*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 114

^^^

Definitely; and that <$20 tripod is worth every penny. Not only are the measurements more accurate than a kludge, but it makes the entire process (moving the mic to 8 different positions) a lot easier.

Help! Looking for some expert advice from you folks here on this forum. Building my home theater from scratch (addition to the house) and need some advice. First of all, the basics:

- 17x16 room
- Plans are with the city now for permits...haven't broken ground yet
- 7.1 set-up that will (probably) be driven by an Onkyo 807
- Usage: 40% PS3 gaming, 40% HDTV, 20% movies. Probably little to no music.
- Promised the wife the room would be multi-purpose (treadmill in there, kids can have friends over, she can have girls night)...so it can't feel like a pure theater...so I'm trying to not go too overkill on the speakers.

I was originally thinking all in-walls to save some space (room is not that big) and aesthetics. Went over to Aperion today (live a few miles away) to test out the demo room. One thing became abundantly clear...I'm now doing 5T towers in the front and the 5C center. Forget the in-walls ;-) And I think I've settled on the sub: 8D

Now I'm left with my side and rear surrounds. This is where I start to get confused. They are used so little I was thinking to go with the 6-IW in-walls. In the demo room I heard the 5DB and it sounded GOOD. But I just kept thinking that my room was going to be about 5 feet shorter than that room and my sides and rears will be a lot closer together...so is the 5DB overkill? The way I see it, here are my options for my sides and rears:

- (4) 6-IW in-walls sides and rears
- (2) 5DB sides, (2) 6-IW rears
- (2) 5DB sides, (2) 4BP rears
- (4) 4BP for sides and rears
- (2) 4BP sides, (2) 6-IW rears

I keep thinking that with a room that is only 16 x 17 I'm not going to need a TON of side/rear power. Seating will probably be at about the 12 foot mark so you'd have sides at about 12 feet and rears about 5 feet back.

So, looking for suggestions to pair with the 5Ts...the last consideration I have is that the ONLY wall I'm worried about in-walls on is the rear wall since it shares a wall with our kitchen. The other walls share with either outside or the garage so not worried about in-walls for the sides. Perhaps I consider something like the 4BP for the rear to avoid sound seeping into the kitchen?

AHHHH!!!! Maddness!!!

Before a few hours ago (the demo room) I thought in-walls were the way to go. Now I'm lost...but those 5Ts...mmmmm.... Suggestions from anyone to help clear my brain is welcome!

Thanks!

I don't have any advice to offer, but I'm curious why you are so certain about the 5Ts after visiting the showroom? What did you see/hear that made you sure you wanted the 5T over the 4T or the 6T?

6Ts would be WAY too big for my room. 4Ts would probably work (and to be honest I didn't hear those demoed)...but they just seemed too small...

Being that the demo room is close to the size of my room, the 5Ts just sounded fantastic.

first post..

Do most people feel that the 6T's would be too much for a small room? I myself have a 15x15 living room in my house and was thinking of the 6T's over the 5T's because they looked great and had great reviews.

Thinking of the following setup
Receiver: Denon AVR3310ci
Towers: Aperion 6Ts
Center: Aperion 5C
Surround: Aperion 5Bs
Sub: Epik Sentinel
Type of sounds: Mostly HT and gaming. Some music.

I'm not an audiophile so maybe I should switch to the 5Ts and 4Bs?

As a follow-up to my note above (#3398), I think I've come up with the following solution:

I'm actually starting to like the idea of maybe skipping the rear surrounds to start. No matter what I choose the room will be wired for 7.1. But I'm thinking I may start with a pair of 5DBs on the sides and skip the rears. My gut is telling me that given the room only being 16x17 I'm not going to get much benefit from the rears if I have the 5DBs on the sides. But...since it's pre-wired, I can always add some 6-IWs later. The other thing this solves is my concern about the rear wall being shared with the kitchen. By NOT installing rear in-walls, it will mean no speakers are mounted on walls that are shared with the house...the wife may appreciate that.

So I'd be looking at:

5C Center
5T Left and Rights
5DB Side Surrounds
8D Sub

I'm starting to like the feel of that. Any other thoughts?

