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A 124" Diagonal S-I-L-V-E-R "Dry Wall Screen" in Gestation

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Below is the wall intended to receive the S-I-L-V-E-R application. It is getting a primer coat of Kilz-2 this afternoon. After having mixed up the S-I-L-V-E-R in it's can, I'll be posting images of the ingredients, as well as links to videos that show the method of spraying a "Duster' coat of the stuff.



This room will have dark brown walls, a darker brown Ceiling, and total light control. It has a Seating Platform in the rear as well, so everything is set "In Stone".
post #2 of 36
I looke forward to seeing those links to videos.... as I'll be spraying very soon!
post #3 of 36
Thread Starter 
Hey Nate!

I have to be in Columbus, Ohio very soon. Perhaps a Beer toast or a few "Straight ups" are in order?
post #4 of 36
Sounds good to me!

When are you coming?
post #5 of 36
Sorry, off topic side note alert, but, nothing mean or spiteful.

I love Columbus. I have had a lot of fun at the Short North and German Village.
post #6 of 36
Thread Starter 
Waddya know. At least sumpthin' got "White" this Christmas.



A reference shot below shows how big 124" diagonal really is.





Overall, the wall surface is excellent. It took a swipe or three of Mud over some dents and screw heads, and then a few dabs of Spackle over a additional stubborn spot, but after priming, only a very small "straight line dent" remained at upper right. That disappears today sometime.

You can see at the Bottom of the screen's taped off area where I moved the screen up on the wall an additional 6"

I used a 6" Foam Trim Roller to apply the Kilz-2. First a thin coat applied from right to left in vertical strokes, taking care to smooth out obvious roller lines and feather edges. Then after reaching the opposite left edge, I went over the surface again with a slightly heavier application. The first coating was so thin, and the room's temperature was about 80 degrees, so the initial coat was dry in about 15 minutes. Well....at least dry enough for primer.

I waited an additional 10 extra minutes for the heavier 2nd coat to dry after reaching the left side, then lathered on another coat. Rolling out the heaviest areas was no issue with the Foam Roller, and the result was a glassy smooth finish. Today, the screen gets 1 more coat of primer after I touch up the aforementioned "dent". That should provide a white base up to CMRA specifications.

On a "Grinch" note. Someone decided to walk off with my 2 quart cans of Behr Crystal Clear Faux Glaze and the quart of Behr Silver Metallic. They did leave my HVLP Gun though....and Compressor & Hose.
post #7 of 36
Thread Starter 
No Hangover, so work goes on!
post #8 of 36
MMan,

How's this thing goin'? I still wanna S-I-L-V-E-R screen shot!

mech
post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

MMan,

How's this thing goin'? I still wanna S-I-L-V-E-R screen shot!

mech

Maybe I can assist a bit. Here's a couple. Naturally, the camera can capture only so much. Hope this helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7663827
post #10 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Maybe I can assist a bit. Here's a couple. Naturally, the camera can capture only so much. Hope this helps.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7663827


Well.............., nothing seemed "OMG" to me. I've seen and taken better. Probably had to be there....right?
post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ok. Specific instructions on the application of S-I-L-V-E-R include the necessity of applying the S-I-L-V-E-R as 6 to 8 very light "Duster" coats.

That means keeping a distance of 13" to 14" away from the surface, and moving at a rapid but consistent speed horizontally back and forth. CMRA suggests as small an overlap as can be possibly maintained. I did not go that route. I overlapped by 50%, feeling that consistency was greater because I avoided having areas that received no paint.

But an additional advantage would be/is coordination and rhythm.

"Ya got ta move it, move it. Ya got ta move it, move it. Ya got to move it, move it.
Ya got ta ..........MOVE IT! "
post #12 of 36
Thread Starter 
Here is a series of images showing the seperate S-I-L-V-E-R components, the same all mixed up in the can, and exposed on the "Lid" .















