*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 194

How can you get away with driving a sub in an apartment!!?? Your neighbors would eventually be knocking on your door...

I would recommend the Verus Grand Bookshelfs... These will provide the ultimate in sound quality.

I got the Verus Grand Towers and I prefer listening to them without the sub...by themselves I think they reproduce the best sound...actually, they sound so great, you swear there is a powered sub in the background!!

If that's the direction you're leaning, you should seriously consider going up to the 2112 for a bit more in cost. In addition to some other minor advantages, it has the MultiEQ XT version of Audyssey rather than the MultiEQ version, and it carries an additional year's warranty. Some in this thread aren't thrilled with Audyssey, but many people swear by it. You'd really notice the difference in Audyssey versions when/if you add a sub. I have two Denons--a 1911 and a 2112 and am quite happy with both.

Please refer to this thread for more information about the current model Denon AVRs. The first few posts detail the differences in models.

I looked at the various reviews against the Aperion Grand Verus 5.1 setup, but wondered if the VGB's were bit on the small side for discrete output from some of the newer BD's (Tron Legacy, Transformers 3) that make use of more output from the surrounds? The VGT VGC seem the right size, but VGB's not sure of, even if you are using a subwoofer and have rears set to small. I seen some that have opted for towers for their surrounds.

The other question is whether you find the VGT stable enough on a wood floor with the small anti-sway base, and whether you use anything that decouples VGT from the floor to improve sound?

John if you can afford to buy the towers to use as surrounds I say go for it. I would love to do that. Unfortunately that was out of my budget. I got the bookshelves for my surrounds, with the thought that I might be able to swing that in future, moving the VGBs to bedroom. I like the bookshelves as surrounds but haven't really pushed them yet (just added them a couple of weeks ago). I'll have more time for movies after we get past Superbowl. My busy time. As far as the stability on wood floors, they seem fine. Of course nobody but me to bump them at my house. I'll give them a swift kick tonight when I get home and report back.

This board and that thread is why I traded in a 1912 for a 2112 within 24 hours of my initial purchase.

I am powering this setup with a Onkyo 607. In terms of upgrade routes, what would you recommend from here? I'm considering a AV upgrade to take advantage of Audyssey MultiEQ. Perhaps the money is better suited elsewhere. My living room is 12x20 if that helps.

John, gave my speakers a push when I got home. They seem pretty stable to me but if I had small children or large dog I might be a little concerned. You can purchase outriggers for them, I know I saw someone mention them a few months ago. Not 100% sure it was in this thread though. Sorry I couldn't be more help with that.

Thanks for your observations.

First off welcome! As for using towers for surround, I use 5T's as surrounds,with VGT's as the fronts. I know a lot of people say a tower is over kill, I on the other hand feel the towers add a more balanced and fuller sound.
The 5T's are a great compliment to the VGT's,mine are the original 5T's in Gloss Black to match the VG's.

On the issue of stability, I have had my VG's since their initial offering. They sit on wood floors, I do not use any isolation or outriggers. I have had no issues in terms of stability or need to decouple from the floor. Most speaker placement ,especially the fronts are not generally in an area where they would pose an issue. Well, unless your kids or animals climb on your Home Theater setup . Seriously, the VGT's are pretty stable, it would take someone pulling them over from the top,which is not very likely, more than bumping into them.

At any rate,the VG's are an incredible speaker..looking forward to hearing your review.

Newbee question: Looking for upgrade from crappy Onkyo theater in a box. Bought an Onkyo 709 reciever and looking for speakers. Was in Best buy to listen to Definitive Technology monitor bookshelf speakers. Had the sales guy go through various speakers. I definitely liked the floor standing definitive technology (8020 and 8040) speakers the best for movies. I'm drawn to Aperion hoping to get more bang for your buck. At first I thought the verus forte would be the best speaker for me, however, what I think I liked best about the definitive technology speakers over others at best buy was that they were "bright" at the high end. For music I think this causes many people "fatigue", but for movies I think it really accentuates everything better. My question is that I believe the Intimus 4 is a "brighter" speaker than the verus forte, and might more resemble the Def Techs. Undoubtedly the Versus forte is a better speaker that is more "neutral", especially with music, but is the Intimus possibly a better speaker for music/tv since it is brighter. Can anyone attest to whether the def techs are considered a "brighter" speaker like the Intimus or more "neutral", such as the Verus forte? I wish I could really AB the two lines, but I can't even listen to either of them.

