Epson TW700(810) tweak thread(someone had to start)

Thanks for starting this thread.

After swithing on the TW700 for the first time, I though that dark areas were too dark and that shadow details were lost. I immediately set the DVI video level to "expanded" (as you mention above) but still thought it was too dark. I've noticed that the gamma setting in my HTPC catalyst control center was set very low - I'm not sure why or wether this is even correct, except that it has always worked with all my previous projectors. Anyway, I cranked it up a bit as well as setting the second gamma point in the gamma graph on the TW700 to 10. I adjusted the brightness and contrast using Avia and it seemed better, if not perfect yet.

I used a light meter to ascertain the optimum settings for the bias/offset RGB controls (this is the exact level where the lumen start increasing, thereby defining the black point for R, G and B). I ended up with the following settings there: R=-7, G=-10, B=3.

I tried to calibrate the gray scale by setting the R,G,B gain controls while viewing the grey scale pattern on Avia but was unable to get this right. I also changed the colour away from 6500K to see whether this helped, but was not able to get a perfect grey scale (visually that is). It is either too red or too green (green was specifically more prevelant around the 40-60 IRE levels). I did think that 7500K looked better on the gray scale though.

I'm no calibration expert (far from it) so would appreciate help on this. I don't think that the TW700 is good right out of the box (unlike the AX100 for example) and will need some tweaking to get the shadow detail right as well as the color on target.

SDE: a slight turn of the focus ring in an anti-clockwise direction (facing the lens and not the screen) improves this. I found that anti-clockwise works better than clockwise IMO.

Smegger, don't you need a serial cable for that software since the TW700 doesn't have a USB port, does it?

I looked for the "Let the Application Control the Video Adjustments..." setting, but unfortunately that setting is only available under the 3D section in CCC and not in the Video setting (in my version anyway). In the end I set all the settings in CCC back to their defaults and adjusted the gamma to 1.47.

I then went into the TW700 and reset everything back to factory defaults and settled on Theatre Black 2 (which is the theater film mode according to the manual). I must say that I'm starting to like the image and it makes the color more accurate and less over saturated. I'm quite impressed with the blacks - they are really black.

I have been using my tw-700 alot with some light on in my theater room. The brighter settings like livingroom and natural all looked like crap out of the box. The first thing i did was to change the color temp to 6000 or 5500. They were much higher out of the box. THe skin tones were much more natural after doing this.
I also adjusted the gamma a bit which helped make the pic look more like the theater dark modes. The dynamic mode is just not usable imo. All the other modes can be made to look good though.
I have adjusted the focus to eliminate some of the screen door. As stated in other posts, if you turn the focus ring counterclockwise while looking at the pj you can eliminate some of the sd while loosing almost none of the sharpness. I did this with binoculars to see the pixels and it really works. Sd was not much of a problem anyway, but now is is basically nonexistent.

I like my TW700 except when the picture goes black, the black is quite light. I thought the auto iris would close further. When the picture is mostly bright, it's great. I'm using Theatre Black 2. Is this the same level of black for a Z5?

Keep this thread alive with lots of tweaks as it will be invaluable to someone like me in a couple months when I get my TW700.

I'm using a TW1000, but things should be close enough for me to participate here. When I set the HDMI Video level to expanded it seemed to turn my blacks to bright gray. (?) I'll have to go back and play with it some more. Haven't done much tweaking yet.

Hope I explain this right.

HDMI Video Level setting (Normal or Expanded) is to match the video (luma and chroma) level the projector is receiving.

Normal setting - DVD Video level from a DVD player is :16 (black) - 235(white)
Expanded setting - computer PC Level is: 0 (black) - 255 (white)

You would use the 'Expanded setting' if your outputting over DVI from your pc to the projector's HDMI port.

In simple terms;
When set to Expanded the projector is expecting a pc video level range of 0-255 (hence why it's called expanded).
When your DVD player sends it's darkest black as 16 (16-235), the projector displays a brighter grey and not black because 0 would be black when set to Expanded(0-255).

Joe

Makes sense, Joe. It turns my blacks to bright gray!

Great explanation... any idea what a games console or slightly alternative players like an oppo etc would output as far as ranges go?

Normal/Expanded is only used on the HDMI port.

Both should be Normal video signal. Expanded is used mainly for DVI pc video cards.

Let's see some people post some of their tweaked projector settings here. Maybe something like this can be used as a template:

Method of calibration (DVE, Avia, Get Gray, Spyder, other light sensor, etc.)
Screen Type
Screen size
Screen gain
Viewing Distance
Throw Distance
Tweaked Projector Settings by colour mode (TheaterBlack, HD, Natural, etc.)
Brightness
Contrast
Colour
Tint
Gamma
Colour temperature
RGB Adjustments
Hue/Saturation Adjustments
Sharpness
White/Black Level
Brightness/Contrast Level
Advanced Settings (SuperWhite, Output, etc)

I'm going to borrow a Spyder 2 Express edition from a friend and try to do a calibration on my TW700 using the free HCFR software (wish there was a simple english dummy's guide).

