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Industry Insiders Q&A MASTER THREAD [separate thread for Xbox/Add On & PS3] - Page 18  

post #511 of 4841
Amir,

Is there anything built into Vista specifically for decoding (or aiding/accelerating) the high-quality audio on HD DVD discs?

XP requires either a software decoder (which usually downmixes to 2.1) or a hardware solution (sound card or integrated sound w/ Dolby decode) for actual Dolby Digital surround output.
post #512 of 4841
Amir,

Thank you for posting here (as well as all insiders, but this question is for Amir).

Matt Stevens posted a few pages back about the Studio Canal release of Basic Instinct, specifically about the audio being higher pitched than any other release (people are incorrectly quoting PAL speedup as a cause, but we all know that it's 1080p24 and PAL doesn't come into it).

I am wondering if this is an issue with the master, the authoring, or the player maybe reencoding the core DTS out of DTS-MA on these discs (since DTS-MA isn't really supported yet on the HD-A1/XA1). Others are stating problems with other Studio Canal releases, but this title is the only one I'm having problems with (out of two owned (Total Recall being the other)).

I realize this may take some time for a response, but please let us know that it's being looked into.

Again, thanks!
Ed
post #513 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

Up until now, TL was a layer on the "other" side, wasn't it?

Are they coming up with a true third layer here, one that is closer to the surface rather than deeper? That would be a non-DVD replication process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

The third layer is on the surface of one half. So no, nothing is on the actual surface of the disc. We are still talking about two .6mm halves being fused together, yielding faster cycle time than molding a thick substrate as BD does. And we still enjoy the same natural protection a deeper recording system provides.

But you are right that is not precisely the same process as current DVD. It adds some level of complexity. But these discs will still be cheaper and easier to produce than BD-50

I think there is some confusion about where the layers are in DVD and HD-DVD. In DVD and HD-DVD dual layer discs, a layer is molded one the surface of each 600 micron thick part. These parts are then bonded back to back with the molded pits in the center of the disc using an optically transparent 'glue'. When done so, the two pit layers are only microns apart in the center of the disc (55 +- 15 for DVD and 20 +- 5 for HD-DVD). Both layers are read from the same side of the disc.

So the HD-DVD stack order from laser entry surface is:

~600 micron polycarbonate
Layer 0 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (optical grade 'glue')
Layer 1 pits with fully reflective coating.
~600 micro polycarbonate

For DVD-18 and HD-DVD > 2 layer combination discs, you mold a second layer on top of the first layer on each part using a special process (BD50 requires this for its second layer).

So a HD-DVD- 30/DVD-9 combo or (DVD-18) stack would look something like:

~580 micron polycarbonate
Layer 0 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (2P or other material)
Layer 1 pits with fully reflective coating.
glue
Layer 1 pits with fully reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (2P or other material)
Layer 0 pits with partially reflective coating.
~580 micro polycarbonate

A HD-DVD-51 stack would probably look like:

~580 micron polycarbonate
Layer 0 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (2P or other material)
Layer 1 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (optical grade 'glue')
Layer 2 pits with fully reflective coating.
~600 micro polycarbonate
post #514 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

I'm still confused. How would five layers work if two are on one 0.6mm half, one is on the other? Where do the other two go?

Gary

Shore explained it nicely . The key being that when we use the term layer, we mean all the layers that can be read from one side. If some are on the other side, we don't combine the layers (as we don't have to punch through the other layers to read them) and instead, call them double sided discs.
post #515 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsHT View Post

What about these Warner Total HD disc's using BD50's?

Unfortunately, they are even more complex than regular BD discs so chances of THD discs coming out with BD-50 on one side is very low in my opinion. The cost is also much higher although Warner argues that making to seperate packages is expensive which I agree with.

Quote:


Its doubtful that Sony will replicate these discs with an HD DVD side on them so will they rely on MEI creating these disc's or will they force everything to 25g disc's or start creating BD50's on there own?

Neither Sony or MEI will come near such a disc as they would have to make HD DVDs and neither wants that on their resume . So an independent replicators needs to first master BD process and then combine it with HD DVD. And as you indicate and my note above, chances of this happening with BD-50 is very low at this point.
post #516 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokeith View Post

Amir,

Is there anything built into Vista specifically for decoding (or aiding/accelerating) the high-quality audio on HD DVD discs?

Vista has a new secure pipeline for decoding of content such as HD DVD (we designed it with AACS in mind).

Quote:


XP requires either a software decoder (which usually downmixes to 2.1) or a hardware solution (sound card or integrated sound w/ Dolby decode) for actual Dolby Digital surround output.

All of that applies to Vista just the same as people can just run their XP players on Vista.

We do however, offer our OEM (PC) partners optimized and high quality DD decoder so if they use that, they can get better quality product.
post #517 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by enchntr View Post

Amir,

Thank you for posting here (as well as all insiders, but this question is for Amir).

