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iss-hd moome card

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I got my hdmi card for my iss-6010. I installed it in 2 min. I was watching HD in 5 min. I am on my way to Tweeter to my by an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray box.

-Greg
post #2 of 31
Congrats, Greg. Please let us know what your wiring configuration ends up being, including for audio. And how well you think it does with black crush if have enough time to check it for that.

I put my name in the que for a Moome Marquee HDMI card even though I don't need HDMI or DVI right now.

Btw, word has it that the HD-DVD has better picture quality than Blu_Ray. I've only seen one HD-DVD but it was very comparable to my D-VHS.
post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 
I am comparing my HTPC with MyHD via a very cheap VGA breakout cable to the Moome's ISS-HD with my DishTV HD STB via component RCA cable. It looks the same!

I cannot compare the exact material but the programming on NBC and CBS looks the same as HDNet and DiscoveryHD. Every thing is 1080i.

My projector is NEC pg9-xtra. The cables from the ISS-6010 to the projector are home made RG-6 cables with the BNC connectors screwed on.

My next test is the HDMI, but I don't know what to buy... BD, HD-DVD, PS3, XBOX?

-Greg
post #4 of 31
Greg, did you get adjustable gamma with yours? Any further impressions you could give us? (Or do you not do impresions?)

Thanks,

M
post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall F View Post

Greg, did you get adjustable gamma with yours? Any further impressions you could give us? (Or do you not do impresions?)

Thanks,

M

Marshall, to the best of my knowledge, the gamma circuit is automatic.

Cliff
post #6 of 31
from the misc file:

1) There are no screws with the card as with the NEC OEM plates. Not a big deal - just means you must purchase some or remove the screws from the NEC plates. I had originally thought the NEC plate screws could not be removed, but after examining them closely, it appears you can remove them by inserting pressure on the end while using a screwdriver on the other - just takes a bunch of turns and a little time.

2) I assumed that if you had this connected to a monitor (I know several people have 2 outputs - 1 to Projector and 1 to smaller HDTV monitor) that it would pass audio through the audio output from the HDMI/YPbPr source.

Ok...when you stop laughing, I know....bad assumption on my part which I could have figured out if I had realized there was no audio connectors on the card pictured in the thread - but I had assumed there was for so long, I didn't really think to look for it.

If you are in a similar situation this means you need to totally revamp your audio to the monitor for things running out the NEC - something I am not sure how I am going to deal with it at this point.

3) I am having an issue with the output of these cards through the ISS to a transcoder and into the monitor via YPbPr. I have had a KD-VTCA3 on the output of the NEC to convert it to YPbPr for some time and knew I would eventually replace it with something better.

The problem seems to be the KD-VTCA3 does not like the fact that this signal has already been transcoded once into RGB. I have to assume this is the case - and not the moome ISS card - as I saw the same issue when I transcoded a YPbPr signal PRIOR to running it through the ISS and back out through the Second transcoder to the monitor. I had thought it was the original transcoders and hoped this card would solve the issue - but it appears the issue is in the second transcoder converting a signal BACK to YPbPr as one conversion from RGB devices into the ISS seem to work fine.

So, does anyone have any great suggestions for a Transcoder to replace the Key Digital KD-VTCA3 that will play nice with the Moome card and other sources that have previously been converted to RGB?

Now if moome would only make an output section for the ISS that would output YPbPr
post #7 of 31
man there were some people up late last night! Thanks, guys.

HD - I see your setup now - you are tring to run both the output of the 5bnc to your pj and component to your monitor? How are you transcoding it a second time?

I have a 6020 switcher and 6PG+ if you want to test your card here.

I'm really not dialed into the sound - I would GUESS that it would carry sund if you went from HDMi to HDMI... No? Negative on component. Dave would probably know...

M
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
Yes, I got the Gamma thing. I don't know what it does though... I figured I should just get it.
I have three impressions
First I think the picture looks great through component.

B, I was watching On Flew Over the Coo-Coo's Nest. There are a lot of close up shots in the movie. After a couple of seconds on the face, the skin tone would change from pale to a more natural shade. During Amadeus, in some of the dark scenes, the picture would get darker as the scene progressed.

D, my final impression is that after I turned off the SAT HD STB, I noticed some very faint squigglely doted lines in the background. I assume this was going on during the movies I watched.

The impressions did not distract from my enjoyment of HD-Movies channel, but I did notice. It could have been related to any number of things in the signal chain, including my eye adjusting to the amount of light.

-Greg
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistagreg View Post


D, my final impression is that after I turned off the SAT HD STB, I noticed some very faint squigglely doted lines in the background. I assume this was going on during the movies I watched.

