Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 110  

The power consumption is quite low on second gen Toshibas so a small transformer should do the job nicely.




Please send me a PM and we can discuss the possibilities.

Amir...one of the touted advantages over BD and you yourself have argued this is the mandatory support of advanced audio codecs. Now you are praising lossy DVD quality audio. One reason to use HDMI is to allow uncompressed soundtracks at least in PCM form to an outboard receiver. Your competition in videogames allows for converting TrueHD, SACD, DD and DTS to multichannel PCM to receivers that support HDMI 1.1. You said the 360 supports HDMI 1.2a which is the revision to allow the digital transmission of SACD and DVD-Audio bitstreams. Yet now you're saying 2 channel PCM and legacy DD, DTS and WMA *only*. This is mighty confusing.

When LG came out and couldn't be certified HD DVD logo because of the lack of interactive support. Since the 360 add on doesn't support output of the mandatory advanced codecs like DD+ and D-THD why was it able to be certified?

Actually, what I am really telling you is to wait for the spring software update. That should give you a big boost in audio without buying anything or spending a dime. If after that you feel that you are still missing something, then sure, a stand-alone player is the way to go.

Also keep in mind that if you are enjoying Warner/Paramount titles on PS3, they are 640kbps good old Dolby Digital so are you are not getting lossless audio there anyway.



I mentioned the same when people asked to have HDMI.


We really appreciate your support. My request is to hang in there until you experience the software update. It is coming soon and it will provide you with what you might be looking for.


But most people don't need the Elite for better audio. The main reason people should want it is for HDMI video connectivity. The audio will be fixed in the spring update for all of our customers. Current 360 HD DVD audio is reducing dynamic range and that makes the sound worse than it needs to be. The new software unlocks the dynamic range and will give you a pretty big boost in performance.

So please hang in there a bit longer. You have nothing to lose. The software update after all, is free . As crazy as I am about audio, I played my first gen Toshiba player over coax with DTS for a few months before getting HDMI and enjoyed every minute of it. As did thousands of others who praised the audio performance of the player using that connection.

I am not "praising it." I am putting it in context. Lossless audio is not and has not been for the masses. Well, you tell me. Were you suffering with your DVD movie soundtracks? And how many gamers want "lossless" version of the game soundtrack? What are they missing with synthetic audio?

Yes, I can tell the difference. So I go and buy a $10K processor to enjoy that last bit of quality. Does everyone else? Do they even have HDMI?


In case of SACD, that is the craziest thing I have heard! First they say single bit (SACD) sounds better than multi-channel (PCM/DVD-A). Then the production happens in multi-bit PCM because 1-bit editing is hard (and degrades quality). And now, they conver the output back to PCM? What is the point of SACD again? Just some way to add noise to audio to make people think they are getting better sound?


Sorry, I don't follow the question. We don't play SACD/DVD-A. 1.3 is needed to flag the newer codecs which we can't do with 1.2.

This update to VGA output... will it help with TVs that don't offer many picture adjustments
via the VGA input? My set doesn't offer sharpness for one... but the picture over VGA
always looks a little softer and more washed out it seems... does the update fix that or is
that still dependant on the television's input?

Just curious, but where did you get that impression? I was looking forward to the Elite aka "Zephyr" for a long time because of two desires: 1) integrated HDDVD drive and 2) lossless audio.

I realize the former is fruitless due most likely to technical issues (read access speed seems most obvious to me, but if you could confirm or deny, that would be great). The latter jumped ahead when I got a Denon HDMI receiver. Before this, I did consider my 360 and PS3 at audio parity via optical to my old AVR. Since then, the PS3 has taken a definitive lead on the AQ side. Even without the grumbles about the current DD output situation.



Is there a benefit that the Elite would offer over my current component connection other than video upscaling?

dear amirm,

I am runing my 360 at 1080p over vga so in your opinion is the pq a bit better on the 360 elite over hdmi vs. vga, and if so how is the pq better, ie sharpness,etc.

That's why I said "most people," not all . I have fielded many, many questions on this topic. Large majority have been on video side.


I recall us saying that when the console launched. I thought it was an interview with my colleague Todd Holmdahl but I could not find it in a quick search. I am sure someone with more time can find it. Todd is the VP in charge of Xbox hardware development so if he has said it, it counts for something . And yes, the continuous data rate that was higher than blue-laser drives.

Again, that "lead" is probably because of the reduced fidelity of audio in the current software which has NOTHING to do with lossless versus lossy. There is a large dynamic range reduction in current software. Once that is resolved (again, at no cost to you all), I think the perception of many people will change. For the few where the expectations are still higher, then there is a player for half the price of PS3 to serve it.


No, if you are happy with it, you should stay with it. I am driving my Ruby with component and don't see the need to get an Elite myself.

It is hard to say. With some displays, their analog input is softer. With others, that is not the case. In most cases, the difference would be small or non-existent.

Who said you can't get your post count by just staying in the Insider thread .

Maybe we can get a rest for a while from audio topic? At least 'till tomorrow?

dear amirm,

thank you alot for your honesty cause thats the main reason im goinging to trade in my exsisting 360 for an elite 360, now as i understand it i wont be able to transfer my data from my old 360 hard drive to my new one?And do you think it is wise to by a whole new 360 just for hdmi or should i wait for the dash update for the vga fixes?

Thanks for the update amirm. Unfortunately since the Elite can't output 5.1 LPCM via HDMI I no longer see any reason in upgrading my 360 to the Elite model.