Good to know. Thanks!

so i finally made my decision to buy from aperion instead of ED, i just have one issue....i dont know if i should get the 8d, or the hsu vtf-1.....my room is medium at best, and i really only want (can afford) a 3.1 right now, so im looking at the 4t (2) and the 5c....what do you guys think? and anyone who owns the 8d, do the modes (movie,game,music) sound good? im not really an audiophile and honestly dont know much about subwoofers, so im just looking for the better sub in the price range...i would say my room is 25 feet long and 15 feet wide


my room is around 3100 square feet, should i go with the 5t instead?

Not at all. I have a pair of 6Ts and a 6C in my FR, which is 16' X 20' with a 10' high ceiling.

The speakers seemed BIG when I first received them, just like my 60" PDP did. After a couple of months one becomes accustomed to the size of their A/V components and my speakers blend in well with their surroundings.

One thing that has not changed is the BIG, room-filling, sound these speakers generate.

While you cannot go wrong with any of Aperion's products, a good approach to follow regarding the purchase of A/V components is to buy as high-end as you can or are willing to afford.

Greetings,

First off let me state that: I must aknowledge i have never heard the 6T's But I understand there is a performance advantage most noticeably in two channel music applications, however less discernable for 5.1 applications in smaller to medium room sizes.


The intial reaction would be to get the biggest and best. But after the intial effect of the new purchase wears off you may think "am i getting the maximum benefit for the money i spent?" Did i get the right system to suit my needs? You need to set your expectations first. After you know what you need and want then it will be less stressful for you. Cuz all of us here know how stressful getting the right speaker system is.

In terms of 5T vs 6T i can say, both speakers were engineered for a purpose taking into account factors of price point, application and room size/configuration.


It has been well documented that the 6t has a distinct advantage over the 5T in terms of 2 channel audio performance. So i think you should ask yourself. Are you purely basing your decision on 2 channel music performance? If so, what percentage of your time will be dedicated to that? What does your music collection consist of? Do you have tons of CD's, Vinyl, etc..that must be listened to in two channel music? Will you be spending lots of time in front of them listening to music? What type of music do you listen to (i have heard some say they prefer the 5T's over 6T's for jazz music and 6T's for rock).

Taking into account the room size factor...I think in a smaller room the performance gap for two channel music between the 5T's and 6T's may be less noticeable becuase there is less space to fill, less distance to travel, in terms of the midbass drivers ability to create a wide soundstage. and the sensitivity differences between the two becomes less of a issue in a smaller space. I mean that really is what were talking about here regarding the benefits of the 6T over the 5T, right? The ability to create a wider, more expansive soundstage, making the material more immersive and believeable in 2 channel applications? At what point does the benefit of the 6T make it worth the extra money? In a small room, medium room or larger room? Is this a dedicated media room where one can go to get away or is a family room where there are people occupying it on most occasions? Do you want a speaker with a large or small footprint.

What i'm getting at here is if you're not looking for the ultimate experience in 2 channel audio in that room size the 5T's would be more than adequate. And would exceed any expectations you might walk away with after visiting a Best Buy store or similar.

another thing to consider is your surround situation. If you are looking for a well rounded 5.1 system to be used for both 5.1 music and movies but excelling in multichannel music you may want to consider a front firing bookshelf speaker positioned slightly behind your seating position, angled towards you. If you want it tailored specifically to ge the most of of movies then you might look and the 4 or 5 series dipole solutions, however you need to make sure the configuration of your room provides the recommended mountng options.

In a 15x15 size room a setup of 5T's, 5C and 5B's is going to be exceptional for the following (in the following order):
Movies and Concert DVD's in 5.1
Two Channel Music
Gaming

At one time in my life, i too was way to concerned about 5T vs 6T because i thought i wouldn't be happy with 2channel music. I went with the 5T (in a 15x20 room) and to tell you the truth i am truly happy. And to be even more honest, i hardly ever listen to two channel music, not because of performance but becuase i hardly own any music. I do Ipod stuff, Concert DVD's and occasional music channels from cable. At this point in my life, i'm glad i saved the extra 4-5 hundred bucks. Becuase i would have a set of awesome speakers sitting there underutilized. I'm to busy with 3 kids running around to spend much quality time in front of my 5T's enjoying 2 channel music. However, the family does spend a good amount of time watching movies, their favorite TV shows (including American Idol) and yes, Dad does get to occasionally enjoy a nice Concert DVD in 5.1 (most recently David Gilmour Remember that Night). For these applications, in my room size , the 5.1 system, including the 5T's, has been nothing short of exceptional for my uses.

