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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 178

post #5311 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

Anyone own the Verus speakers? I am wondering about the treble and midrange. Would you consider them forward, bright or laid back? I am very sensitive to brightness (often get a headache listening to bright speakers). I'm curious as to how they sound.

Anyone done an AB comparision to other brands?

Thanks.

I've not done any AB vs other brands, but the new verus line treble is improved over the Aperion Intimus class...brightness turned down a notch.

Of course what is neutral/bright/dark to one is not to another. Depends on your benchmark/what you're accoustomed to.

Here's some outakes from some published reviews ...most I tend to agree with. They will reward when paired with good componants. I can listen for hours with zero fatigue/headaches.

Forte Towers:
1. Clean, articulate Highs, Transparent, warm midrange
2. The Verus Forte towers' high frequency response is distinguished, detailed and sounds just slightly forward in the mix... articulate, punctuated attack that we'd describe as clear and transparent. Though the high frequencies were just a bit forward in the mix, they were always realistic and well controlled with plenty of air around instruments, particularly stringed instrumentation. At extremely high volumes, the highs maintained their integrity and avoided becoming shrill or harsh.
3. The speaker's mid-range response ran a close second to the treble region for our favorite sonic aspect of this speaker. Perhaps it is due to the low crossover point between the tweeter and midrange driver, but we felt the midrange region shared the clear, transparent attributes of the speaker's highs whilst also producing plenty of body and richness... the midrange region seemed most affected by the different equipment we used. the vocals took center stage and came across with warmth and a close presence. The Verus Forte doesn't have the big round sound of a speaker twice its size with big 6.5 drivers but, listening to our test cuts, we never felt like we missed anything. The sonic character of the Forte tower is remarkably big for a speaker of any size, let alone one as small as this.
4. The soundstage and imaging properties of the speakers are both pleasing. The Forte towers have the sort of pinpoint center imaging that will get you out of your chair to see if the center channel is on when it shouldn't be. Even when not toed in the speakers had a way of placing vocals in the very center of the room. The soundstage exhibited a fair amount of depth, but the sound didn't seem to stretch out beyond the edge of the speakers as much as we'd expected. Still, every inch between them was filled out with some portion of our recording's presentation. This pair of speakers didn't really disappear into the room- they do call some attention to themselves, but in an engaging sort of check me out fashion that hits your ears with lots of nuances and texture.

Grand Towers:
1. The speakers seemed to caress the room with sound. They sounded smoothly balanced and tonally full, though falling just short of being downright laid-back. Thank goodness. They sounded effortless, and tracks such as Krall's cover of The Boy from Ipanema were silky yet clear in the midrange. Here the Aperion reproduced the natural warmth of Krall's voice, with enough detail and texture in the midrange to make it sound realistic and, again, with a good underpinning of bass that gave me a hint of the acoustic space in which her performance was captured.
2. At the top of the audioband, Aperion's Axially Stabilized Radiator tweeter produced detail and extension that could hang with some pricier speakers that I've heard, particularly those from the likes of Dynaudio and EgglestonWorks. Although the Aperions didn't produced the amount of air that I could hear from the diamond tweeter in the B&W 803 Diamond, or the beryllium unit from Scan-Speak that PBN Audio uses in their Montana Sammy ($30,000/pair), the differences weren't so great as to hit me over the head. In fact, I had to do some quick A/B comparisons before I could conclude, to my satisfaction, that the B&W's tweeter was producing more detailed highs at all.
3. Aperion's tweeter is cut from the same cloth as the Dynaudio tweeters I've heard through the years, in that it produced the meat of the highs really nicely, as well as most of the ultra-high frequencies. It just seemed balanced more to toward the mid-treble than the upper treble. The good thing was that it didn't sound bleached or thin. I never tired of listening to the Verus Grands, even in exceptionally long listening sessions.
4. Speaking of the midrange, the vocals were sublime, though a touch relaxed, possessing a sound indicative of tubes at times. The midrange as a whole was clearly the Verus' strong suit for it sounded natural in its scale, weight and detail, though it seemed a touch overpronounced in comparison to the Verus' top end performance. The Verus' high frequency response was smooth, non fatiguing and largely grain free, though it lacked that last ounce of weight and extension beyond the front baffles creating a somewhat laid back presentation overall, which bodes well for a wide range of musical tastes, especially those which may encompass low resolution audio files or downloads.
5. Dido's vocals sat within the Verus' butter zone in terms of its relationship between the speaker's midrange and high frequency performance, possessing beautiful warmth and weight accentuated by surprising air and extension that made every verse feel intimate and nuanced.

