. I didn't get the sweet spot for this comparison, so I left it to her and she choose speaker 1 again, followed by 3, then speaker 2.

We then moved on to more Blue Man Group, Above the Roof, one of her favorites. Female singer, but lots of instruments and percussion. On just a straight comparison for preference, she choose speaker 2, which surprised me since she didn't like it for the other female voices. With both the M80's and CSW we could easily feel the bass through the couch, it was there with the 6T's too, just not as much. I asked her later why she choose speaker 2- was it because of the bass, and she said yes, probably was. I should have gone back and forth more on the M80's and CSW, I'm really surprised she didn't choose the M80's in that situation.

We then did a little casual listening to Phil Collins, But Seriously. We didn't get to deep into this one as we were wrapping it up before dinner, but the 6T's held their own on the low end, again not as pronounced as the other speakers, and I could see where they might get a bit boomy (well, I know the CSW can). I preferred the 6T's here too, they just sounded more natural and detailed.

So that wrapped it up more or less. My wife overall preferred speaker 1, but didn't want to know what they were yet. Well, I fired up Peter Gabriel while I sat down to write this (I sit on my couch in the sweet spot and surf the internet while on the big screen and listening to flac from the pc through my stereo), and turned up the song Growing Up, while having the 6T's connected. Holy cow, I never realized all what PG has going on in some of these songs. There were sounds going all over the place and literally sounded like they were going around me.

So I got my wife and sat her down to give a listen, and after a bit she looked at me and goes "cool" in the voice that really means, "why can't you just drop it already and leave me alone". I let it play a few more minutes and then stop it, and she just looks at me and says "speaker 2". So I swapped it to the other speakers for a listen, and her verdict on this demo was again speaker 1. She finally asked which one was which, so I told her 1 was the 6T's, 2 was the CSW and 3 was the M80's. She was kind of surprised, she thought 1 was the M80's, 2 was the 6T's, and 3 the old speakers (since she rarely choose them over the others). Looks wise she likes the 6T's best.

Overall so far, I would have to say there is no losing in choosing between Aperion and Axiom, it is a matter of personal preference, but neither speaker will leave you disappointed.

The Axioms dig a bit deeper still (I'm still planning on giving the 6T's a bit more time to break in), and they do well all around imaging wise and with detail. They have a good size soundstage, and they do like power, but are an easy 4 ohm load. I had them up to 100db yesterday for a few minutes, and they didn't seem stressed at all and sounded great, though I will no longer listen at such levels any more anyway so it doesn't matter much to me. The Aperion's kind of got overbearing for me at 100db, and I wasn't sure I would dare go any higher with them. The Axioms seemed to beg for more. I might try this again later to see if anything has changed after more of a break in.

What the Aperions have going for them- wider soundstage, more clarity and detail in the high end, a little better imaging, and looks- the finish is nice. The Axioms have a rough edge or two. The only thing I found with the 6T's is a hole about the size of a pin head in one of the grills, I didn't notice it until I had it off, but if I keep them I'm thinking I might try to get a replacement because the grill seems pretty thin, so I could see that hole growing easily. In fact grills on both the Aperions and Axioms are much thinner than on the CSW, which is neither good or bad, just is. Also, the 6T's take a little more to drive I believe and might be less efficient (haven't double checked), or maybe it's it because the M80's are 4 ohm, but I have to turn the receiver up 4-6db to get the 6T's level with the M80's.

In summary, I find myself currently favoring the 6T's. Now, if someone had asked me two weeks ago which speaker would I prefer, one that goes a little deeper and loves to be played loud and is more efficient, or one that performed a little better with soundstage and imaging and excelled at the high end, I would have said give me the efficient ones that have more bass!
Now that I've been able to actually compare them, I find that what I actually prefer is not what I thought it would be.

A very good example of why you have to listen for yourself.
So anyone looking for direction, take my comparison with a grain of salt (I haven't done enough of these to know if I have a clue what I'm saying makes any sense or is truly accurate), and take a listen for yourself. Your results may vary due to equipment, room, etc...

I plan on keeping both of these speakers at least another week and half, so I'll post back again on final results, if anything appears to change after more breaking in and experimenting, etc...I wish I could have gotten the RC-70's for comparison too, but I guess I still have 3 weeks if they go on sale again soon.

Thanks for reading if anyone made it this far...
post #1424 of 6535
Enjoyed reading your comparison / review. Good luck with your selection.
post #1425 of 6535
you did a great review. Thanks alot for your input. Have you by any chance watched any movies yet for comparison?
post #1426 of 6535
Yes great review...

Just curious.. What AVR are you using to power them??
post #1427 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagar852 View Post

Yes great review...

Just curious.. What AVR are you using to power them??


HK-AVR 235
post #1428 of 6535
Thanks guys.

BUKHUMYAI is correct, the receiver I am using is an HK AVR-235. I think about 3 years old or so, wpc rating is 55x7, for stereo might be 65, I can't remember though.

I haven't done anything video wise yet. Since I don't have the matching centers, I wasn't sure how to do it. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try/listen for? Should I just use the towers in my existing setup- 5.1 or 5.0, or change the settings on the receiver to 2 speaker mode and just use the towers? I'm thinking 2 speaker mode might be best to judge their performance? I should have some time tomorrow to play around with that.
post #1429 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by armaraas View Post

Thanks guys.

BUKHUMYAI is correct, the receiver I am using is an HK AVR-235. I think about 3 years old or so, wpc rating is 55x7, for stereo might be 65, I can't remember though.

