*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 190

Does anyone have a recommendation on an AVR to run a 7.1 (maybe 7.2) setup with VGTs and VGBs in a 15x12x7 (small, I know) room?

Denon 3312

Hey Dennis,

Why don't you just order a pair and try them out for 30 days...if they don't live up to your standards send them back on Aperion's dime and be out nothing?

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks, exactly what I did here.

Your shipment is now on its way to you via FedEx Ground. While Kelli was carefully hand-packing your shipment, we all sang a song of farewell and blew confetti about the warehouse. Then we packed your speakers on the truck, snapped to a smart salute and sent them on their way.

Your new Aperion Audio speakers have seen much in their travels. Now they're ready to take you on cinematic and audio adventures of your own. Treat them well, love them, and they will last a lifetime.

and if these Aperion Verus Grand Towers, sound as great as the LOOK, they will have found a nice Audio/Video home for them.

What an EXCELLENT Company to DEAL with. Great people.

Regards,
Den

Excellent glad to hear you are enjoying them and that they passed the WAF.

Just let me know if I can help out with anything else!


Wall mounting the Verus Surrounds is the best option as the ideal height for them is about five to six feet off the ground. The i29 is only 29 inches high so that is pretty low for them, I don't really recommend it. I do know of a 42 inch stand that is the next best thing to wall mounting, you can check them out here:

http://www.*******.com/Raxxess/ESS-4...tent=ESS-42MSL

Yeah sorry I don't have any of those graphs available but it sounds like you took the plunge anyway, thanks and I hope you enjoy them!


Hmmm well the Summit system is designed to work without a receiver. You can run HDMI to the transmitter box from the Denon but yes in that configuration you will not be able to use all of the features of the receiver. If you are going to spend that much money on a receiver I have to wonder if maybe you would be better served by a traditional wired set up.


The 3312 is a good recommendation, of course I would love to sell you a Marantz 6006 or 7005 which I think offer a little better sound quality due to better circuitry, but I think you'll be really happy with either. It will be difficult to make a 7.1 system worth it in a room that small though.

I hope that helps!

Denon AVR-3312CI, or one better that I have DENON AVR-4311CI (Made in Japan) and around $1500, but a Big Step up in "Pure Audio Construction" w/ better components, and two more channels (9.2), and can go to 11.2.

If you have the extra $$, I would go with the 4311 if you hang onto your AVR's for years like I do.

Jason Hicks -- I surely wish you would consider publishing more of my requests supporting measured data/plots, as the Verus are to be "TRUE", and transparency is the best medicine, showing there is nothing to hide behind.

I did take the plunge, hopefully not OFF the Cliff.

Please find the time to post all the other there, it would help SALE MORE for you folks also -- if they are VERUS!!





Impedance and Phase.

Cheers,
Den

Congratulations on your purchase! Can we get some pics? I'm very interested to see how the new finish looks on these.

Den,

It's not that I am just too lazy to post the graphs it's that we don't have those graphs.

We could invest in building a true anechoic chamber like the NRC, but it surely would end up being reflected in a higher retail price for our speakers.

That's why you don't see graphs for those specs for practically any of the speakers in our price range and even for those quite a bit above ours. The reality is that those two graphs are sufficient for vast majority of our potential customers, heck there are plenty of speaker manufacturer out there that don't publish any graphs whatsoever.

Jason,

You DO have those GRAPHS, per ED - Mkt. Mgr. who I talked to yesterday, they do exist there, but ED states Aperions Engr. dept. is just to busy w/ other projects to post them at this present time.

I would never use what other speaker Mfg's. do - like NOT Posting their Plots as a reference pt. (as some of those Mfg's. will die on the vine w/ no plots at all) -- if there is Nothing to Hide for the speakers, I would post it all, good or bad. And, if it is bad, I would redesign, then retest, and then post all, since at that pt. in time they will all be GREAT!

Hmmm, well there must have been some miscommunication there because you are correct we have nothing to hide, the graphs in question do not exist!

How about a topic that is near and dear to everyone's heart, saving money!

We are running some deals on the last shipment of high gloss black Intimus product.

$250 off a 5T/5C/4B/8A combo and $150 off a 4T/4C/4B/8A combo until they are gone or the end of the month.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/december2011.aspx

No miscommunication on my end, as I heard very specifically what Ed stated to me, as Ed stated you have them... are you saying Ed misspoke then?

Why would Ed tell me that, and you tell me a different story? Something sounds a little fishy there w/in Aperion then!

Why the confusion w/in Aperion, as there is no confusion on my end!

I will call Ed again, and really get the facts, unless you checked with Ed there, did you?

If Ed misspoke that is fine, but ED did state you have a lot of plots on the VGT's.

I do not mean to be in this pickle, but if you two (Ed and you) both work for Aperion, there should be the same facts coming to your customers and/or potential customers, certainly if there is nothing to hide.

To Hicks,

Yeah unfortunately I need to get a receiver since the Aperion stock set up doesn't have AirShare or anything other features. Can you list features I won't be able to use on the Denon?

Sorry if it's a newb question. I appreciate your help.

