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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 218

post #6511 of 6860
The bookshelves have an excellent soundstage and imaging, but they seem to lack detail and to my ears seem a little shallow in the mid bass range. I like an exciting speaker.
post #6512 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

The bookshelves have an excellent soundstage and imaging, but they seem to lack detail and to my ears seem a little shallow in the mid bass range. I like an exciting speaker.

Have you tried moving them around a bit, small changes can make a big difference in sound. Try toeing them in, moving them out of the corner, make sure they are at ear level, etc. For instance, I get more air out of my 4T's by tilting them back. Speaker sound is hugely effected by it's environment.

Cheers
Edited by dynaudio - 5/7/13 at 1:34pm
post #6513 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

The bookshelves have an excellent soundstage and imaging, but they seem to lack detail and to my ears seem a little shallow in the mid bass range. I like an exciting speaker.

Published frequency response curves are not all that different between the VGBs and VGTs. I don't think they will be that much different. If you look at comments from this thread, the differences seem to be characterized mainly as better bass extension and fuller midrange for the towers.
post #6514 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Hi,
Does anyone have side to side experience with the Grand Bookshelf and the Grand Tower?
I was interested in the Towers but bought the Bookshelves thinking that I'd get a good idea of their sound and that the smaller speakers would be much easier to return if I didn't like them. That was a mistake because now I'm stuck. I think these speakers do some things great but there's a couple of weaknesses to my ears. I really want to like these speakers and get the Towers, they are absolutely the best looking speakers that I have seen. I know that's not supposed to matter but I can't help it, I really like the way these things look. I'm hoping someone is going to chime in and say , yeah.....the Towers do this differently and that differently addressing my perceived faults with the Bookshelves. Any thoughts regarding the differences between these two speakers would sure be appreciated, thanks.

Hello Doug,

First off I would just mention that the speakers have a break in period of 40-50 hours. If you work during the day I would recommend leaving them on while you are out so you can get them broken in a matter of a few days. It won’t be a night and day difference but once they are broken in you should hear more bass extension and a little bit of a more open midrange, including the midbass.

As for the differences between the Verus Grand Towers and Verus Grand Bookshelves, I think the overall sonic character of the two are basically the same, but you just get more of it with the Verus Grand Towers. Specifically, a fuller sound through the mids, more bass, a broader soundstage and more room filling capability.

So I would say if you after you’ve had the VGBs for a couple of weeks and you are pleased with the overall sound quality but feel that they just aren’t producing enough sound for your space or liking then moving to the VGTs should be well worth it. If they just aren’t doing it for you at all, then I would doubt that the VGTs will be much of a remedy.

I hope that helps!
post #6515 of 6860
Thanks for the insight. I'm trying to spend at least an hour or two a night with them.
post #6516 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Obviously goof with the settings but you hit the nail on the head for what I use...

60 towers and 80 surrounds and center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Ray,

Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. If you cross over your sub at 80 Hz and the VGTs at 60 Hz, technically you are creating a peak between 60 and 80 Hz because both speakers are producing those frequencies. If it sounds better to you to cross them over at 60 Hz then I say go for it, but if you want the flattest response between the VGTs and the subwoofer you should cross them over at the same frequency. You could crossover the sub at 60, but at that point you are kind of under utilizing it and another thing to consider is the frequency response from a sub will be stronger between 60 and 80 Hz than the VGTs. Finally crossing the VGTs over at 60 Hz can thin out the midrange since the speaker will have to dedicate power to hitting the lower frequencies.

As for the VGBs if they are over five feet off the ground I would angle them down.

I hope that helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Thanks for the order Ray!

My recommendation is to start with everything crossed over at 80, but if you want to get more bass out of the center and towers you can try 60 Hz too. You shouldn't need to go below 80 for the surrounds.

I hope that helps!
Welcome to the family and enjoy, thanks!

Just an update.
After reading a reply from Kal Rubinson (a very well educated member about audio/video) to another member, I learned that that my PRS886 audio/video processor do not do double bass. If setting the main and center at 60Hz. The bass content will be sent to the main/center from 60 and above to the Towers and the subs will only see below 60Hz.
And the bass content from the surronds will be sent from 80Hz and below to the subs.
So I tried the following.
Main (VGT) 60Hz and above
Center (VGC) 60Hz and above
Side and back surronds (VGB) 80Hz and above
Subs (2 SVS PB13 Ultra) 20 to 80Hz
I realy like the results, to me it sound better.
So if your processor or AVR can have diferent setting, I would strongly sugest to give it a try since the VGT are rated at 45Hz and the center at 50.

