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HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 110

post #3271 of 3769
Yah, I know what happened, I don't hold it against anyone though, they just got PO'd at my aggressive arguments to buy the HP.

The only reason I was even aggressively arguing the HP screen was to BALANCE and COUNTER all these people in the forums that were trying to sell people $2,000 screens with $1,000 projectors, hence telling them that it is better to have a cheap projector with a super-expensive screen instead of the other way around (This is totally false).

The other more important point being we don't even know what kind of screens we need for projectors in 2-3 years with all the changes coming (LED, LCOS, 3D, etc...). So why buy a screen for so many years of use when a cheaper alternative is out there, and wait for the market to calm down. I can understand it for people that have the money to spend, but if your buying a sub 2k projector, you probalby don't have the money to spend.

The HP certainly is a winner in many cases, but there is no BEST at everything, but it does many things very well.
post #3272 of 3769
i have better suggestions for u!!
u wl love...
post #3273 of 3769
This little spat was nothing compared to the time I pointed out that some of the Epsons had faulty lamps, at least one entire thread was deleted due to the bad nature of the posts.
People take this stuff so seriously, relax people!
On that relentless lamp argument I was ironically vindicated by Epson admitting the lamps had issues. So few people grasped the concept of marginal and joint probability when reading posts about failures, instead they went by polls. Anyways, not wanting to drag all this up again, just pointing out that people are quick to go on the attack without logically thinking through the arguments. This forum is a trip sometimes.
post #3274 of 3769
Queston for you HP owners about how well the HP reduces reflections off of a white ceiling and light colored walls.

Have you seen that Black Diamond video on the Screen Inovations site where they are showing an image on a standard white screen and the light is really reflecting strongly off of the ceiling and then they start raising the white screen revealing the BD screen behind it and you can see the ceiling reflections redcuing until the white screen is totally gone and so are the reflections............the room was very dark, even with a white ceiling.

My question is how close to a BD screen does the HP screen come in reducing reflections, both ceiling and walls?

I will most likely will have to go with the HP 2.4 because the 2.8 is not available anymore and the 2.4 will give me better off-axis gain, however I would like to hear about both screens.

Thanks,
Greg
post #3275 of 3769
I saw the BD at BB before Christmas. There will be more light reflected from the HP than the BD. Then again the image will be 2x brighter than the image on the BD. I was not impressed with the over all image, yes the black sere blacker but a dark room the image was darker as well.. none of the POP we all love with the HP. If you search for airscapes in the BD thread I posted my thoughts after viewing it.
post #3276 of 3769
Yup, it's a catch 22 when you need a bright image but have a white ceiling or white walls, because no matter what you do, blacks will never be as good with that reflection.

You can lower the screen closer to the floor, or watch the image a little darker than normal and it helps by reducing the backwashed light overall in the room to acheive better blacks, but then you get that DIM looking picture, and in retrospect it's better just to watch the brighter picture with the worsened black levels.
post #3277 of 3769
Doug and Coderguy, thanks for the reply.

I should try to get a large sample of the HP 2.4, if possible and borrow our business projector from work and experiment to see what the effect is. I could then temporarily hang some black material up to see the effects of a completely dark room. It would be an interesting experiment.

Thanks again,
Greg
post #3278 of 3769
Well, thanks for Tryg for starting this thread, and others such as Claus and coderguy, I'm ecstatic w/ my transition from HCCV to the HP 2.8.

Watched parts of Casino Royale, Sound of Music, Golden Compass and Despicable Me today, it was a totally different experience. My JVC w/ 600 hours looked almost like a new bulb; may need to get a filter or tone down the brightness.

Cheers.
post #3279 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post

Doug and Coderguy, thanks for the reply.

I should try to get a large sample of the HP 2.4, if possible and borrow our business projector from work and experiment to see what the effect is. I could then temporarily hang some black material up to see the effects of a completely dark room. It would be an interesting experiment.

Thanks again,
Greg

There is no screen material that will fully solve your light sidewall/ceiling problem, but the High Power will go a long way in minimizing it. Black walls make a HUGE difference if you have a good high contrast projector. You may not notice as much of a difference with a low contrast business projector.
post #3280 of 3769
I've made many changes in my home theater over the years, but no one single thing has made a bigger difference than darkening the room. My eyes were always fighting with the light walls, ceiling and floor. It took considerable effort to do it, but there's no way I'd ever go back.
post #3281 of 3769
Yah, people definitely underestimate how much the room affects the image. That's why so many people upgrade their projectors and only notice small differences. If your black levels are starting too high, and even though blacks do not affect the TOTAL ON/Off contrast ratio, the perception of the blacks being too bright has a big negative effect.

