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HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 6

post #151 of 3769
Excellent review. I have printed it out to use for reference. I agree that (certainly with the limited lumens of the best performing projectors today) High gain screens are the way to go.

Putting aside Tryg's obvious bias towards products he has decided on for his application, I come to a few conclusions regarding the pro's and cons of the High Power vs the Silverstar.

It seems to me, that the High Power is the choice if:

1. You can mount the projector just above your head, or close to that position.
2. You sit no more than 1 or two seats to either side of the center position.
3. You need a screen that is wider than about 9 feet.
4. You need a screen that is a little less expensive.

For the Silverstar:
1. You need to sit more than 1 or 2 seats off axis, or have seating out to the sides.
2. You need to mount the projector more than a couple of feet higher than your head.

Seems like both screens will have nearly equal performance when used as intended. I use a Silverstar in my current theater, and am planning a second theater, that I believe the High Power may be the best choice.
post #152 of 3769
Well, after doing the final measurements last night, with all the new mounting hardware, it looks like the HP may not work for me after all. Amazing what a tape measure tells you. I may have to go with a SilverStar. I asked this question a little earlier, but didn't get an answer. What exactly are you losing with a SilverStar compared to an HP? Is the viewing cone much larger (or is there even much of a cone at all)?
post #153 of 3769
From what I've heard, the SS has a much wider viewing cone, which is good if you want this, but makes it do less well in rejecting ambient light. The surface of the SS is also reported by some to have a 'sheen', which the HP is supposedly free of.
post #154 of 3769
The viewing cone is much larger, and works well for me, since I have seating off to the side in my theater. Ambient light rejection is not an issue in my dedicated theater, but I do watch some shows with the lights on at times.

As far as the sheen is concerned, I have found that if the projector is calibrated properly, and light output it properly matched to the size of the screen, it is a non-issue. I even feel that it is not much of an issue when the projector is too bright for the screen.
post #155 of 3769
you guys see any problems if i put my Z3 off to the side of the screen, it will probably be lens shifted about 30 %, im working with a smaller room and need to have the couch infront of the screen and do not want to ceiling mount.
post #156 of 3769

will the High Power screen be helpful in a smoke-filled room? I host cigar parties
every couple of weeks. 12 to 18 people, dozens of lit cigars... the smoke usually
gets very bright while the projector is turned on. (Panny AX100) One time it got
so bad, nobody could see anything on the screen.... It was like driving with high-
beams on at night, in heavy fog.... we had to ventilate by opening the basement
door in 20-degree weather.... We went through almost 150 cigars that night.

One of the reasons I'm getting the HP is the brightness...... I figured that a
brighter smoke will overpower the bright smoke.... or will it have the opposite
effect?

thanks for any info!

post #157 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post


will the High Power screen be helpful in a smoke-filled room? I host cigar parties
every couple of weeks. 12 to 18 people, dozens of lit cigars... the smoke usually
gets very bright while the projector is turned on. (Panny AX100) One time it got
so bad, nobody could see anything on the screen.... It was like driving with high-
beams on at night, in heavy fog.... we had to ventilate by opening the basement
door in 20-degree weather.... We went through almost 150 cigars that night.

One of the reasons I'm getting the HP is the brightness...... I figured that a
brighter smoke will overpower the bright smoke.... or will it have the opposite
effect?

thanks for any info!



Kathy: There have been a couple of threads by HT owners who smoke that maybe of interest to you. Before the search engine went down, I found one of them:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=698762
post #158 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I asked this question a little earlier, but didn't get an answer. What exactly are you losing with a SilverStar compared to an HP? Is the viewing cone much larger (or is there even much of a cone at all)?

Yesterday I had answered all of your questions and then some and when I clicked submit reply discovered the servers had crashed and the post was lost. Free has pretty much covered your ?'s in his response but I will give it another go.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I'm new to screen research, so I'm open minded on the subject. What about hotspotting, sparkles, consistency of light across the screen surface from different angles with the SilverStar? Is the gain consistent throughout the theater or is it significantly different depending on the seating?

what would be the obvious disadvantages in choosing a SS?

I have pretty much a batcave. Ambient light is not a problem.

One thing I don't care as much for is the look of the fixed wall frames from Da-Lite. I have a very classy Firehawk frame that I'd love to keep. Has anyone attached an HP or SS to an existing frame?

I see absolutely no hotspotting on my 120" diagonal 16:9 SS.

Gain is consistent over the whole screen and there is no perceivable loss in brightness whether I'm sitting front and center in the first row of the theater seats or 60-75 degrees off axis in the extra seating I have along the right wall of my room up front and within 1.3 x SW.

