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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 179

post #5341 of 6860
Hey guys, posted this in the Aperion forums but figured I'd get a quicker reply here.

I noticed they started selling Marantz gear at Aperion and got curious. Read some interesting reviews about Marantz' flagship SR7005 receiver in Home Theater Magazine. Also heard good things about the "affordably priced" AV7005 and MM7055 amp. Thing is I can't find any info yet about how the two setups compare as far as sound quality goes. I suppose I should assume that getting the separates is superior in sonic quality b/c you're paying about 1k more but has anyone here (or even Aperion employees) actually compared the two on the Verus Grands speaker line? Looking at the specs you only get about 15 watts more with the separate amp compared to the SR. That can't really be enough extra power to make a significant difference can it? As far as I've read the AV7005 and SR7005 have the same electrical components. Can the fact that the AV and MM are separates really be worth the $1000 difference over the SR7005? Is it a big leap in sound quality?

Sorry for the newb question
post #5342 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Not sure if this has already been posted... but HomeTheaterReview.com reviewed the Verus Grand Bookshelf and Verus Forte Bookshelf... and had good things to say about both, especially the VGB.

http://hometheaterreview.com/aperion...aker-reviewed/

http://hometheaterreview.com/aperion...aker-reviewed/

I didn't know that those had dropped yet, so thanks for posting!
post #5343 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhaver View Post

Hey guys, posted this in the Aperion forums but figured I'd get a quicker reply here.

I noticed they started selling Marantz gear at Aperion and got curious. Read some interesting reviews about Marantz' flagship SR7005 receiver in Home Theater Magazine. Also heard good things about the "affordably priced" AV7005 and MM7055 amp. Thing is I can't find any info yet about how the two setups compare as far as sound quality goes. I suppose I should assume that getting the separates is superior in sonic quality b/c you're paying about 1k more but has anyone here (or even Aperion employees) actually compared the two on the Verus Grands speaker line? Looking at the specs you only get about 15 watts more with the separate amp compared to the SR. That can't really be enough extra power to make a significant difference can it? As far as I've read the AV7005 and SR7005 have the same electrical components. Can the fact that the AV and MM are separates really be worth the $1000 difference over the SR7005? Is it a big leap in sound quality?

Sorry for the newb question

It's a 20 watt/channel difference between the two, but you are right that alone won't make a big difference. The real advantage to having separates is that when you have a power amp all of that power goes to the speakers and it isn't used for things like video/sound processing and controls since the pre-amp takes care of all that. Think about it this way, you've got two workers that both work 40 hours a week. One of them is just a cook, the other is a cook and a waiter. Which worker do you think is going to prepare the best food? Even though they both have the same amount of time, one of them has to divide it up and the other doesn't.

So with separates you should get more detail, a fuller sound and better dynamics, even if you are comparing a power amp that has the same power rating as an AVR.

I've heard the Verus Grand Towers powered by both the SR7005 and a MM7055, but never on the same day so I haven't done any type of direct comparison.

Is it worth the $1000? That's a subjective call, for some yes for others probably not. I can confidently say that you would get better performance, and I would even say noticeably better performance, with the separates set up.

I hope that helps!
post #5344 of 6860
After almost two months of waiting due to a backorder (ordered 5/24), my Aperion speakers were finally delivered yesterday...beautiful gloss back Verus Grand towers, Grand bookshelves, and the Verus Forte center (Grand center was just too big), combined with a Paradigm DSP sub that I've had since last year. The design and finish of these speakers looks incredible, but that's absolutely nothing compared to their sound. After getting everything set up and adjusted last night, I've just gotten my first chance to really give them a workout this evening and they're very impressive so far. I'm not an audiophile by any means, but I do know that my music sounds better than ever no matter what style I've tried...rock, pop, jazz, classical, broadway...it all sounds fantastic. I'll be popping in a movie soon to give that a shot, but I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed. I knew that these speakers were going to be a huge step up from my previous setup, but words can't really describe the difference...just awesome so far

I think my only disappoint was not getting an SPL meter with my set after hearing that it was thrown in for a lot of other people...nothing too expensive to pick up on my own, but it's something I still need to track down to finalize my setup...
post #5345 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by disarm78 View Post

I think my only disappoint was not getting an SPL meter with my set after hearing that it was thrown in for a lot of other people...nothing too expensive to pick up on my own, but it's something I still need to track down to finalize my setup...

