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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 176

post #5251 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
Hello there,

The amount of overall output between the 533-VAC and the Forte Center will be about the same and I even think in terms of dialogue clarity they will be pretty similar too. But the Forte will be a better timbre match with the Grand Towers and personally I think the Verus tweeter provides for a more natural/smoother high frequency response. So those would be the upgrades in my opinion. On the other hand I don't think the 533-VAC will sound horrible or even bad with the VGTs, so if the ultimate plan is to go to the VGC I might just wait so you can save money on paying shipping for a trade up outside the 30 day trial.

Yes 125 watts from the Outlaw should be plenty of power to drive them well, we are using a Marantz 8003 in our sound room which is only 15 watts/channel more and I've heard them with a Marantz SR7005 AVR at 120 watts/channel in a medium sized room and they still sounded nice and detailed.

We use an Oppo 83 here with the VGTs and have been really happy with it.

I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions, thanks!
Thanks Jason,

I just did an on-line with some of your guys to order...looks like the grand towers can't ship to APO address. What a bummer. I move to the states in a little over a year. It's now get the forte's or wait???? Or, can you do International FedEX to Okinawa JP!!!
post #5252 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

Thanks Jason,

I just did an on-line with some of your guys to order...looks like the grand towers can't ship to APO address. What a bummer. I move to the states in a little over a year. It's now get the forte's or wait???? Or, can you do International FedEX to Okinawa JP!!!

Just a follow-up thanks for the help! Another reason why I'm back buying Aperion. - Looks, performance, and customer service top notch!
post #5253 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

Just a follow-up thanks for the help! Another reason why I'm back buying Aperion. - Looks, performance, and customer service top notch!

My pleasure, thanks for the order and enjoy!
post #5254 of 6860
if anyone is interested in a 6T, 6C, or 5DB send me a message. color is black.
post #5255 of 6860
Well the USPS/Military Postal System is teasing me...Got one of the Forte towers yesterday...5 days from Portland to Okinawa JP...not bad. Hopefully it's twin brother will arive today in one piece and I can hear these things in stereo!
post #5256 of 6860
Post some pictures and let us know what you think when you get the other one!
post #5257 of 6860
hey guys just got my speakers in today, love them so far.....




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post #5258 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzbc View Post

Post some pictures and let us know what you think when you get the other one!

The twin brother arrived in one piece...the boys are set-up/calibrated. I'll try to get some pics posted tonight or tomorrow. A nice step up from the 532L/R bookshelf's (which I love and now are making fine surrounds in my 5.1)...more to come.
post #5259 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfeva0049 View Post

hey guys just got my speakers in today, love them so far.....




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Love the VGTs/VGC...nice rig.

Just a couple of friendly observations...Not sure if you have the sub hooked up (looks like one in the rear corner), but if you do, you may want to test the sound by moving the sub to the front right corner? Even though the lower freq stuff is non-directional, it may integrate better with the mains. If you have room, you might want to try moving the couches off the walls too (bass pools up in those areas i.e walls/corners). Of course the corner base traps may resolve a good bit of that. Are those DIY?
post #5260 of 6860
My very premature review of the VFTs because I can’t help myself and there’s just not much posted out there yet regarding their sound.

First off, my listening room is 15X20X8, carpeted with lots of soft furniture and odds and ends to diffuse the sound and reduce reflections (with exception of ceiling). I’m powering the vertically challenged “towers” with an Outlaw 970 pre/pro and 7125 amp (125 watts into 8 ohms X 7). Source is an Oppo BDP-95 using pure analog bypass on pre/pro. Yes, I’m an on-line audio retail junkie. Don’t get me wrong, the brick and mortar folks do offer some perks (sound audition/advice/mark-up/instant gratification), but for me, I’d rather show some patience and keep some of my hard earned money in my pocket.

Appearance… If you own Aperion already, you know the deal here. Amazing quality and craftsmanship for speakers costing $490 each. For some perspective, I’m trading out my 4 yr old cherished 532 L/Rs (bookshelf speakers). I purchased the VFTs as a compromise (the VGTs can’t ship to JP) with the back-up plan of trading up in a year if I’m disappointed. Hook up took a whole 5 minutes, left the same 80 Hz analog crossover on 970, set new levels and was ready for some early listening…so I thought.