The Aperion site has links to the full articles.
post #5312 of 6860
I've never heard the intimus speakers referred to as bright before. I've heard neutral, but not bright. They are definitely not fatiguing at all. Maybe the Verus line is the new neutral?
post #5313 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

It will be nice to see some measurements on the Forte towers.

Did you pick a pair up from Zetec? ...BTW, the forte towers integrate well with a sub and will surprise you with their ability to produce tight and accurate bass by themselves (if properly amplified). I cross mine over at 80 hz and regularly listen at 85-95 db spl C and I'm still saying wow. A lot of accurate sound, with great attack and decay for their size and they stay composed at ref levels ...at that point I'm giving in before the speakers do. A lot of bang for your buck, and even more for a slightly used set!

Who knows Hicks may even honor a trade up for the Grands!

Hah, I actually thought you bought them from Zetec...

I messaged him about them, but held off since my budget is tight right now. Bummer too, since it's a killer deal at his selling price, and if I could swing it, I'd buy them.
post #5314 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I've never heard the intimus speakers referred to as bright before. I've heard neutral, but not bright. They are definitely not fatiguing at all. Maybe the Verus line is the new neutral?

I've seen some call them forward, or bright, occasionally... Not as much as with the previous Intimus line though... But the measurements do show the treble is shelved up a few dB, so it's no surprise if they have a forward presentation to some.

Forward doesn't always equal fatiguing... and in my experience with the 6C, I didn't find it fatiguing... I actually think it's a really good sounding center...

I haven't owned/heard any of the others in the Intimus line, and without listening to them as L/R with music that I'm familiar with, it'd be hard to say if they sound neutral or bright to me.... My plans to chase after a pair of 5T's to go with the used 6C I bought fell through... so I'm selling the 6C and likely won't do any auditioning of the rest of the Intimus line...

But, the Verus line has my interest... At some point, I'm pretty sure I'll try the VGB or VFT...
post #5315 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I've never heard the intimus speakers referred to as bright before. I've heard neutral, but not bright. They are definitely not fatiguing at all. Maybe the Verus line is the new neutral?

My use of "brightness" was only in the context of Intimus vs. Verus. My 532s (Intimus) is not what I would call a bright speaker; but compaired to my verus forte towers, the 532s are brighter.
post #5316 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Hah, I actually thought you bought them from Zetec...

I messaged him about them, but held off since my budget is tight right now. Bummer too, since it's a killer deal at his selling price, and if I could swing it, I'd buy them.

I pinged him but never got a response...ended up going with the new ones with full warranty/trade-up option.
post #5317 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

Anyone own the Verus speakers? I am wondering about the treble and midrange. Would you consider them forward, bright or laid back? I am very sensitive to brightness (often get a headache listening to bright speakers). I'm curious as to how they sound.

Anyone done an AB comparision to other brands?

Thanks.

I have the Verus Grand Towers standing next to the Onix Reference 3s and the Dali Helicon 800s. I promised over at the Emotiva forums I'd do a written comparison. I'll summarize it that the VGTs stood their own, excel in very loud, very long listening sessions, have some of the most articulately detailed vocals I think I've ever heard, and are an incredible value, IMO. I would call them a bit laid back, but fully extended, extremely nice sounding speakers. The overall winner was the 800s, but that's quite a step up in price. The 800s deliver a presence that the other two couldn't achieve. I'm not sure how I would rate 2nd/3rd yet, I need my brother to come back over and do another A/B listening session, and then I think I could finalize some conclusions.
post #5318 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBauman View Post

I have the Verus Grand Towers standing next to the Onix Reference 3s and the Dali Helicon 800s. I promised over at the Emotiva forums I'd do a written comparison. I'll summarize it that the VGTs stood their own, excel in very loud, very long listening sessions, have some of the most articulately detailed vocals I think I've ever heard, and are an incredible value, IMO. I would call them a bit laid back, but fully extended, extremely nice sounding speakers. The overall winner was the 800s, but that's quite a step up in price. The 800s deliver a presence that the other two couldn't achieve. I'm not sure how I would rate 2nd/3rd yet, I need my brother to come back over and do another A/B listening session, and then I think I could finalize some conclusions.

Cool, thanks for posting, I've heard the Onix Ref 3s before and thought they were quite good too.
post #5319 of 6860
Hicks,

I know you wont be able to say with complete certainty, but can you give me an idea of how rushed I should be to buy a 5C before the finish changes? Last part of my set and I would like them all to match.

Thanks!
post #5320 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by calincole View Post

Hicks,

I know you wont be able to say with complete certainty, but can you give me an idea of how rushed I should be to buy a 5C before the finish changes? Last part of my set and I would like them all to match.