Let's see if Jason takes the bait...wait for it...wait for it...
post #5346 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhaver View Post

Hey guys, posted this in the Aperion forums but figured I'd get a quicker reply here.

I noticed they started selling Marantz gear at Aperion and got curious. Read some interesting reviews about Marantz' flagship SR7005 receiver in Home Theater Magazine. Also heard good things about the "affordably priced" AV7005 and MM7055 amp. Thing is I can't find any info yet about how the two setups compare as far as sound quality goes. I suppose I should assume that getting the separates is superior in sonic quality b/c you're paying about 1k more but has anyone here (or even Aperion employees) actually compared the two on the Verus Grands speaker line? Looking at the specs you only get about 15 watts more with the separate amp compared to the SR. That can't really be enough extra power to make a significant difference can it? As far as I've read the AV7005 and SR7005 have the same electrical components. Can the fact that the AV and MM are separates really be worth the $1000 difference over the SR7005? Is it a big leap in sound quality?

Sorry for the newb question

I have the sr5005 and just got my Emotiva XPA-3 amp yesterday. Definitely a big difference with my 6T's and my 5C. More dynamic. More muscle is the best way I can explain it. More detail.

The 5005 did a decent job crossed over with my sub but now I can run the 6T's in pure direct and get a nice full dynamic sound.

If you can go separates, I would suggest it.
post #5347 of 6860
Anyone heard the VGT/VGC combination with Yamaha 6xx-8xx series receivers (any receiver)?--looking to upgrade HT 60%movies/40% audio but don't have the Benjamins for a new Marantz. . .
post #5348 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoyne View Post

Anyone heard the VGT/VGC combination with Yamaha 6xx-8xx series receivers (any receiver)?--looking to upgrade HT 60%movies/40% audio but don't have the Benjamins for a new Marantz. . .

There quite a few Aperion owners with Yamaha receivers. I used to have a Denon and they sounded great with it as well.
post #5349 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoyne View Post

Anyone heard the VGT/VGC combination with Yamaha 6xx-8xx series receivers (any receiver)?--looking to upgrade HT 60%movies/40% audio but don't have the Benjamins for a new Marantz. . .

Last years Marantz models are selling at reduced prices on Amazon right now (SR6005 and SR5005). Similar in price to the Yamaha's. I liked the feature set and price of the SR5005 over the newer models SR5006 and SR6006.
post #5350 of 6860
Thanks Hicks and brian6751 for the advice.

I think my final budget will end up making the decision for me but if I can swing it I'll probably go the separates route.
post #5351 of 6860
Just received my VGT/VGC . Will be driving them with denon 3311 & emotiva xpa-3 combo

Haven't hooked them up yet, but excellent packaging & finish - thanks Jason
post #5352 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcmlutz View Post


Last years Marantz models are selling at reduced prices on Amazon right now (SR6005 and SR5005). Similar in price to the Yamaha's. I liked the feature set and price of the SR5005 over the newer models SR5006 and SR6006.

Also the sr5006 (sr5005 replacement) does NOT have pre outs. Get em while they last.
post #5353 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post


Also the sr5006 (sr5005 replacement) does NOT have pre outs. Get em while they last.

Actually only for the fronts and the sub. That is my main reason that the SR5005 is more attractive to me than the SR5006.
post #5354 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by disarm78 View Post

After almost two months of waiting due to a backorder (ordered 5/24), my Aperion speakers were finally delivered yesterday...beautiful gloss back Verus Grand towers, Grand bookshelves, and the Verus Forte center (Grand center was just too big), combined with a Paradigm DSP sub that I've had since last year. The design and finish of these speakers looks incredible, but that's absolutely nothing compared to their sound. After getting everything set up and adjusted last night, I've just gotten my first chance to really give them a workout this evening and they're very impressive so far. I'm not an audiophile by any means, but I do know that my music sounds better than ever no matter what style I've tried...rock, pop, jazz, classical, broadway...it all sounds fantastic. I'll be popping in a movie soon to give that a shot, but I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed. I knew that these speakers were going to be a huge step up from my previous setup, but words can't really describe the difference...just awesome so far

I think my only disappoint was not getting an SPL meter with my set after hearing that it was thrown in for a lot of other people...nothing too expensive to pick up on my own, but it's something I still need to track down to finalize my setup...

