or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › JVC RS1 review!!! (of sorts)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

JVC RS1 review!!! (of sorts) - Page 2  

post #31 of 451
well DILA/SXRD with 2million pixels and highest fill factor give enormous depth and density.
i have many many bad looking DLPs yet i agree some look great.
DLP still suffers from (1xDLP) motion dithering, colors "approximations" at times, static dithering.
best LCOS gives extremely natural images. the "snap" can be improved with high gain screens and scaler contrast boost. (snap+overal brightness. watch out for bad compressions though with gain)
3DLP 2K still unafordable for most ($35,000K+ minimum)
post #32 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I assume that you are talking about the Sharp, and if so, I would agree *IF* it could deliver those specs at a reasonable lumens output like 600 to 800. At 400 lumens on a new lamp (200 after a couple of hundred hours), its beauty will be very short lived.

Sadly you are right.
post #33 of 451
I wonder if Cine4home will measure contrast such that we can compare their results. So far they are finding the JVC to be quite good. As always, we have to see it to believe it and know what it means to us. I would need to see a very large difference in black level along with much higher contrast to upgrade from my Hitachi TX200.
post #34 of 451
[quote=TheLion] I will take 7000:1 On/Off with 800 ANSI contrast and VERY good inter-pixel contrast any day over 15.000:1 @ 260:1 ANSI and even much worse inter-pixel contrast. Just my 2 cents.
QUOTE]
At 400 lumens and the price for the Sharp you can keep that.
post #35 of 451
[quote=Bulldogger]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

I will take 7000:1 On/Off with 800 ANSI contrast and VERY good inter-pixel contrast any day over 15.000:1 @ 260:1 ANSI and even much worse inter-pixel contrast. Just my 2 cents.
QUOTE]
At 400 lumens and the price for the Sharp you can keep that.

The actual street price is what counts And depending on your screen size/gain 400 lumen are just fine.

Everything is a compromise - after months of overblown rave people will realize that the JVC is no different. I still think it is a tremendous unit and any SXRD/DILA "fan" will be more than satisfied with it. BUT it is very different from the unique DLP look. Pick your poison!
post #36 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

this is actually sad news, not much reason to "upgrade my Pearl" if at all now.

Too soon for the doom and gloom guys.
There's a lot of unknowns with this review - but even so these specs work just fine for me and my (present) room.

As far as up-grading your Pearl - reason I passed on Pearl was mostly because of the roll of the dice re: MC, shading and light corners. Hopefully JVC will have better quality control in these areas.
post #37 of 451
I've yet to see a DLP that could match LCOS or DILA for my highly scientific criteria of color "richness" and "warmth" so I'm really interested in the RS1. It also seems to be highly versatile for set up. First projector I've seen that I could mount on a shelf at the rear of my room and use lens shift to correct for the offsets. And, Halleluja, it has the long throw that those of us who don't think projectors should be hung over our heads can use.

Yup, really anticipating the RS1 (HD1).
post #38 of 451
How reflective was the meter itself? If it was really close to the front of the unit might there not have beens some reflections off the meter and then back off the silver front of the unit again?

Shawn
post #39 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck View Post

I've yet to see a DLP that could match LCOS or DILA for my highly scientific criteria of color "richness" and "warmth" so I'm really interested in the RS1. It also seems to be highly versatile for set up. First projector I've seen that I could mount on a shelf at the rear of my room and use lens shift to correct for the offsets. And, Halleluja, it has the long throw that those of us who don't think projectors should be hung over our heads can use.

Yup, really anticipating the RS1 (HD1).

And maybe this is overkill, but the long throw may help people trying to optimize their setup for constant height with a lens. Imagine 1080p widescreen with a lens on this jvc. Potentially pretty amazing.
post #40 of 451
[quote=TheLion]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post


The actual street price is what counts And depending on your screen size/gain 400 lumen are just fine.

Everything is a compromise - after months of overblown rave people will realize that the JVC is no different. I still think it is a tremendous unit and any SXRD/DILA "fan" will be more than satisfied with it. BUT it is very different from the unique DLP look. Pick your poison!



I assume you dont see rainbows? I happened to see a Sharp a few days ago and it looked great...for about 5minutes when I started noticing the RBE. I felt like I was on an acid trip, and it was very distracting. I dont see how anyone could buy this unit, or any 1-chip DLP personally.