Thanks!

I would recommend placing your order by the end of July if you can.

I think that we will be out of 5Cs some time in August, thanks!
post #5321 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Cool, thanks for posting, I've heard the Onix Ref 3s before and thought they were quite good too.

Jason, it appears you work for Aperion, is that correct? I think you guys have a showroom in Tualatin. I wouldn't mind swinging by and saying hi some time. I have 3 different systems set up in different cities, but the above mentioned speaker shootout is taking place in Beaverton.
post #5322 of 6860
I just wanted to provide an update on the integration of the VFTs with my 533 VAC. Considering the importance of timbre matching speakers, especially with the front sound stage I was hesitant about not upgrading to the VFC. But after talking to Jason and based on the fact both speakers were Aperion, 3-way designs, and the size of the cabinet/drivers/freq responses were similar, I wanted to see how it worked first before shelling out some more $$$s.

For me the pairing was not unnatural at all. This may be oversimplifying it a little, but the differences would be similar to turning up the treble (not level) 2-3 db on the center channel. The 533 VAC is slightly more aggressive in the high end, but the slight timbre differences were not distracting to me. You really have to have a "certain" source material playing, be focused, and specifically listening for it. For my ears, this difference was slightly noticeable when the same voice was played through the drivers of all three front speakers. Just slightly brighter/emphasized in the center...emphasis on "slightly" and that's with me right in front of each speaker. At a distance of 10 ft, panning during movies, and music tracks where each channel is unique was challenging for my ears to pick up on anything close to a mismatch, and I was listening for it. I don't think anybody unknowingly listening would ever notice.

For those with the 533 VAC or the 5C already, I'd recommend the "wait and see" approach first. If you are very sensitive and want things just so, you may want the peace of mind that comes with the more "perfect" VFC match. For me this pairing still works.
post #5323 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

I just wanted to provide an update on the integration of the VFTs with my 533 VAC. Considering the importance of timbre matching speakers, especially with the front sound stage I was hesitant about not upgrading to the VFC. But after talking to Jason and based on the fact both speakers were Aperion, 3-way designs, and the size of the cabinet/drivers/freq responses were similar, I wanted to see how it worked first before shelling out some more $$$s.

For me the pairing was not unnatural at all. This may be oversimplifying it a little, but the differences would be similar to turning up the treble (not level) 2-3 db on the center channel. The 533 VAC is slightly more aggressive in the high end, but the slight timbre differences were not distracting to me. You really have to have a "certain" source material playing, be focused, and specifically listening for it. For my ears, this difference was slightly noticeable when the same voice was played through the drivers of all three front speakers. Just slightly brighter/emphasized in the center...emphasis on "slightly" and that's with me right in front of each speaker. At a distance of 10 ft, panning during movies, and music tracks where each channel is unique was challenging for my ears to pick up on anything close to a mismatch, and I was listening for it. I don't think anybody unknowingly listening would ever notice.

For those with the 533 VAC or the 5C already, I'd recommend the "wait and see" approach first. If you are very sensitive and want things just so, you may want the peace of mind that comes with the more "perfect" VFC match. For me this pairing still works.

Thanks for the review... and good to know the timbre of the Intimus and Verus may not be all that far off.

Of course, I know this is very subjective... so others may have a different finding... But nonetheless, it warrants giving it a shot first.
post #5324 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

I just wanted to provide an update on the integration of the VFTs with my 533 VAC. Considering the importance of timbre matching speakers, especially with the front sound stage I was hesitant about not upgrading to the VFC. But after talking to Jason and based on the fact both speakers were Aperion, 3-way designs, and the size of the cabinet/drivers/freq responses were similar, I wanted to see how it worked first before shelling out some more $$$s.

For me the pairing was not unnatural at all. This may be oversimplifying it a little, but the differences would be similar to turning up the treble (not level) 2-3 db on the center channel. The 533 VAC is slightly more aggressive in the high end, but the slight timbre differences were not distracting to me. You really have to have a "certain" source material playing, be focused, and specifically listening for it. For my ears, this difference was slightly noticeable when the same voice was played through the drivers of all three front speakers. Just slightly brighter/emphasized in the center...emphasis on "slightly" and that's with me right in front of each speaker. At a distance of 10 ft, panning during movies, and music tracks where each channel is unique was challenging for my ears to pick up on anything close to a mismatch, and I was listening for it. I don't think anybody unknowingly listening would ever notice.

For those with the 533 VAC or the 5C already, I'd recommend the "wait and see" approach first. If you are very sensitive and want things just so, you may want the peace of mind that comes with the more "perfect" VFC match. For me this pairing still works.