AQ… All I can say is this is some kind of optical illusion. I really was not ready for the visceral impact that smacked me in the face. These mini-towers brand new were spilling out a wall of sound with depth and texture the bookshelves simply could not possibly replicate.

High Freq... The highly regarded tweeter is the box, cereal and surprise…simply as good as or better than advertised. Highly detailed, crisp, responsive but never harsh.

The mids… To me, this is where my 532s struggled the most (and most other bookshelves for that matter). The voices were recessed in the 532s and didn’t have the punch or clarity I wanted. Well, problem solved. I’m still floored by the amount of sound that is reproduced by these mini-might’s. Patricia Barber’s vocals were focused to a specific single point (thought the MFSL SACD was a MCH with a separate center channel). Her voice was clear and resonated beautifully in the room. I did not expect the level of instrument separation, depth or soundstage. I didn’t want to get up.

Bass… P Barber’s work can be an excellent litmus test to the capabilities of your speakers to produce tight, detailed, deep bass. While this may be the VFTs biggest challenge, it did not disappoint. It will not best the output of the large floor standing speakers, but still produced excellent, satisfying results in my 2,400 cu ft room.

Final “initial” thoughts…Of course above is a very early take on the VFTs, but I really wanted to share my thoughts for those on the fence or concerned about their compact size. Room size will always be a determining factor, but if you are anywhere near my 2,400 cu ft, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised by these speakers. If the VFTs were a boxer, I’d liken them to Manny Pacquiao…number one pound-for-pound boxer. Like Manny, not sure there’s anyone out there in the 30 lb speaker class that can beat the VFTs. Small, compact, but packs a wallop! Hats off to Aperion again. If I get the VGTs, it might just be a separate purchase…not sure I’ll be trading these anytime soon.
post #5261 of 6860
Some shots of the new Forte Towers.
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post #5262 of 6860
Thank you for the review and the pictures. I have been on the fence about the Forte Towers. I really would like to purchase the Grands but my budget has been such that I can't. Your remarks make me think that I would also be happy with the Fortes.
post #5263 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

Love the VGTs/VGC...nice rig.

Just a couple of friendly observations...Not sure if you have the sub hooked up (looks like one in the rear corner), but if you do, you may want to test the sound by moving the sub to the front right corner? Even though the lower freq stuff is non-directional, it may integrate better with the mains. If you have room, you might want to try moving the couches off the walls too (bass pools up in those areas i.e walls/corners). Of course the corner base traps may resolve a good bit of that. Are those DIY?

thanks alot, i was so excited to finally get them in. yes that is a sub in the right rear. its a ed a2-300. i did the whole crawl test thing and it sounded the best in either the back left or right corner, but that was with the sub in its current placement. and because its big and bulky i would rather have it out of sight. i probably could get improved sound from a different placment but im happy so far with its current placement, i can really feel it when the movie calls for it.

yeah those are DIY bass traps, not the greatest looking but im happy with them and with the extra money in my wallet vs buying them.

thanks for the advice and i hope you enjoy your vft. they look good in your place.
post #5264 of 6860
USAFChief,

Thanks for the review and pics...

Just curious... have you found the low tweeter height to be an issue at all?

I think Hicks said it's only about 28" from the floor... which is a little low IMO. I've wondered if this in any way interfered with the ability of the speaker to "disappear" in the room... or made the speakers draw attention to themselves as the source of the sound.
post #5265 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

My very premature review of the VFTs because I can't help myself and there's just not much posted out there yet regarding their sound.

First off, my listening room is 15X20X8, carpeted with lots of soft furniture and odds and ends to diffuse the sound and reduce reflections (with exception of ceiling). I'm powering the vertically challenged towers with an Outlaw 970 pre/pro and 7125 amp (125 watts into 8 ohms X 7). Source is an Oppo BDP-95 using pure analog bypass on pre/pro. Yes, I'm an on-line audio retail junkie. Don't get me wrong, the brick and mortar folks do offer some perks (sound audition/advice/mark-up/instant gratification), but for me, I'd rather show some patience and keep some of my hard earned money in my pocket.