You do know that there was a factor with the ISS that exhibited something similar to what you are talking about? I believe from your description I had the same issue you are talking about about a year ago.

A tip of the hat to kschmit2 for giving me the solution and that we both laughed about how hard it was for the NEC tech to finally troubleshoot the solution.

As dumb as this sounds - but others will confirm or deny - that you need to go through and make sure all the screws on the ISS are really tightened down - especially the Power Supply and Output Module (including the screws on the board themselves) - and as wierd as it sounds - that knocked it out.

Now, the reason I mentioned the screws not included thing in my earlier post was because I suspected this could be an issue for the known reason above. Do you have the module screwed in well to the the ISS and again - make sure everything else (including those on the power and output board) is screwed in very tight.
post #10 of 31
Yep. With my 6010's, you have to tighten the screws on the power supply roughly every other month. Weird......

I'm going to pass my power supply to my buddy to see if he can mod this for me so I don't have to do it anymore.

Cliff
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Wow! thanks for the tip

-Greg
post #12 of 31
Now if someone would just give me a tip as to the best transcoder to get the ISS output from RGB back to YPbPr again......
post #13 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Now if someone would just give me a tip as to the best transcoder to get the ISS output from RGB back to YPbPr again......

I guess the question is, Why? Whats' the rest of your video chain like if you have to tcode back again?

I suppose you could use another output from the ISS (they can run up to four output modules) and a second set of cables to the PJ, then feed component to the PJ on one input and RGBHV on a second input.
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

You do know that there was a factor with the ISS that exhibited something similar to what you are talking about? I believe from your description I had the same issue you are talking about about a year ago.

A tip of the hat to kschmit2 for giving me the solution and that we both laughed about how hard it was for the NEC tech to finally troubleshoot the solution.

As dumb as this sounds - but others will confirm or deny - that you need to go through and make sure all the screws on the ISS are really tightened down - especially the Power Supply and Output Module (including the screws on the board themselves) - and as wierd as it sounds - that knocked it out.

Now, the reason I mentioned the screws not included thing in my earlier post was because I suspected this could be an issue for the known reason above. Do you have the module screwed in well to the the ISS and again - make sure everything else (including those on the power and output board) is screwed in very tight.



Yeah, I originally figured this one out. I also add .01uF bypass caps across the big output caps in the power supply. The use of star washers on the grounds couldn't hurt either. This problem drove me nuts for a LOOONG time before I got off my lazy butt to find it.

My Moome card should be here soon as well. Will holler back then. I did NOT get the gamma circuit, as I have in the meantime gotten 2 external ones.

Marc
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley View Post

I guess the question is, Why? Whats' the rest of your video chain like if you have to tcode back again?

I suppose you could use another output from the ISS (they can run up to four output modules) and a second set of cables to the PJ, then feed component to the PJ on one input and RGBHV on a second input.

Again, anything that I transcode a second time looks like crap - again, I believe it has to be the transcoder on the RBBHV to the YBpBr as it has happened on ever soruce i have transcoded in twice.

OK....here's the Christmas deal. I have 5 of these with Gamma - and the back plates. They are doing me no good until I get this transcoder thing figured out.

I would rather people had the cards now that can use them now. It's stupid for me to have these and not be able to use them this week.

If you have paid Moome for your card with Gamma - and can confirm it with him - I will be happy to send you one of mine now (providing you pay shipping) and Moome can just send me yours when its ready.

Again, I'd just prefer people have these that can use them now.

Consider it my Holiday Gift.

You can message me if you are interested.
post #16 of 31
Why on earth would you transcode back to Component???

Surely the simple option is to use RGBHV, and pickup a CRT projector designed to use that, if you haven't already got one.

Double transcoded is always going to look like crap....
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Why on earth would you transcode back to Component???

Surely the simple option is to use RGBHV, and pickup a CRT projector designed to use that, if you haven't already got one.

Double transcoded is always going to look like crap....

Well, I need to convert it back to either YPbPr or DVI/HDMI to go into my Sony KV34XBR960, which as you probably know, is a tube capable of producing very dark blacks.

I have several Dish 6000s which do have a RGB output, however, their life is coming to an end with MPEG4. I have several D* DCT-100 which also have RGB output, but again, these are coming to end of life.

Neither of the MPEG4 replacements have RGB output.

The SC* units do not have RGB nor do the newer BEV units either.

C Band via the HDD-200/HDD-201 does have a switch for YPbPr/RGBVH, but I get the same issues when I put them in the ISS as RGB, so I assume the HDD-201 is transcoding to YPbPr to RGBVH in its output as well.