I must say I'm very disappointed

Given the fact that the update is coming soon, I suggest checking that out first. It is not like you are sitting there with nothing to watch. The current box is very capable on its own and gets even better with the update. If after trying that, you still need the new box, you can check out the reviews and user feedback and then pull the trigger to upgrade the hardware.

dear amirm,

ok sounds good but just one quick question, is there a way to transer my data from my old 360 hard drive to the new elite 360 hdd?

I know it is odd but I really don't know . I am sure someone in the gaming section would know. Just asked my son and he says that some of the data you can move, others don't seem to work. He says saved games and other settings do move over. What doesn't work he says is some of the things you buy.

ahhh i see so its a real question of wether hdmi is worth it but after trading my 360 the elite 360 is only gonna cost me 50 dollars more than buying the 120gb hdd seperatly, thats the price of a good hdmi cable, so i think im just gonna go ahead and purchase it cause on a 106 in. screen i think ill see a noticible difference between vga and hdmi mainly in sharpness.

In interviews after the announcement other MS folks said there's a transfer cable being sold with the 120GB hard drive that will allow you to transfer all your data to the new drive (but it will erase the previous drive.) Didn't sound like the transfer cable was going to come with the Elite, but they're working on a way for people who buy the Elite to transfer everything over -- perhaps the cable will be sold separately or something. If all else fails i'm sure you could get a cable off e-bay or use craigslist to find somebody who has one and isn't using it.

Amir, Guess what?! I don't have an audio question!!!

Anyway, I know I asked this before the Elite was officially announced, and you likely couldn't answer, so I am hoping I can perhaps get some more information now.

I am excited about the prospect of the 120 Gig hard drive (even if the price makes me do a triple take). I would REALLY love a feature, if I were to buy the 120GB drive, to rip my 360 games to the hard drive. At least rip the 3-5 I play regularly at the time.

As a fellow projector user, you must know that it's kind of a pain to get up and travel a ways from your comfy couch, to slap a game in from a friend request etc. I love the idea for managed copy for HD DVD's, and I am really hoping that maybe Microsoft could lead the way in this department with games before managed copy is officially settled.

Mostly, I am just hoping you can maybe mention that this is or has been considered or if it's been ruled out. Otherwise, I am hoping you can pass it on as a suggestion to the Xbox team.

Thanks for all you do!

Vote and Vent your frustrations here

I't won't make any difference, but wth...

UxiSXRD wrote: Is there a benefit that the Elite would offer over my current component connection other than video upscaling?

Amir wrote: No, if you are happy with it, you should stay with it. I am driving my Ruby with component and don't see the need to get an Elite myself.



So the Elite 360 will upscale DVD's via HDMI? Up to what resolution?

This is not 100% confirmation or anything, but....
Small Kokaktu article showing Elite 360




It look's like the hitachi drive in the above pic....

Perhaps you or Amir would care to illustrate how in more detail using the figures from King Kong here..... ??

Welcome back to the cauldron Amir

I'm guessing this got lost in the flurry of posts since your return so any chance you could address this question??

Regards, Ian.

Dear Amir

Sorry for being a nudge here. But did you miss this question or are you unable to respond for some reason?

If you don't have the answer or not allowed to, I'm completely fine with it.

From what Albert over the Xbox department said on many podcasts in the last few days, the seperate 120 Gig HD release will come with a transfer cable, which will move all your data from your 20 gig HD to the 120 Gig HD and erase the 20gig one. For those wanting to upgrade to the elite system, they are working on a solution for that as your game content is tied to your 360 hardware.

Any insider...

What makes a clean (no scratches, no dust) optical disc not play? Is it the physical disc, the software on the disc, the hardware in the player or the software in the player?

Has the problem been mitigated in any way now with the HD DVD and blu-ray discs?

Any insider willing to comment ...

It was inevitable anyway, but the purported reason why hackers so quickly compromised the BD & HD DVD copy protection was the refusal of those software players to play full resolution over VGA and/or component video connections, even though ICT has not been turned on.

Supposedly new software players may be required after the AACS changes in the April/May time frame. Has everybody learned their lesson and decided those new PC software players may play full resolution this time on the next generation? Or will the software players still be unnessarily crippled compared to standalone players?

- Tom

Ahh, finally a straight answer and it also confirms all of my worries. The Elite is just a Premium with a digital audio to HDMI converter bolted in.
Now I am a little happier keeping my existing Xbox 360 because without true HDMI PCM capability, it does nothing to help me. And, hopefully, the audio upgrade in the Spring update will help the other issues so that is good news.

It now looks like the Elite was only created to answer bullet points off the back a PS3 box. It must be nice that Microsoft can say they both have HDMI when in fact the two are worlds apart audio wise. If that is the true goal, and there really isn't any technical improvements, why not release the Elite back during the PS3 launch?

Since I already have an A1, I'm not too disappointed but it would have been nice to have the XBox360 as a true HDDVD system to fall back on.

dear Amir,

does the HDMI video output of the Xbox 360 Elite support 1:1 resolutions like the VGA (for example 1366x768)? And does it upscale DVD movies to those resolutions?

Amir,
Many of us that are using crt projectors with the vga connection see and know of the broken video timing issue, we see it. Some of the best in the crt projector field are using the xbox because of the clean incredible image it puts out.

But, we are hoping that this will be addressed and fixed, it would make the 360 perfect, imagewise. To take the 360 to the next level there are some mods that can be done to it to improve the image it puts out, but, I won't discuss them here. If you don't know what you are doing you could destroy your xbox.

I am using a highly moded 9" (Marquee 9500) crt projector with the 360 and just love it, and amaze anyone who happens to see it.

Amir, I hope you can look into this further and find out if they will correct the timing problem. Thanks