I haven't done anything video wise yet. Since I don't have the matching centers, I wasn't sure how to do it. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try/listen for? Should I just use the towers in my existing setup- 5.1 or 5.0, or change the settings on the receiver to 2 speaker mode and just use the towers? I'm thinking 2 speaker mode might be best to judge their performance? I should have some time tomorrow to play around with that.

Yeah I would just do two channel, or if your receiver has a phantom center setting you can try that too.
post #1430 of 6535
Hicks, I've been reading alot about people using the same 3 speakers as their front sounstage. Everyone says that its is ideal to use 3 of the same speakers. Whats your take on using 3 5B's? One for the center versus the 5c as th center?
post #1431 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUKHUMYAI View Post

Hicks, I've been reading alot about people using the same 3 speakers as their front sounstage. Everyone says that its is ideal to use 3 of the same speakers. Whats your take on using 3 5B's? One for the center versus the 5c as th center?

There is a lot to be said for that, in fact some reviewers insist that in a 5.1 the five should be identical. In home reality that is not always practical. In the front the the mains and the center should be the same height, which basically requries wall mount and possibly at a height that is not optimal. The surrounds can be hard to fit in as they need to be higher and nobody likes to see the backside of speakers when entering the room. From a dollar standpoint the surrounds do much less and don't really need to be as big.

I like Aperions design of using identical tweeters across the board and then using 4", 5.5" and 6.5" mid/woofers that look the same and are probably from the same manufacture.

Cheers
post #1432 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUKHUMYAI View Post

Hicks, I've been reading alot about people using the same 3 speakers as their front sounstage. Everyone says that its is ideal to use 3 of the same speakers. Whats your take on using 3 5B's? One for the center versus the 5c as th center?

Personally I think having all three front speakers timbre matched is more important than having them all be identical. Like dynaudio mentioned all of our speakers use the same tweeters and they are all timbre matched as well.

In terms of using the 5B or the 5C as your center channel, I would definitely go with the 5C as that extra 4" midrange and passive radiator will give you a lot more fullness for you movie dialogue. Basically the 5C was designed to a center speaker while the 5B was not so the 5C will do a better job in the center position.
post #1433 of 6535
Hicks,
I have (gloss black) 532LR's and a 533VAC for the front, I don't have surrounds yet and the 532's & 422's are not available in gloss black anymore, so my question is:
Would using 4B's as surrounds be less ideal for me than trying to find some used or a-stock 532's or 432's considering they use new tweeters?

Bryan
post #1434 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treezskier View Post

Hicks,
I have (gloss black) 532LR's and a 533VAC for the front, I don't have surrounds yet and the 532's & 422's are not available in gloss black anymore, so my question is:
Would using 4B's as surrounds be less ideal for me than trying to find some used or a-stock 532's or 432's considering they use new tweeters?

Bryan

For multichannel music listening the 4B's would be less than ideal. For movie watching the 4B's would be great. If you want a perfectly matched system you could snatch up a couple gloss black 532 C's for your surrounds, I like that idea that's what I would do. Or just give Aperion a call and see what they got laying around. Good luck and let us know how it shakes out.
$162.
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...r,9,65,11.aspx
post #1435 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

For multichannel music listening the 4B's would be less than ideal. For movie watching the 4B's would be great. If you want a perfectly matched system you could snatch up a couple gloss black 532 C's for your surrounds, I like that idea that's what I would do. Or just give Aperion a call and see what they got laying around. Good luck and let us know how it shakes out.
$162.
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...r,9,65,11.aspx

What he said!
post #1436 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

For multichannel music listening the 4B's would be less than ideal. For movie watching the 4B's would be great. If you want a perfectly matched system you could snatch up a couple gloss black 532 C's for your surrounds, I like that idea that's what I would do. Or just give Aperion a call and see what they got laying around. Good luck and let us know how it shakes out.
$162.
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...r,9,65,11.aspx

Thanks,
I think I'll probably end up with 4B's. I think I prefer listening to music using 2.1. Plus I watch movies about 75% of the time with this setup so they should be fine. I would prefer the 532's for the back, but the extra cost, tougher mounting, and odd aesthetic's of having the 532C's probably isn't going to be worth it.

UNLESS, someone wants to sell their gloss black 532LR's to me so they can upgrade to the 5B's.............send me a PM if you want to unload.

Bryan
post #1437 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Personally I think having all three front speakers timbre matched is more important than having them all be identical. Like dynaudio mentioned all of our speakers use the same tweeters and they are all timbre matched as well.

In terms of using the 5B or the 5C as your center channel, I would definitely go with the 5C as that extra 4" midrange and passive radiator will give you a lot more fullness for you movie dialogue. Basically the 5C was designed to a center speaker while the 5B was not so the 5C will do a better job in the center position.

5C it is.
post #1438 of 6535
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUKHUMYAI View Post

5C it is.

Yes the 5C is awesome...
post #1439 of 6535
Well, I placed my order for a 5C today, I think I am going to stick with the Aperions for the front.
Does anyone else have Aperions for the front and Axioms for the rear? The Axioms are a fair amount cheaper since they're veneer, so I was thinking I might go with them. I was hoping to get all of my orders placed today since I am off next week and it would be nice to have a full setup by then, but I didn't get a chance to do some thorough voice comparisons between the Axioms and Aperions last night. I'll have to do that tonight.
post #1440 of 6535
Check it out guys, the 6T just beat out Paradigm, PSB and Dynaudio for the Playback Magazine Recommended 2008 award:

http://magazine.playbackmag.net/play...web/?folio=214

It's kind of a weird site design though, you have to click on the arrows at the top of the page to see the other pages, the arrow on the bottom is just for zoom.
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