These numbers are still very impressive IMO. I am sure with a few tweaks, that CR could get even a bit closer to the 15000, but even at 13000, this is phenom! When the specs first came out for this unit, the native CR was rated at 10000:1. IF JVC had kept these specs, we would all be overjoyed at this part of the report. The lumens will hit the 700 no doubt at min throw, so this should be no surprise to anyone, and we should actually be happy as JVC has accurately reported this. The ansi could be a bit higher, BUT it has not gone backwards at all compared to Qualia, Ruby, Pearl and I see that as a positive.

Of course this unit could not completely live up to the INSANE hype it has built around here, but it is coming very close which is incredible IMO. The only other projector I was really considering is the Pearl, and there is not even a thought between this unit and the Pearl from what we know at this stage. No DI is a huge upgrade alone over the Pearl, not to mention the Gennum chip, better placement options, convergence adjustment, etc......

Also, this is one report from some random source. I am curious to see what Jason reports.

The real test is what we see before our eyes, and getting caught up in slightly different numbers is rediculous. By all acounts this unit throws a mind blowing image and a noticable upgrade to other units in its class (Pearl....). Certainly all you guys who are dissapointed will not ignore what your eyes are seeing on screen which is going to be just what has been reported

I dont see this report as a dissapointment at all personally. This unit will destroy my 900 I am using now, and looks to be much better than the Pearl I almost purchased so many times (So glad I did not jump on the Pearl now after seeing this report, and the cine4home report) JMO
post #41 of 451
I agree, but this review, now has me willing to wait till next years Sony/JVC. It better have 15,000:1 native, and Adj Convergance. Plus HDMI 1.3 will be out, and Hopfully a motorized Lens again.
post #42 of 451
I don't think most are concerned about on/off CR, its the ANSI. I can see rainbows but they don't jump out at me with my Dwin and I hardly ever notice them.

I fully believe this is a true and honest review, but we do not know the conditions at the time of the review so future measurements may change for better or worse. What I am concerned about is a flat looking image compared to high end DLP. I want to see that deep 3D looking picuture.
I don't care which technology. I would also like to be able to light up a large screen.

TheLion,
I was talking about the case. I'm hoping we will be getting the solid black one. Thanks.
post #43 of 451
Atleast the ANSI has not gone backwards I agree it would be nice if it were higher, but some big steps have been taken. Why not focus on the positives is all I am trying to get at. This unit will be an upgrade over other units in its class no doubt about it.

Anyone in the market for a projector who cant do 1-DLP (like me) in this price range, this is a no brainer over the competition (Pearl, Panny 1000, Mits 5000, new Epson, etc...).
post #44 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

It seems like we will land at
600+ ANSI lumen
roughly 15000:1
close to 300:1 ANSI
This is GOOD progress for d-ila.

I wonder what the limit of LC technology is as far as what ANSI cr that is possible. With a pure reflective technology you have no scattering in the LC and no optical density transitions.

WILL IT NEVER END ! Pardon me, but geesh, Ohlson, I have read for weeks on end your hype on the JVC and this is now moving toward ridiculous. You have stretched every category "up" listed above. This does little for your credibility and little for the JVC product. Apparently, the anonymous individual reviewed this in an honest, humble manner, not wishing to bring the wrath of AVS fandom down on his/her head. The angriest crowd is a "disappointed" crowd. Hey, I hope the hype is deserved, but I use the word "hype" because what has gone on here for about two months has, IN PART, been based on conjecture. I would not have spoken out until now only because there have been "real sitings" by reputable (if perhaps zealous and emotional) folks. So let's hope for the best, but can we try and keep it real ?
post #45 of 451
[flame_suit_on]What amazes me is that pretty much everyone who has seen this projector thinks it is stunning and yet many who haven't are complaining about the ANSI measurement when (it seems to me) that no-one really understands the real effect of high native ANSI contrast in a real-world viewing room.

Personally, I think it is too early for true production models to be appearing and until the anonymous source is revealed as well as the source and nature of the unit, I'm going by Cine4Home's measurements: 695 D65 lumens at 15200:1. I don't thing the posting of an anonymous review helps anyone. All it does is feed the speculation gannets.[/flame_suit_off]

BTW, even if the new figures are representitive of production models, I'm still getting one!
post #46 of 451
I'm more interested about the secret reviewers impressions of the projector.

I keep hearing opinions that ansi contrast > on/off contrast but if that was the case why have so many been so impressed with their eyes on experiences?

