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HIGH POWER a Review! Part 1 - Page 15

post #421 of 3769
So anyone switch from a graywolf to a HP and care to give a comparison?
post #422 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

As of today, the wrinkles are still there in the High Power. This is why I don't like pull downs.

What impact do they have on the image when you're watching a program?
post #423 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Millerwill, I am using the Sharp 20K, and I am reasonably certain, that it is probably the Sharpest 1080P currently available. When I get a chance, I plan to spend some time experimenting with the different image sizes, and viewing the Silverstar, to see if it is the texture of the Silverstar that gives a false sense of sharpness, or if it is the increse of size in the new High Power that is responsible for my perception of a slight softening of the image.

I would be very interested in how you perceive the sharpness to change as you change the image size. I presume you could just zoom down to a smaller image on your large screen; not good, of course, for long term use, but you would certainly see if the sharpness is noticeably changed. Tx, Bill
post #424 of 3769
For you guys that have a lot of seats falling outside the optimum viewing cone of the hi-power may start researching the Draper M2500 screen material. It's kinda been hit and miss in the past as to quality control but it seems that if the reviewer gets a good one they seem to love it. It does yield a gain of around 2.0 or so and it's angular reflective so it has a wider viewing cone.

Drapers tend to be a bit pricier than comperable Da-Lites from what I've seen...but they're still much more affordable than the Stewarts etc.

I was considering the M2500 but all the quality control issues back last summer when I was screen shopping turned me off. From what I've been able to gather recently about this screen is draper addressed the issue and made some changes. It used to have a gain of around 2.5(hence m2500 name) but the new "formula" has less gain(now 2.0) but is supposed to be much more consistant in quality...they kept the m2500 name however.
post #425 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

What impact do they have on the image when you're watching a program?

I am not sure yet. I will spend more time with this tonight, and also try shrinking the image to see if the percieved sharpness is greater. There is a fair amount of wrinkling though, and I think, for those of us who are perfectionists, this material requires a fixed screen.
post #426 of 3769
I will probably order next week.
And based on location, I really do prefer a pull-down.

But I'm not ruling out fixed frame.

Are there any fixed frame hi power designs comparable to the Model C pulldown? I'm looking at 119".
post #427 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockokma View Post

only comes in a custom made 133"

Someones given you bad info.
post #428 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Someones given you bad info.

I think he meant that only the SS can be obtained at 133" by a custom order. At the CES I did ask the Vutec guys at their both why they didn't offrer a SS in something larger than 120" diag, and they said that they could do something larger on a special order. And I'll bet it would be pricey.
post #429 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I think he meant that only the SS can be obtained at 133" by a custom order. At the CES I did ask the Vutec guys at their both why they didn't offrer a SS in something larger than 120" diag, and they said that they could do something larger on a special order. And I'll bet it would be pricey.

I think I understand now. The SS can be ordered in a 119" wide 2.35:1 AR and the cost is actually slightly less than the 120" 16:9 AR since the total screen area is about 1 square ft smaller. At least that's how it was when I ordered mine a couple of years ago. Just trying to help.

BTW, how was Vutec's CES setup? I don't remember anyone mentioning what they thought of their demo.
post #430 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I am not sure yet. I will spend more time with this tonight, and also try shrinking the image to see if the percieved sharpness is greater. There is a fair amount of wrinkling though, and I think, for those of us who are perfectionists, this material requires a fixed screen.

My friend is waiting on word about how well the HP pull down works. Do you have any more impressions to share? I've read other posts which say that small waves don't impact the image, because they disappear when the projector comes on. Any truth to that?
post #431 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My friend is waiting on word about how well the HP pull down works. Do you have any more impressions to share? I've read other posts which say that small waves don't impact the image, because they disappear when the projector comes on. Any truth to that?

I spent some time tonight, paying attention to the waves in the screen, and honestly, I couldn't see them. I really was looking hard trying to find a defect, but I was finding the image just about perfect. I think the waves are visible to me, when the overhead lights are on in the theater, shining down on the screen creates shadows, where the waves are, but when the projector is shining at the screen the waves dissapear.

I think that it does look a bit softer, just a hair, because all of the pixels are about 25% larger. Even with a 1080p projector, the bigger the image gets, the resolution is compromised.

I also spent time looking in bright white scenes, and was noticing how clean the image looked. I was used to seeing the slight sparkly sheen of the Silverstar, and this just looks cleaner, and brighter.

One interesting thing I have noticed, is that the High Power seems to make whites much whiter, while the overall brightness of the image is slightly brighter. There is something about the white parts of the image, that just seem to gain so much more from this screen material.

