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JVC RS1 review!!! (of sorts) - Page 12  

post #331 of 451
12/31/06 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomAir View Post

I am actually not happy that JVC didn't include a manual iris, it is a simple option for giving the user control over the light, especially when you have such a high light output as the JVC seems to have.

Completely agree. Thanks for your thoughts.

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post #332 of 451
12/31/06 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I have tried a lot of ND filters, and have only been satisfied with the glass absorptive filters. I found that the Gel, or Plastic filters degrade the image, but the glass filters, which you can get with anti-reflective coating, work best.

Thanks for the advice. Where did you purchase from? Do you tilt filter? Any other tips on installation?
post #333 of 451
12/31/06 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder View Post

Thanks for the advice. Where did you purchase from? Do you tilt filter? Any other tips on installation?

I purchased mine from Edmund Optics:

Edmund Optics

The only downside to these square filters, is that they are tiny. I was using them with my C3x, which had no lense threads, so I built a little frame using blocks of wood, and would slide it into the light path. I never tried tilting it, but it probably was tilted a little anyway, since my frame was pretty rudimentary.

They also sell, threaded lense filters:

Edmunds Threaded

This is what I am eyeing now, but we need to ask JVC if there are threads on the lense to accept these, and if so, what the thread diameter is, so we can select the correct filters.
post #334 of 451
12/31/06 at 8:53am
I seem to recall earlier on the question about threads on the RS1 was asked and the answer was No.
post #335 of 451
12/31/06 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomAir View Post

I am actually not happy that JVC didn't include a manual iris, it is a simple option for giving the user control over the light, especially when you have such a high light output as the JVC seems to have.

I am NOT happy about adding things in the the light path, anything that is added will potentially degrade the image. However 500-700 lumens is way to much for my 82" screen, 20fL+ is IMO to much for movie viewing in a dark room, i would like around 12-15fL.

The good thing is that even though you have to add a filter now, later when the lumens drop due to the lamp you can still have great light output by removing the filter.

Exactly how i will do with the filter i don't know right now, i don't have much experience with the "placement" of filters, and i haven't practically analyzed how it affects the image, all i know is that i don't like to add things in the light path.

All this could be solved with a manual iris, WHYYY

Sorry i couldn't help with the ISCO lens and the ND filters, i don't have the practical experience with them to offer any good advise

PS: I know that by adding a manual iris you also add an extra element in the light path, but i believe that JVC would have done it in a better way then me adding some ND filter.

The more features the better. However we need to keep in mind that this is a budget projector - at least budget in the sense that it is priced very aggressively considering its technical capabilities.
post #336 of 451
12/31/06 at 9:01am
I do not think I'll use a ND filter as I'll have low 20s for ftL with my 106" diag Firehawk and will just run in the low lamp mode initially. The extra black level would be nice but I'm thinking probably not worth the trouble of a ND filter especially if there are no threads. Also keep in mind that even though the black level is twice as bright without the ND filter so is the white level. I've found in the past that perceptually the black level looks just as black when very bright objects appear on the screen.
post #337 of 451
12/31/06 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I do not think I'll use a ND filter as I'll have low 20s for ftL with my 106" diag Firehawk and will just run in the low lamp mode initially. The extra black level would be nice but I'm thinking probably not worth the trouble of a ND filter especially if there are no threads. Also keep in mind that even though the black level is twice as bright without the ND filter so is the white level. I've found in the past that perceptually the black level looks just as black when very bright objects appear on the screen.

I agree, if it can keep the price down I am happy and i don't want to ask much more from what seems to be the PJ i have been waiting for

For you I understand about not using a filter, from Cine4homes numbers 600 is the minimum amount of light from "normal" mode, and that is 30fL on my screen , And that is a way to high for movie watching IMO, not because of the blacklevel but the sheer brightness of 25-30fL is to high for me.

12-17 is what I like to have.