Awesome, glad to hear you are enjoying them and thanks for posting!

Technically we only give out the SPL meters for fre with full 5.1 systems (Paradigm sub? grrrrrr!!!!! ) But if you want one just give us a call or shoot an e-mail to customerservice@aperionaudio.com and I will be happy to give you one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoyne View Post

Anyone heard the VGT/VGC combination with Yamaha 6xx-8xx series receivers (any receiver)?--looking to upgrade HT 60%movies/40% audio but don't have the Benjamins for a new Marantz. . .

I am not a huge fan of the Yamaha 600 or 800 series receivers for our speakers myself and I've heard that they tend to make our speakers a bit bright on a few occasions, especially the 600 series receivers.

I recommend the similarly priced receivers from Denon and Onkyo over them, but that's just my personal opinion.
post #5355 of 6860
The above mentioned Home Theater Review of the Verus Grand Bookshelves contains an error. At the end of the review, it compares the Verus bookshelves to Paradigm Studio 20s, saying the Paradigms are "a bit more at $789 a pair."

Actually, it is the Studio 10's that are listed at $798, while the Studio 20s are listed at $1198. Even if you barter down the price somewhat, the Studio 20s are more than "a bit more" in price.
post #5356 of 6860
Questions on Verus setup:

1. What's the recommended toe-in , directly to LP, or slight toe-in?
2. I can run audessey now, but is it preferable to run audessey ( or other Eq softwares) again after 40 hours of break-in?
3. I guess I'll have to try & find what sounds best, but what is the most commonly used x-over points? 60,80? How about the center channel?
post #5357 of 6860
Thanks Jason. BTW, shot off email to support @ aperion late Friday evening with diagram of my basement HT area and more specefic questions you may be able to answer re size (VGT vs VFT, etc) --appreciate your looking for it.

I know you bundle the Marantz--do you in general like the Marantz personally over the Onkyo or Denon? (6005 good buy right now)
post #5358 of 6860
I fully apologize for the length of this post, but please bear with me.

So I received a pair of VGTs and a VGC last week. First, I want to say that the finish and build quality are excellent. I cannot believe the sound - I turn up my AVR much higher than with my old Pioneer 3-ways and the sound is clean and clear with no distortion or listener fatigue (although my two Jack Russells may disagree - I do not think they are into dubstep). The VGC has been nothing short of incredible (upgraded from an Athena AS-C1). I have not done any major fine-tuning outside of using an SPL and getting the correct speaker distances input in the AVR.

My current setup is the VGTs, the VGC as center, two Athena AS-B1s as left and right surrounds, and an Hsu STF-2 for a sub all run by an Onkyo TX-NR901. My system is in my family room which measures 13' wide by 14' long open on the left to the kitchen. Fronts and center listening distance is 11'. Due to the room setup, the sub is in the right rear corner with my seating up against the back wall of the room.

I do have a few questions for the group and appreciate any comments.

1. I had done a lot of research before buying the Aperions (although more reading than auditioning) and the no-risk 30-day trial certainly helped out my decision. I was re-reading some of the reviews, especially the one by Andrew Robinson at Hometheaterreview.com. Robinson's review is glowing, but he makes multiple comments on how the VGTs sound significantly better if you have the right components. Is my NR901 good enough? How much benefit would, say, an Emotiva XPA-3 give me (for the front LCR obviously)? Are there other options not requiring thousands of dollars of additional investment (I am most likely going to upgrade the AS-B1 surrounds to Versus di-pole speakers when they arrive in August)?

2. There is one comment to the article by Robinson (by Nuthed and quoted exactly): It sounds to me that for all the hype and praise heaped on ID loudspeakers these days, particualary Aperion, they don't measure up to the established brands for overall value. IOWs it appears that for overall SQ, they should cost substantiall less than they do. When the big players in loudspeakers chose to offer affordable, higher end models, the ID doesn't compare. Way to go Paradigm, Def Tec and others. Keep it up.