I'm not suggesting you to shy away from the 6T, i'm just asking you to think about your expectations and how you are going to use the system before you make a decision? What factors are you faced with at home. I'm also asking you to look at your budget and always respect the WAF and FAF (family acceptance factor)!

There's a reason Aperion offers soo many choices, and that's becuase everyone has different needs. The important thing here is to decide which combination of products is best tailored to suit your needs. And to that end i must add, the 5T is no slouch when it comes to 2 channel music peformance. When i have guests over and the musics running they say "That sounds Good".

Best of luck to you.

Well-said, dlenart25. Thank you for the thoughtful advice.

A 5T system is what I started with ( also have 5C, 10B and 4B) and in a room your size will be fine especially with a good sub. I recently upgraded to 6Ts but my room is a good bit larger than yours. For 2ch music the difference is not subtle and the 6T fills the room much better especially bass and midrange. In a room your size mostly watching movies I think the 5T will be perfect. I only upgraded because I was near the end of my first year and wanted to take advantage of the trade in.

Does Aperion offer a "swap out" option for recently purchased speakers?

My FR set-up does not support an ideal placement for the 7.1 package I bouight so I am considering replacing the 5DB Dipole/Bipole speakers with 2 Intimus 5B bookshelf speakers.

Also, given the vast majority of my HT experience is confined to watching Cable TV and movies on Blu-ray disc; I'm wondering of a 7.1 set-up is more overkill than anything else and if perhaps going with a 5.1 surround system might better meet my needs?

If I change to a 5.1 configuration I could use the Intimus 5B Bookshelf or the Intimus 5DB Dipole/Bipole for the surround back speakers.

I have a Pioneer SC-07 AVR that supports THX Ultra2 settings, which enables 7.1 channel playback with 5.1 channel sources; but prefer the way my speakers sound using the receiver's Stream Direct modes instead.

Thoughts?

Greetings,
I would recommend getting in touch with a Guru. Hopefully something can be worked out.

Well one thing I would say is that we will see more 7.1 Blu-Rays coming out in the near future so once those start hitting the market then having a 7.1 system will pay off more so than now.

As for your question, we do have a trade up program but not a trade down program which is what 5DBs for 5Bs would be, so it would depend on how far out of your 30 day trial you are currently.

Like dlenart says, feel free to give us a call if you'd like to talk it over, thanks!

I have to admit I didn't do a ton of research through this thread to find my answer so I apologize in advance. If there is a post directly about this please just point it my way.

I recently just won a set of 6B's at the Oregon Coast GTG in gorgeous Cherry. They sound fantastic and I'm incredibly impressed with these guys! I currently have an AV123 X-SLS/CS setup for this room (secondary system) and now have the 6B's flanking the SLS'. The room isn't used for any critical listening or movie watching but I want to get the matching center for the 6B's but don't want to overspend on a secondary system. I am going to sell the SLS' and CS to help fund (or completely pay for) this swap.

This is a living room that is open to the dining room and kitchen. What center would you all recommend? I'm pretty sure the 4C just wouldn't be enough for my tastes so I'm going between the 5C and 6C. The 6C is obviously better but for a secondary system that isn't used that much am I just wasting my money?

Thanks for the help!

Scott

Here are a couple pics of the current setup for reference (oh and I'm getting a Marantz SR6001 to replace my current Denon AVR-887 that is having serious issues now ...

Hi,

I've been patrolling this forum and the Aperion site for weeks. After reading pages and pages of GREAT discussion, I think I've finalized my choice with the exception of which surrounds to use.

I'm 40% movie/TV, 20% game and 40% music. My family room is 13½W x 24L x 15H and while looking at the TV, I have windows/slider on the right, a kitchen behind my sectional and large cubies and a staircase on the left. The sweet spot on the couch is 10 feet from the TV. (Please see a photo of my room and a room diagram linked below for reference.)

