*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 103

Originally Posted by uhcoogsfan

Well, I'm at the end of my 30 day trial period on the 6T's & 6C that I had ordered and wanted to give my take on the speakers and company. First the company. I'll guarantee that you will not find a better company to deal with! These guys both Jason and Oliver are great! They are very patient and willing to help. I think I called them 10-15 times during this trial period and they never rushed me or tried to get me off the line quickly. They were honest in their advice. And I know a lot of my questions were really stupid! There was some small damage to one of the speakers in transit to me and they took care of it quickly and I do mean quickly! So thanks guys, you will have a loyal customer here.

Now on to the 6T's. At first I couldn't understand why some of you were going on about how great these 6T's are for two channel music listening. (This is where a lot of questions were asked). I wasn't getting much bass, the detail and clarity were was phenominal. I learned that I didn't have the eq set right. I had run the Pioneer's MAAC calibration with these speakers. (I hate this these calibrations systems because to me they don't get music right, but it really is probably me). So once I got these eq'd properly, my impression was wow! Music sounds great, I get excellent detail, clarity and bass without the sub. Last night it really hit me when I listened to Joe Walsh's "But Seriously Folks" cd for the first time with these speakers. This cd has never sounded so good and now I'm in audio bliss.

I initially thought that I wanted the B&W 683 speakers but thought I would try the Aperions, no risk right! I'm glad I did! I also like the Paradigm Studio 60's and the Emotiva 8.3 a lot but for the price difference and for my budget and for performance I can't justify spending the extra cash. For me, I liked the Aperion's sound better. In all fairness to those speakers I didn't listen to them at home, the Emotiva's in someone elses home and the Paradigm's in the showroom.

So I guess you know by now that I decided to keep these bad boys and that I am grinning ear to ear. This also caused to me to upgrade my center. I tried both the 5C & the 6C. I had asked Jason about this and based on what he told me the 5C was sufficient. He was right (this is where the honesty came in). I had the 5C and at the moment it fit the bill, but I started thinking about the future and sent the 5C back and got the 6C to future proof.

Just to let you know I also use a Pioneer VSX-01, Emotiva UPA-7, PS3, directv hd and appletv for music.

So thanks Aperion, Jason and Oliver, I highly recommend these guys and their product.

How did you have it EQ'd wrong and what did you do to get it set right?

Originally Posted by uhcoogsfan

I have a Pioneer Elite receiver and used their MAAC auto calibration. It has an 11 band eq. When I first bought the receiver and set it up using the auto calibration I had my old speakers and everything sounded ok. So when I got the 6T's I reran the auto calibration. For movies it sounded good but for music it didn't sound as good. For a lot of songs I was getting great clarity and detail but it still had tin sound to it, no depth, very bright sound. Everything I read had said these speakers were more laid back than bright. And more importantly I was having to use the sub which I wanted to get away from for music.

After talking to Jason we tried some things, moving the speakers, playing the music without the eq on. This helped but something still wsn't right. I got into reading the Pioneer's manual (this helps huh!). Then I decided to get into and play with the eq. That's when I saw that on the bass side the eq was set up with negative numbers, i.e 63hz was set at -1.0. So I got into playing with the eq settings. I would adjust the left speaker, write down the settings and set the right speaker the same way. I think Pioneer makes this process harder because when adjusting the eq you are hearing pink noise and not the source. I kept playing with it until I got it to where I thought it sounded good.

Originally Posted by mhdiab

Crap uhcoogsfan - I am waiting for some open box 6T's and 6C to make its way back

Originally Posted by mhdiab

Crap uhcoogsfan - I am waiting for some open box 6T's and 6C to make its way back

Originally Posted by uhcoogsfan

Good luck, I got lucky on the 6C it was open box. I called and found it, so if you are just looking on their web site give 'em a call. I did just send the 5C back.

Originally Posted by gabor1

Crap uhcoogsfan - I am waiting for some open box 6T's and 6C to make its way back
I am selling my 6C center on audiogon... I got a good deal on some Triad speakers...

Originally Posted by lomanoi

I just bought a set of Intimus 4T Hybrid SD and hooked it up to Denon 3808CI. When music started, I noticed a delay (2-3 seconds) on bass from the subwoofer. I set the receiver to small front with sub turned on. Did I have some incorrect setup? Thank you.

Originally Posted by versicolor

I have an Elite too thats why I asked. I am thinking about some 6T's to replace my Paradigm Monitor 11's in the future. I'm having the same issue with my Paradigms for bass that you had with your 6T's. Maybe i'll try playing with the EQ as well. Thanks.

Originally Posted by versicolor

How does the 6C sound with the Elite? Also, can you describe the differences you notice soundwise between the 5C and 6C since you've had them both? Thanks.

Originally Posted by optivity

The Intimus 6T owner's guide says the "THX recommended setting for this speaker is small."

But "if you prefer, you may also set this speaker to Large to send it the full bandwidth of sound."

