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*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 222

post #6631 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Advice please. Got my VGTs and a Verus Forte center Yesterday. Very happy with them so far sound and sight wise. Question regards the Forte center. Running YPAO on my AVR shows the Forte as out of phase. Never had this problem before except with bipolar surrounds. Checked wiring and made sure banana plugs tight etc. Conclusion is that Forte is wired wrong internally. However, switching + for - on AVR results in YPAO showing phasing is ok and speaker sounds fine. Very familiar voices sound like I expect then to and center blends very well with the VGTs. Volume level results are ~ 3 db above the left VGT and the old but larger Klipsch center the Forte is replacing. Should I be concerned about the probable internal wiring problem or just continue to enjoy??
Thanks

Sorry about that, so the speaker sounds thinner/less detailed when you connect it going from positive to positive and negative to negative from the receiver?
post #6632 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

I'm glad you found us too Ray! smile.gif

Hey everyone, check out the Bravus 12D in cherry that arrived yesterday and is shipping now!

Bravus 12D Subwoofer Cherry

Wow, as an satisfied owner of a cherry Bravus 12D (first generation), I have to ask that conflicting question.
Do I need a second Bravus II 12D in a 13 by 14 foot room? Hmmm...
post #6633 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Sorry about that, so the speaker sounds thinner/less detailed when you connect it going from positive to positive and negative to negative from the receiver?

Haven't tried it with actual source material. Always "fixed" it before listening. YPAO test tone at start of EQ does not sound the same as for all the other speakers. Will test it. By the way, The VGTs do such a good job on dialog in stereo mode that a center is (almost) not needed. This is without using a "phantom" center setting with the VGTs about 9' apart and a seating distance of ~ 8'. I will report back after the test. Thanks for the reply.
post #6634 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by BacHolz View Post

Wow, as an satisfied owner of a cherry Bravus 12D (first generation), I have to ask that conflicting question.
Do I need a second Bravus II 12D in a 13 by 14 foot room? Hmmm...

You probably don't "need" another, but you might want one! smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Haven't tried it with actual source material. Always "fixed" it before listening. YPAO test tone at start of EQ does not sound the same as for all the other speakers. Will test it. By the way, The VGTs do such a good job on dialog in stereo mode that a center is (almost) not needed. This is without using a "phantom" center setting with the VGTs about 9' apart and a seating distance of ~ 8'. I will report back after the test. Thanks for the reply.

I would check it out with content wired both ways and then report back. One of the midrange drivers is wired out of phase by design to tame a peak through that region, so in all probability this is what the YPAO is detecting and you should get better results with it wired properly.
post #6635 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

You probably don't "need" another, but you might want one! smile.gif
I would check it out with content wired both ways and then report back. One of the midrange drivers is wired out of phase by design to tame a peak through that region, so in all probability this is what the YPAO is detecting and you should get better results with it wired properly.

My test results = I can not tell any real difference between "out of phase" and not using familiar reference material. Having to make a choice, I chose what YPAO calls out of phase i.e. + to + and - to -. Thanks for the explanation as to why YPAO may get it wrong.
post #6636 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

My test results = I can not tell any real difference between "out of phase" and not using familiar reference material. Having to make a choice, I chose what YPAO calls out of phase i.e. + to + and - to -. Thanks for the explanation as to why YPAO may get it wrong.

Cool, glad to help!
post #6637 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

Hi Ray - any specific reason for extending the speakers out a bit? For my current HT cabinet (which has a lip around the edge), I had to choose between having the VGC extend out a bit, or have it within the cabinet, but angled upward. I tried both, and angling toward ear-level was much more important, since I had to choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

SVS PB12-NSD, which has performed very well in my modest space. The new space will be 2.5x the size, though, so I'll have to see if I need to run duals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

On my set-up. The center is on a stand, still not perfect since it is between the 2 subs.
To answer your question. It is like a speakers away from a wall bondary.
The less reflection you get, the easier is to get to perfection.
I do not see why not!
Tilting a center is like deciding what angle your main should be.
Try and try until you find the perfect tow in and angle down/up.