Sorry I meant "is the Intimus possibly a better speaker "for me" considering it is mostly for "movie/tv".

- Please advise. Or would I be better off upgrading speakers?

I received a PM asking why I went with 6T's for towers. The short answer is that I upgraded from 4T, to 5T, to 6T all for 2 chan music.

Happajay, the best advice I could give you is what I tell most people asking about Aperions. Call and ask the Gurus. They are extremely helpful and should be able to answer all your questions. Also the best way for you to figure out if these give you the desired sound you are looking for is to try them. Aperions 30 day return policy includes shipping both ways. If you are looking to save money by going with the 4t try them first. If they aren't what you desire send them back and get the 5t or Forte. Either way the first thing to do is call the Gurus and ask questions, they're great to deal with and I think you'll be impressed with level of customer service.

Lou, are you looking for other features as well as Audessy? I can't speak to what it does for you as I run Yamaha rx-a3000 with YPAO. If there are other features that your current AVR is lacking I'd say upgrade it. I'm not familiar with 6t as my first Aperions are the VG series. But judging by reviews of other lines I'd think you're speakers should be more than adequate. There are a number of AVRs with great features that are reasonably priced. Do your research and find what you need, then if not immediately needed sit back and keep eyes on Newegg, onecall, or amazon and wait for a good deal. Just make sure to watch thread for line you decide on, that was where I found out about deal on mine (saved over $650).

So I was thinking SVS all the way with their SCS-02 5.0 system paired with a PB13-Ultra. I was a little hesitant pairing this sub with this speaker setup - too much sub?

After doing some research, I came upon Aperion. Looking through their website, I was thinking a pair of Verus Grand Bookshelfs as L/R, Verus Grand Center as C, and 4 Grand Fortes to round out my 7.0 setup. Pair this with a SVS PB13-Ultra for 7.1? With this sub, I want to stay away from towers.

This is a basement setup which is essentially 35x17x7 with the sitting position about 12' from the tv.

Thoughts on this?


Thanks,
dr

I'm assuming your talking about the Verus Forte Bookshelfs (not sure what "Grand Fortes" are) for your surrounds.

Unsure what your listening habbits are, but for primarily movies, I think you could get away with the VGBs/VFBs combo with the great VGC/sub. For a music heavy preference, that's a big room for VGBs as your mains. If the lean was that way, I'd spring for the towers + 2 subs.

Thanks. Im reading up on newer receivers now.

Jason/anyone else - since my 5c is mounted above the tv, should it be mounted upside down?

No. Just tilt it down toward the listening position. I like mine firing JUST a bit above the listening position.

It's tilted already. Thanks.

Thanks for the honesty, Jason, especially since you guys would have made more money if I bought the towers from you. I actually made a typo above. I meant to say that the dipoles wouldn't work aesthetically. So I guess I'll go with the bookshelves...but have to wait until tax refund time.

Audyssey "overrated" some of my home theater speakers. What should I set the crossovers at?

Aperion Audio 5C Center
Rated +/- 3dB 53-20,000
Audyssey recommended 60hz

Aperion Audio 4B Front Heights
Rated +/-3dB 120-20,000 hz
Audyssey recommended 90hz

Aperion 4BP Surrounds
Rated +/-3dB 110-15,000hz
Audyssey recommended 80hz

I've got the Verus Surrounds and I had to set my crossover to 100Hz so they would not distort...

I really wish Aperion had a stronger surround speaker...instead of two 4.25" drivers, why not use the VGB drivers, 5.25"...? My THX setting requires a 80Hz setting all around...but my VGT and VGC can handle the full sound...

Sure you can use the VGTs as surrounds, but in my opinion I don't think you necessarily need a speaker that large in that position. The VGB goes down to 59 Hz at -3 dB which is still a pretty good bass response for a bookshelf style speaker.

I don't think the VGT is that unstable myself, you shouldn't be able to knock it over just by bumping into it. Sure if you have a little one that is determined to intentionally take it down then it will topple but other than that I don't really see it as an issue.


Yes I would say either upgrading the AVR, and a little more power couldn't hurt either, or you might think about upgrading the center if you think you could benefit from more dialogue clarity.


Yes the Intimus tweeter is definitely more aggressive than the Verus tweeter. Def Techs can also be a little on the bright side, although not anything like Klipsch. So if you liked the Def Tech high freq response I would say that the Intimus speakers are closer to that sound than the Verus. When you listen to the 4T, or 5T, for that matter next to the Verus Forte you can definitely hear a bump in the highs. I will say that both the 5T and the VFT will best the 4T in the midrange department, so I think that the 5T/VFT comparison is closer to apples to apples than the 4T. I have definitely had folks go either way when comparing the Fortes and the 5Ts, so to some degree it is a matter of personal preference.