So maybe this will end up as a total bust for me and I'll end up selling the NEC units on ebay with cards intact - but I have to believe if the transcoding is done properly both ways, I don't see why it should be an issue.

I am just figuring it has to be the Key Digital RGB to YPbPr transcoder that is the issue - as there are clearly better units - but I am no expert on that - which is why I am asking.
post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Again, anything that I transcode a second time looks like crap - again, I believe it has to be the transcoder on the RBBHV to the YBpBr as it has happened on ever soruce i have transcoded in twice.

OK....here's the Christmas deal. I have 5 of these with Gamma - and the back plates. They are doing me no good until I get this transcoder thing figured out.

I would rather people had the cards now that can use them now. It's stupid for me to have these and not be able to use them this week.

If you have paid Moome for your card with Gamma - and can confirm it with him - I will be happy to send you one of mine now (providing you pay shipping) and Moome can just send me yours when its ready.

Again, I'd just prefer people have these that can use them now.

Consider it my Holiday Gift.

You can message me if you are interested.

I may still take you up on this but let's see how much of a delay for the cards.....

Cliff
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Well, I need to convert it back to either YPbPr or DVI/HDMI to go into my Sony KV34XBR960, which as you probably know, is a tube capable of producing very dark blacks.

Hey... the whole story finally comes out! We are'nt that abrasive here, are we? We've been known to help our RP bretheren as long as there are three tubes in the set!

Given his history here, and the excellent reviews that his reverse transcoder (YPbPr to RGBHV) gets... I'd say give the Kim (buen) transcoder a try:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html
post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley View Post

Hey... the whole story finally comes out! We are'nt that abrasive here, are we? We've been known to help our RP bretheren as long as there are three tubes in the set!

Given his history here, and the excellent reviews that his reverse transcoder (YPbPr to RGBHV) gets... I'd say give the Kim (buen) transcoder a try:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html

Well, I wouldnt say its a RP as much as a straight CRT...but whatever.

Ordered a Kim Transcoder - but wondering why Mark_A_W is saying a transcode to RGBVH and back again is always going to look like crap and if I am wasting my time.

And at least give me credit for trying to get these cards in to people's hands that can use them out of the box while I am still troubleshooting my specific situation.
post #21 of 31
Well, I'm not trying to be abrasive, but I am being realistic.

You are pushing something to do what it was not designed to do....

Although mathematically component to RGBHV may be perfect (or maybe not, I'd have to check), in practice it seems to be very tricky. Rounding off errors, component tolerances..all sorts of compromises to do things in real life..

So you are taking an imperfect conversion, and then stacking another imperfect conversion on top of it.
Then the display (I don't know what it is - is it a CRT RPTV? Or one of those widescreen sony direct view TVs? All I know is it's not a CRT Projector..) may be converting to RGBHV internally to drive the tubes/tube.

You may be converting three times. I just don't think it's going to fly.

To me your choices are:

1. Stick with component or HDMI - whatever suits better. Something your display will handle without converting (well, more than once..).

2. Get a display capable of handling RGBHV - like a CRT projector, they are cheap now.

I'm sorry I sounded a bit short, but I think we've had this discussion before...
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

Well, I'm not trying to be abrasive, but I am being realistic.

You are pushing something to do what it was not designed to do....

Although mathematically component to RGBHV may be perfect (or maybe not, I'd have to check), in practice it seems to be very tricky. Rounding off errors, component tolerances..all sorts of compromises to do things in real life..

So you are taking an imperfect conversion, and then stacking another imperfect conversion on top of it.
Then the display (I don't know what it is - is it a CRT RPTV? Or one of those widescreen sony direct view TVs? All I know is it's not a CRT Projector..) may be converting to RGBHV internally to drive the tubes/tube.

You may be converting three times. I just don't think it's going to fly.

To me your choices are:

1. Stick with component or HDMI - whatever suits better. Something your display will handle without converting (well, more than once..).

2. Get a display capable of handling RGBHV - like a CRT projector, they are cheap now.

I'm sorry I sounded a bit short, but I think we've had this discussion before...

Well, if these conversions are done the proper way - as I thought this is why people were waiting for these cards then you should not have the errors you speak of, imho.

For a direct view CRT there is none better than the Sony 34XBR series. I know when the predecessor, the 910 came out in Fall 2003 every single Year End State of HDTV had it listed as the best - the only consistent platform across every year end review I could find. And as noted, it has a crt tube

http://www.altermanaudio.com/Sony34XBR.html
Introducing the Sony KV34XBR960 Super Fine Pitch Trinitron. The Super Fine Pitch Trinitron CRT. Super Fine Pitch increases the number of vertical slits by 65%. This increases the resolution. A new improved high luminescent phosphor is used. The electron gun has been further improved also. The KV34XBR900 Wega Trinitron was named video product of the year.
post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Well, if these conversions are done the proper way - as I thought this is why people were waiting for these cards then you should not have the errors you speak of, imho.