Appearance If you own Aperion already, you know the deal here. Amazing quality and craftsmanship for speakers costing $490 each. For some perspective, I'm trading out my 4 yr old cherished 532 L/Rs (bookshelf speakers). I purchased the VFTs as a compromise (the VGTs can't ship to JP) with the back-up plan of trading up in a year if I'm disappointed. Hook up took a whole 5 minutes, left the same 80 Hz analog crossover on 970, set new levels and was ready for some early listeningso I thought.

AQ All I can say is this is some kind of optical illusion. I really was not ready for the visceral impact that smacked me in the face. These mini-towers brand new were spilling out a wall of sound with depth and texture the bookshelves simply could not possibly replicate.

High Freq... The highly regarded tweeter is the box, cereal and surprisesimply as good as or better than advertised. Highly detailed, crisp, responsive but never harsh.

The mids To me, this is where my 532s struggled the most (and most other bookshelves for that matter). The voices were recessed in the 532s and didn't have the punch or clarity I wanted. Well, problem solved. I'm still floored by the amount of sound that is reproduced by these mini-might's. Patricia Barber's vocals were focused to a specific single point (thought the MFSL SACD was a MCH with a separate center channel). Her voice was clear and resonated beautifully in the room. I did not expect the level of instrument separation, depth or soundstage. I didn't want to get up.

Bass P Barber's work can be an excellent litmus test to the capabilities of your speakers to produce tight, detailed, deep bass. While this may be the VFTs biggest challenge, it did not disappoint. It will not best the output of the large floor standing speakers, but still produced excellent, satisfying results in my 2,400 cu ft room.

Final initial thoughtsOf course above is a very early take on the VFTs, but I really wanted to share my thoughts for those on the fence or concerned about their compact size. Room size will always be a determining factor, but if you are anywhere near my 2,400 cu ft, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by these speakers. If the VFTs were a boxer, I'd liken them to Manny Pacquiaonumber one pound-for-pound boxer. Like Manny, not sure there's anyone out there in the 30 lb speaker class that can beat the VFTs. Small, compact, but packs a wallop! Hats off to Aperion again. If I get the VGTs, it might just be a separate purchasenot sure I'll be trading these anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfeva0049 View Post

hey guys just got my speakers in today, love them so far.....




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Cool thanks for the posts and pics guys!
post #5266 of 6860
One more week until my VG set is supposed to ship (ordered 5/24)...you guys aren't making the wait any easier ;-)
post #5267 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

USAFChief,

Thanks for the review and pics...

Just curious... have you found the low tweeter height to be an issue at all?

I think Hicks said it's only about 28" from the floor... which is a little low IMO. I've wondered if this in any way interfered with the ability of the speaker to "disappear" in the room... or made the speakers draw attention to themselves as the source of the sound.

My sweet spot/hole in the couch is right at 10 ft from both towers which are spaced a little over 9 ft apart. I've moved my listening height and can't hear any difference in the highs.*

* I'm 50 yrs young, so my hearing around 15K may be diminished.

I think the speaker array may cause the speaker to be more sensitive to improper set-up ...i.e. you sit too close so the highs don't have time to disperse. If you set them up right, not an issue as far as I'm concerned. When I play at low volume (background), the speakers do become more apparent, but still maintain a good amount of detail. Proper amplification plays a part in that as well so mileage may differ.

Hicks can correct me here but I read in a review the tweeters (same as the VGT) are engineered not only to play at lower freqs (1.8K), but also disperse the highs more than the average bear due to construction. I don't think Aperion engineers would overlook that design layout if it was a problem...they make a living on their reputation. It does beg the question though.
post #5268 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfeva0049 View Post

thanks alot, i was so excited to finally get them in. yes that is a sub in the right rear. its a ed a2-300. i did the whole crawl test thing and it sounded the best in either the back left or right corner, but that was with the sub in its current placement. and because its big and bulky i would rather have it out of sight. i probably could get improved sound from a different placment but im happy so far with its current placement, i can really feel it when the movie calls for it.

yeah those are DIY bass traps, not the greatest looking but im happy with them and with the extra money in my wallet vs buying them.

thanks for the advice and i hope you enjoy your vft. they look good in your place.

The VGTs would of looked better! ...unless you asked my wife
post #5269 of 6860
^^
Nice setup--very similar to mine with the VGTs--almost the same TV stand too. Thanks for providing such great feedback--Aperion does indeed make a fine product.