Next are images showing progessively magnified shots of the S-I-L-V-E-R build-up after 5 coats on the the "painted" Wall / "primed" Screen surface. A Flash was used to increase the 'presence" of the Mica Flakes









..........and here is a composite photo consisting of the original "size' as seen at 25% of 2560 x 1980 and at 100% of that size. It is of the surface after 6 "drying time" , and under a very close-in Flash Shot.





Coming soon,

Spraying S-I-L-V-E-R with an assist from none other than Bob Seager

.........really!
post #13 of 36
How about a closeup with a dime in the shot? I'm having a hard time visualizing the surface.

Garry
post #14 of 36
I knew all you needed was a kick in the pants!

mech
post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

I knew all you needed was a kick in the pants!

mech

And, lots of beer. It only took him 7 months. No, it's January, make that 8.
post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
I can move when I "have" to.

.......and if you want to paint a DIY Screen with S-I-L-V-E-R, "You haVE TO MOVE IT, movE IT!

Viola'

post #17 of 36
Thread Starter 
Below are shots taken of a "SandiPly" Plywood sheet 72" x 39" in size that i used as my "Test" palatte when getting accustomed to spraying to Bob Seager.

I thought it wise to do my first squirt on something a little less permanent than a 124' wall surface.

If anything, I started out using greater care than necessary, knowing that "too little' paint applied could always be corrected. This board also received 4 coats of Kilz-2. SandiPly plywood is both a multi-ply finish grade material and so is very smooth, and I thought it could be an alternative material when something "wood' was needed, so thats why it was choosen as my "test bed".

All in all, it worked fine.




But the nature of the Glaze / Silver mix it to accentuate ANY defect on a surface. In this shot, everything appears fine;




But when you get your nose up close, and hit the surface with a high intensity light such as you see I was using, the "Nasty' rears it's ugliness.




Strangely enough, when a projected image is upon the screen, even close scrutiny cannot ascertain the scratches that seem like "Territorial Bear Claw Markings" you see magnified above. The difference is so striking between what you see illustrated above in directly applied side lighting, and what can be seen under 'normal' viewing conditions, that I would not be agast or even hesitant to use this particular surface. I'd hate to see it go to waste, so.................. stay tuned!

BTW, hasn't anybody noticed anything different about the photos I've recently posted?
post #18 of 36
Hey MM hows it going.........Painting wood can present different problems over drywall and Plexiglas for sure. A couple of coats of sanding sealer first would knock down the grain(evens out the difference between hard and soft spots in wood grain) and should help to offset your number of Kilz primer coats.

I am not totally surprised that the grain did not show up as a problem when an image was projected, BUT I am intrigued as to what a fine grain would do to AMBIENT light. I wish I could test your screen to see if the (fine grain) had any effect on......say Horizontal or Vertical ambient light.........

A lot of us DIY's have experimented with different mix's but few of us can play with different texture patterns like a screen MFG can.

Good luck and keep us posted

PS I like the shade of the mix color you used. I'm getting the ITCH to paint up some samples with some of you guys mix's.......
post #19 of 36
We all know you KNOW how to squirt paint (nice) but where's the good stuff? Methinks you got the mix 'jesrite' because it looks 'jeslike' mine. (Except fer them thar bear tracks)Good shootin'.
post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
Ok,

I have ready some images taken on the 82" diagonal "Wood Surface". I will comment on each "before" they are presented.

But first, a quick look at the mechanics of the installation that item found a home in.

This is the Room. A small, narrow Bonus Room over a garage. 20' deep -x- 11' wide, with 40" Knee Walls and a "supposedly" 45 degree sloped ceiling.




It is hung via a 65" long French Cleat affair, with the "Wall Mounted" section of the French Cleat being a 1" x 8" and the opposing 65" "Screen Mounted" French Cleat being a 1" x 4". This is how the French Cleat hanging system looks from the side.




With Velvet Trim applied, the appearance of the screen "Floating" is not an illusion, it is in fact suspended away from the wall on all sides.




A S-I-L-V-E-R screenie taken from 22" back, on "Auto".




Same frame, taken from the side at 120 degrees




Ben Affleck, @ 14' and looking as good as possible (....for him, anyway. Less Jenny.)