Like I said, I have done quite a bit of research and I am not seeing support for what this guy says. Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, the VGTs are in the cream of the crop for price vs. performance/build quality compared with everything on the market right now, with the sound quality being compared by reviewers, both pro and consumer, to speakers significantly more expensive. I have not found an obvious speaker with appropriately associated reviews and praise that is an example of what the commenter believes exists.

3. One of the other pro reviews mentions that, during testing, the reviewer noticed a 4 ohm dip. I am still learning all the technical aspects of speaker testing and measurement. I currently have my Onkyo set at the 6 ohm setting because that is what the speakers are - should I switch it to the 4 ohm setting?

4. I attached a picture of my VGC above my TV on a shelf I constructed (I am unable to have it below the TV). I want to angle the speaker to it is pointing directly at the listener and the included rubber speaker lifts do not work. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what I can put in front of the speaker (which wants to slide forward the higher I lift the rear of the speaker) near the front edge of the shelf to stop the VGC from sliding off the shelf, looks good, and will not damage or interfere with the speaker? The best I have come up with so far would be four or so clear rubber furniture bumpers screwed in near the front edge of the shelf up against which the lower edge of the speaker would rest.

5. I have the LFE crossover on the Onkyo set at 80 and the STF-2 at its highest setting of 90. My wife says the overall bass from the VGTs is a little heavy for regular TV (HGTV, the news, etc). I obviously want to keep the bass high for action shows and movies. What is the best way to maybe tone down the bass from the VGTs but keep the bass going to the sub? The Onkyo's next crossover setting is 100 so wouldn't that leave a gap between the AVR and the sub since 90 is the max setting?

6. Speaking of the sub - although Hsu qualifies the STF-2 as a medium-room sub, any thoughts on a worthwhile upgrade, if one is even advised?

Thanks for your patience and comments.
LL
post #5359 of 6860
fcastle

Welcome to the Aperion family, I have had my VGT's and C since first release last year. I would not put too much into the reviews you have read. There are a number of reasons a review can be critical, among them, where they get their advertising dollars, failure to accept you can have a value priced speaker hang with or beat the higher priced mainline speakers. What matters most is if you are happy with your purchase. I personally feel you could spend a lot more and get a lot less in terms of performance, finish and value in comparison to the VG's.

As for what is the best solution for driving them, that is area where opinions are as strong as those on who has the best speaker. There are those who feel a good receiver will deliver as well as using separates. I personally drive my VG's with a receiver and am very happy with the sound in all listening modes. Again it comes down to what sounds good to you and the size of your budget.

On crossover I use 80. You may want to set your sub to 80 and see if that balances out the bass. Crossover is again one of those subjective areas. Some crossover at 60, others 80 and so on. 80 is the THX standard. Additionally some receivers will let you set crossover separate for different channels. I would start at 80 and go from there.
post #5360 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymalya View Post
Questions on Verus setup:

1. What's the recommended toe-in , directly to LP, or slight toe-in?
2. I can run audessey now, but is it preferable to run audessey ( or other Eq softwares) again after 40 hours of break-in?
3. I guess I'll have to try & find what sounds best, but what is the most commonly used x-over points? 60,80? How about the center channel?
Toe in is subjective, I personally have never used toe in. Room acoustics are more an issue than toe in. Try it both ways and go with what sounds best to you. Some swear by it..others don't.

I would run the audessey now, then recheck after a few weeks of using your speakers.
post #5361 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post
4. I attached a picture of my VGC above my TV on a shelf I constructed (I am unable to have it below the TV). I want to angle the speaker to it is pointing directly at the listener ...
In my experience, the cabinets to either side of your center speaker could be interfering with it's performance. I would want it an inch or two forward of those cabinets, or remove the cabinets all together.

I don't see how you can get good balance from your surround system if you jack up the sub to exaggerate explosions, and car chases. I'd just calibrate for a natural sound throughout the entire frequency range, or get someone like UMR to calibrate both audio and video. We have a room that's similar to yours, and he did wonders with the audio. There's plenty of growl and boom in action movies, while voices and music are outstanding.
post #5362 of 6860
I see a few new owners of VGT and I am really interested in your opinions. What would be helpfully especially for me are:

What speaker did you upgrade from?
How do they compare to your previous speaker(s)?
How much auditioning did you do (and what speakers) before jumping on VGT and what swayed you?