But so many of us are stuck with the rooms we have and can't paint them. Getting an HP screen to redirect some of the light away from the ceiling, dropping the screen lower to the floor, throwing a dark rug over the carpet in front, and curtaining the sidewalls helps tremendously, but even then you're only at 80% bat-cave status with a white ceiling.
post #3282 of 3769
Hi
Im new to the projector, and I have an odd question. I just bought a MANUAL PULL DOWN 106" HP 2.8 screen. I have difficult time retract the screen... so I was thinking about converting the screen into motorized (didnt have $ to buy the motorized version) ... Is it possible?? is it doable with minor mod?? have any one done this before? or have any information, links of how to do it?? and what and where can I buy the parts?? I chatted with da-lite and ofcourse their answer is no.
Thanks in advance....
post #3283 of 3769
All sorts of tricks you can do to make room darker. You do not need to paint a room black. A lot of other dark colors will be just as good as black with lights down. We use moss green, flat paint on screen wall and roof, and did a faux finish paint on walls. There is this old way of thinking that all ceilings have to be painted white in every room.....why I do not know, but we started painting ceilings different colors a few years back and would never go back to white now.

Here's mine partially finished, perm wall dalite with hp 2.4, Epson 8350, just waiting on mono price order to tidy up some wires and stuff
LL
post #3284 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

We use moss green...

Hey I like your room!

post #3285 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, people definitely underestimate how much the room affects the image. That's why so many people upgrade their projectors and only notice small differences. If your black levels are starting too high, and even though blacks do not affect the TOTAL ON/Off contrast ratio, the perception of the blacks being too bright has a big negative effect.

But so many of us are stuck with the rooms we have and can't paint them. Getting an HP screen to redirect some of the light away from the ceiling, dropping the screen lower to the floor, throwing a dark rug over the carpet in front, and curtaining the sidewalls helps tremendously, but even then you're only at 80% bat-cave status with a white ceiling.

I have found improvement in the overall viewing experience even going from dark navy blue to flat black in my HT and then going from flat black to black velvet (which is on my sidewalls, part of the ceiling and first 9' of the floor) was even better than flat black paint. The closer you can get to an all flat black room, the better the viewing experience will be IMHO from my experiments. Obviously this is not practical though for most, but if you can do it, it will give you the best PQ/video performance.
post #3286 of 3769
Toe-would you mind sharing what method you used to get the velvet in there? Curtains/staples/frames? Thanks.
post #3287 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jholzbauer View Post

Toe-would you mind sharing what method you used to get the velvet in there? Curtains/staples/frames? Thanks.

I used flat black over sized thumb tacks..........it looks better then it sounds, but I dont have the WAF to deal with which could very well shut this down

The velvet on my floor is just layed out and not ideal..........at some point, I would love to get black carpet, but until then this works fine (performance wise, the black velvet would be as good or better vs black carpet)..............It probably goes without saying that aesthetics were not my top priority when I decided to do this, but from a pure performance standpoint, it is killer.
post #3288 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by nguyenphananh View Post

Hi
Im new to the projector, and I have an odd question. I just bought a MANUAL PULL DOWN 106" HP 2.8 screen. I have difficult time retract the screen... so I was thinking about converting the screen into motorized (didnt have $ to buy the motorized version) ... Is it possible??

No way is that feasible, it would cost more than just buying it outright. Most likely your problem is the mounting, either you have a slight angle (or not enough of an angle) or it is too close to the wall, or something. I would suggest you take the screen down and see if it retracts normally on the floor, if it does, you need to mount it differently so that it can retract easier.
post #3289 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

No way is that feasible, it would cost more than just buying it outright. Most likely your problem is the mounting, either you have a slight angle (or not enough of an angle) or it is too close to the wall, or something. I would suggest you take the screen down and see if it retracts normally on the floor, if it does, you need to mount it differently so that it can retract easier.