As I move about the room there is no shifting of brightness at all. The viewing cone of the SS is fantastic and probably one of the best of all the high gain screens available. Since you have a bat cave, the HP's performance advantage over the SS in dealing with higher ambient light is of no real value in your situation.

As for aesthetics, when I first got the screen I thought it looked like a piece of art hanging on the wall. I've got the 3.25" black velvet frame and it indeed has a very classy look to it. The ladies definitely like it so it has an excellent WAF. Simply put, it's a great looking screen.

Regarding comments of apparent sheen/sparklies with the SS, I believe it is caused by too many lumens hitting the screen. I know tryg believes you can never have too bright of a screen but I have to disagree. There is such a possibility of having too much of a good thing. When I first got the screen the image was extremely bright. Long viewing sessions would sometime be fatiguing on the eyes.

Something else I noticed was I could occasionally see a very slight sheen on really bright white foamy ocean surf/spray during surfing shows/movies like "Step in to Liquid". I thought this was strange as I couldn't see it on snowy mountain/pasture land scenes, only on ocean surf.

Someone recommended an ND2 filter to cut down the lumens. You have realize that without the filter I was getting the equivalent of around 42 ftls and that is way too high. 12 -16 is the ideal target to shoot for according to SMPTE. I bought the filter and it dropped the ftls to a much more reasonable level of 21 and eliminated the occasional sheen problem for me. YMMV.

The advantages of the HP are:

Lighter on the wallet.

Available in larger screen sizes.

Better ambient light rejection.

Retractable screen option.

The advantages of the SS are:

Flexible PJ placement.

Much wider viewing cone.

Fixed frame screen looks very nice.

____________________________________________________________ _____

Visibility of screen surface. Some see it, some don't.

I have read of complaints about this on the HP as well. So, while not as numerous as with the SS, it's not a forgone conclusion that you won't be bothered by the screen surface of the HP. With that said, I'm more than willing to give the HP the advantage here due to the lesser # of complaints and the fact that I did see it on my screen before installing the ND2 filter.

No matter which screen you are considering, you should view samples in your own room as this will better enable you to make an informed decision.
post #159 of 3769
just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?
post #160 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Yesterday I had answered all of your questions and then some and when I clicked submit reply discovered the servers had crashed and the post was lost. Free has pretty much covered your ?'s in his response but I will give it another go.




I see absolutely no hotspotting on my 120" diagonal 16:9 SS.

Gain is consistent over the whole screen and there is no perceivable loss in brightness whether I'm sitting front and center in the first row of the theater seats or 60-75 degrees off axis in the extra seating I have along the right wall of my room up front and within 1.3 x SW.

As I move about the room there is no shifting of brightness at all. The viewing cone of the SS is fantastic and probably one of the best of all the high gain screens available. Since you have a bat cave, the HP's performance advantage over the SS in dealing with higher ambient light is of no real value in your situation.

As for aesthetics, when I first got the screen I thought it looked like a piece of art hanging on the wall. I've got the 3.25" black velvet frame and it indeed has a very classy look to it. The ladies definitely like it so it has an excellent WAF. Simply put, it's a great looking screen.

Regarding comments of apparent sheen/sparklies with the SS, I believe it is caused by too many lumens hitting the screen. I know tryg believes you can never have too bright of a screen but I have to disagree. There is such a possibility of having too much of a good thing. When I first got the screen the image was extremely bright. Long viewing sessions would sometime be fatiguing on the eyes.

Something else I noticed was I could occasionally see a very slight sheen on really bright white foamy ocean surf/spray during surfing shows/movies like "Step in to Liquid". I thought this was strange as I couldn't see it on snowy mountain/pasture land scenes, only on ocean surf.

Someone recommended an ND2 filter to cut down the lumens. You have realize that without the filter I was getting the equivalent of around 42 ftls and that is way too high. 12 -16 is the ideal target to shoot for according to SMPTE. I bought the filter and it dropped the ftls to a much more reasonable level of 21 and eliminated the occasional sheen problem for me. YMMV.

The advantages of the HP are:

Lighter on the wallet.

Available in larger screen sizes.

Better ambient light rejection.

Retractable screen option.

The advantages of the SS are:

Flexible PJ placement.

Much wider viewing cone.

Fixed frame screen looks very nice.

____________________________________________________________ _____

Visibility of screen surface. Some see it, some don't.

I have read of complaints about this on the HP as well. So, while not as numerous as with the SS, it's not a forgone conclusion that you won't be bothered by the screen surface of the HP. With that said, I'm more than willing to give the HP the advantage here due to the lesser # of complaints and the fact that I did see it on my screen before installing the ND2 filter.