So probably it will be a ND filter, or since this is a 1080p PJ I may reduce my viewing distance and go with a larger screen.
post #338 of 451
12/31/06 at 9:16am
lovingdvd,

the firehawk you have has a 1.15 gain, with a substrate that allows for an overall better black level for pj's that would otherwise be "weak" in this department. Since the RS1 is rumored to throw very good blacks as it is, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. I'm considering going the same route but I'm afraid this combination of "too much" black level with this pj would offset or bias the overall black level and skew the dynamics of the image too much to be compensated for through calibration at lower ire's. One would think that an appropriate onsite calibration would push the appropriate levels of light in the right direction, "sufficient enough" but.... who knows.
post #339 of 451
12/31/06 at 9:47am
Lovingdvd and Zoomair: thanks for the comments.
screen gain is imho inevitable for large screens such as 120-170" (16/9 or 21/9). given the aging of the lamps, the high definitionwe know have that screams for large screens.
Gain however can reveal compression artefacts, noise more than neutral screens (1.0).
It's as usual a compromise (i think the gain reveals more the deffects of the sce than a brigther projector, am i right ? say 700lumens pj +1.4gain vs 1100lumens pj on 1.0 gain screen).


J Kotches: hi (nice mag, i'm a subscriberf ). you "doubt" the "produced" units will
offer the results reviewed by Cine4home ?
the HD2H and the HD10K both matched the nrs advertised. (the HD10K especially).


cheers
Dave
post #340 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomAir View Post

I agree, if it can keep the price down I am happy and i don't want to ask much more from what seems to be the PJ i have been waiting for

For you I understand about not using a filter, from Cine4homes numbers 600 is the minimum amount of light from "normal" mode, and that is 30fL on my screen , And that is a way to high for movie watching IMO, not because of the blacklevel but the sheer brightness of 25-30fL is to high for me.

12-17 is what I like to have.

So probably it will be a ND filter, or since this is a 1080p PJ I may reduce my viewing distance and go with a larger screen.

For me it's about 34 fL, assuming 600 lumens because I have a High Power screen netting me a 2 gain. I would like to cut this in half - will have to figure out what lens I'll need.

With a manual iris, wouldn't there also be some benefit with higher on/off contrast and not just reduced output?
post #341 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:10am
zoomair: First, thanks for the explanation about contrast ratio and white/black level. It was very clear and simple.

second: Rather than put an nd filter in your light path, I think you need a much larger screen. Whats with 82"? Put that 1080p baby to work!
post #342 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder View Post

For me it's about 34 fL, assuming 600 lumens because I have a High Power screen netting me a 2 gain. I would like to cut this in half - will have to figure out what lens I'll need.

With a manual iris, wouldn't there also be some benefit with higher on/off contrast and not just reduced output?

Depends, for DLP it has a significant impact on ONOFF if properly implemented, how the light travels within a DLP PJ can draw advantages from a manual iris system, using a dual iris system like that of the Sharp can with a DLP have great advantages in ONOFF.

However for other technologies, the difference in ONOFF is not as significant, it will more serve as a "light control".

With the iris on the HS50A i measured about 600:1 in OFF and 800:1 in ON, so it will have an impact on ONOFF.
post #343 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMovies View Post

zoomair: First, thanks for the explanation about contrast ratio and white/black level. It was very clear and simple.

second: Rather than put an nd filter in your light path, I think you need a much larger screen. Whats with 82"? Put that 1080p baby to work!

I know, i want to, have to see how the room condition is like, trying to fit a larger screen
post #344 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMovies View Post

zoomair: First, thanks for the explanation about contrast ratio and white/black level. It was very clear and simple.

second: Rather than put an nd filter in your light path, I think you need a much larger screen. Whats with 82"? Put that 1080p baby to work!

I agree. If you can fit it definitely go with a larger screen!
post #345 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:21am
LCoS (especially at 1080p) will easily accomodate 1x screen width viewing distances.
post #346 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomAir View Post

Depends, for DLP it has a significant impact on ONOFF if properly implemented, how the light travels within a DLP PJ can draw advantages from a manual iris system, using a dual iris system like that of the Sharp can with a DLP have great advantages in ONOFF.