Hope this help a few people.

Ray
Edited by darthray - 5/9/13 at 6:40pm
post #6517 of 6860
Ray, that's very interesting. I remember toggling all 5 of my speakers (VGT, VGC, VGB surrounds) between 60Hz and 80Hz, and likings aspects of each. I settled on 80Hz overall -- but I've just changed the VGT and VGC to 60Hz, and the VGB surrounds to 80Hz. Let's see how it goes.
post #6518 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Ray, that's very interesting. I remember toggling all 5 of my speakers (VGT, VGC, VGB surrounds) between 60Hz and 80Hz, and likings aspects of each. I settled on 80Hz overall -- but I've just changed the VGT and VGC to 60Hz, and the VGB surrounds to 80Hz. Let's see how it goes.

Hopefully your Denon can do real different setting like my Onkyo (and it should since you can do different setting for different speakers) smile.gif
And again, different people like different sound(40, 60, 80hz).biggrin.gif

Keep us posted

Ray
Edited by darthray - 5/12/13 at 1:18pm
post #6519 of 6860
Does anyone know when Aperions promo "foundersback" will end?
post #6520 of 6860
May 15th.
post #6521 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Ray, that's very interesting. I remember toggling all 5 of my speakers (VGT, VGC, VGB surrounds) between 60Hz and 80Hz, and likings aspects of each. I settled on 80Hz overall -- but I've just changed the VGT and VGC to 60Hz, and the VGB surrounds to 80Hz. Let's see how it goes.

Yeah my best advice is to do this, try both and see which you prefer, in my opinion there are pros and cons for both 80 for everything or going with a slightly lower crossover like 60 Hz..
Quote:
Originally Posted by swifter53 View Post

May 15th.

That's right, just two more days for the Foundersback promo, get those orders in before it ends!
post #6522 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Ray, that's very interesting. I remember toggling all 5 of my speakers (VGT, VGC, VGB surrounds) between 60Hz and 80Hz, and likings aspects of each. I settled on 80Hz overall -- but I've just changed the VGT and VGC to 60Hz, and the VGB surrounds to 80Hz. Let's see how it goes.

Any thought yet?
smile.gifeek.gifmad.gifrolleyes.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
Just your personel impression.

Ray
post #6523 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Yeah my best advice is to do this, try both and see which you prefer, in my opinion there are pros and cons for both 80 for everything or going with a slightly lower crossover like 60 Hz..
That's right, just two more days for the Foundersback promo, get those orders in before it ends!

Hicks

I do agree with you.
If the receiver, audio/video processor does not properly redirect the chosen frequencies to the subs/speakers, you will have an issue with a a bump in a certain frequencies:eek:.

But if the receiver, audio/video processor can realy send 60 Hz to main and center and the rest below to the sub.
And also send 80Hz and above to the surronds and the rest to the sub.

Would it not make sence to utilize the main and center to the fullest (keeping the front stage the same), especialy if you use power amps for extra power?
Or do you see a benifit at 80Hz even with the extra power that a good power amp provide?

Ray
Edited by darthray - 5/18/13 at 12:12pm
post #6524 of 6860
Hi Yall! Been following this thread for awhile but first time posting. Wanted to ask anyone with the Forte setup and use audyssey, When i first got my setup, Audyssey set my center at 100hz. I figure probably because it hasn't been broken in yet, so i let it break in about 40 hours now. Reran audyssey and its still reading at 100hz when it should be 80hz. Should i just manually set my center at 80hz? Or do you think that will damage my speaker. The specs indicate the frequency response is down to 75hz. Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated.
post #6525 of 6860
80 is just a general standard that THX came up with and most people settle with. Audyssey states you should generally not lower the crossover points from what they set (raising is not an issue). Audyssey set my Intimus 4Ts to 40, so I raised them to 80.

Since the center channel is mostly dialogue I would leave well enough alone at 100. You could probably get away with 80, but I doubt you will even notice a difference.