VK

The graphs won't change how they sound...simple as boxing them back up and sending them back if you don't like them...no risk/no cliff to fall off. Aperion/Jason were very responsive on my request to post available graphs of the VFTs...my guess is they actually had them to post. Root Cause - Poor communication, not cover-up/conspiracy. Relax and enjoy your great purchase...doubt you'll be sending them back.

Here's the deal, we make some of those measurements in the process of designing the speaker, but we don't necessarily archive it all since the only ones we publish are on axis frequency response and impedance. In order to get those graphs we would have to recreate them and that's what our engineering team doesn't have time for at the moment, and Ed said that's what he told you when you spoke to him.

Personally, I don't know how productive a "he said/he said" type dialogue is, but here is what I can do for you, I know that off axis freq response graphs are readily available and I will get them to you. The rest probably we can generate as well, but it might be a while, we have quite a few projects in process at the moment that are utilizing our resources.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but hopefully you are enjoying the speakers!


I just tried to send an AirPlay signal from a Marantz SR7005 to the Summit box via HDMI and it was a no go. I'm not as familair with AirShare, but I am betting it uses the same protocols and wouldn't work either. The other big feature that comes to mind is that you won't be able to use Audyssey either, since the test tones wouldn't be passed via HDMI.

There will be new versions of the Summit transmitter box in the future and DLNA streaming is definitely a big priority. But if it's something you have to have right now, then going wired is probably your best option.

Jason,

That does clarify it, and do not spend any extra time recreating any plots ... I look forward to getting the Off-Axis specs. Please do send those over to me. Thank you.

Cheers,
Dennis

Can anyone chime in if they are running the Verus Grand Towers and center paired with either an Onkyo 809 or a Yamaha Aventage 1010? I'm on the fence regarding these two receivers looking to how they pair with the Grand Towers. The towers and center will ultimately be powered by an Emotiva XPA-3.

Thanks

Regards,

RTROSE

I have a question for you all... Not sure if this has been answered or not in the previous 200 pages...

But I was planning on the Forte Tower Surround series...
I have read so many good reviews and happy customers, but most importantly haven't listen to them.

Last night I heard some B&W 683s and CM5s and all I have to say is WOW!!!!
Such clarity and neutrality... Wow!!! It totally blew my mind!!!

Now the question is, how do these B&Ws compare to Verus Forte series?
I wasn't really planning on spending $1,500 for two mains...but the B&Ws sounded so amazing!!!

Any insight would be much appreciated...

Hello there, I haven't seen any comparsions to the Verus Forte, but there have been a couple of comparisons with the Verus and B&W CM lines, here's one comparing the Grand Tower and the CM9s as well as the PSB Synchrony 2.


And here's a brief comment comparing the VGTs to the CM series in general:


I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions and if anyone else has done a comparison with the CM series and the Verus line I would love to hear your thoughts too.

Thanks Hicks,

I have another question for you...

I auditioned a set of Definitive Technology speakers (BP-8060ST, CS-8040HD, SR-8040BP) and I was so surprised at their clarity while listening to a Blueray movie...but did not care for their music sound compared to the B&W 683s.

Can you compare your Forte and VGT...?
What would be the differences between the Forte and the VGT?

Hello,

New member to the club here. Thanks to Jason for an expeditious and easy order. I picked up the 5T Hybrid system while it was on sale. The speakers are breaking in as we speak and I'm looking for help from the experts regarding the following:

Receiver is Onkyo-809

1) What is the best way to setup the surround L&R? Furniture does not allow room setup to change so I'm stuck with the right side of the room being completely open. Pictures show front, left, right. My thoughts are to either mount them on the back wall or from the ceiling at a down angle.

2) Any recommendations on sub placement? I have yet to experiment, but wouldn't mind your thoughts since I want to maximize the bass from the 8A. Right now I have to turn it all the way up to get it to my liking.

3) My sub sinks into the carpet a bit. Is this enough clearance. It measures just under an inch.






Thanks in advance. Please share any thoughts or recommendations.

eliasmavs99,

I have a similar situation as you...windows on one side of the couch and openness on the other. I could have mounted one of the side surrounds on the wall but it would not have been in an ideal situation. For the other side, the wall is way to far away. My solution?

These stands work great:

http://www.oneclickmx.com/search.asp...d=VTI+BLE101B+

They should let you get the surrounds to the recommended 2-3 feet above ear height when seated. I have the Aperion Audio 4BPs mounted on them and the combo is quite sturdy.

The only issue is that I need to move the stand that is out into the open back into "storage" next to the one near the wall when not in use--otherwise, it is too close to the walkway/hallway.

See pic below of my room setup.

Lastly, you must run room correction after you place all your speakers. This is important in any room but is especially important with a setup like ours.

Sure so since the VGT is a larger speaker with an extra bass driver it gives you more bass extension, a fuller midrange, wider soundstage and it gives you the ability to fill a larger room. It's also 2 dB more sensitive than the VFT so you get more overall output from it at a given amount of power.

The way I think about it if you are doing a good amount of music or your room is large then moving up to the VFT to the VGT will probably be well worth it. For folks that are doing mostly home theater in medium or small room, say 15X20 or less, then the VFT should do a great job.