As you can see from these pics.
I got the GVC finaly flush (with my new outriggers for the center stand), not in front like I preach but it is the best I can do in my situation without piercing the other carpet.

Also I am a big fan of dual subs so if I were you I would definatly add a second PB12-NSD.
It does never hurt to have to much extention or power.


Ray
Edited by darthray - 7/13/13 at 12:03pm
post #6638 of 6860
Hello all, I've been the proud owner of a pair of VGBs and a VGC, along with a HSU VTF-15H to handle the low end. I am currently deployed but am in the process of expanding while I am gone. I will be purchasing a pair of VGTs and a pair of Verus surrounds (when they become available 9/15) to coincide with my return. With this completion of my 7.1 system, I am debating whether to try and power this with my Denon 4311CI or utilize it as a pre/pro for some sepearates. I got online this morning and received a notification about the Generation 2 XPA-5 and 2 . I have been looking at them as possibilities as Gen 1, and I'm really getting close to pulling the trigger on both for Gen 2. Anyone have any recommendations for what the push their Aperions with? Good experiences or bad? Appreciate any assistance you guys could provide.
post #6639 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyairman View Post

Hello all, I've been the proud owner of a pair of VGBs and a VGC, along with a HSU VTF-15H to handle the low end. I am currently deployed but am in the process of expanding while I am gone. I will be purchasing a pair of VGTs and a pair of Verus surrounds (when they become available 9/15) to coincide with my return. With this completion of my 7.1 system, I am debating whether to try and power this with my Denon 4311CI or utilize it as a pre/pro for some sepearates. I got online this morning and received a notification about the Generation 2 XPA-5 and 2 . I have been looking at them as possibilities as Gen 1, and I'm really getting close to pulling the trigger on both for Gen 2. Anyone have any recommendations for what the push their Aperions with? Good experiences or bad? Appreciate any assistance you guys could provide.

I personaly woud go with the Emotive amps and use the Denon as a pre-amp.
Once you got seperate, you never go back.
My self, I got an Outlaw 7700 and an Onkyo PRS886 (running VGT,VGC and 4 VGB).
I have been running power amp for years and normaly don't need to up-grade the power (except to go to balance if the power amp does not have it and your pre-amp do).

Have good tour and stay safe.

Ray
post #6640 of 6860
http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/20930/new-aperion-grand-tower-onkyo


Trickyairman,
Before you spend your money read this thread from the Emotiva Lounge. There are a few posts on the Emotiva site similar to this one and this guy is using an AVR with less power than yours. I've been considering a power amp too but I keep reading results like this and it scares me away. There are some who swear by the added power and just as many who swear they make no difference at all. If you read the Polk forums almost every person there will tell you that the power amps make all the difference in the world but I've always been skeptical of those kinds of claims. I'm still curious and at some point I'll probably try a separate amp as well only because of Emotiva's return policy. I certainly give Emotiva a lot of credit for not deleting these kinds of posts on their own forum.
I power my Verus Grands with a Denon 4520 and they sound fine to me but like most in this hobby I'm always looking for "better".
post #6641 of 6860
Well, i have a 7.1 system and i bought a Sherbourn PA5-200 a couple of weeks ago to power my VGT/VGC and side surrounds.
The back speakers are powered by my Anthem MRX-300. The only reason i bought the amp is because my MRX was running out of breath during those heavy action scenes when watching movies.
In this regard, it makes a world of difference but for stereo listening, the MRX was more than adequate.
post #6642 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niavlys View Post

Well, i have a 7.1 system and i bought a Sherbourn PA5-200 a couple of weeks ago to power my VGT/VGC and side surrounds.
The back speakers are powered by my Anthem MRX-300. The only reason i bought the amp is because my MRX was running out of breath during those heavy action scenes when watching movies.
In this regard, it makes a world of difference but for stereo listening, the MRX was more than adequate.

This is why I favor seperate amps.
When needed, the power is there.

How do you like the sherbourn?
For what I remember they were a similar design to my Outlaw.

Back to speakers, aperion do make nice ones.

Ray
post #6643 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post

This is why I favor seperate amps.
When needed, the power is there.

How do you like the sherbourn?
For what I remember they were a similar design to my Outlaw.