No matter which screen you are considering, you should view samples in your own room as this will better enable you to make an informed decision.

I think AVS was down more yesterday than it was up.

I appreciate the feedback. I thought some more about the positioning of the HP and I think I might be able to make it work. Not ideal, but it might just work. (I wasn't thinking in all three dimensions.)

I started to do some research on the SilverStar by Googling a review. The first thing I came up with was a review by ProjectorCentral. It was less than flattering, in direct comparison to my Firehawk. Has anyone seen this:

Unflattering SilverStar Review

If I had only this review to go on, I wouldn't even consider the SS.

Vutec has yet to respond to my request for a sample. If it's like the HP, it won't tell me much about hotspotting, sparkles, etc. The HP sample was about 6x6". Seeing gain wasn't a problem, but anything else is really tough to discern.
post #161 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?

Contact Tryg or Jason Turk. They can set you up.
post #162 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

just curious. Can you purchase one these screens through the forum? Or do you have to go through a dealer? Any suggestions?

AVS sells Vutec, along with other brands. Click on the "AV Science Product Lines" header at the top right of your screen.
post #163 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I started to do some research on the SilverStar by Googling a review. The first thing I came up with was a review by ProjectorCentral. It was less than flattering, in direct comparison to my Firehawk.

When I was first looking into getting the SS I had to wait until after CES to speak with someone who could answer my questions. Since my office is 3 miles away from their manufacturing facility, I had went over there and found out that all of their reps had went to CES. A lot of these companies do not have a very large support staff and right now due to the holidays and/or getting ready for CES getting info or samples can be tough. Things will be back to normal in a couple of weeks.

As for PC, in my and many other peoples opinions, they are one of the least credible sites for honest, objective and accurate info. Whatever you read there should be taken with many grains of salt.
post #164 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

When I was first looking into getting the SS I had to wait until after CES to speak with someone who could answer my questions. Since my office is 3 miles away from their manufacturing facility, I had went over there and found out that all of their reps had went to CES. A lot of these companies do not have a very large support staff and right now due to the holidays and/or getting ready for CES getting info or samples can be tough. Things will be back to normal in a couple of weeks.

As for PC, in my and many other peoples opinions, they are one of the least credible sites for honest, objective and accurate info. Whatever you read there should be taken with many grains of salt.

After the many good things I've read about the SS, I was taken aback by the extremely negative comments about sharpness, etc. As I said, I've come up with a way I think I can use the HP and get close to optimum gain. I'll lose a seat in the rear viewing area, but I think my main viewing area should be just a foot or so below lens level.
post #165 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

After the many good things I've read about the SS, I was taken aback by the extremely negative comments about sharpness, etc. As I said, I've come up with a way I think I can use the HP and get close to optimum gain. I'll lose a seat in the rear viewing area, but I think my main viewing area should be just a foot or so below lens level.

That's exactly what my setup will probably look like. I am thinking to get an adjustable pole for my Chief RPA-U mount I got for my RS1 on preorder. When I have several friends and need that extra seat, I will lift the projector up by a feet or two.
post #166 of 3769
I'm kind of confused right now.

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!
post #167 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post




I'm kind of confused right now.

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!


You might want to discontinue using the white font color. Not everyone uses the AVS Dark theater mode for reading the forum. If they are using the White Theater mode they won't be able to read your posts.
post #168 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post


I'm kind of confused right now.

How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.

Thanks!


I'd like an answer to this one as well.
post #169 of 3769
I thought it was a secret message for only those who had the invisible ink dcoder.
post #170 of 3769
Joe Clark: I just called them a few minutes ago, talked to the guy for about 20 minutes. I am trying to find a good new screen with my Sony Pearl 1080p projector. Guy was really helpful and stated he would send a piece of material out tomorrow. This is a stiffer material, so not sure if it is easy to just dump in a mailbox, I could be wrong. I was also told that Texas Instruments uses all Vutecs and there will be plenty of people at the CES show that will be displaying these. He also stated that the owner at one time of AVS has a Silverstar, so not sure how good or bad it is, but i won't make any decisions till I see it.
post #171 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I thought it was a secret message for only those who had the invisible ink dcoder.

post #172 of 3769
Joe Clark:

Here is part of the review on the SilverScreen from Vutec. The "Huge" problem I have with there review is they really don't touch on what projectors will benefit with this screen, and to me that would be the most important issue, finding a good match. Now since most not all, new 1080p projectors are lower lumens and the blubs are not as bright as some of the newer 720p projectors, one would think this would be a great match with certain projectors.