In a room like that you really have three options for the surrounds: stands, wall mount to the back wall or ceiling mount. Stands to the sides will give you the best sound, but can be kind of obtrusive. Wall mounting to the back wall should give you better sound than a ceiling mount since you can usually direct the sound toward your listening position a little better. If you do go with that option then I recommend wall mounting them just wider than your couch by a few inches on each side and at a height of four to five feet off the ground.

The placement of the sub now looks good, one thing you might check out is the channel level for it in your receiver, sometimes the auto set up will set it too low. If all the other channel levels are positive and it is in the negative I recommend boosting the sub channel level up to +3-+5 dB.

If that doesn't help you can move it closer to the corner at the left side of the front of the room. The corner walls will reinforce its output, but the danger is that the sub will become boomy and overload the room, so you may have to experiment with just how close to that corner you place it.

That does look a little close to the floor, if it were me I'd get some of those round floor protectors that are made to go under furniture and put the feet on them to keep the spikes from sinking into the carpet as much.

I hope that helps but let me know if either of you still have questions, thanks!

Just wanted to stop in to amend what I had previously reported for the benefit of others who might run into a similar situation. This is what I reported shortly after receiving my 5T's, 5C, and 4BP's a couple of weeks ago. However, I neglected to state that at the time I had the 5C sitting temporarily on my carpeted floor while waiting to make some shelving adjustments for its permanent placement.


After getting the shelving issue straightened out and moving the 5T's just a bit, I re-ran Audyssey on my Denon 1911 which gave settings for the 5T's as full range, 5C at 200hz, and 4BP's at 40hz. It also indicated the 5C's polarity was out of synch. After checking and re-checking that it was wired correctly, I had Audyssey "skip" that warning and proceed. BTW, the 5C is placed at the very front edge of the shelf so there should be no issue with reflections.

Being concerned about the crossover setting on the 5C being so high, I searched this thread and the Audyssey thread on the Amps & Receivers page for a "solution". I noted in this thread that others had reported similar settings with Audyssey and Hicks had stated there is some sort of anomaly near that frequency that Audyssey mis-identifies and adjusts the crossover accordingly.

In the "Audyssey" thread I learned that some speaker manufacturers deliberately reverse the polarity of some speakers or drivers to achieve the desired sound. I am curious if Aperion does this with the 5C and that is the reason for the repeated "reversed polarity" warnings I get from Audyssey on the 5C as well as the higher-than-expected crossover recommendation for the 5C.

In any event, I set all speakers to "small" and raised the crossovers on the 5T's and 4BP's to 80hz and left the 5C at 200hz. They sound great to me, and so far I have noticed no issue with the 5C being crossed so high.

For what it is worth..I have my 5C set at 80 with no issues. I did not get a message saying my 5C was the incorrect polarity when I ran Audyssey. However, I was unhappy with Audyssey, and just turned it off and set my 5B and 5C at 80. From my reading this board, there are some folks that love Audyssey, and some that do not, so I am not telling you to do otherwise, it is just an FYI.
Enjoy your system!!

Yeah, I feel certain the 5C is capable of being crossed at 80hz. That is what really has me puzzled. I do love Audyssey--primarily because of what it was able to do with my other system in the living room which is probably the definition of the setting of an acoustical nightmare. I'd much prefer to use Audyssey and will undoubtedly continue to do so unless I begin noticing problems with the 5C being crossed at 200hz.

Initially, I was trying to figure out if there were something I could change to get Audyssey to cross the 5C lower. Now I'm just more curious about why Audyssey indicates it should be crossed so high when it certainly seems capable of being crossed lower. Thanks for the reply!

There is a little bump in the frequency response around 200 Hz and Audyssey sees the down slope of that bump and thinks the speaker is going to continue to roll off from there, but it doesn't, it flattens out down to about 70 Hz or so.

Personally if it were me I would set the crossover at 80 and 200 and listen to it with both settings and see which you prefer.

Thanks! I was hoping I hadn't mis-stated your previous comments too badly. I had just gone back to the Aperion site and looked at the frequency graphs of the 5C and was more befuddled than before

I'll look at them again and seriously consider your recommendation. However, I'd hate to lose the filters that Audyssey provides.

Edit: I just looked at the frequency graphs again and, even though I'm no expert, I can clearly see what you described. Now I've still got the same decision to make but am better informed.

So, big newb question here. I have been doing a bunch of research on different parts and pieces for a home theater system and I think I have finally decided on what I want to go for.

Based off reviews and being forced to sit and ponder (Hard to make an impulse buy when I'm stuck in Afghanistan) I'm really leaning toward the whole Verus Grand system. Seems like the sound quality from reviews and owners can't be beat for the price and it has a style that I'm sure my wife won't raise an eyebrow to.

The only real question I have at this point is would a Marantz SR6006 do justice to the system? I'm still trying to learn about home theater so figuring out if the power or impedance supplied by the Marantz is enough leaves me a little confused. From what I have read the speakers nominal impedance is 6 ohms and the Marantz is 8...is this fine?

Thanks for answering my rambling question.