These conversions are done as good as can be expected within reasonable cost (see mark's comment about component cost) and done once.

People are waiting for these cards so that our HD-capable CRT front projection sets, few of which handle component directly but all of which handle RGBHV natively, can enjoy HDMI and modern sources.
I'd wager that you are literally the only buyer of these cards to transcode back to component.

All that said, the best devices will provide the best results (i.e. cheap devices made with cheap, wide-tolerance components will yield more conversion error than a Kim forward-transcoder.) Run with it and let us know how it goes.
post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley View Post

Given his history here, and the excellent reviews that his reverse transcoder (YPbPr to RGBHV) gets... I'd say give the Kim (buen) transcoder a try:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/transcoder.html

Purchased and Installed.

Yes, it does better than the Key Digital Transcoder. Cleaned up some musquito noise issues as well.

However, cannot get YPbPr or HDMI through Moome card to not have serious issues.

Kim states he has no issue transcoding twice with his units and does it all the time - thus I am even more confused now - as the same issues are exhibited through the NEC-ISS with the Moome input card, Key Digital YPbPr> RGB transcoder, the Motorola HD-200 when it outputs RGBVH, and an NEC-ISS Transcoder.
post #25 of 31
You may want to try turning off the gamma adjustment for a direct view set.

I'm still confused, you have an NEC switcher right?

Why not feed the component inputs directly into the normal RGB input cards? You will get component out the other side then and won't need any transcoders at all.
If all of your devices have component output, then just do that,(if you have a couple of sources that have only RGB just use a transcoder to convert RGB to component once and feed that into the normal RGB cards.)

You would then need no transcoders at all as the switcher would just switch the component inputs, or would just have one set of transcoders RGB-component on the input side.

I'll gladly swap you a couple of RGB input cards for moome cards if need be
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenF View Post

You may want to try turning off the gamma adjustment for a direct view set.

I'm still confused, you have an NEC switcher right?

Why not feed the component inputs directly into the normal RGB input cards? You will get component out the other side then and won't need any transcoders at all.
If all of your devices have component output, then just do that,(if you have a couple of sources that have only RGB just use a transcoder to convert RGB to component once and feed that into the normal RGB cards.)

You would then need no transcoders at all as the switcher would just switch the component inputs, or would just have one set of transcoders RGB-component on the input side.

I'll gladly swap you a couple of RGB input cards for moome cards if need be

And then I could not feed HDMI in nor would the SD sources that are upconverted work.

I've said this 4x and it doesnt seem to be sinking in, but if you were aware of the KV-34XBR960 you would know the Gamma Card does make a difference and as noted, it it not the problem

A Kim states he tests his equipment by transcoding twice, this should not be an issue.
post #27 of 31
HDTV has a direct view CRT TV. I think it's the last in this group that Sony is still manufactyuring. What is you projector, BTW?

You've got a bunch of sources that have HDMI output, and you are using Moome's card to get those signals via 5 BNC to your projector...

I'm not that familiar with HDMI products, but your TV appears to accepts HDMI. Can't you get an HDMI switcher/ splitter. From your source, you would split it to go to TV and also to ISS switcher. This hookup should also carry sound, I think.

Although you can technically transcode and encode hundreds of times, I've always understood that you want to limit this or avoid it altogether. What may work on a computer setup, doesn't look so hot in an HD TV setup.

Anyone use an HDMI splitter? Is this a good solution? Or is your main goal to have gamma adjustment?

Marshall

Also, HDTV has been very kind in offers to share his switcher input cards - thanks!
post #28 of 31
Cliff I knew you had a few loose screws Dude use a little of that screw loc-tie stuff...
post #29 of 31
Probably should not use loctite in/around electrical paths... it's a great insulator and if it (common loctite) comes in contact with silver it reacts and makes a really nasty brown oil that will migrate everywhere.
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

And then I could not feed HDMI in nor would the SD sources that are upconverted work.

I've said this 4x and it doesnt seem to be sinking in, but if you were aware of the KV-34XBR960 you would know the Gamma Card does make a difference and as noted, it it not the problem

A Kim states he tests his equipment by transcoding twice, this should not be an issue.

Why not use a HDMI AV receiver like the new Yamaha, it takes HDMI and analogue (component, Svideo, composite) sources and will upconvert your SD sources and output everything to a single HDMI output.
That would be all you need no?
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