I'm thinking of going with the following 5.1 system:

Onkyo 876
5Ts
5C
8D (mostly due to WAF)

and...either 4Bs, 5Bs or 4BPs for surrounds. This is where I get stuck.

Wall mounting the surrounds is not an option which is why I didn't list the 5DBs as a choice. My other issue is that my couch is 44 high. This means whatever surrounds I choose have to clear that height. Compounding my decision is the poor room acoustics.

My ultimate goal is great surround sound which I'm thinking means the 4BPs are my best option, but will those speakers work effectively in such an open area and on tall stands?

All thoughts and comments are welcomed and encouraged. Thanks!

Thanks for your response Mr. Hicks.

I plan to keep the 5DBs because 1) they, as well as the rest of my speakers are flawless, and 2) if I want to go back to a 5.1 setup I do have the two 5Bs to use for the rear surrounds.

Another thing I would like to point out to any potential buyers who are considering Aperion speakers is this company's customer service is outstanding. I have used Aperion's CS twice (replaced a 6T speaker platform, obtained Bravus 12D feet) and both times the representative I contacted was professional, courteous and my request(s) were fulfilled on a timely basis.

I have been an HDTV/HT hobbyist for nearly a decade and during this time my experience is that Aperion Audio ranks in the upper tier regarding their products & CS versus companies like Pioneer/Panasonic who provide little in the way of post sales customer support.

Hey Skeeter,

Lucky you! Wish I could have won a pair.

I currently have a set up with 6Bs and the 5C and it blends very, very nicely. I use a the Marantz 6003.

That being said, I am in a smaller room now and am moving too a much bigger room very soon, so I an contemplating using my year upgrade to go to a 6c also.

So I'm not sure if my situation helps you, but if you are doing no critical listening/movie watching, 5c does not sound "small" or out of place at all. I think many users here use 6Ts matched with a 5C.

Side note: Why such high stands??? I feel as if your asking for an accident!

Cool, thanks for the input! My main system is a set of AV123 Mini's/X-Voce/ELT525's with dual MFW-15's all off an Onkyo 805 and that's where all the fun times happen This living room setup is strictly for casual watching and occasional movies if the kids are downstairs playing Wii. I think the 5C would probably be good enough but with such a fantastic center downstairs its hard to not want "the best"

Oh, the stands came with the speakers. They are very nice and very heavy, no stability issues at all. The height is a tad too high, but not too bad. I may try to get some shorter ones soon but that's, again, another expense.

Anyone else have some more good input on my situation? I may just try to drive down to Aperion and check them out myself ...

You should feel fortunate that you are in driving distance of Aperion. And since that is the case, I think you should just drive down and check them out!

I'm kinda within driving distance. I'm in the Seattle area so it's still a 3 hour drive for me. We'll see, I may just pick one up sight ... uh ... unheard

With that much music in the mix, I ask: Is the plan to just listen to music in two-channel on the 5T's? Or in full surround? If the latter, I'd suggest 5B's as your surrounds.

Another question. You don't want to mount on-wall, but do want to have a stand in the middle of the floor between the seating and the stairs? That doesn't seem like it would pass the WAF.

I have 4B's on i31 stands with the extension, and while they look funny being that high, they sound great and fit into the Dolby/THX guidelines for where to place your surrounds better than before. That could be another option for you, though I'd be nervous about those wobbly stands in the middle of the room in your case. I'm about to close on a condo and will have the same problem, so those i31's are going to have to go in my case. Can't risk getting them knocked over.

Hmmm, that is indeed a tough space you have there. If it were me I might try and wall mount a speaker between the two windows to your right and then either wall mount the left or place it on one of those step type shelves. Whichever will get the speaker to roughly the same height as the right and either directly to your side or slightly behind you.

I don't know that stands are going to work very well for you, as the i31s do get pretty unstable once you raise them to their full 46" height. I do know of some 42 inch stands that you could use, but they are pretty big. You would also have to use rubber feet on the bottom of the speakers to make sure that the woofer clears the back of the couch. Here they are:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RAXERSS42

I myself wouldn't put a stand that big in a traffic area, but hey if you can talk the wife into it then maybe it could work.