Does anyone know what the best starting point on this projector would be in terms of:
1) colour mode - Theater Black 1/2?
2) iris open/closed - ON?

Anyone else that has gone through this process - I would appreciate a run down of what you did and of your findings.

TIA

I will be doing that exact type of calibration on my TW700 in about 3 months when my HT is finished.

Up until then I'll just be playing with the TW700 on a zero gain white screen, but will try to post my findings.

I like theater black 1 the best for movies. I will look forward to your settings for the pj when you use the calibration software. I just used avia and my eyeballs to get what i think looks good. I continue to be amazed at what a clean vibrant 3d like picture this pj throws. Oh and i forgot about bright when needed.

Ok, found these tweak settings on the HCFR software French forum and translated them. The calibration was done using the HCFR software. I've tried them and they do look good:

Colour Mode: Theatre Black 1
White Level: -2
Black Level +1
Saturation: -7
Tint: 0
Sharpness: Standard, +4
Colour Temp: 6500K
Skin Tone: +3
RGB/RGBCMY: RGB
Offset R: -14
Offset G: +4
Offset B: -7
Gain R: +6
Gain G: -4
Gain B: +25
Gamma (customized on graph - IRE 0 to 100): 0, +2, +6, +3, +4, +3, +2, -2, -1
Iris: ON

Let me know how you find it (I tried it on HDMI from my HTPC). As we know, it i likely to vary from unit to unit and influenced by the environment, but it may be a good starting point for more precise calibration?

Link to original post: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl...language_tools

Great Work Xander I will be ordering my 700 on Tuesday once the sale of my house is unconditional so this thread is perfect timing for me. LOL getting all excited like a naughty little schoolboy...what a geek hehehe

Keep this kind of info coming. Be really good to see what people have really adjusted it to in their own environments.

http://www.avclub.gr/forum/showpost....2&postcount=56


Andrea Manuti's calibration too green on my pj

i tried them yesterday on my tw600, dvdp thompson 252e, hdmi, 106 diy wall, mattwhite

not very bad pic but black needed to be at 0 as there was "fog" on +1

and red color needs adjustment as it appears very pink....

i liked the green color, looked natural enough

also blue needed a little push

saturation put on -5 as faces looked too pale

plus sharpness put on advanced and pushed almost to end

i prefer iris off

not exactly the right set up for me but not a bad picture at all

My TW600 is calibrated with DVE from a HTPC & HDMI cable and the setting is on "Normal". When I switch it over to "Expanded", the blacks go to light grey. Is this correct and I need to re-calibrate the PJ?
Is there anywhere in the HTPC software to check the output settings, or is it always 0-255 over the DVI/HDMI output?

I've also got a HDMI out DVD player, but it looks like I might have to have 2 memory settings for my calibration. 1 for the HTPC, and 1 for the DVD player.

Hello,

I see that my parameters of my TW700 calibrated comes to AVS forum...!!!

Hooow!!... What a honor for me...I didn't really think my post on HCFR forum will be so appreciated.. all over the world...!!!

To introduce me, I'm the same Doux you can read on HCFR forum (frenchy)! and I'm very very happy with my Epson TW700. This projector is fabulous and It's a pleasure to attempt calibraton with it!!!

As I wrote on the HCFR forum, each projector is different (even for same model) and they have different levels value in factory mode.
That's the reason my settings will not be useful for everybody on their projector!
We don't have the same environment for doing the projection (room, screen size, color of the wall, disk support etc).
It's the first time I try to make a calibration on a projector...and I love that!!!

There are new settings, now, on my TW700 because there is a new version of the calibration soft "HCFR" which permits more precision and a different calibration approach for the luminance curve (gamma). Now I have a more linear gamma curve and my blacks are dark but not so "strong", more details are seen in the dark scenes...!!! and black is dense!!! This curve is near the standard 2.2 on graph, but in reality it's near 2.17.

I will post screenshots I have taken last night with the new setting...
My configurationis TW700 + Pioneer 989 player or HTPC.

I'm glad to know my settings help you..(maybe I will post my new ones...)

Enjoy!!! and see you soon...

Doux, thanks for joining our tweak thread and welcome! We are looking forward to your next settings.

I have completed a first attempt at calibrating my TW700 using a Spyder2 with the wonderful HCFR software. I have only concentrated on the grayscale calibration part at this point since I don't actually know how to do the gamma part - more research is required. I also don't know whether I'm using the software correctly yet and some of the parameters may be wrong (e.g. RGB levels).

I positioned the Spyder2 on a tripod, about 4 feet in front of the projector, facing the projector. I used the Avia grayscale window patterns.