Yeah I agree, I've used the VFTs with a 634-VAC and didn't think the difference in sound was distracting at all.

But on the other hand they weren't specifically designed to go together or intentionally timbre/voice matched either, so I feel like I have to be honest about that when people ask.
post #5325 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

But on the other hand they weren't specifically designed to go together or intentionally timbre/voice matched either, so I feel like I have to be honest about that when people ask.

Jason, I have to say you guys are straight-up and I appreciate the fact you don't come up with a line to simply push speakers out the door...very much appreciate the candor.

Even though they aren't designed to work together, they do share a lot of the same design philosophies/engineering and come from the same tribe. They have similar blood lines and that helps keep them in the same timbre zip code.

On that matter, not much talk on the Verus line crossovers. Do they share similar HD-X3 crossover technology as the Intimus line?
post #5326 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

Jason, I have to say you guys are straight-up and I appreciate the fact you don't come up with a line to simply push speakers out the door...very much appreciate the candor.

Even though they aren't designed to work together, they do share a lot of the same design philosophies/engineering and come from the same tribe. They have similar blood lines and that helps keep them in the same timbre zip code.

On that matter, not much talk on the Verus line crossovers. Do they share similar HD-X3 crossover technology as the Intimus line?

Indeed it's good to know that we have overarching sonic philosophy and even though we didn't consciously do it, there is a common Aperion sound between our different lines and generations of speakers.

No, we stopped using HD-X3 for our new Intimus speakers that came out in 2008. If I remember correctly the way they wasn't really any advantage in terms of performance to use the HD-X3 technology for those speakers, which holds true of the Verus speakers as well.
post #5327 of 6860
I wanted to post about how impressed I Am with both the 4T and the Marantz 5005 receiver.

I was powering the 4T's with a Denon 1910. I tried listening in pure direct mode before but found the sound a little lacking without the sub.

I bought the Marantz because I knew it was more powerful but mainly for the 3D ability and pre outs, but I'm really impressed with the sound! The 4T's sound very strong in pure direct mode through the Marantz. The pair could easily make a nice 2 channel setup for a small room. I'm shocked at the bass output these little guys have with this receiver pushing them.

Now for those of you that know more than me, what could explain this? The Denon was rated at 90 wpc. The Marantz at 100 wpc. Is it just the quality of the power is better on the Marantz? Is it a difference in design?

I just thought it would be good to post this since Aperion is a Marantz dealer as well.
post #5328 of 6860
I have an Aperion setup for my home theater (5T towers, 5C center, surrounds, plus a Velodyne sub). I also have a 2 channel setup in a different room with a NAD amp that I use for music (iPod + Wadia) which I need speakers for.
My idea would be to move the 5T towers for music and buy the Verus Grand bookshelf to replace them in the HT setup. I like the idea of smaller monitors on a stand for HT, plus I could use the bi-amp capability. Would the Verus play nice with the Intimus center? Or should I forget the Verus and go to the 5B?
post #5329 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by renpar61
I have an Aperion setup for my home theater (5T towers, 5C center, surrounds, plus a Velodyne sub). I also have a 2 channel setup in a different room with a NAD amp that I use for music (iPod + Wadia) which I need speakers for.
My idea would be to move the 5T towers for music and buy the Verus Grand bookshelf to replace them in the HT setup. I like the idea of smaller monitors on a stand for HT, plus I could use the bi-amp capability. Would the Verus play nice with the Intimus center? Or should I forget the Verus and go to the 5B?
I would just put two 5B's in there. the 5B is really good with HT.
post #5330 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
Hah, I actually thought you bought them from Zetec...

I messaged him about them, but held off since my budget is tight right now. Bummer too, since it's a killer deal at his selling price, and if I could swing it, I'd buy them.
I was the lucky one that picked up those speakers....I live pretty close to him... I originally wanted the 5t towers but in the step I have they were too tall....but the VFT's are just right....since I am a local guy I was able to pick up the one B stock VFC they had .... Now I have a set of 4T's (which I really liked) and a 533VAC sitting around without a home. Haven't had a lot of time to listen to the new set up...but have been impressed so far from what I've heard.

Ray
post #5331 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray906 View Post

I was the lucky one that picked up those speakers....I live pretty close to him... I originally wanted the 5t towers but in the step I have they were too tall....but the VFT's are just right....since I am a local guy I was able to pick up the one B stock VFC they had .... Now I have a set of 4T's (which I really liked) and a 533VAC sitting around without a home. Haven't had a lot of time to listen to the new set up...but have been impressed so far from what I've heard.

