*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 113

Originally Posted by Pitch Shift

Guys, I think we're really missing the potential of Aperion's proposed setup. Being wireless is more of a convenience for the fronts. Honestly, if you consider the mark up, it would probably cost you less to have a contractor, or hell even a random Best Buy installer, run wires in your wall than to go wireless (which still needs power cords). People who have no option to conceal wires can rejoice as all they'll have to see is a few feet of power cord. On the other hand, audio lovers should be rejoicing because they are offering truly bi-amplified ICE powered speakers. Bi-amplification (with an active cross over) is a big deal. Save the money you were going to spend on amps, and throw half of it at a great processor. Not only will it be less expensive over all, but it will sound better, too. There are many, many articles on the benefits of active speakers. Automatic setup is just icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by optivity

A/V manufacturers continue to come up with new, creative ideas to keep A/V enthusiasts buying their components. 3-D TV & wireless speakers are two recent examples.

For the money/value I'll stick w/2-D PDP/LCD TVs & wired speakers until BIG screen OLEDs are available.

Originally Posted by PoliteNYC

I have an exposed brick wall in my Living room, which prevents me from mounting the TV because I don't want any wires showing from a mounted TV, not even in a wire chase, (violates my personal aesthetics rules) so the same rules would apply to the speakers. I'll have to really plan carefully for the bedroom because one of my side walls is all brick in a series of open arches. I've gotta say, living in a 100+ year old brownstone building has it's plusses and minuses. (Well, minuses only when wireless speakers runs up against my nutty interior design tastes.)

Originally Posted by dfost24

Originally Posted by PoliteNYC

Jumping off-topic for a sec to vent: I thought for sure that by now Sony would've came up with a bigger screen size for the XEL-1, the 11" OLED TV. It's been out almost 2 years now. And since they've just introduced the wireless receiver on the XBR10 model, the technology to detach the base is in production. I guess producing/mass marketing bigger OLED screen sizes is a daunting task. Okay, jumping back on-topic!

Originally Posted by mhdiab

Polite - this is a solution that I am looking at doing. You need to scroll down a bit, but see how the lights are on "columns" that comes out of the wall. You can attach something like this without damaging your wall and you could make it look good and run the cords inside of it. Just a thought

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=633842&page=1

Originally Posted by PoliteNYC

Sweet! My good man, you might have just solved my 'brick wall conundrum'. That is a fantastic look. I will have to have my friend who is a master carpenter look at your pics, and see how we can create panels for the Living room 'height' speakers. Thanks so much for sharing your innovation.

Now I'm about to unbox my two 5T's and 5C that got delivered today. Good times!

Originally Posted by MG428

I will really appreciate your comments regarding the below questions:

First off, I must admit I am quite a newbie when it comes to these types of issues. Sorry in advance for my lack of knowledge. I might be mixing concepts and products that may preclude you from giving a definitive answer. If that is the case, I don’t require a definite answer-- if you think that one product/configuration would more likely outperform the other in most respects, then that would be sufficient for me.

I have read many posts in various forums which state that the more subwoofers you get, the better performance you will achieve. Indeed 2 small sized subs are recommended instead of 1 bigger sub. These posts give similar examples like this: Two subs with 8 inch driver would perform better than only one sub with 10 inch driver.

My questions are about something else (though I will link them to the above statement):

1) Since Bravus subs include dual drivers, when I buy a Bravus subwoofer, say 8D, shall I consider this as if I am buying 2 separate subwoofers each including an 8 inch woofer, say two STF-1 subs from HSU? Would such configuration serve the purpose mentioned above? Or would I always need two separate subs for that regardless of how many woofers they include?

2) Would only one 8D outperform or at least be on par with HSU’s subwoofers that include a 10 inch woofer (STF-2 or even VTF-1) due to the fact that 8D includes dual woofers?

3) If your answers to the above questions are “No”, then what is the significance of having dual woofers in a sub?

4) Has anyone tried 2 Bravus subwoofers together (preferably 8Ds)? How do you find the performance difference between one vs. two of them together?

I am asking these questions because I have the following configuration and I may graduate to a Bravus subwoofer(s):

6 5B speakers
1 5C for center
1 HSU STF-2

The size of the room in which I use my speakers is not certain yet as I will move to an apartment that I have not determined yet. But I am quite impatient. And I know I can order 2 8Ds and try them out and return them for free within 30 days. Tough I thought that I require your initial thoughts, as I am fairly unknowledgeable about these kinds of stuff.

Thanks in advance for your time and attention.

Originally Posted by || Vitty ||

Here is the best answer I can give you.