However for other technologies, the difference in ONOFF is not as significant, it will more serve as a "light control".

With the iris on the HS50A i measured about 600:1 in OFF and 800:1 in ON, so it will have an impact on ONOFF.

I was thinking about Ruby as well. With iris clamped down versus being open, it increased on/off from 3k to 5k, a rather significant jump. Wouldn't the same be possible with the RS1?
post #347 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishon View Post

lovingdvd,

the firehawk you have has a 1.15 gain, with a substrate that allows for an overall better black level for pj's that would otherwise be "weak" in this department. Since the RS1 is rumored to throw very good blacks as it is, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. I'm considering going the same route but I'm afraid this combination of "too much" black level with this pj would offset or bias the overall black level and skew the dynamics of the image too much to be compensated for through calibration at lower ire's. One would think that an appropriate onsite calibration would push the appropriate levels of light in the right direction, "sufficient enough" but.... who knows.


fishon - yes I've definitely been thinking about this and am leaning toward upgrading my screen to the StudioTek 130. Full details about this plus many other people's thoughts here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9183675
post #348 of 451
12/31/06 at 10:59am
From what I've read, the DILA/SXRD LCoS pj's have fewer screen artifacts than dlp's (with their dithering, etc.), so a large, high gain screen (such as the Dalite HiPower) works better with the former than with dlp's. Can any of you guys confirm this? I'm planning on a 126" diag HiPower with my RS1.
post #349 of 451
12/31/06 at 11:11am
600 lumens on a 110" (96x54) screen should yield close to 16fL. For me, when I get an RS1, I will consider the Snomatte 100 and at a 10' front row (15' rear) seating distance, all should be good. Currently with my 9500LC, at 12', I can see the scan-lines at 1080i. I definitely want to avoid any sparkles from screen gain coatings, I want to stay with a white screen and at 10' viewing, I don't want any interference with 1080p HD resolution.

I would want to stay away from the DI, I have heard a lot about color/white balance shift with the use of DI.
post #350 of 451
12/31/06 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

From what I've read, the DILA/SXRD LCoS pj's have fewer screen artifacts than dlp's (with their dithering, etc.), so a large, high gain screen (such as the Dalite HiPower) works better with the former than with dlp's. Can any of you guys confirm this? I'm planning on a 126" diag HiPower with my RS1.

yes, dithering is a lot more visible with high gain.
this is another advavantage of D-ILA: no added 'noise'. very very natural colorimetry also.
post #351 of 451
12/31/06 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

From what I've read, the DILA/SXRD LCoS pj's have fewer screen artifacts than dlp's (with their dithering, etc.), so a large, high gain screen (such as the Dalite HiPower) works better with the former than with dlp's. Can any of you guys confirm this? I'm planning on a 126" diag HiPower with my RS1.

You will be doing a table mounting? The High Power is a retro-reflective screen, gain is directed back to the light source. It functions like reflective tape and reflectors on cars. From Da-Lite "The moderate viewing angle and its ability to reflect light back along the projection axis make this surface the best choice for situations where there is a moderate amount of ambient light and the projector is placed on a table-top or in the same horizontal viewing plane as the audience."

You may want to look at the Ulrtamatte 200 from Stewart for a ceiling mount.
post #352 of 451
12/31/06 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

600 lumens on a 110" (96x54) screen should yield close to 16fL.

Its actually a bit more than that, and over 20 with most positive gain screens.
post #353 of 451
12/31/06 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Its actually a bit more than that, and over 20 with most positive gain screens.

Yes, mathematically, 21.66 for a 1.3 gain, White screen, with 100% efficiency, you won't get that with a gray screen. Then there is bulb wear...... then there is a matter of the 600 lumens being the output when properly calibrated. Output does change with the color of white. You will be getting close if it is 600 lumens at D65 at the installed distance.
post #354 of 451
12/31/06 at 12:11pm
I have to laugh at the different perspectives on the RS1's brightness.

"Why can't they make it brighter?!"

followed a few days later by

"Why can't they include a manual iris and lens threads to help us make it less bright?!"