And lastly, a shot of something just as pretty as can be, made "Mo bedder" by S-I-L-V-E-R



Digest these images. They come to you via my new...yes... new Digital Camera. A Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ1 6mp 10x Optical Zoom.
The infamous old Toshiba M81 is officially replaced.

PS,

For those who might consider asking, comparative shots of S-I-L-V-E-R against a Matte White will take place with the much bigger 124" S-I-L-V-E-R that this screen served as a test bed for. That might/should happen within about 2 weeks. However, I have made some specific observations and have already drawn some opinions (mostly all good) from what I've already seen when taking the shots above this AM. I will post those comments soon below.
post #21 of 36
I just got off the phone with MM. He requested I post some S-I-L-V-E-R screenies other than the ones I took with the my D50. So, flashback: Optoma on S-I-L-V-E-R with my Olympus E100-RS. Sorry, MM, these will have to do for now. I'm to busy and too lazy right now to redo for new.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7693238
post #22 of 36
MMan and/or CMRA,

MMan posted this over in the laminate thread:

If the concentration of reflective material, as well as it's "lay", is as close to optimum as can be hoped, then Silver has almost no equal in a Light controlled environment.

Does this mean that S-I-L-V-E-R doesn't do well in ambient light? I always thought it would...

mech
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

MMan and/or CMRA,

MMan posted this over in the laminate thread:

If the concentration of reflective material, as well as it's "lay", is as close to optimum as can be hoped, then Silver has almost no equal in a Light controlled environment.

Does this mean that S-I-L-V-E-R doesn't do well in ambient light? I always thought it would...

mech

I don't know much about it, but I'd think it would be only a fair AL screen. Remember, the metal flake is going to reflect light coming from all directions to a certain degree... unlike something like a HP screen which mostly reflects light back at the source.
post #24 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

MMan and/or CMRA,

MMan posted this over in the laminate thread:

If the concentration of reflective material, as well as it's "lay", is as close to optimum as can be hoped, then Silver has almost no equal in a Light controlled environment.

Does this mean that S-I-L-V-E-R doesn't do well in ambient light? I always thought it would...

mech

S-I-L-V-E-R IS MOST ASSUREDLY NOT a AL screen.

It is specifically well suited for controlled lighting. Having said that, ambient light that is sufficiently bright enough to read by, and is not directed toward the screen in any way, does not adversely affect the image quality. Even with a 1000 lumen PJ. But there is a break even/downhill point. And you can see it coming. One moment the colors and Blacks a well neigh perfect, then of a sudden it's obviously washing out because the S-I-L-V-E-R starts picking up any light that is equal or in excess to the output of the PJ, and the influence of it's cone of projected light.

But if you notice in a few of the shots above, I have the 4 - 4" Can-Spots (50 watts ea,) up all the way. The forward most pair of Cans are about 7.5' in front of the Screen, directed downward onto the backs of the Front Row Seating.

What I'm saying is that in a Theater where at least some thought and consideration is given to a "practical" lighting scheme, S-I-L-V-E-R'S reflective output is more than sufficient when it is contained within a shadowed area.

But it better be "Dark Shadows"
post #25 of 36
So MM if the S-I-L-V-E-R is not for ambient light then what is the benefit of this particular mix? Gain for a low lumen PJ?

Please expound for our benefit.

Rob
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highside View Post

So MM if the S-I-L-V-E-R is not for ambient light then what is the benefit of this particular mix? Gain for a low lumen PJ?

Please expound for our benefit.

Rob

Rob,
I'm probably the most qualified to answer your question. Click the link.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7612239
post #27 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highside View Post

So MM if the S-I-L-V-E-R is not for ambient light then what is the benefit of this particular mix? Gain for a low lumen PJ?

Please expound for our benefit.

Rob

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Rob,
I'm probably the most qualified to answer your question. Click the link.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7612239


Sounds like Hype to me.

But most everything rings true.

But conditioned with a big buncha IFs

IF you have excellent Light Control

IF you have a well thought out Lighting scheme.