Originally Posted by uhcoogsfan

I don't understand why one would buy nice tower speakers that are capable of producing bass and set them to small. I'm not trying to start something just asking as a simple question trying to learn. To me when I set the 6T's to small I seem to lose a lot, sound wise. It seems to me why not buy smaller speakers and save money and space as one is not taking advantage of a big speakers full capability. Thanks!

Originally Posted by uhcoogsfan

I don't understand why one would buy nice tower speakers that are capable of producing bass and set them to small. I'm not trying to start something just asking as a simple question trying to learn. To me when I set the 6T's to small I seem to lose a lot, sound wise. It seems to me why not buy smaller speakers and save money and space as one is not taking advantage of a big speakers full capability. Thanks!

Originally Posted by dlenart25

It's all a matter of prefernce i suppose and how loud you like it. Even though the 6T's go low they still do not give you the 25hz range achieved with a subwoofer. And i would think that if you crank a 6T at full range you will not be as clean in the 25-30 hz range as you would if you crossed over the 6T's at 50hz and introduced a subwoofer take over, assuming you have integrated the subwoofer correctly into the system.

I have seen/heard systems with bigger towers crossed over and subwoofers that sounded great and others not so. I think the biggest advantage of a bigger tower like the 6T vs a 5T would be in the midrange and the speakers ability to create a wider/extended soundstage.

That being said, there are those that believe you should have a crossed over system with a sub and there are those that believe you shouldn't use a sub.

I will say my father has a pair of M&K's with 2 6.5" drivers and two tweeters in each capable of going pretty low, however he is crossing them over and is running the low end with a mamoth dual Driver 12" Sub. Sounds phenomenal.

Originally Posted by penngray

The 6Ts are rated to only 36Hz, correct? So if that is true they are not even considered full range speakers and if someone is running them full range they are lacking serious performance below 40Hz. I wouldn't consider these speakers worthy of LARGE settings. Its actually dangerous to send them signals below 36Hz, they are ported designs and you will "unload" the woofers below that frequency but Im sure they are protected below with internal filters.

Originally Posted by Hicks

I'm not going to get involved in the debate of whether crossing the 6Ts over at 80 Hz or running them as large sounds better as I do think it's subjective to a large degree.

I will say that I do not believe that sending a full range signal to the 6Ts is dangerous. I can't recall a single instance that someone has blown a woofer in the 6T and many of our customers do run them as large or fullband.

Originally Posted by Hicks

I'm not going to get involved in the debate of whether crossing the 6Ts over at 80 Hz or running them as large sounds better as I do think it's subjective to a large degree.

I will say that I do not believe that sending a full range signal to the 6Ts is dangerous. I can't recall a single instance that someone has blown a woofer in the 6T and many of our customers do run them as large or fullband.

Originally Posted by dlenart25

I will say that i can run my 5T's pretty loud in full band Pure Direct without issues...However, if there is a strong bass signal in the material i prefer the crossover with the S-10 picking up the low end.

But, the feeling is mutual in regards that it is strictly a user preference and their are proponents to both sides of the argument.

Originally Posted by penngray

As I posted they have to have a high pass filter in the box to protect the drivers because ALL ported boxes have the same issue without it.

Also, its not subjective at all where the crossover should be placed. Any measurement tool/software (max $150) will tell you want the best crossover is for mains and subs....that not up for debate and its not subjective for those who understand what im talking about.

Originally Posted by Pitch Shift

penngray, thank you for your insight into the nature of frequency response and crossover settings. I do have a few questions for you. Obviously you have a good knowledge of the science and mechanics of sound. However, have you considered that the nature of your posts in this thread could be considered by some here (I would proffer most) as rather condescending? I'm sure you can find a way to make your points without being so rude.

Second question; Have you listened to any Aperion speakers? Many well respected "audiophile" reviews have noted, many, many times, that benchmarks don't tell the whole story, and that a listening, or subjective test is required to assess a speaker's overall "sound quality". Playback magazine gave the 6T a recommended buy award in a 2.0 setup. Steve Guttenberg claims the bass response (presumably run full range) was "big and taut" with "overall low levels of distortion" (paraphrased).

While I for one believe very strongly in the importance of objectivity, and testing and setup methodologies that are scientific and standardized, I don't feel that completely invalidates a subjective approach. You may have frequency response graphs, room calibration equipment, and all manner of audio theory, but you don't have a graph or measurement for how much enjoyment you are getting. There is no scientific yardstick for "fun" yet. Enjoying the setup or not enjoying the setup is the single, most important aspect of a home theater. I don't think you can dispute that.

So please consider that when you make borderline insulting comments about how "accurate" a setup is or which "facts" someone chooses to ignore. Professionals like Jason Hicks peruse these forums in order to assist us, often providing advise to those who aren't even their customers. When he says "try it both ways and see which you like", I think he's giving the best possible advise, don't you? Especially given how familiar he and his engineering team must be with the product that they sell.