Anyway, what was interesting is that both Theater Black 1 & 2 seems way off out of the box (as I had expected).

See the attached zipped PDF and please provide some feedback on how to improve this calibration even further. TIA

ps. I cannot recommend the Spyder2 (express edition)+HCFR combination highly enough. It is so easy and fast to use compared with SmartIII that I previoussly purchased for my HS10. I think it will be a wonderful piece of gear once I understand exactly how to use it.

 

TW700Calibration1.zip 482.0341796875k . file

I'm also new here, so I want to say hello everyone and thanks for this thread.
And sorry for my english
I also have TW700, and like someone wrote before the blaks are just to black, and the the shadow details are lost, so i'm searching the net to solve this problem.
I used DVE but it didn't helped.
I've had a Matt White screen, and it was not that bad, but right now i have a High Contrast, light grey screen and the picture is darker, and this "shadow detail problem" is much bigger. So, in my opinion the HC screen is not a good idea for this PJ.
I have already tried this settings found by Xander (copyright by Doux - thank you both, and for my PJ they work pretty well
So i'm looking forward some news, especially from Doux!
Greetings from Poland!

WOW, Xander - this is professional!!
And i guess this RGB levels setting in HCFR should be set to 0-255, if DVI level is Expanded, Joe_Black was writing about it.

Thanks for the write-up Xander. I might have to grab a Spyder 2 Express myself, I didn't realise they were so cheap.

Hey..!! Thanks Xander!!!

Thanks for your interest on my opinion and our soft HCFR!!!

First, I would like to apologise for my English before trying to bring my remarks about your document joined in your post!!.

I also have a Spyder 2 and I have made some tests and comparition between the HCFR model and the Spider2 one.

I can just tell you that the Spider2 probe is less precise that the HCFR probe.. (and for the price, it's a very good item!). But for the calibration of an LCD projector with a very big potential like the TW700, we have to do it with the most precision possible...!!
I use the spider 2 for my scrennshots control monitor!

My remark is particularly for the Epson projectors TW600 and TW700, because they transmited a lot of Infra REd in low Luminosity (10 to 30IRE).
The spyder 2 model include a IRE filter but I don't think it's very efficient.

Anyway, this is a probe and it helps us to calibrate our projector or video devices!!

About your calibration report :

- Try to work with "sRGB" space (not HD one) because it's the most general purpose one,
- Put the RGB levels at 0.255 (expanded and really good for the details in the black). DVD SD is set to 16-235 (default signal) but our devices are working in RGB, so in 0-255 level... for the HD signals, there is no more questions on this subject...
- Gamma set at 2.2 (it's the ref.. but I made some research with the personnal mode and I found a better curve...I will tell you more tomorrow...!!)
----> You can work with the option "standard avec compensation du noir" (on the menu "préférences", it's a good way to find the right sets for the gamma in personal mode.The last option I have tried was "optimisé", and I was very very impressed by the results).

- IMPORTANT : work with the IRIS OFF when you calibrate teh TW700 (the IRIS of the TW700 does not change the color space and level when you watch films, and as it's a dynamic one, it's easier to do the calibration without it!!)

The curves of the RGB seems to be good (the problem between the 0 to 30IRE is probably due to the IRE and/or the dynamic IRIS (if it was on).

I will try to explain to you the process I used to calibrate the TW700, but not this evening (for us in France it's late 12h52 PM...!!), I have to go to the bed (I work tomorrow, and my wife is waiting for me...!!! ).
Just an "avant gout" : the "skin tone" works principally on the Green curve...!!!
The process is very dificult to explainand very long... (and my english... )

have a nice day!

ps: For the Primary, secondary and grayscale measurement, you have to place the Spider 2 between 2.6 to 3.3 feet in front of the screen (not facing the projector!!! don't worry about the shadow on the screen).
For the contrast measurement, you can place the probe directly facing of the projector (but it's the only case).

Xander, What was the contrast ratio after calibration?

Moe

We're now getting some really good input into this thread. Great stufff!

Before reading Doux's post above, I did a repeat measurement run after setting the RGB levels to 0-255. This run still improved the RGB histogram, but brought the contrast reading down. With my previous calibration above the contrast was 2449:1 and now it is 1635:1.

After reading Doux's post above, I have to make the following changes and repeat the measurement:
- keep the iris set to OFF
- face the spyder2 towards the screen and move closer to the screen
- use sRGB color space (used HD prev)

I don't quite understand this point from Doux: "You can work with the option "standard avec compensation du noir" (on the menu "préférences", it's a good way to find the right sets for the gamma in personal mode.The last option I have tried was "optimisé", and I was very very impressed by the results)." - does it mean I should select the 3rd radio button under Gamma Calculation on the Preferences|References dialog (I left it on the 2nd default "Display Gamma with Black compensation")?

Doux, looking forward to your "guide on calibrating the TW700"...

Thanks all.