Overall, I like this screen and think it is a keeper.
post #432 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I spent some time tonight, paying attention to the waves in the screen, and honestly, I couldn't see them. I really was looking hard trying to find a defect, but I was finding the image just about perfect. I think the waves are visible to me, when the overhead lights are on in the theater, shining down on the screen creates shadows, where the waves are, but when the projector is shining at the screen the waves dissapear.

I think that it does look a bit softer, just a hair, because all of the pixels are about 25% larger. Even with a 1080p projector, the bigger the image gets, the resolution is compromised.

I also spent time looking in bright white scenes, and was noticing how clean the image looked. I was used to seeing the slight sparkly sheen of the Silverstar, and this just looks cleaner, and brighter.

One interesting thing I have noticed, is that the High Power seems to make whites much whiter, while the overall brightness of the image is slightly brighter. There is something about the white parts of the image, that just seem to gain so much more from this screen material.

Overall, I like this screen and think it is a keeper.

That's good news about the waves. I'd read that the HP surface solved the problem, but it's good to hear you confirm it. I have a friend who would have had to come up with another solution if the pull down wouldn't work - maybe a movable frame of some sort.

I like the whites of the HP, too. And my old Firehawk had a snowy sheen that I had grown accustomed to, but which did call attention to itself from time to time. That's gone with the HP. The HP and the Sharp are letting me experience much of the archived programming I have in a whole new way.
post #433 of 3769
I have the new SIM2 single chip HD. My theater is 'very controlled' light - virtually totally dark when needed. Thoughts on the best screen for 110" hor. space? I'm not sure I really need the gain of some of the screens discussed here. Isn't there a compromise in quality image with the higher gain?
post #434 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad-man View Post

I have the new SIM2 single chip HD. My theater is 'very controlled' light - virtually totally dark when needed. Thoughts on the best screen for 110" hor. space? I'm not sure I really need the gain of some of the screens discussed here. Isn't there a compromise in quality image with the higher gain?

The primary drawback to the Da-Lite high power discussed in this thread is that it has a relatively narrow viewing cone due to it being retro reflective(light bounces back to it's source). Outside of that the HP is a wonderful screen imo and if your inside the viewing cone (sweet spot) the image is hard to beat.

There are some high gain screens that aren't really suited to high quality video...such as glass beaded screens. Those type screens yield a lot of gain but are best left to board/conference rooms for showing spread sheets and power point presentations as they introduce far too many sparklies, hot spots, etc.

You also have the exotic high $$$ "one piece" high gain/high contrast" screens like the silver star and vizage. They are nice screens but they can add a bit of sheen/texture from what I've seen in samples and heard from users. But they don't have the viewing cone restirctions like the Da-Lite does.

If your pj has dual lamp power modes, one of the nice thing about using a higher gain screen(even with brighter pj's) is you can run you pj in low lamp mode which extends bulb life and still get a bright punchy image. Then as the bulb ages and gets too dim on low, you can switch the pj over to the high lamp mode to compensate.

There's a lot of good info in this thread...if your looking at buying the Da-Lite I'd definitely go back and read this thread from the beginning(if you haven't already done so). There also many other threads on the hp here at avs. It's probably the most discussed screen material here so there's tons of info on it.
post #435 of 3769
How well will the High Power screen reject the ambient light from a lit fireplace that is off to the side of the room, at about 55 degrees from the center of the screen?
post #436 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

How well will the High Power screen reject the ambient light from a lit fireplace that is off to the side of the room, at about 55 degrees from the center of the screen?

At that angle it should reject the light very well. If you look in the gallery at my theater you'll see I have several wall sconces and the hp does a very good job of rejecting them.

With my previous painted screens I couldn't have much light at all in the theater or it would wash out the image. With the hp I can run the lights at a very comfortable level. This in nice during football games etc. so everyone can eat snacks etc. and actually see what they are eating yet the image is still very good.

Like I metioned in an earlier post...the lights that will do the most "damage" to the image will come from the wall/direction opposite the screen.
post #437 of 3769
Here is my High Power screen install. It's a 126" perm-wall 2.37:1 screen. I used one of these heavy duty picture hanger / wall cleats to mount it into the dry wall instead of making holes for the entire screen perimeter. Pretty simple, it screwed in easy to the frame then I just a used couple of the included screws to mount it to the wall. I now have the flexibility of shifting the screen 5-10" left or right, and I can take it down with ease if need be.

I'm still waiting on my projector, but my initial impression is that you can really see the gain on this puppy. It's uniform too even being that wide, so it has the same brightness from end to end. I'll update with comments once my projector arrives about the viewing cone and how it looks.





ps. Ascend rocks my house...
post #438 of 3769
Beautiful screen! I wish I had the room for a wider/bigger screen. You should be very happy with the gain if you stay in the cone. I am no more than about 1 1/2 feet from the lens (to my eye) in any direction for the main and secondary seating areas. Wait'll you see that image when you get your projector!
post #439 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

I'm still waiting on my projector, but my initial impression is that you can really see the gain on this puppy. It's uniform too even being that wide, so it has the same brightness from end to end. I'll update with comments once my projector arrives about the viewing cone and how it looks.