In essence, I am looking for good and close comparables for VGT.

I am quite impressed with the looks, build quality and what I really liked about the Verus series is the metal grille. I have little kids and like that protection from little pokey fingers. I currently have Infinity Beta 40 and it also has metal grille and sounds decent. But I am yearning for that next level of upgrade and hoping it will significant enough considering the price jump.

I know the best way to compare is to take them up on the 30 day risk free audition, but your opinions matters as well; I will eventually do this.

Sorry for the long post, and I appreciate your input .

Thanks all!
post #5363 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Awesome, glad to hear you are enjoying them and thanks for posting!

Technically we only give out the SPL meters for fre with full 5.1 systems (Paradigm sub? grrrrrr!!!!! ) But if you want one just give us a call or shoot an e-mail to customerservice@aperionaudio.com and I will be happy to give you one.

Thanks for the SPL meter offer...wasn't really fishing for one here, but I do appreciate the gesture. I stopped by my local Radio Shack the next day and found they were selling their analog meters on clearance for only $15, so I picked one up and it seemed to work well enough. Unfortunately, I've been out of town all weekend and haven't gotten to enjoy my system much more yet.

Sorry about the Paradigm sub, but it's one that I picked up a couple years ago when my previous sub died, and it's still good enough not to need replacement. I don't think I had even heard of Aperion at the time I bought it. You should take some comfort in knowing that I backed out of buying a full set of Paradigm speakers from the same dealer in favor of Aperion though
post #5364 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In my experience, the cabinets to either side of your center speaker could be interfering with it's performance. I would want it an inch or two forward of those cabinets, or remove the cabinets all together.

I don't see how you can get good balance from your surround system if you jack up the sub to exaggerate explosions, and car chases. I'd just calibrate for a natural sound throughout the entire frequency range, or get someone like UMR to calibrate both audio and video. We have a room that's similar to yours, and he did wonders with the audio. There's plenty of growl and boom in action movies, while voices and music are outstanding.

Considering the cabinets just went in (wife), they are, needless to say, not coming down.... I would have a better chance of possibly re-mounting the shelf so the front is slightly forward of the cabinets.

Thanks for the calibration suggestion - UMR's company does not have locations in Washington, however.

BESLC - thanks for the comments! I am definitely not complaining about the sound from the VGTs and VGC, I, as I am sure many, am always wondering - could it be better? So many people in these forums seem to have amps, thus the thought that there must be a reason.
post #5365 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

Thanks for the calibration suggestion - UMR's company does not have locations in Washington, however.

He is the company.

I don't know if he does tours to Washington, but there are probably calibrators who also do audio that do come to Washington. You can also get advice on how to do it yourself here, and in the audio forum. There's probably a lot of advice in the owner's thread for your AVR.

As for the cabinets, just avoid moving your speaker back when you find a tilting solution. Moving them forward would be a bonus. Our 6C is tilted up with two solid rubber black door stops.
post #5366 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

He is the company.

I don't know if he does tours to Washington, but there are probably calibrators who also do audio that do come to Washington. You can also get advice on how to do it yourself here, and in the audio forum. There's probably a lot of advice in the owner's thread for your AVR.

As for the cabinets, just avoid moving your speaker back when you find a tilting solution. Moving them forward would be a bonus. Our 6C is tilted up with two solid rubber black door stops.

Wow - his website is pretty professional then! It does not indicate that WA is in his current lineup for reservations.

I do not mind doing calibration myself - despite years of having more knowledge than the average Joe, I have not read enough to get to the next level. I would like to be able to set up a system to use the REW software talked about in these forums and start making corrections myself.

I definitely want the VGC as far forward as possible - I just need something up in front of it because the curved design of the VGCs cabinet and the shelf surface (melamine) make the speaker want to slide forward. I might try some of that kitchen drawer non-skid material.
post #5367 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post


... I am sure many, am always wondering - could it be better? So many people in these forums seem to have amps, thus the thought that there must be a reason.

It can ALWAYS sound better. No matter what you buy.
post #5368 of 6860
Anyone else have an issue with their AVR setting the crossover really high for the 5C when running Audyssey? My Denon 891 sets it to 150Hz following Audyssey's measurements... and I know it doesn't roll off that high.