From the types of the messurements it sounds like the secret reviewer knows his stuff so I would be interested in hearing their thoughts on the experience.
post #47 of 451
I agree Virus! Even if these numbers hold up, it is still a nice upgrade over the competition and still some truly excellent specs
post #48 of 451
I am willing to give a little faith on the secret reviewers opinion. Mark has been a great source for information and if the secret reviewer is ok'd by him i have no doubt that the secret reviewer has the credentials.

However I still beleave in cine4home's measurements. The secret reviewer even said they where trying to tweak the machine to meet those measurements. So untill we get an update who knows? Plus you have different equiptment taking the measurements and some variance between machines.
post #49 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

And maybe this is overkill, but the long throw may help people trying to optimize their setup for constant height with a lens. Imagine 1080p widescreen with a lens on this jvc. Potentially pretty amazing.

exactly. (though a scaler is needed unless production units include the vertical streatch found on the HX1 2 HD2K HD10K)
post #50 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by VirusKiller View Post

[flame_suit_on]What amazes me is that pretty much everyone who has seen this projector thinks it is stunning and yet many who haven't are complaining about the ANSI measurement when (it seems to me) that no-one really understands the real effect of high native ANSI contrast in a real-world viewing room.

Personally, I think it is too early for true production models to be appearing and until the anonymous source is revealed as well as the source and nature of the unit, I'm going by Cine4Home's measurements: 695 D65 lumens at 15200:1. I don't thing the posting of an anonymous review helps anyone. All it does is feed the speculation gannets.[/flame_suit_off]

BTW, even if the new figures are representitive of production models, I'm still getting one!

well said
i think people who bought the very pricey super dim marantz or a qualia (nice beast but 30K ? worth barely 8K now second hand or a Sim2 imho have more to rant than people who will buy the HD1 RS1.
that contrast ratio WITHOUT IRIS (WITHOUT IMAGE DYNAMICS COMPRESSION) is amazing. (if the room allows) and still with good brigthness (good is 600ansi, 300 is scandalous). Killer machine and will make a lot of people who have scalers, ISCO lenses and big scope screens happy for many years (not 6months). till a 3DLP 1000ansi 2K is at $12K or till JVC 4K 1000ansi 15000:1 ($15K) ( but imagine the inboard or outboard scaler required...)
post #51 of 451
CRT has poor ansi contrast: often: 70-80:1 but has massive ON OFF CR (30,000:1 in a good room). so... something is odd...
D-ILA gives natural color richness (natural color richness) vs mono chip. (3DLP is another beast but still very pricey at 2K and somehow still suffer from "mirrors motion artefacts" at close viewing).
post #52 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petersen View Post

I was mistaken the color was adjusted for the User1 setting (not out of the box as I stated earlier).

The ANSI measurement was done at the projector (probe looking directly into the projector) with the sensor close to the projector so room effects shouldn't make an appreciable difference.

Just to clarify it's actually an HD1 rather than an RS1.

Those are fantastic numbers.

To put it in current perspective that is a Pearl with 3X better native on/off, 20% better dynamic range without any BC, slightly better ANSI CR, digitil pixel adjustment which limits MC to < .5 pixel, and available WM optomization!

All for ~ $6,200 msrp!
post #53 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Those are fantastic numbers.

To put it in current perspective that is a Pearl with 3X better native on/off, 20% better dynamic range without any BC, slightly better ANSI CR, digitil pixel adjustment which limits MC to < .5 pixel, and available WM optomization!

All for ~ $6,200 msrp!

I agree 100%.

Not to mention (very important to me) a 2X throw ratio and (hopefully) better quality control.

OK, on a lesser note, I'm also giddy over the all-black case.
post #54 of 451
[quote=TheLion]There is (still) nothing that can touch DLP for "punch" and dimensionality. I will take 7000:1 On/Off with 800 ANSI contrast and VERY good inter-pixel contrast any day over 15.000:1 @ 260:1 ANSI and even much worse inter-pixel contrast. QUOTE]

TheLion..

You are Sooooooo wrong you don't know how wrong until you see an A/B comparison in person. I am the BIGGEST DLP fan out there. In fact, I've only owned DLP machines in the past because of the lack of "PUNCH" the LCD's & LcOS/SXRD's have had and YES I have seen them all from the Qualias to the Ruby's the Pearls, JVC's etc...