I should sign mine--(Retired) USAFChief.
post #5270 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

My sweet spot/hole in the couch is right at 10 ft from both towers which are spaced a little over 9 ft apart. I've moved my listening height and can't hear any difference in the highs.*

* I'm 50 yrs young, so my hearing around 15K may be diminished.

I think the speaker array may cause the speaker to be more sensitive to improper set-up ...i.e. you sit too close so the highs don't have time to disperse. If you set them up right, not an issue as far as I'm concerned. When I play at low volume (background), the speakers do become more apparent, but still maintain a good amount of detail. Proper amplification plays a part in that as well so mileage may differ.

Hicks can correct me here but I read in a review the tweeters (same as the VGT) are engineered not only to play at lower freqs (1.8K), but also disperse the highs more than the average bear due to construction. I don't think Aperion engineers would overlook that design layout if it was a problem...they make a living on their reputation. It does beg the question though.

Indeed, our speaker engineer does a great job of making sure that our speakers perform optimally.

On that note, I figured he could answer this question a bit better than myself, so here is what he had to say:

Quote:


The VFTs were designed to work best with the tweet a little below ear level:

• The crossover zone between tweet & mid is designed to have the best frequency summing (least phase interference loss) aimed upwards so that it sums well from on the tweet axis to +25 degrees vertically.
• The tweet itself has almost no loss up to 20 degrees off axis and works very well up to 30 degrees off axis
post #5271 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post

^^
Nice setup--very similar to mine with the VGTs--almost the same TV stand too. Thanks for providing such great feedback--Aperion does indeed make a fine product.

I should sign mine--(Retired) USAFChief.

We're true Bobs...Band of Brothers! Thanks for serving.

I'm a 2P000 by trade (PMEL/Test Equipment Calibration)...I love this stuff.
post #5272 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

We're true Bobs...Band of Brothers! Thanks for serving.

I'm a 2P000 by trade (PMEL/Test Equipment Calibration)...I love this stuff.

Career 3A0 but thankfully they let me play with computers the last 10 years of my career--retired in 2001 with 30. PMEL sounds like a lot of fun Was a fun ride for me--enjoy yours!
post #5273 of 6860
Anyone have more info on the Summit Wireless systems? I believe they are up for pre-order, but anyone 'professionally' tested this yet?

Thanks!!
post #5274 of 6860
Do you guys tow in your speakers at all? If so how much?
post #5275 of 6860
^^

My VGTs are toed in and they seem to be perfect as far as imaging. This picture gives a pretty good idea of how much toe I have on my setup.


LL
post #5276 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

Do you guys tow in your speakers at all? If so how much?

Mine are 15 to 20 deg...not sure how neccessary. The tweeters in the verus line perform well off axis. I "think" I hear slightly more high-freq detail with the tow-in, but it's splitting hairs with my set-up.
post #5277 of 6860
Not to split hairs, but wouldn't it be to "toe in"? Not to "tow in"? Tow in is what I do when my car breaks down and I need to take it in to the garage. I tow it in.
post #5278 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzbc View Post

Not to split hairs, but wouldn't it be to "toe in"? Not to "tow in"? Tow in is what I do when my car breaks down and I need to take it in to the garage. I tow it in.

Yeah--toe in is the proper description. Funny though that tow and toe can both be automotive terms.
post #5279 of 6860
First off I am happy to see all of the new Forte and VGT owners enjoying their equipment

I have owned or auditioned the full line-up, from the 4T's on up. I purchased the VGT's and VGC in the first order group when they were released last year. In my setup I have not toed in the speakers, no matter which speaker I was using or auditioning. I think the issue of toe in depends on room acoustics and listening position, more than the default that you automatically toe them in.

It all comes down to what sounds good to you, be it the equipment you use or how you set it up..it your ear that you are pleasing. Yes, there are some established setup guidelines, in the end the tweaking is based on what sounds best to you.

Enjoy, you all have some killer equipment...welcome to the Aperion family.
post #5280 of 6860
Where are the 6Ts?

I just went to the Aperion website and there is no entry for 6 series speakers anymore? No 6T and no 6C? What gives? Have they been discontinued?
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