IF you have a SMOOTH surface, unblemished surface

IF you have a GOOD spray rig.
(....please, no Wagners or such.....it ain't happn' )

IF you get the Mix right and don't experiment.

IF you practice your spray technique.

IF you apply at least 8 extremely light "Duster Coats" coats correctly.

It all sounds pretty IFFY , doesn't it?

Most really good things do come with conditions however, and IF one meets all the criteria above, and does so with aplomb, the end results are more spectacular than most of you could imagine.

However.................., I have some detailed commentary coming soon, and some of it does have my own take on the list above.

Imagine that?
post #28 of 36
Thread Starter 
....and now is better late than never.

My commentary shall be brief. Almost to a fault.

Application:
Must be sprayed. No exceptions. With a Gun capable of fully atomizing the paint.
Not so much skill as practice and consistency is required to paint this application. Oh yes.......and patience. Lot of that. The thin, wet mix takes longer to "set" than almost anything else I've ever dealt with. And you DO NOT want to rush into the next coat.

To do so, or to try to apply thicker individual coatings risks having a Metallic sheen develop from your creating too densely packed a concentration of Mica particles. This produces a "Mirrored" effect with the obvious consequences.

So 7-8 coats dusted on as described hence is the expectation and requirement. Good luck. It's worth it, but only because the advantage of using Metallic Silver's attributes without any of it's caveats is worth being considered. But I repeat. It's worth it. Read on.

Appearance:
When sufficient duster coats have been applied, the screen's surface will appear to be a light, "Whitish Silver" color, that upon close inspection shows a densely packed surface of Silver Metallic particles that overlay a darker Gray Base. That is an illusion of sorts, since the layer of paint involved can be measured in the low micron level. But even at the individual level, the tendency for unevenly distributed light to reflect unevenly across the surface of the Mica chips make for a similar situation as compared to a DLP's mirrors turning on/off. In the case where a consistently flat surface is turned toward the light source, the areas surrounding each Mica chip are not reflective, they are absorptive. As light gradually spills down around the perimeter of each Mica chip, flat or edgewise, the contrast produced between the reflective and non-reflective areas results in a perfect combination of reflectivity and dampening. Bright shades are as bright as they can/should be, but are held in check by the amount off counterbalancing the Gray hued background provides. Intermediate shades do not get an overage of light boosting, but they lose virtually nothing in the transition between being directed light, and reflected light. Blacks however get a real whalloping boost from both the Black present in the Silver Metallic mix itself,(....even as diluted as it is.....) as well as the the not so strange tendency for any reflective surface to attenuate a "Black" or darker image more so than it will/does a brighter image.

All the above makes for a screen with so much "PoP", it should carry the Reddenbacher brand. As CMRA stated, and I'll agree at this point, S-I-L-V-E-R provides the Light Fusion appearance, and more....without a Mirror.

Practical applications and limitations.

Light Controlled Theater Rooms (...or Theme lighting that directs light away from the screen)

MUST absolutely be applied on a perfectly smooth substrate for any real assurAnce that undue texture or surface imperfections inherent in the substrate do not re-manifest themselves through the S-I-L-V-E-R.

Works equally well with either High or Low Lumen PJs

The "temporary" projector ( Z5 ) for the 124" S-I-L-V-E-R related to herein just arrived, so I'll be attempting to get it up in the air and operational by Saturday AM. Ice Storm due to hit around these parts tomorrow9ow evening, so we'll see......we'll see.

Irreguardless, by early next week, this venue shall be the first host to some comparison testing, then the same comparisons will be undertaken using a 124" SFLF application w/panny AX100u later that week.
post #29 of 36
Does this mean he likes it?
post #30 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Does this mean he likes it?

It does what it does quite splendidly, within the range of operation it's well suited for. It's unforgiving of mistakes and/or poorly considered lighting issues. It's not for everyone, but those whose abilities and/or gear can aspire them to make one, and who also have a High Definition PJ, should consider it a undertaking well worth the time and expense expended.
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