What did Audyssey set your other speakers at? Where is your center channel located? Is anything blocking it? Have you tried risers? You may be getting bad reflections from your media center.
post #6526 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by vietstylin View Post

Hi Yall! Been following this thread for awhile but first time posting. Wanted to ask anyone with the Forte setup and use audyssey, When i first got my setup, Audyssey set my center at 100hz. I figure probably because it hasn't been broken in yet, so i let it break in about 40 hours now. Reran audyssey and its still reading at 100hz when it should be 80hz. Should i just manually set my center at 80hz? Or do you think that will damage my speaker. The specs indicate the frequency response is down to 75hz. Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated.

That is odd
My audyssey on my Onkyo PRS886 set my entire Verus Grand line at large and I change them to 60Hz for the tower and center and 80Hz for the bookshelf.
And I might change everything back at 80Hz.
Sure the Grand go lower than the Forte line (not enough to warrant a difference of large and 100Hz) but I would think they (Forte) should be fine at 80Hz setting.

Ray
post #6527 of 6860
Audyssey is room specific...based on multiple factors. Many things factor in including room dimensions, furniture, even up to how you utilize your mic, either with a stand, etc...
post #6528 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

Audyssey is room specific...based on multiple factors. Many things factor in including room dimensions, furniture, even up to how you utilize your mic, either with a stand, etc...

You are right.
My room is not that big, only 11ft wide by 18 long and an 8ft ceiling.
I wish I had a proper stand but since I don't, I use a mini tri-pod.

Ray
post #6529 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Hicks

I do agree with you.
If the receiver, audio/video processor does not properly redirect the chosen frequencies to the subs/speakers, you will have an issue with a a bump in a certain frequencies:eek:.

But if the receiver, audio/video processor can realy send 60 Hz to main and center and the rest below to the sub.
And also send 80Hz and above to the surronds and the rest to the sub.

Would it not make sence to utilize the main and center to the fullest (keeping the front stage the same), especialy if you use power amps for extra power?
Or do you see a benifit at 80Hz even with the extra power that a good power amp provide?

Ray

Hmmm not sure I understand, you only get one crossover setting for the sub, how would you get both 60 and below and 80 and below without changing the setting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vietstylin View Post

Hi Yall! Been following this thread for awhile but first time posting. Wanted to ask anyone with the Forte setup and use audyssey, When i first got my setup, Audyssey set my center at 100hz. I figure probably because it hasn't been broken in yet, so i let it break in about 40 hours now. Reran audyssey and its still reading at 100hz when it should be 80hz. Should i just manually set my center at 80hz? Or do you think that will damage my speaker. The specs indicate the frequency response is down to 75hz. Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated.

Personally I would lower it to 80 Hz, it will absolutely not pose any more danger to the speaker than crossing it over at 100 Hz.
post #6530 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

You are right.
My room is not that big, only 11ft wide by 18 long and an 8ft ceiling.
I wish I had a proper stand but since I don't, I use a mini tri-pod.

Ray
How tall is the mini tripod? Are you able to get it at ear level to where you normally sit? Are you stacking something underneath the mini tripod? These could all be factors...in the end Hicks is right, you can cross it over at 80 and not have any issues.
post #6531 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Hmmm not sure I understand, you only get one crossover setting for the sub, how would you get both 60 and below and 80 and below without changing the setting?
Personally I would lower it to 80 Hz, it will absolutely not pose any more danger to the speaker than crossing it over at 100 Hz.

I mean the processor can make a difference between different setting for different speakers and send the +/- to different speakers and keeping the sub setting at 80Hz and make a difference in theory for each speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

How tall is the mini tripod? Are you able to get it at ear level to where you normally sit? Are you stacking something underneath the mini tripod? These could all be factors...in the end Hicks is right, you can cross it over at 80 and not have any issues.

Yes, ear level but not as stable as I would like to be.
I would like to invest into a boom stand. So far what I fund is a boom mike for $46, then the following adaptors for $72 and $38.
A grant total of $156 for a one time job.

I have already reset everething at 80 since most people seem to tell me it is the right way.

Now boom mike search for a cheaper solution:rolleyes:

Ray
post #6532 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

Yes, ear level but not as stable as I would like to be.
I would like to invest into a boom stand. So far what I fund is a boom mike for $46, then the following adaptors for $72 and $38.
A grant total of $156 for a one time job.