The retraction is working fine. Just that Im not getting use to it yet. I took me many trieds to get the screen all the way up. guest Im not very patient... I have the same problem with my bro's screen too. The motorized version is twice the price of the manual's. I wish I can make it motorzied. I consider myself handy, and willingly to play with it.... just dont want to screw up... this thing is expensive....
post #3290 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by nguyenphananh View Post

I consider myself handy, and willingly to play with it.... just dont want to screw up... this thing is expensive....

It would take more than being handy to do something like that, and attempting it would screw it up.
post #3291 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Yah, people definitely underestimate how much the room affects the image. That's why so many people upgrade their projectors and only notice small differences. If your black levels are starting too high, and even though blacks do not affect the TOTAL ON/Off contrast ratio, the perception of the blacks being too bright has a big negative effect.

But so many of us are stuck with the rooms we have and can't paint them. Getting an HP screen to redirect some of the light away from the ceiling, dropping the screen lower to the floor, throwing a dark rug over the carpet in front, and curtaining the sidewalls helps tremendously, but even then you're only at 80% bat-cave status with a white ceiling.

I'm thinking about getting the AE4000 projector, mainly for its lens memory, but it is also a reason not to spend more for a JVC if I can't provide a good room to take advantage of the increased black level and contrast. I am not as concerned with the walls, as we can place artwork to help combat reflections, as do our darkish fabric shades.
I'm slowly working on the wife..........but, she really loves her white ceiling. This is a southwestern themed room, so I think earthy tones would do well on the ceiling........still wouldn't go very dark, but anything would be an improvement.

Thanks for all of the advice,
Greg
post #3292 of 3769
Ok, so I am ready to buy the 2.4 gain HP screen at 78 x 139 (159") Da-Lite Model C to replace my Elite Maxwhite 1.1 gain 150" screen which I have had since 2006. So this would be a 9" increase in size as well as the gain increase.

This is my set-up:

Room is the finished basement, so zero light comes in, windows are completely covered. Carpet is a darker burgandy/orange, ceiling is a mid to mid-light oak and front walls are cement and painted a dark beige with a hint of orange. Same color with the left wall, the right wall has all my Blu-rays and DVD's of course many of those spines are white. The rest of the wall I have covered in black frabric from the projector to the screen (on the right side).

The room is big enough that I can have pretty much any throw distance. Right now I have the projector about 14.4 feet back from the exact center of the screen (per JVC's specs) on a bedroom dresser about 1 to 1.5 feet above head height right in back of the middle seat. There are 4 seats, mine of course is directly in the center, then the one to the right and first left are about 3 feet from the screen center and the 4th seat (the left side is a reclining loveseat 2-seater) is about 6 feet to the left (facing) of the center. The person on that far left would still have screen directly in front of them, though it is near the left end. This is the seat that is used the least.

I am choosing to go again with a manual pulldown as I might be moving in the next couple of years and don't know what size I will be able to use so want to be able to be able to pull it up just in case.

My questions are:

1. Will the person on that very left see a less bright screen on the opposite side (right half of the screen) since he is 6 feet to the left of the center? I have read that with the HP just moving your head can change it and as few people have posted this bothers them. If that person will have less light, will it at least be equal to what my 1.1 gain was from that fat left seat?

2. Is it noticeable for anyone (in terms of brightness) if they move their heads, or is the image pretty stable. Remember I am used to a maxwhite 1.1 which is pretty close to the same all the way across.

3. Is this the optimum set-up for my new JVC RS-50 3D projector?

4. I have a few slight waves in my current screen because of its size, they developed over the first 3-4 months I had it, they never got worse. Are waves more noticeable on a high power screen? I have actually taped the sides of my current model back to the wall which has pretty much gotten rid of the waves. Are they more likely/less likely to develop with the HP screen?

5. I have left my current screen pulled down since day 1, is it okay to do this or should I retract it every time I am done using it?

Any info would be very helpful, I'm a bit nervous about this as I consider my current screen to look great, but I am hearing that as the JVC bulb ages, the brightness goes down and the 3D will be darker. I have found a great price on this so this is a great time to do it.

Thanks for all your help throughout my process, this thread has been so helpful.
post #3293 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Ok, so I am ready to buy the 2.4 gain HP screen at 78 x 139 (159") Da-Lite Model C to replace my Elite Maxwhite 1.1 gain 150" screen which I have had since 2006. So this would be a 9" increase in size as well as the gain increase.