Ray

Hmmm... I might be interested in those 4T's...
post #5332 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I wanted to post about how impressed I Am with both the 4T and the Marantz 5005 receiver.

I was powering the 4T's with a Denon 1910. I tried listening in pure direct mode before but found the sound a little lacking without the sub.

I bought the Marantz because I knew it was more powerful but mainly for the 3D ability and pre outs, but I'm really impressed with the sound! The 4T's sound very strong in pure direct mode through the Marantz. The pair could easily make a nice 2 channel setup for a small room. I'm shocked at the bass output these little guys have with this receiver pushing them.

Now for those of you that know more than me, what could explain this? The Denon was rated at 90 wpc. The Marantz at 100 wpc. Is it just the quality of the power is better on the Marantz? Is it a difference in design?

I just thought it would be good to post this since Aperion is a Marantz dealer as well.

This is totally speculation on my part as I've never compared the guts of these receivers, but I think the better circuitry and components in the box like the power supply and transformer give the Marantz a more detailed sound as well as a smoother top end.

What I can say with certainty is that when we replaced an Onkyo 876 with a Marantz SR7005 in our sound room I heard a marked improvement in those areas, which was especially surprising considering that the Onkyo is rated at 140 watts/channel and the Marantz is 120 wpc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by renpar61 View Post

I have an Aperion setup for my home theater (5T towers, 5C center, surrounds, plus a Velodyne sub). I also have a 2 channel setup in a different room with a NAD amp that I use for music (iPod + Wadia) which I need speakers for.
My idea would be to move the 5T towers for music and buy the Verus Grand bookshelf to replace them in the HT setup. I like the idea of smaller monitors on a stand for HT, plus I could use the bi-amp capability. Would the Verus play nice with the Intimus center? Or should I forget the Verus and go to the 5B?

I'd probably go 5B just because for mostly movies you probably wouldn't hear a big difference between the two.

But USAFChief's comments on this page regarding using Verus speakers with an Intimus center might be of interest to you.
post #5333 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

...and I'll speculate at the risk of being completely wrong in my assumptions...

I don't doubt you're right, that Aperion is aware of the role the aesthetics of their speakers has played in sales...

But they're a business that needs to make money... and they've already dropped cherry/gloss black from the subs in favor of satin black to offset rising costs, and instead of raising prices. So it's not way out of left field to think that might end up being the case for the Intimus speakers as well.

Again, just speculation... and I could be wrong... but it's fun to guess...

Interesting survey on Aperion's Facebook page regarding this exact subject. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...io/13061186817
post #5334 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

Interesting survey on Aperion's Facebook page regarding this exact subject. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...io/13061186817

I'd be pysched if Aperion offered walnut or rosewood, as long as they were real wood veneer.
post #5335 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

I'd be pysched if Aperion offered walnut or rosewood, as long as they were real wood veneer.

The trouble with wood grain is most consumers gennerally are looking for a good match with the other furniture they own. For me the darker wood tones would "match" my stuff better than the cherry and if offered I would have been very tempted to go in that direction. The great thing about black is it will stand the test of time and will almost always match everything!
post #5336 of 6860
Thx Jason. Just read the review -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/te...view.html?_r=1

Umm..boy, should I give this a try? :-) Or maybe wait for more reviews. Anyone here give this a ear?
post #5337 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I would just put two 5B's in there. the 5B is really good with HT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

your speaking of the 5DB.

Yes, sorry. Scratch that.
post #5338 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrummer View Post

I thought Aperion was dropping the 5B's too, but I could be wrong of course.

I really like mine. We were watching a movie this past weekend and I realized I had left them in bipole mode.

I switched them to dipole, and while the difference is subtle, for HT, dipole gives a more diffuse/immersive surround.

Great versatility with the 5B.

your speaking of the 5DB.
post #5339 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAusio80 View Post

Thx Jason. Just read the review -
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/te...view.html?_r=1

Umm..boy, should I give this a try? :-) Or maybe wait for more reviews. Anyone here give this a ear?

Besides reviewers the only people that have heard the Summit System are the few people that have dropped by Aperion HQ since I set up a demo system here a couple weeks ago.

However a new review from Wired magazine hits newsstands today, the review is on page 47 if you want to check it out.
post #5340 of 6860
Not sure if this has already been posted... but HomeTheaterReview.com reviewed the Verus Grand Bookshelf and Verus Forte Bookshelf... and had good things to say about both, especially the VGB.

http://hometheaterreview.com/aperion...aker-reviewed/

http://hometheaterreview.com/aperion...aker-reviewed/
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