Until just recently when I had the pleasure of viewing, in a light controlled room side-by-side, a Sharp 20K, a 3-chip Infocus 777 a Pearl and a Meridian MF-1...

NO CONTEST! The winner was the Meridian MF-1 believe it or not! I have had 2 Sharp DLP's in the past a 9000 and a 10000 and I've always favored them to other PJ's due to their gorgeous picture but in this case the "DEPTH" was better & more realistic meaning less digital looking on the Meridian AND it did NOT look less Sharp (no pun intended) than the Sharp 20K.

Looking at these numbers for the HD1 one would think it may look inferior to the Sharp 20K BUT these numbers are even BETTER than the Meridian & the Meridian was a CLEAR winner to the Sharp so those on the sidelines need not worry I truly believe that we have established a new level of desired beauty in Home Theater and that is this JVC and don't forget this is coming from a guy that hasBASHED ALL LcOS/SXRD displays in the past after viewing them just check my posts.

All of us are in for a real treat I can't go back to DLP after viewing the Meridian folks and I bet neither will ANY of you & YES including TheLion.
post #55 of 451
Mark,

The numbers you post are believable and not far off from a pre-production unit tested by our QC dept in Cypress last week.

We saw brightness range from 580 to 800 lumens depending on lamp setting and color temp, CR from 13,400 to 17,550 depending on CT, Mode and lamp power setting. These tests were done in a lab environment with state of the art, calibrated equipment, so I trust their readings. Also, testing was done in the middle of the zoom range.

As for brightness variation with zoom setting, after measurement it seems safe to say that at the short end of the zoom you'll exceed spec, at the long end you'll be a little under, maybe 7-10%.

Standard ANSI CR was right where it was expected to be...quite good and in line with the max that the human visual system can resolve in one scene.

Cheers,
post #56 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

CRT has poor ansi contrast: often: 70-80:1 but has massive ON OFF CR (30,000:1 in a good room). so... something is odd...

I've never measured a properly calibrated CRT that exceeded 10000:1 On/Off.

Is there a visible difference between 13200:1 and 15000:1???

A black level of 0.00114 vs. 0.00100 (given 15 foot lamberts at 100 IRE). A difference of 0.00014 foot lamberts (count the zeros). Maybe in a bat cave with fully dark adapted 10 year old eyes. Maybe... Break out the black flannel body suits, don't wear glasses, and turn off your cell phone!
post #57 of 451
Thread Starter 
Some other news that I forgot to post. Convergence was better than 1/2 pixel in the center of the image and seemed to be consistant across the image although this was a cursory inspection. Factory D65 was off a bit and the color temp was a little low at 100 IRE. This could lower lumens and CR but not enough by itself that when it's corrected would raise lumens to 700 and on/off CR to 15k:1.

Also as I mentioned at the beginning but just to reiterate, these are preliminary measurements taken from a unit right out of the box. The numbers may go up as the reviewer tries to squeeze some more performance out of it, but the numbers won't go down. The numbers are also accurate (this same reviewer has measured on/off CR on a Pearl at 15,500:1 (autoiris) with the same equipment and setup). If the reviewer finds something that causes the ANSI and on/off CR to go up significantly then he'll post it so others can benefit from it.

More info should be coming in (if not today then right after Christmas).
post #58 of 451
Mark and Tom,

Thank you for all your hard work and time you guys have put into getting all the info you have. Much appreciated.

Have a Happy and healthy Christmas.
post #59 of 451
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstites View Post

As for brightness variation with zoom setting, after measurement it seems safe to say that at the short end of the zoom you'll exceed spec, at the long end you'll be a little under, maybe 7-10%.

Tom, thanks for reaffirming that the data is in the ballpark. Even if the on/off CR holds true at a little under 15k:1 these are still awesome numbers. JVC should be quite proud of this achievement and rightly so. I think people will also be happy with the positive news about lumen variation vs throw as this was a concern for some.
post #60 of 451
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex512 View Post

Mark and Tom,

Thank you for all your hard work and time you guys have put into getting all the info you have. Much appreciated.

Have a Happy and healthy Christmas.

Christmas?! Is it really that time of the year?! I haven't stuck my head out from my monitor since the EH Expo which come to think about it was a little over a month ago... hmmmm.... yeah that would end up putting us at LATE DECEMBER! OH MY! GOTTA RUN!!!! BYE!! OH Yeah and Merry Christmas too!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP › JVC RS1 review!!! (of sorts)