This is my set-up:

Room is the finished basement, so zero light comes in, windows are completely covered. Carpet is a darker burgandy/orange, ceiling is a mid to mid-light oak and front walls are cement and painted a dark beige with a hint of orange. Same color with the left wall, the right wall has all my Blu-rays and DVD's of course many of those spines are white. The rest of the wall I have covered in black frabric from the projector to the screen (on the right side).

The room is big enough that I can have pretty much any throw distance. Right now I have the projector about 14.4 feet back from the exact center of the screen (per JVC's specs) on a bedroom dresser about 1 to 1.5 feet above head height right in back of the middle seat. There are 4 seats, mine of course is directly in the center, then the one to the right and first left are about 3 feet from the screen center and the 4th seat (the left side is a reclining loveseat 2-seater) is about 6 feet to the left (facing) of the center. The person on that far left would still have screen directly in front of them, though it is near the left end. This is the seat that is used the least.

I am choosing to go again with a manual pulldown as I might be moving in the next couple of years and don't know what size I will be able to use so want to be able to be able to pull it up just in case.

My questions are:

1. Will the person on that very left see a less bright screen on the opposite side (right half of the screen) since he is 6 feet to the left of the center? I have read that with the HP just moving your head can change it and as few people have posted this bothers them. If that person will have less light, will it at least be equal to what my 1.1 gain was from that fat left seat?

No the image will look great just not quite a bright as your seat. My wife can not tell the difference.

2. Is it noticeable for anyone (in terms of brightness) if they move their heads, or is the image pretty stable. Remember I am used to a maxwhite 1.1 which is pretty close to the same all the way across.
Not unless they are a inspector gadget or a giraffe

3. Is this the optimum set-up for my new JVC RS-50 3D projector?
If you can get the projector closer to eye level you wil get more gain but 18" should work out way better than what you had!

4. I have a few slight waves in my current screen because of its size, they developed over the first 3-4 months I had it, they never got worse. Are waves more noticeable on a high power screen? I have actually taped the sides of my current model back to the wall which has pretty much gotten rid of the waves. Are they more likely/less likely to develop with the HP screen?
Wave can be caused by the roller sagging so I would roll it up when not in use (stays cleaner that way to) HP fabric does not stretch so less likely to get wave unless the roller sags

5. I have left my current screen pulled down since day 1, is it okay to do this or should I retract it every time I am done using it?

Any info would be very helpful, I'm a bit nervous about this as I consider my current screen to look great, but I am hearing that as the JVC bulb ages, the brightness goes down and the 3D will be darker. I have found a great price on this so this is a great time to do it.

Thanks for all your help throughout my process, this thread has been so helpful.

See above in red
post #3294 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory View Post

I'm thinking about getting the AE4000 projector, mainly for its lens memory, but it is also a reason not to spend more for a JVC if I can't provide a good room to take advantage of the increased black level and contrast. I am not as concerned with the walls, as we can place artwork to help combat reflections, as do our darkish fabric shades.
I'm slowly working on the wife..........but, she really loves her white ceiling. This is a southwestern themed room, so I think earthy tones would do well on the ceiling........still wouldn't go very dark, but anything would be an improvement.

Thanks for all of the advice,
Greg

I haven't tested a JVC compared to a diferent projector with a full bat cave except the ceiling, but the JVC should still look far better and do far darker blacks.

I'd correct myself and say that if your using an HP relatively low to the floor (or you have high ceilings) and everything in the room is dark except the ceiling, you'd probably be around 90% bat cave status or so, but remember ANSI contrast has a huge effect to a point, but then the returns are dimenshing. The JVC is also a bit different of a case because it does not use an IRIS to acheive those blacks, so yah the JVC still wins. I think actually most people even without a bat cave noticed the JVC did much better, and it makes since because On/Off contrast isn't directly affected by brightness of the room (only perceivably of the starting black level range).

Mostly it's people upgrading to real bright projectors and thinking they lost all their black levels because of the HP screen, which is just a matter of room and the current calibration of the projector to the given screen.
post #3295 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I haven't tested a JVC compared to a diferent projector with a full bat cave except the ceiling, but the JVC should still look far better and do far darker blacks.