Quote from Projection Central:

"If you set up the SilverStar side by side with any other traditional white or gray home theater screen, the SilverStar will look dazzling, and every other screen will look dim. It certainly makes for an impressive demo. But in many important ways it is misleading to present the relative performance of a high gain screen against a low gain screen in this manner. We viewed the SilverStar side by side with the Firehawk, but we also viewed the same material exclusively on each screen in sequence. This latter procedure produces much different results. Viewed with the SilverStar the Firehawk appeared dim, low in contrast and low in color saturation. However standing alone the Firehawk showed very adequate illumination, deeper blacks, better overall contrast, more satisfying color saturation, and superior image sharpness. Furthermore, since it was not overwhelmingly bright the Firehawk was easier to view for hours at a time without developing eye strain and visual fatigue."

To Any Pearl or Ruby Owners out there that have either the SS or the HS, what are your thoughts? My room is about 15 feet across, and about 24 feet long, low ceilings and I am about 15 feet back, looking at a 92" 16x9 fixed screen, projector is about 3-4 feet above my head. No ambient light... I think someone had mentioned that the HS would be better, but I have a sample and I am seeing some difference in brightness but not much from the screen I am using. Easy Vu from Vutec 1.3 gain brightwhite. Thanks for any input!!!!
post #173 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore View Post

I'm kind of confused right now.
How does the Da-Lite High Power compare to Carada's "Brilliant White" screen?
133" or 134" screen size, with Panny AX100 projector, moderately dark room.
Thanks!

AX100 is a very bright projector from what I read. Carada BW screen with a gain of 1.4 should work great for 133" screen.
post #174 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Joe Clark:

Here is part of the review on the SilverScreen from Vutec. The "Huge" problem I have with there review is they really don't touch on what projectors will benefit with this screen, and to me that would be the most important issue, finding a good match. Now since most not all, new 1080p projectors are lower lumens and the blubs are not as bright as some of the newer 720p projectors, one would think this would be a great match with certain projectors.

Quote from Projection Central:

"If you set up the SilverStar side by side with any other traditional white or gray home theater screen, the SilverStar will look dazzling, and every other screen will look dim. It certainly makes for an impressive demo. But in many important ways it is misleading to present the relative performance of a high gain screen against a low gain screen in this manner. We viewed the SilverStar side by side with the Firehawk, but we also viewed the same material exclusively on each screen in sequence. This latter procedure produces much different results. Viewed with the SilverStar the Firehawk appeared dim, low in contrast and low in color saturation. However standing alone the Firehawk showed very adequate illumination, deeper blacks, better overall contrast, more satisfying color saturation, and superior image sharpness. Furthermore, since it was not overwhelmingly bright the Firehawk was easier to view for hours at a time without developing eye strain and visual fatigue."

To Any Pearl or Ruby Owners out there that have either the SS or the HS, what are your thoughts? My room is about 15 feet across, and about 24 feet long, low ceilings and I am about 15 feet back, looking at a 92" 16x9 fixed screen, projector is about 3-4 feet above my head. No ambient light... I think someone had mentioned that the HS would be better, but I have a sample and I am seeing some difference in brightness but not much from the screen I am using. Easy Vu from Vutec 1.3 gain brightwhite. Thanks for any input!!!!

Thanks for the info. I did get the Vutec sample today - a miniagure 4x3 frame with black borders, much larger than the High Power sample I got from Da-Lite. It gave me a good idea about gain and other attributes. I could see a sheen with the SS that I didn't see with the HP. (I thought I saw something on the HP sample, then realized it was just smudges from my handling it so much the last few days.) To my eye, the HP sample looks more natural (no sheen) and the gain appears higher. With the SS I could leave my projector where it is, and the gain would still be good pretty good - definite pluses. OTOH, I really do like the look of the HP better, and the gain seems higher. Also, instructions say you can clean the HP with anything from warm water to Naphtha. The SS looks like it would be possible to permanently damage without too much effort. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think this would be a kid friendly screen. (SS owners correct me if I'm wrong.)

Anyway, I ordered the HP from AVS today, along with some mounting hardware from Chief. Thanks for the Chief tip - they had everything I needed.

Here's going to be my setup in a couple of weeks: Sharp XV-Z20000 1080p DLP projector, 15' from a 110" Da-Lite High Power screen, Cinema Contour frame with Pro-Trim fabric (much like my Stewart Firehawk). The projector will be mounted about a foot above eye level, with the main seats no more than 2' to the left and right. If that's too bright, I'll raise the projector until it isn't.