I've demo'd quite a few speakers in there as a center in the same placement - Energy RC-LCR, NHT Absolute Zero, NHT TwoC, Aperion 6C, Cambridge Audio S30, Mirage OMD-C1, Mirage OMD-5... and I haven't run into this issue with any of them.

I just recently bought the 891... but it gave expected results with the Energy RC-LCR, so I don't think it's some error with the AVR.

The only thing I can think - based on the measurements in the Ultimate AV Mag review - is that the shelved up upper mids/treble relative to the bass make it appear to Audyssey as thought the -3dB point is around the 120-150Hz make.
post #5369 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymalya View Post

Questions on Verus setup:

1. What's the recommended toe-in , directly to LP, or slight toe-in?
2. I can run audessey now, but is it preferable to run audessey ( or other Eq softwares) again after 40 hours of break-in?
3. I guess I'll have to try & find what sounds best, but what is the most commonly used x-over points? 60,80? How about the center channel?

1. If your distance from the screen is about 75% of the distance between the front speakers no toe in should be necessary. If the fronts are spaced further apart then that's when toeing them in will help.

2. It shouldn't make a huge difference, but there's certainly no harm in running Audyssey now and then again after they are broken in.

3. Most common is 80 Hz for everything, but if you want to get a little more bass out of the fronts and center you can try 60 too.

I hope that helps!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoyne View Post

Thanks Jason. BTW, shot off email to support @ aperion late Friday evening with diagram of my basement HT area and more specefic questions you may be able to answer re size (VGT vs VFT, etc) --appreciate your looking for it.

I know you bundle the Marantz--do you in general like the Marantz personally over the Onkyo or Denon? (6005 good buy right now)

I recommmend all three, but I do think you get a little better detail and smoother top end with Marantz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disarm78 View Post

Thanks for the SPL meter offer...wasn't really fishing for one here, but I do appreciate the gesture. I stopped by my local Radio Shack the next day and found they were selling their analog meters on clearance for only $15, so I picked one up and it seemed to work well enough. Unfortunately, I've been out of town all weekend and haven't gotten to enjoy my system much more yet.

Sorry about the Paradigm sub, but it's one that I picked up a couple years ago when my previous sub died, and it's still good enough not to need replacement. I don't think I had even heard of Aperion at the time I bought it. You should take some comfort in knowing that I backed out of buying a full set of Paradigm speakers from the same dealer in favor of Aperion though

Ha, yeah if it ain't broke don't fix it is what I say, no reason to toss out a perfectly good sub.

Cool, the Radio Shack meter is fairly similar to ours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Anyone else have an issue with their AVR setting the crossover really high for the 5C when running Audyssey? My Denon 891 sets it to 150Hz following Audyssey's measurements... and I know it doesn't roll off that high.

I've demo'd quite a few speakers in there as a center in the same placement - Energy RC-LCR, NHT Absolute Zero, NHT TwoC, Aperion 6C, Cambridge Audio S30, Mirage OMD-C1, Mirage OMD-5... and I haven't run into this issue with any of them.

I just recently bought the 891... but it gave expected results with the Energy RC-LCR, so I don't think it's some error with the AVR.

The only thing I can think - based on the measurements in the Ultimate AV Mag review - is that the shelved up upper mids/treble relative to the bass make it appear to Audyssey as thought the -3dB point is around the 120-150Hz make.

I've seen it happen before with the 5C and Denons, there's a little dip around 150 that makes Audyssey think it's rolling off. So yeah there's nothing really wrong, just go in there and change the crossover back to 80 Hz.
post #5370 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by fcastle View Post

I fully apologize for the length of this post, but please bear with me.

So I received a pair of VGTs and a VGC last week. First, I want to say that the finish and build quality are excellent. I cannot believe the sound - I turn up my AVR much higher than with my old Pioneer 3-ways and the sound is clean and clear with no distortion or listener fatigue (although my two Jack Russells may disagree - I do not think they are into dubstep). The VGC has been nothing short of incredible (upgraded from an Athena AS-C1). I have not done any major fine-tuning outside of using an SPL and getting the correct speaker distances input in the AVR.