Both valid requests for particular users, but you gotta feel for the product managers at these companies. Sure, we'd all like infinite lumens that we can whimsically dial down as much as we'd like to suit our taste/room/screen/source/mood. Maybe with the RS4...

-tony
post #355 of 451
12/31/06 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbacos View Post

I have to laugh at the different perspectives on the RS1's brightness.

"Why can't they make it brighter?!"

followed a few days later by

"Why can't they include a manual iris and lens threads to help us make it less bright?!"

Both valid requests for particular users, but you gotta feel for the product managers at these companies. Sure, we'd all like infinite lumens that we can whimsically dial down as much as we'd like to suit our taste/room/screen/source/mood. Maybe with the RS4...

-tony

if you bring enough money, you can have what you want......... Tony, I agree with you. I is something like a person going in to buy a Corvette, then complaining that it doesn't perform like a Ferrari.
post #356 of 451
12/31/06 at 12:29pm
Does anyone know what the gain is on a digital light grey screen from Screen Goo? I think I remember my dealer telling me it was 1.3. Can't get in touch with dealer!

Free, my screen is 94" diag. PJ will be back approx. 11'. Do think I will need a ND filter for the RS1? Room completely light controlled. Even just recently bought some limo tint for all the LED's facing the screen.
post #357 of 451
12/31/06 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

You will be doing a table mounting? The High Power is a retro-reflective screen, gain is directed back to the light source. It functions like reflective tape and reflectors on cars. From Da-Lite "The moderate viewing angle and its ability to reflect light back along the projection axis make this surface the best choice for situations where there is a moderate amount of ambient light and the projector is placed on a table-top or in the same horizontal viewing plane as the audience."

You may want to look at the Ulrtamatte 200 from Stewart for a ceiling mount.

Yes, will be mounting the RS1 on a stand just behind and above our heads. So the HP should be optimum performance.
post #358 of 451
12/31/06 at 1:34pm
count me in as another one being really excited about the jvc rs1. i trusted you guys many years ago with the g11 (yup still got it) and i'm getting the feeling that the rs1 will be my next projector but can someone clarify something about ansi for me please.



i'm really confused with the ansi spec. the rs1 is 268 but the pearl listed on the b&h page is 900?

but there are posts saying that they are on par?

what am i not understanding?

thanks
post #359 of 451
12/31/06 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bosng View Post

c...
i'm really confused with the ansi spec. the rs1 is 268 but the pearl listed on the b&h page is 900?

but there are posts saying that they are on par?

what am i not understanding?

thanks

The 268 number for the JVC is ANSI CONTRAST.

The 900 number for the Sony is ANSI LUMENS.

Two entirely different measurements. Also, 900 lumens is a Sony marketing number, not the light output measured from calibrated projector.
post #360 of 451
12/31/06 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Since I am using a 120" Silverstar, the image is reasonably bright, and the black level is considerably improved. I thought I needed a projector as bright as the Sharp with the iris open, but I realize that I was not giving my eyes enough time to adjust to the image at the lower level.

Now, I am starting to think, that I may end up using the RS1 with an ND filter, until the bulb ages a bit, and am very excited about how dark the black level will be.

Free,

I'm using the same screen and given the Cine4home measurements of 600 lumens on the low lamp setting we are looking at 42 ftl without a filter. I plan on using a Hoya HMC ND4 filter for the first 200 hours or so and will initially give me close to 11 ftl.

After this initial lamp period I'll then switch over and use a Hoya HMC ND2 filter. I'll use the ND2 until I feel the image is too dim and remove it and feel like I just got a new lamp from the boost in lumens.

I've also read that lamp's have a variance in brightness approaching 10% so you could end up getting one at either end of the spectrum and have as high as 660 lumens or as low as 540 lumens. Everyone's mileage will vary.

Hoya filters are pretty highly regarded and are said to be some of the best available. This site is where I purchased from on a few different occasions and they were fast and reliable:

http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/coatings.aspx
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