1) While the bravus 8D does indeed have dual woofers it is not the same as buying two separate subwoofers. Reason being is that you can't physically separate the two. The reason you would buy two separate woofers would be to set them in two different locations in your room to more evenly spread out the bass. If you are in an apartment then two separate subwoofers wouldn't be needed in my opinion as you will get a good spread of bass frequencies with any Bravus.

2) Though I have not heard the HSU you reference I would have to assume the bass from an 8D would at least be on par with a single 10" woofer.

3) The significance of dual drivers in a single sub is that you will get the performance of a larger sub in a much smaller package. Thus 2 8" drivers would sound like a 10" driver and save you much space.

4) I have not tried two Bravus subs together. I do have a 12D though. I live in a townhouse and have the thing set to -10 on the sub and just over midway on my receiver. The thing POUNDS! I'm sure the neighbors are pleased with my purchase haha. You can get a 12D for the cost of 2 8D's if you are willing to buy open box or B stock. Mine has a very small scratch on the rear of the cabinet and I got it for a SUPER deal! It would fill any apartment with more bass than you would ever need and then some.

Originally Posted by MG428

Previosuly I asked the below question:



And a forumite replied as follows:




Now I am a bit confused with regard to his reply to the 3rd question because I have checked the specs of Bravus 8D and HSU STF-2, and the former can go as low as 25 Hz and the latter can go as low as 30 Hz. In fact in terms of frequency response not the Bravus 8D but the 10D comes near to HSU STF-2, yet 10D still cannot outperform STF-2 in this respect, as it can go as low as 26 Hz.

I must note that I may be overlooking a very important factor in the specs. The specs of 8D and STF-2 are actually provided as follows in their manuals:

STF-2: 25 Hz, +/- 2 dB

8D: -3dB, 35Hz - 180Hz -- -6dB, 30Hz - 180Hz (The specs of Bravus subwoofers shows this 6dB as "minus", but when two subwoofers, say 8D and 10D or 12D, are compared on the website, minus sign is not available. I am not sure which one is the correct one.)

If the above details (combination of dB information with Hz information) do not change the maximum amount these subwoofer can go down, then does not mean that 8D (even 10D) does not perform on par with STF-2?

I have also noticed that amplifier power of 8D is lower than that of STF-2 (150 vs 200).

So in which respects does 8D perform on par with STF-2? In particular, in what respects (including but not limited to frequency response and amplifier power) would you say that (i) I will get the performance of a larger sub, i.e. STF-2, in a smaller package that has a smaller but dual drivers, i.e. 8D; and (ii) the smaller dual drivers of 8D would sound like the bigger driver of STF-2?

Originally Posted by MG428

Previosuly I asked the below question:

And a forumite replied as follows:


Now I am a bit confused with regard to his reply to the 3rd question because I have checked the specs of Bravus 8D and HSU STF-2, and the former can go as low as 25 Hz and the latter can go as low as 30 Hz. In fact in terms of frequency response not the Bravus 8D but the 10D comes near to HSU STF-2, yet 10D still cannot outperform STF-2 in this respect, as it can go as low as 26 Hz.

I must note that I may be overlooking a very important factor with regard to the relation between dB and Hz in the specs. The specs of 8D and STF-2 are actually provided as follows in their manuals:

STF-2: 25 Hz, +/- 2 dB

8D: -3dB, 35Hz - 180Hz -- -6dB, 30Hz - 180Hz (The specs of Bravus subwoofers shows this 6dB as "minus", but when two subwoofers, say 8D and 10D or 12D, are compared on the website, minus sign is not available. I am not sure which one is the correct one.)

If the above details (combination of dB information with Hz information) do not change the maximum amount these subwoofer can go down, then does not this mean that 8D (even 10D) does not perform on par with STF-2?

Apart from the frequency response issue, I have also noticed that the amplifier power of 8D is lower than that of STF-2 (150 vs 200).

So in which respects does 8D perform on par with STF-2? In particular, in what respects (including but not limited to frequency response and amplifier power) would you agree with the forumite who had replied to my previous post and say that (i) I will get the performance of a larger sub, i.e. STF-2, in a smaller package that has a smaller but dual drivers, i.e. 8D; and (ii) the smaller dual drivers of 8D would sound like the bigger driver of STF-2?

Originally Posted by RedCamaroZSS

If you are unsure you could take advantage of the 30 day trial. It's very easy to do with aperion. I went from 10D to 12D after a couple weeks trial. The 10 was great but I have a rather large room so the 12 is a better fit for me. I do think both are impressive musically. The 12 just seems to get a little deeper for movies in my room. The size of these are both relatively small for the amount of sound they produce. I love my aperion system more each day.