Back to speakers, aperion do make nice ones.

Ray

I love it, very nice amp with plenty of power and it stays cool, even when pushed hard smile.gif
One thing that surprised me is how well the VGT sounds at high spl.
Some speakers sounds well at moderate volume but when pushed to higher spl, the sound quality simply fall apart.
That’s not the case with the VGT, these things can handle a lot of power, play loud, and still sounds great.
post #6644 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niavlys View Post

I love it, very nice amp with plenty of power and it stays cool, even when pushed hard smile.gif
One thing that surprised me is how well the VGT sounds at high spl.
Some speakers sounds well at moderate volume but when pushed to higher spl, the sound quality simply fall apart.
That’s not the case with the VGT, these things can handle a lot of power, play loud, and still sounds great.

+1
The VGT do play very nicely when playing loud and a good amp do help by providing the power when needed.

Ray
post #6645 of 6860
Do you know what db level you typically listen to music at? I'm curious at what point you think the amp makes itself a worthwhile upgrade. I'm still on the fence about adding one.

I usually listen to music somewhere between 80 & 90 dbs and I haven't felt like my AVR was pushing but I'm not even sure what to listen for?
post #6646 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

Do you know what db level you typically listen to music at? I'm curious at what point you think the amp makes itself a worthwhile upgrade. I'm still on the fence about adding one.

I usually listen to music somewhere between 80 & 90 dbs and I haven't felt like my AVR was pushing but I'm not even sure what to listen for?

Short answer, no.
I raise the level to a confortly one (not concert volume).

If you push your AVR, you would know.
It is the point when things start to sound distorded or the volume does not seem to play any louder (this to point where you can damage any speaker since the amp section no longer control the speaker behaviour).

I have been using power amps for lots of years and I would never go back.
AVR can do a very nice job too when not push and this also apply to amps of low wattage.
If it start to sound "not quit right" you may need more power.

Hopefully this help a bit.

Ray
post #6647 of 6860
When I added my Emotiva XPA-5, the sound of my VGT's and VGC wasn't "louder" but for me what it did was make the overall sound so much cleaner. For me the center channel benefited more from the added amp and the other speakers, the voices became so much cleaner and more precise. The added power really affected my surrounds as well the are more pronounced they before also much more detail being heard than before.
Just my 2 cents.

Rustolem
post #6648 of 6860
What did you have for power before the Emotiva?
post #6649 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

What did you have for power before the Emotiva?

Just my Yamaha RX-A3000, which brought loudness to the speakers but the detail that I am getting was with the amp. I went from probably 80w per into 5 channels to now 200w per on every channel. It helped make it not just louder but better.
Edited by Rustolem - 7/14/13 at 6:08pm
post #6650 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustolem View Post

When I added my Emotiva XPA-5, the sound of my VGT's and VGC wasn't "louder" but for me what it did was make the overall sound so much cleaner. For me the center channel benefited more from the added amp and the other speakers, the voices became so much cleaner and more precise. The added power really affected my surrounds as well the are more pronounced they before also much more detail being heard than before.
Just my 2 cents.

Rustolem

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

What did you have for power before the Emotiva?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustolem View Post

Just my Yamaha RX-A3000, which brought loudness to the speakers but the detail that I am getting with the amp. I went from probably 80w per into 5 channels to now 200w per on every channel. It help but make it just louder but better.

Big +1
The biggest difference between a power amp and AVR.
Is most power amp are rated with all channel playing and most receiver (there is a few exeption) rate there power at so many watts but one or two channel at time and quit often at 1000Hz and not the 20 to 20000Hz like most power amp do.

If someone is happy with their AVR, than more than likely you have reach your point of hapiness.
In this hobby, spending double does not mean your are getting 50% better sound.
Depending where you are with your system, it could be between 2-20%

Some of us keep chasing the white rabbit (the 2-5% ones).

This is why you got speakers and AV that cost more than a house.
You have to find your Happy medium.


Ray
post #6651 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post



Big +1
The biggest difference between a power amp and AVR.
Is most power amp are rated with all channel playing and most receiver (there is a few exeption) rate there power at so many watts but one or two channel at time and quit often at 1000Hz and not the 20 to 20000Hz like most power amp do.