Hmmm pretty big room there for a bookshelf based system, but on the other hand at least you aren't sitting that far away from the screen. I would say if you are doing mostly home theater/TV then you should be OK. If you are doing a good amount of music if you could do towers up front that would be ideal.


I would just do 80 Hz for all of them, but you can certainly lower the 5C crossover to 60 Hz if you want to get a little more bass out of it.


Glad to help!



We went with the 4" drivers because with the 5.25" the speaker was getting pretty big and we also wanted to be able to offer it at the $598/pair price point.

But you should be able to cross them over at 80 Hz without them distorting. Were they doing that with a movie or were you in multichannel mode?

Did you have them set to small?

Thanks for the feedback! Definitely considering an Aperion setup at this point. Very little music will be played through the system - all tv and movie watching. Do you offer pre-configured 5.0 setups? I'm looking for a pair of grand bookshelves, a grand center channel, and a pair of the surrounds dipole/bipoles or do I need to order each piece individually?


Thanks again!
dr

Assuming you have a sub:

Center 80hz
Front heights 90hz
Surrounds 80hz

It's fine to raise the crossover from what Audyssey/your AVR recommends, but you should not lower it as Audyssey has not established any "filters" below the recommended frequency.

Hello

I am considering the Aperion Versus Forte Tower fronts, Versus Forte center and Versus forte Satellites.

I am worried that the fronts wont have enough bass for my liking, I do about 30/30/30 music/movies/games. My room is 13x10 carpeteted with a 9ft ceiling. I can bring the speakers out from the front wall by 1-2 ft. I know I can try them at home, but everything I buy is a hassle in some way, so I am just looking for an opinion now.

If I weren't to go with aperion, I would try out the Energy RC-70, RC-LCR and RC-10 package. I am concerned with the RC package, that while the may have stronger bass, the package might be lacking in the midrange-vocals section.

Also, for my room and use, should I maybe consider the Intimus 5 series instead? Is the main difference between the two sets just the finish?

eta: If it matters, the speakers would be powered by a Pio 94 tsx.

Tom,

Thanks. I have no sub so the 6T's run @ Full. We have old wood floors in these apartments and cheap Sheetrock walls. As a result my 6T's are sitting on 2" very dense foam to help isolate them from the floor. I also have the bass on -2 on my Onkyo 607 and use "dynamic range on light".

I'll give my input, since I own the RC-10/RC-LCR, still own 5C/4T that I'm not using (trying to sell), and demo'd the Verus Forte Center with the 4T's for the 30-day period...

Personally, I'd take the Energy RC-LCR over the 5C or VFC (and the RC-10 over the 4T, if that matters). I cannot speak for the Verus Forte Towers.

I feel the RC-LCR, overall, gives the best dialogue of the 3. At least in my room, it can sound a little thick on the low end at times, although plugging the ports helped for me. Also, the low volume resolution isn't the best I've heard, but I don't feel it's appreciably worse than the 5C, although I think the boosted treble output of the 5C gives the sense that it's clearer at low volumes.

The 5C just never sounded right in my room. To me, the treble wasn't as smooth and was sometimes a little too forward for my liking, compared to the RC-LCR, and I thought it sounded a little "boxier," if that makes sense. Also, both Denon and Marantz AVRs I used it with wanted to set the xover to 120Hz after running Audyssey, which was something I wasn't ok with. I do still think it's a good center at its price point... I just prefer the RC-LCR.

I felt the VFC was smoother/more balanced than the 5C... but thought it also sounded a little small/confined in comparison to the RC-LCR.

All of that said, you could very well prefer either the Verus or Forte over the Energy RC, and completely disagree with my opinions. Best thing you could do is listen to them yourself it at all possible. Maybe try to find someone in the Energy owner's thread that would let you hear their RC speakers.

And since Aperion has a no risk policy, there's really no reason not to audition those in your own home.

If you don't have a sub, then crossover settings in the AVR are moot as there is no sub for the AVR to direct the lower frequencies to. Leave all speakers set to "large" (or however Onkyo terms them) and you're good to go.

So are you saying that 6T's when set to Large (and LFE xover at 80) are not playing frequencies lower than 80hz?