Originally Posted by tristan2

I was thinking of starting out using my own sub and then ordering the 10D if I had any doubts. But taking advantage of the 30 day trial to do a side-by-side test may be that way to go. Thanks

Originally Posted by TenthScale

I need to figure out what else I need to add to my system.. Maybe do the bedroom now. My truck is finally empty and I have room to pick up more stuff.

Originally Posted by Hicks

Ha, glad to hear you finally got rid of it!

I've got a couple 10Ds here if you want to give them a shot too.

Originally Posted by Browninggold

where is everyone?

Originally Posted by BeckMule

^^^

Funny you should mention it; I was thinking the same thing. Five days is a long time without a single post.

Originally Posted by PoliteNYC

Hey Jason,

I've got the 5C & two 5T's (front L/R channels) connected to the Denon 4810. They sound sharp (putting the 4810 in 'stadium mode' and watching the baseball playoff games, niiice.) and I haven't even done any calibration (waiting until I have the whole 5:1 setup in place). I'll be ordering the two 5DBs next week!

Originally Posted by Rocket Queen

Hi guys,

Probably next month I will be buying a pair of 6B's to try out, they will be going up against the B&W 685. I know you guys talked about this earlier, but the 82db sensitivity is a bit of a concern for me. I think I'm okay for now, as for the next two years or so I'll be using them in stereo only powered by a YBA YA201 integrated. But after that they will probably move to HT. I plan to buy a Marantz receiver for that. What level of receiver would I need to look at in the Marantz line to adequately power the Aperion's?

Another concern I have is that I am in Canada. I know Aperion pays for shipping costs within the U.S. Does anyone know if they will cover the costs from, say, Oregon to Buffalo. Then I'd pay for getting them from Buffalo to my place (the Toronto area). This would help ease the cost of getting the speakers to Canada, which for a pair of bookshelves could add up to $100, maybe even more. Maybe it'll be prohibitively expensive no matter what. Are there any Canadians who can tell me how much shipping was? Or someone from Aperion (Jason?), could you tell me based on your knowledge what kind of charges I'd be looking at? I know you guys ship via Purolator, which is great, because I despise UPS!

Originally Posted by optivity

Have you seen the review of Aperion Audio's Intimus 6T-DB Hybrid XD speaker system @ Audioholics Online A/V Magazine?

"After listening to so much music, we barely had time for an official evaluation of movies, but we had watched several and found the results to be more than a little satisfying. Explosions, like those in U-571 and Heat, were off the hook and dialogue was always crystal clear from the Intimus 6C center channel - something that made intelligibility a serious strength of this system. In a nutshell, movies were a blast (quite literally sometimes). The bottom line is that the Aperion Audio Intimus 6T-DB Hybrid XD system is one of those systems you'll get hooked on quickly. There's simply no way to miss how well they mesh together into a cohesive system and how well they handle lots of output without compressing the top end or losing control over the bottom frequencies. I wonder how well the system would do with two subs - I suspect that would be an upgrade many users might want to consider for even better bass integration.


About the only concern with these speakers is that 'they give what they get'. If you feed them compressed, high-energy music or poorly-recorded material you're going to be assaulted back with fatiguing results. If you send them high resolution audio, you'll be in for hours of pleasing listening enjoyment. This is a well-rounded system that is sure to please for both music and movies. At just over $3700 for a complete 5.1 system that doesn't really skimp on anything, this is not only a good-sounding system - it's a bargain."

Originally Posted by salukijac
Jason,
So if I went with bookshelves, it would look like this:
5Bs - Fronts
4BPs - Rears
5C - Center
10D - Sub

Originally Posted by RedCamaroZSS

I would go as big as you can afford and space will allow (that way you won't have regrets). If it all has to be on the wall, probably just upgrade to the 5BPs instead of the 4. Other than that, I'd save the money instead of trying to purposely spend 3k. Otherwise, if you can change to the towers, I would do that.

Originally Posted by salukijac

Hi Jason,
A while back I asked you a recomendation and we worked to the set up above. I gave you a couple of assumptions and one of them was the budget of $2K.
Let's assume a higher budget of ~$3K. Is there a different set up that will suffice for the room? And of course that I can justify the extra grand for? The requirement of on wall speakers still remains.

Also, I tried to visualize what the set would look like and this is what I came up with. Any suggestions on the placement? I think the black ones will look better.
Attachment 154796

This is what someone else suggested.
Attachment 154795

Originally Posted by BeckMule

^^^
Wait until you run Audyssey with your setup - amazing. I've got the same speakers as you along with a 3808 and Audyssey makes a huge difference. Why not run it with your current speakers; you can always re-run it later when the additional speakers are in the mix. I'm sure you've read batpig's setup guide; Audyssey, run correctly, is awesome.