With this configuration, I'll be able to keep the Sharp in High Contrast mode (over 7500:1).
post #175 of 3769
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get the best price on a Da-lite High power screen in Canada. Also, I have an Infocus IN76 PJ, anyone else here have a IN76 with a High Power screen? If so, how do they go together?

Thanks

Milit
post #176 of 3769
Congratulations Joe,

It sounds like you'll soon have one very nice setup. Enjoy!
post #177 of 3769
Congrads Joe: I just got my samples from Da-Lite yesterday comparing the 3 samples they gave me tonight and I must say I still like the screen I have better.. Using a VuTec 1.3 gain Brite White and it looks better to my eye of course. The 3 samples I got from DA-Lite was HP, which was very close to what I have, but seemed a tad darker. The High Contrast Cinema Vision had way too much sheen and I noticed it right away and the DA-MAT was way too dark... If I could find a slightly higher gain Brite White screen I think it would fit my bill with the Pearl.

Joe: also I don't think the sheen would be an issue if your sitting back far enough, up close yes you can see it but if you step back few feet it is hard to pick that up.

milit: Try the local guys on here, stills some of the best pricing I have seen so far. There a couple hundred dollars less than my local dealer.

Looks like this screen might serve me well......

http://www.videoessentials.com/notew...tionscreen.php

hmmmm or this one?

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/Ultramatte150.html
post #178 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Congrads Joe: I just got my samples from Da-Lite yesterday comparing the 3 samples they gave me tonight and I must say I still like the screen I have better.. Using a VuTec 1.3 gain Brite White and it looks better to my eye of course. The 3 samples I got from DA-Lite was HP, which was very close to what I have, but seemed a tad darker. The High Contrast Cinema Vision had way too much sheen and I noticed it right away and the DA-MAT was way too dark... If I could find a slightly higher gain Brite White screen I think it would fit my bill with the Pearl.

Joe: also I don't think the sheen would be an issue if your sitting back far enough, up close yes you can see it but if you step back few feet it is hard to pick that up.

milit: Try the local guys on here, stills some of the best pricing I have seen so far. There a couple hundred dollars less than my local dealer.

Looks like this screen might serve me well......

http://www.videoessentials.com/notew...tionscreen.php

hmmmm or this one?

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/Ultramatte150.html

Funny what different perceptions we have of screens than the numbers would seem to indicate. Depending on my position, the SS seemed in brightness the same as my Firehawk (1.3 gain) to maybe twice as bright. Definitely an improvement, but the sheen bothered me from my normal seating position (about 12'). The HP sample seemed in brightness either the same as the Firehawk (from off axis) to night and day difference. And no sheen that I could tell. Again, though, they provided a very small sample. Still, I didn't see a sheen from anywhere in my seating area. I put the HP and the SS side by side and the difference was dramatic. The HP seemed much brighter. Of course, the angles (angular reflective vs. retro-reflective) make a huge difference in any side by side with these two, but even taking that into account, the HP definitely seemed to have a significant edge in brightness.

Speaking of sheen, I realize after viewing with the HP sample that it has a significant edge over the Firehawk in terms of sheen/sparkles. Of course, I couldn't get any sort of idea about screen uniformity across the entire surface, but the Firehawk definitely falls off in brightness from one edge to the other. And I get color shifts with the Firehawk. As I view text on AVS (yellow on black), I notice how text on the right side of the screen (I sit more on the left) loses color saturation significantly. I do have the first generation Firehawk fabric. It was just being introduced by Stewart when I got my first digital projector. Anyway, from what I've read here, uniformity with the HP ought to be better than with my current screen.

Thanks to everyone here. The advice and tips I've gotten have been extremely helpful. I'll post back after I spend more quality time with the new screen. I still have a few issues, non-screen related, to deal with before my new system is optimized.
post #179 of 3769
Well I got my samples yesterday and must say i was impressed with the high power even with my sanyo plv-z3 off to the side with the lens shift it still looked very good all the way at the other angle, and near the projector is amazing, definitely blows the greywolf out of the water, no sparklies like i saw on the video spectra sample..only question now is, do i get the model b or c, i was going to get a model b deluxe till i found out you cant flush mount and then was thinking the model c, but i probably raised my screen 2 times in a year with my grey wolf, so i think i might just go with the model B, since this sucker wont be raised in 12 months anyways.
post #180 of 3769
Joe,

This may be a silly ? but was the SS sample oriented correctly? Before I bought my screen I got a sample from Vutec and it was in a 16:9 format. On the back were directoinal arrows to make sure that it was properly positioned for testing. I'm sure you had it correct but out of curiosity would you try turning the sample on it's side and describe what it looks like. Thanks.
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