My current setup is the VGTs, the VGC as center, two Athena AS-B1s as left and right surrounds, and an Hsu STF-2 for a sub all run by an Onkyo TX-NR901. My system is in my family room which measures 13' wide by 14' long open on the left to the kitchen. Fronts and center listening distance is 11'. Due to the room setup, the sub is in the right rear corner with my seating up against the back wall of the room.

I do have a few questions for the group and appreciate any comments.

1. I had done a lot of research before buying the Aperions (although more reading than auditioning) and the no-risk 30-day trial certainly helped out my decision. I was re-reading some of the reviews, especially the one by Andrew Robinson at Hometheaterreview.com. Robinson's review is glowing, but he makes multiple comments on how the VGTs sound significantly better if you have the right components. Is my NR901 good enough? How much benefit would, say, an Emotiva XPA-3 give me (for the front LCR obviously)? Are there other options not requiring thousands of dollars of additional investment (I am most likely going to upgrade the AS-B1 surrounds to Versus di-pole speakers when they arrive in August)?

2. There is one comment to the article by Robinson (by Nuthed and quoted exactly): It sounds to me that for all the hype and praise heaped on ID loudspeakers these days, particualary Aperion, they don't measure up to the established brands for overall value. IOWs it appears that for overall SQ, they should cost substantiall less than they do. When the big players in loudspeakers chose to offer affordable, higher end models, the ID doesn't compare. Way to go Paradigm, Def Tec and others. Keep it up.

Like I said, I have done quite a bit of research and I am not seeing support for what this guy says. Am I missing something? As far as I can tell, the VGTs are in the cream of the crop for price vs. performance/build quality compared with everything on the market right now, with the sound quality being compared by reviewers, both pro and consumer, to speakers significantly more expensive. I have not found an obvious speaker with appropriately associated reviews and praise that is an example of what the commenter believes exists.

3. One of the other pro reviews mentions that, during testing, the reviewer noticed a 4 ohm dip. I am still learning all the technical aspects of speaker testing and measurement. I currently have my Onkyo set at the 6 ohm setting because that is what the speakers are - should I switch it to the 4 ohm setting?

4. I attached a picture of my VGC above my TV on a shelf I constructed (I am unable to have it below the TV). I want to angle the speaker to it is pointing directly at the listener and the included rubber speaker lifts do not work. Does anyone have a recommendation as to what I can put in front of the speaker (which wants to slide forward the higher I lift the rear of the speaker) near the front edge of the shelf to stop the VGC from sliding off the shelf, looks good, and will not damage or interfere with the speaker? The best I have come up with so far would be four or so clear rubber furniture bumpers screwed in near the front edge of the shelf up against which the lower edge of the speaker would rest.

5. I have the LFE crossover on the Onkyo set at 80 and the STF-2 at its highest setting of 90. My wife says the overall bass from the VGTs is a little heavy for regular TV (HGTV, the news, etc). I obviously want to keep the bass high for action shows and movies. What is the best way to maybe tone down the bass from the VGTs but keep the bass going to the sub? The Onkyo's next crossover setting is 100 so wouldn't that leave a gap between the AVR and the sub since 90 is the max setting?

6. Speaking of the sub - although Hsu qualifies the STF-2 as a medium-room sub, any thoughts on a worthwhile upgrade, if one is even advised?

Thanks for your patience and comments.

1. Yeah I just don't agree with that assessment, I've heard the VGTs run with an SC-37 and a Marantz SR7005 and thought they sounded great with both, I don't think you need a high end amp that will run you thousands to make them shine, and the fact is that very very few of our customers will run our speakers with amps that cost that much. If you do want to get a power amp the XPA-3 is a great option and very popular amongst our customers.

2. You know what they say about opinions. . .

I wouldn't lose any sleep over one guy saying that, audio is quite subjective after all.

3. It means that for a small region of the speaker's impedance response it does go a little below 4 ohms, which isn't that unusual for a speaker which is nominally rated at 6 ohms since that value represents that average impedance across all frequencies. No I wouldn't set your AVR to 4 ohms as that will limit the power to them.

4. Sure rubber bumpers will work, or you could get something like a couple of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Speake.../dp/B00266HBSU

5. What do you currently have the VGTs crossed over at? If they are crossed over at 80 Hz that should take away most of the low bass from them.

6. Clearly you need a Bravus 12D. But seriously, if you are happy with the HSU then I would just stick with it.

I hope that helps!
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