I'd correct myself and say that if your using an HP relatively low to the floor (or you have high ceilings) and everything in the room is dark except the ceiling, you'd probably be around 90% bat cave status or so, but remember ANSI contrast has a huge effect to a point, but then the returns are dimenshing. The JVC is also a bit different of a case because it does not use an IRIS to acheive those blacks, so yah the JVC still wins. I think actually most people even without a bat cave noticed the JVC did much better.

Mostly it's people upgrading to real bright projectors and thinking they lost all their black levels because of the HP screen, which is just a matter of room and the current calibration of the projector to the given screen.

The screen will be 16" away from the ceiling, so not so far away. If I can lower the center channel speaker I can gain a little more room, but not too much. The room has a standard 8' ceiling.

Good news for the JVC, then. If I can only convince myself that I can live without the lens memory.

Thanks,
Greg
post #3296 of 3769
Thinking of getting a model b high power, manual pulldown 16x9. Please advise on the following:

The standard black drop is two feet. In my current home I need only a bit over one foot, but I want to buy two feet in case I move flat and can then use it there. Does the model b allow me to partially pull the screen down so that the black drop is only extended by one feet?

How simple is it for a non professional installer to fix the screen onto the wall? Is there any other types of installation work to get the fabric onto the rollers for example?

I have a panasonic pt-ae4000u, shooting a 88" diagonal from 12 feet away. It's bright enough at night but washed out at daytime. Shooting onto a white wall.

Also, I have ambient light aplenty. A large window behind my back, a small window on left and right wall (when facing screen). Finding the picture washed out in daytime even on dynamic mode.

Will the 2.4 gain help a lot? I need a visible improvement for me to buy the screen.

If I buy a 16x9 screen will the 2.35:1 look awful or will anything be better than a white wall as a screen?

Thx in advance.... Still a noob but really really enjoying the experience so far!
post #3297 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

Thinking of getting a model b high power, manual pulldown 16x9. Please advise on the following:

The standard black drop is two feet. In my current home I need only a bit over one foot, but I want to buy two feet in case I move flat and can then use it there. Does the model b allow me to partially pull the screen down so that the black drop is only extended by one feet?
No idea, call Dalite Customer Service

How simple is it for a non professional installer to fix the screen onto the wall? Is there any other types of installation work to get the fabric onto the rollers for example?
Depends on your skills, would you try and hang a large mirror or flat panel TV? Would you be comfortable finding the studs in the wall and or using drywall anchors?

I have a panasonic pt-ae4000u, shooting a 88" diagonal from 12 feet away. It's bright enough at night but washed out at daytime. Shooting onto a white wall.
No projector and or screen will work in daylight, you need to invest in a room darkening shades/curtains. Keep in mind, you dark areas of the image will only be a dark as your screen is with no image projected. The screen does not make light nor is it black when nothing is projected like a TV screen is..

Also, I have ambient light aplenty. A large window behind my back, a small window on left and right wall (when facing screen). Finding the picture washed out in daytime even on dynamic mode.

Same as above, cover the windows...

Will the 2.4 gain help a lot? I need a visible improvement for me to buy the screen.
No it will not help for the amount of light you are talking about. It will look a LOT better at night.

If I buy a 16x9 screen will the 2.35:1 look awful or will anything be better than a white wall as a screen?
It will look the same as 16x9 but with black bars that may or may not bother you.

Thx in advance.... Still a noob but really really enjoying the experience so far!

See above
post #3298 of 3769
Hi. I have a JVC HD750 (RS20) in a bat cave (black walls and ceiling, black curtains, the lot). I presently project onto 110" diagonal 1.0 gain fixed fram screen. But with 650 hours on the lamp I do find myself wishing it had a few more lumens for more impact. Also, coming from DLP I find myself hankering after extra sharpness. The possibility of purchasing a 100" Da-Lite Hi Gain manual screen has come up - for a great price. I wonder whether people think that this would help in the areas I ask about. Would I lose much in terms of black levels? I could cut the fabric out, reduce the size of my present frame, and attach it to it. Very keen to hear your views asap as I have to make a snap decision on this. Thanks.
post #3299 of 3769
Thanks airscapes, advice much appreciated!
post #3300 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post


How is that screen mounted? I thought it was a pulldown but I don't see a housing. I can't make it out.
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