Hope that helps!


Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it.


All of our speakers are timbre matched so you can use either the 5C or 6C with the 6Bs. If you don't use it that often and you won't be sitting further than 10-12 feet from it, I'd go with the 5C.

I just recently grabbed a VSX-21TXH and I should be receiving it in a couple of days. I'm looking for a descent set of speakers that won't break the bank, but I don't want shady quality either. I've looked at Aperion Audio 5T's for the front and the 5C center, some Klipsch WF-34's, and I might be able to get some descent deals on Monitor Audio RX6's or maybe some outgoing RS6's. Any suggestions? I'm only starting off with a 3.1 setup since I can't afford to go 5.1 or 7.1 just yet. Bad choices? Good choices? Any affordable alternatives? I have a workable listening area and I tend to listen to quite a bit of a mix. Plenty of SACD and DVD-A, Blu Ray movies and gaming as well. Hence why I was looking into some floorstanding models. I know Klipsch are pretty easy to drive due to their sensitivity, and I may be able to get descent deals on Klipsch or Monitor Audio. If not, I was considering Aperion since they are pretty affordable and seem to be highly reviewed. I'm open to all ideas and suggestions though.

Thanks Roger That and Jason for the suggestions.

When I say 40% music, I mean 40% 2-channel most likely.

You know, after I submitted that post, I thought, why DON'T I try and wall mount. I could mount the right speaker to the wall directly behind the window and about 6 feet up which would put it right behind the couch.

The left side is another issue. The only place where it would be directly in line with the speaker on the right would be on the staircase wall which is to far away. I could put it on that lower step shelf as Jason suggested but then it would about 4-5 feet closer to the TV and forward of my listening position and the right speaker.

I should have mentioned that my plan was not to leave the stand(s) out all the time. I would just bring them out when neededI have two kids and two dogs. :-)

What if I went with the 4BPsone wall mounted and one a (sturdy) stand? The right speaker would be on a wall, like its designed to be. The left speaker would on a stand in the walkway between the couch and staircase, when needed. Would there be a noticeable difference in surround effects with this setup or could the Onkyo 876 adjust for that?

Or should I just go with two stands and two 4Bs or 5Bs?

Of course my other option would be to just move. You see, the WAF affect is there in all situations. Its just a matter of degree. In my case...

Moving = negative WAF
Leaving speaker stands out all the time = negative WAF
Leaving speaker stands out only when needed = neutral WAF
Mounting speakers on the wall = neutral WAF
No surround speakers = positive WAF

I'm going for neutral WAF as no surround speakers at all is definitely not an option.

How about placing one 4BP in the corner of the top (the very top, not IN it) of the shelf on the left side: the one with the 4 picture frames on it. On the right, mount the right one ABOVE the window treatments in line with where the left one is.

That looks to be about the same height, and it looks to horizontally line up with a viewer on the sectional. On surrounds, having them above the listening position is actually better, per Dolby and THX recommendations. From practical experience, I totally agree.

Thoughts? Trying to keep you from having to move stands. That's a pain and can be awful for imaging.

For me that's tough. If it were me i'd go 4B's on stands. Slightly behind listening position, angled slight towards sweet spot. You could hide one by that tree and you'd have 1 on the left side of the couch. When your done with the left one you could slide it back behind the tree as well.

Wall mounting would be kind of messy in there. If you cieleing wasn't so dang high i'd recommend in-ceilings, but of course you've gotta have one of those fancy cathedrals in there.

definately stay away from the BP's, there is no ideal mounting scenarios in that room for those! And you don't use BP's on stands, they should be wall mounted so they radiate and reflect the sound waves.

Can you really fit a 5c in that entertainment stand?

You could start HAF (Husband Acceptance Factor). Start by informing the other half no more vegetation on top of the TV or even in the whole house, and no more pictures of her mother staring at you from the walls.

But you must be prepared to wear the same underwear you have on now for the rest of your life, and how do you feel about eating cold beans right out of the can?

Just an idea.