If someone is happy with their AVR, than more than likely you have reach your point of hapiness.
In this hobby, spending double does not mean your are getting 50% better sound.
Depending where you are with your system, it could be between 2-20%

Some of us keep chasing the white rabbit (the 2-5% ones).

This is why you got speakers and AV that cost more than a house.
You have to find your Happy medium.


Ray

You are right about that, I wish I had learned about "separates" along time ago. You can now by a nice lower end receiver and add a good amp (Emotiva) and get incredible sound. To me it is a waste to spend $1500 or more on a AVR, there is so much crap on them that no one will ever need or use. I am hopefully going to replace my AVR with just a Processor soon. I love my Verus Grand speakers but the ones I had before them. Axiom, that I sold I now feel like I didn't give them a fair chance when I was only using my AVR to power them. They may have so much better with real power and clarity that only an amp can provide.
post #6652 of 6860
I've had a similar experience with mine. I couldn't have been happier with it until I got the updated new box. Since then, the updated box died after about a month, but even before it did, the channels were all mixed up and the box started having trouble finding a full 5.1, which hadn't happened even once with the old box. Then after a somewhat insulting experience with Customer Service, I got a new box. It hasn't died, but I can't ever get it to connect to all of the speakers. I'm not really sure what to do since this system (which I had previously loved) has turned out to be quite a headache.
post #6653 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustolem View Post

You are right about that, I wish I had learned about "separates" along time ago. You can now by a nice lower end receiver and add a good amp (Emotiva) and get incredible sound. To me it is a waste to spend $1500 or more on a AVR, there is so much crap on them that no one will ever need or use. I am hopefully going to replace my AVR with just a Processor soon. I love my Verus Grand speakers but the ones I had before them. Axiom, that I sold I now feel like I didn't give them a fair chance when I was only using my AVR to power them. They may have so much better with real power and clarity that only an amp can provide.

Agree,
A good power amp do make a difference, so does a good processor, but honestly, a processor will not be as much.
Don't get get me wrong. I do enjoy having a real processor but the difference are subtile and not night and day but they will be there
Processor do cost more due the fact, manufcture try very hard the first time to get it right since they are not mass produce.

For the Axiom, I can not comment since I never hearded them, but I am very happy with the sound of the aperion Verus Grand series.
My only future up-grad will be a 4K JVC projector and more than likely be done.

Ray
.
post #6654 of 6860
Here's another shot of the 12D in cherry, pretty stunning if you ask me!

cherry Bravus 12D
post #6655 of 6860
I'm trying to audition speakers and find what I like at the moment. Do Aperion products go on sale often? I am eyeing the Forte speakers and am wondering why are they listed $100-200 higher than MSRP posted in most professional reviews I find of these speakers? Did Aperion raise their price?

Second I see that the Verus Grand is highly reviewed and won Audioholics product of the year. Bass differences aside how to the Forte's compare?
post #6656 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewarthog View Post

I'm trying to audition speakers and find what I like at the moment. Do Aperion products go on sale often? I am eyeing the Forte speakers and am wondering why are they listed $100-200 higher than MSRP posted in most professional reviews I find of these speakers? Did Aperion raise their price?

Second I see that the Verus Grand is highly reviewed and won Audioholics product of the year. Bass differences aside how to the Forte's compare?

They do go on sale but from what I gather it's not very often. I ordered some a couple months ago and got 20% off one item. I wasn't really ready to order but I did anyway since it was the last day of the sale. I got the Verus Grand Center and a pair of Verus Grand Bookshelfs. I wonder if I had made 2 separate orders would I have been able to get 20% off both???

As far as the prices go, I believe they raised all the prices by 10%-20% late last year on everything.

So anyway I just ordered 2 pairs of Verus Forte Satellites today to complete my speaker system. I got my other 3 speakers in May and haven't had a chance to use them yet. I am close to finishing my room. My wiring is 95% done, drywall is done and I had my living room and open kitchen painted over the last 2 days. Now I just have to cut out the area for my boxes, pull the coiled wire out of the wall, mount my TV and hook up my equipment. Only thing I won't have is a newer bigger TV and a new sub which I will be getting in the next year,
post #6657 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewarthog View Post

I'm trying to audition speakers and find what I like at the moment. Do Aperion products go on sale often? I am eyeing the Forte speakers and am wondering why are they listed $100-200 higher than MSRP posted in most professional reviews I find of these speakers? Did Aperion raise their price?