Great pics.
Are you thinking of painting that back wall darker?

Also - great review of the screen - without a projector no less! I'm getting excited. Hope to order my HP within the next 1-3 days.
post #440 of 3769
Jagercola: BEAUTIFUL looking screen! Re the mounting: did you attach this mount only to the top horizontal frame tube? Are the sides and bottom attached in any way? Tx, Bill
post #441 of 3769
Yup, the mount is attached the to the top horizontal frame tube in the middle. Nothing on the sides or bottom. I got the idea from the laminate screen thread. I was going to build a 116" laminate screen and had the hanger from that. It turned out that it was actually cheaper to shelf/rack mount my projector and buy a HP screen then to have an electrician come to do the wire work, get a mount, and build a DIY screen. Further my screen is bigger 116" ->126" and brighter with the gain 1.3 -> ~2.5!
post #442 of 3769
I can attest to the strength of the mounts Jagercola used for his screen. I bought some similar mounts from Lowes last year to mount my 80lbs diy rear center speakers. It's surprising just how sturdy those thin metal pieces are.
post #443 of 3769
[quote=Jagercola]


This is an idea worthy copying. The perm-wall screen, I've read it is a challenge to snap the screen on, so I'm assuming it carries some tension? Was that a problem, assemblying it on the floor then lifting to hang? Or did you attach the screen after mounting to the wall?
post #444 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagercola View Post

I'm still waiting on my projector, but my initial impression is that you can really see the gain on this puppy. It's uniform too even being that wide, so it has the same brightness from end to end.

The high powers gain prevent it from being uniform in brightness from side to side but the brain is fooled because the shift is gradual. Compare directly the center of the screen to the edges and things become a little more telling.

Here's a shot of your screen with a center reference square copied and pasted to other locations of the screen.
LL
post #445 of 3769
Thread Starter 
Try doing that with an angular reflective screen with some gain.
post #446 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Try doing that with an angular reflective screen with some gain.

I'd love to, which one would you like to send me ? Actually, I've done this with a few gained angular reflective screens with similar results.

The purpose of the post was to counter ascertions that gained screens are uniform in brightness from side to side which, as you know, is not entirely correct.

I'll pay for shipping costs, one way, should I pm you my address?

I should add that I own and use a HP screen and love it.
post #447 of 3769
Quote:
Originally Posted by smile View Post

I'm assuming it carries some tension?

Yes, the perm-wall carries some tension. Since it is only 1" square tubing, the frame is not very stiff, but when the screen is attached it makes it tight like a drum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smile View Post

Was that a problem, assemblying it on the floor then lifting to hang? Or did you attach the screen after mounting to the wall?

I assembled the frame on the floor, drilled in the hanger part, attached the HP material to the frame, and attached the screen to the wall all by myself in about 20 minutes time.
post #448 of 3769
As to uniformity of gain, I posted this elsewhere thou w/ no interest. It fits this topic so,

How to calculate the gain to your seating position.

The circumference of a disc is pi times the diameter,

So 12' from the screen 3.14 (2 * 12)= 3.14 * 24= 75.36'
A degree is 1/360 so 15 dg is (75/360*15) = 3.1'

According to this Da Lite chart gain is down to 1.4 only 15dg off axis. http://www.audiogeneral.com/DaLite/...untensioned.gif

Therefore, at 12' from the screen, the perfectly centered chair sees a 2.8 gain while the chair beside it only sees a 1.4 gain. Similarly, the edges of the screen will be dramatically different gain from front and center.
Did I calculate this correctly?

If this is accurate, simply shifting in your chair will meaningfully change the gain. Seems this would be distracting, but I haven't read mention of it.
post #449 of 3769
I ordered this screen today to replace my graywolf ii (I'm seeing textures from the screen).

I'm hopeful I won't be disappointed. My projector is taple mounted. I should be right in the viewing cone sweetspot. I don't mind if need to wear sunglasses while watching this.

Can't wait!
post #450 of 3769
I am strongly considering the HP pulldown/electric for my installation with the RS-1. I will not be able to use the HP to its full extent in the fact that I will not be able to mount the projector so as to get optimally in the veiwing cone. I will be at about 9 -11 degrees for my veiwing angle. At that, I should get more gain than a traditional 1.0 screen. Reading another thread, several people stated that the HP looked washed out not using it in the ideal setup. Does anyone have experiance with this type of installation? If not, does anyone have a recommendation for a higher gain screen in a pulldown application with wider veiwing cones?
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