I have already reset everething at 80 since most people seem to tell me it is the right way.

Now boom mike search for a cheaper solution:rolleyes:

Ray
End your search here...just saw this on another post:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=233-006
post #6533 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

I mean the processor can make a difference between different setting for different speakers and send the +/- to different speakers and keeping the sub setting at 80Hz and make a difference in theory for each speakers.

Ray

Oh sure, you can definitely use different crossover points for different speakers in your set up if your receiver allows for it.

In my opinion I think going with 60 for the fronts and center and then 80 for the sub and surrounds is fine if it gives you the resulting sound you are trying to achieve.
post #6534 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

I mean the processor can make a difference between different setting for different speakers and send the +/- to different speakers and keeping the sub setting at 80Hz and make a difference in theory for each speakers.
Yes, ear level but not as stable as I would like to be.
I would like to invest into a boom stand. So far what I fund is a boom mike for $46, then the following adaptors for $72 and $38.
A grant total of $156 for a one time job.

I have already reset everething at 80 since most people seem to tell me it is the right way.

Now boom mike search for a cheaper solution:rolleyes:

Ray

I made mine out of pvc pipe. I did not glue it so it is easy to store. I use a zip strip to secure the mike.
post #6535 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

End your search here...just saw this on another post:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=233-006

I will do some reading on that one to see if I will also need those attachment mention in the Audyssey FAQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Oh sure, you can definitely use different crossover points for different speakers in your set up if your receiver allows for it.

In my opinion I think going with 60 for the fronts and center and then 80 for the sub and surrounds is fine if it gives you the resulting sound you are trying to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaudio View Post

I made mine out of pvc pipe. I did not glue it so it is easy to store. I use a zip strip to secure the mike.

Thanks you all for the helpful ideas.

Ray
post #6536 of 6860
http://www.soundocity.com/Gallery.html

Anybody tried some of these?
I am thinking to get a couple set since I cannot stabilize my Grand Verus as much as I would like.
A little expensive but if they do the job, the money will be long forgeten very fast.

Ray
post #6537 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

http://www.soundocity.com/Gallery.html

Anybody tried some of these?
I am thinking to get a couple set since I cannot stabilize my Grand Verus as much as I would like.
A little expensive but if they do the job, the money will be long forgeten very fast.

Ray

I haven't but those appear to be well constructed.
post #6538 of 6860
Hicks, Any update on the Verus Bipole/Dipole Surround? Last I had heard you were looking at June. I am anxiously awaiting the re-release.
post #6539 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyairman View Post

Hicks, Any update on the Verus Bipole/Dipole Surround? Last I had heard you were looking at June. I am anxiously awaiting the re-release.

As a matter of fact yes!

They won't be here in June, but production is spinning up right now and I can with 99% confidence say they will be here in September.

You can pre-order them now here:

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers-by-type/surround-speakers/verus-surround-dipole-bipole-speaker

Sorry for the long wait but thanks for your patience, we think it will be worth it!
post #6540 of 6860
I have the VGT since last december. My room is "L" shaped, about 3500 cubic feet with ceramic tiles and hardwood flooring, an acoustical nightmare !
Because of the room configuration and the VGT being rear ported, i had to keep them about 3 1/2' from the back wall in order to get them sounding the way i want.

I was really pleased with my set up but earlier this week, i got a new SB13-Ultra and because of a new room configuration, i had to find a way to get the VGT closer to the back wall. Using the Quick Measure feature in my MRX 300, i was able to get them as close as 20" from the wall by plugging the lower port in each tower. Than i ran ARC to complete the installation.

After some serious listening with music, even without the sub, i found that this set up is better than the early one. The towers have more punch in the mid-bass and the bass is tighter. Don't know exactly why but in my room, they definitely sound better this way.

I ran ARC a couples of times and it came up with a 60HZ crossover for the VGT and the VGC.
I've tried different crossover settings all the way up to 120HZ but 60HZ gave me the best results for the front speakers / sub combination.
For now, side surrounds are Polk Tsi-100 and rear surrounds are Polk RTiA3, ARC crossed them at 80HZ.

I just watched Skyfall and U-571, i'm still cleaning the broken dishes in the kitchen !!!
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