Second I see that the Verus Grand is highly reviewed and won Audioholics product of the year. Bass differences aside how to the Forte's compare?

Hello there,

We don't have many sales but occasionally we do run specials. Our Verus product has been selling really well over the last year though, so it's not too likely that we will run anything for that family. We raised the prices back in January. Unfortunately due to constantly increasing production costs it was a necessary move. The Verus speakers prices had not been raised since their release in 2010, with the exception of a $50 increase on the Forte Tower in 2012. However, we still think they offer a great value in comparison with our competition.

Besides bass extension, you'll get a fuller midrange, broader soundstage and more room filling capability when you go from the Verus Forte to the Grand. The Verus Grand Tower is our flagship speaker and offers the most life-like sound reproduction of all of our speakers.

I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions!
post #6658 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by esswun View Post

They do go on sale but from what I gather it's not very often. I ordered some a couple months ago and got 20% off one item. I wasn't really ready to order but I did anyway since it was the last day of the sale. I got the Verus Grand Center and a pair of Verus Grand Bookshelfs. I wonder if I had made 2 separate orders would I have been able to get 20% off both???

As far as the prices go, I believe they raised all the prices by 10%-20% late last year on everything.

So anyway I just ordered 2 pairs of Verus Forte Satellites today to complete my speaker system. I got my other 3 speakers in May and haven't had a chance to use them yet. I am close to finishing my room. My wiring is 95% done, drywall is done and I had my living room and open kitchen painted over the last 2 days. Now I just have to cut out the area for my boxes, pull the coiled wire out of the wall, mount my TV and hook up my equipment. Only thing I won't have is a newer bigger TV and a new sub which I will be getting in the next year,

Thanks for the repeat business, please let us know what you think about them once you get them hooked up!
post #6659 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Thanks for the repeat business, please let us know what you think about them once you get them hooked up!

Well I'll tell you this...

My old speakers are Polk RM Series II satellites (with the ceramic-like enclosure) that came in a 5.1 channel set that I bought way back in 1999. At that time I was 20 years old and the set was over $1K which was huge for me. I was the first person I knew to have a Dolby Digital receiver and a DVD player. Over the years I upgraded all my electronics but those little speakers played on and have always sounded great for their size and price point.

Now that I have the means for much better equipment and a large room (23' x 19') on my own property and not an apartment or townhouse I definitely needed something that sounded better and where I can finally play my music and movies as loud as I want.

When I received the center and the bookshelfs I did hook them up real quick just to make sure they worked. Without running any of the calibration on my receiver or adjusting any settings other than various sound fields on my receiver I could already tell the Aperions were head and shoulders better. Once I run MCACC and get everything right I'm sure they will be exponentially better than that too!

I don't think I'm qualified to label myself an audiophile but I have known a few people into high quality AV so I at least can tell what good speakers are. I'm sure there are $20K speakers out there that sound better but these Aperions are exceptionally good for my position. Your company policies are also very accommodating and I'm sure I'll be completely pleased once they are all installed and ready to go.

I'll check back in once I get into using them.
post #6660 of 6860
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewarthog View Post

I'm trying to audition speakers and find what I like at the moment. Do Aperion products go on sale often? I am eyeing the Forte speakers and am wondering why are they listed $100-200 higher than MSRP posted in most professional reviews I find of these speakers? Did Aperion raise their price?

Second I see that the Verus Grand is highly reviewed and won Audioholics product of the year. Bass differences aside how to the Forte's compare?

Yes most review are a couple years old and the price just reflect totays market, but it is still a great value as far as I am concern.
If you can afford the Grand, Go for it, if not I would not sweat it.

You have to set yourself a budget and don't look back until the the pesos are more available.

Welcome to chasing the white rabbit family.

Ray
Edited by darthray - 7/24/13 at 7:35pm
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