Matt Stevens posted a few pages back about the Studio Canal release of Basic Instinct, specifically about the audio being higher pitched than any other release (people are incorrectly quoting PAL speedup as a cause, but we all know that it's 1080p24 and PAL doesn't come into it).

Sorry I missed that point. To be absolutely clear, the Toshiba player only handles 24p, not 25p. So no one can speed up the video PAL-style, even if they wanted to (25p support comes later this year but even so, we think movies will continue to be encoded for 24p).

Quote:


I am wondering if this is an issue with the master, the authoring, or the player maybe reencoding the core DTS out of DTS-MA on these discs (since DTS-MA isn't really supported yet on the HD-A1/XA1). Others are stating problems with other Studio Canal releases, but this title is the only one I'm having problems with (out of two owned (Total Recall being the other)).

I realize this may take some time for a response, but please let us know that it's being looked into.

Again, thanks!
Ed

This is the first I have heard about this problem. If you can give me a link to the postings I will get it in front of the right people to investigate.
post #518 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by shore View Post

A HD-DVD-51 stack would probably look like:

~580 micron polycarbonate
Layer 0 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (2P or other material)
Layer 1 pits with partially reflective coating.
20 micron Spacer layer (optical grade 'glue')
Layer 2 pits with fully reflective coating.
~600 micro polycarbonate

Thanks! So if HD DVD-TL is doable, then it could also be TL 30/4.5 or 15/9 hybrid? Therefore hybrid doesn't have to be flippers.

How about the Total-HD? Since the BD layer is so close to the surface, is TL-HD DVD/DL-BD possible?
post #519 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by lffisher View Post

I also asked this question several times. Can anyone answer it?
For example, Sony just put out a 70" XBR TV with 10 bit x.v.Color. Does that TV need to interpolate the extra color bits, or does HD DVD / BluRay already have 10 bit color?

Or do we need to wait for more improvements in HD DVD / BluRay format to take advantage of HDMI 1.3 and 10 bit color?

What about on the XBOX HD DVD with its 1080p VGA out? Can that output 10 bit color if the format supports it?
O

As I think Ben commented, what is on disc is 8-bit and can not benefit from any new color space or higher resolution. However, to the extent the player does any video process and that includes compositing interactivity graphics, that output could be done using deeper color depth to avoid contouring and such. So the benefits are there, but rather small. I certainly would not base a purchasing decision on them with regards to what is on HD DVD/BD.
post #520 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012 View Post

I realize this question was not directed at me, but I can answer it. The Sony press release (which you can read here) which was released before the player was available to purchase, clearly states that the player would not play BD-J content until an update was made available in 2007. No need to test the disc on the Pio or Sony, everyone already knew that the disc wouldn't work on those machines yet before they were even sold.

Well, Talk claims that is not the problem but a firmware bug in the players. If it is a firmware bug, then it is clear that the content was not tested on them.

Of course, you could be right that the player is not BD-J compliant and the bug is much more of an ugprade than a bug. But then we have to decide if we believe what Talk is telling us about the nature of the problem. Don't we?
post #521 of 4841
Has anyone at CES announced or demo'd an HD DVD authoring software suite/package for consumer PC?
post #522 of 4841
No comment on the Merridian debacle? I'd have thought dealing with that issue would have been the first port of call.
post #523 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S View Post

Anyone in the HD-DVD camp care to comment on this?

Well, it seems that he is uninformed about his company's decisions. As you can imagine, press releases do not go out without completely sign off from both sides and extensive reviews at executive levels. I personally worked with Bob Meridan on this and I can share with you that he and rest of the company is totally excited about being the first high-end company to support HD DVD and being the pioneer in digital A/V products as they have been. And to my knowledge, have no plans to support BD format.

I have a message into Bob to get the above corrected.

Quote:


I have to say I was suprised by the announcement as both Meridian and Arcam (another UK audiophile brand) have consistently stated in the UK hifi press that they don't see either HD format as viable for them yet, and have generally condemned the format war...

Well, they have seen the excellent progress that HD DVD has made. And more importantly, the excellent quality we bring to the table. A year ago they were indeed going to stand on the side line. But not now.
post #524 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Unfortunately, they are even more complex than regular BD discs so chances of THD discs coming out with BD-50 on one side is very low in my opinion. The cost is also much higher although Warner argues that making to seperate packages is expensive which I agree with.

can you answer this hypothetical...

summer 2008.... Warner wants to print 1million "new title" movie for HD-DVD and Bluray... what would be more costly out of pocket

making 500k HD-DVDs and 500k Bluray discs (and subsequent packing/shipping/distribution) vs 1m Total-HD?

It seems like Total-HD would be desired from the manufacturing, distribution, retailer right down to customer, nevermind allows a flexible inventory (you don't need to worry about PS3 buyer habits, or what % to press of each type).
post #525 of 4841
Guys, I have to run to the show.... It is my first chance to walk the floor!!! So please let me enjoy that a bit and I will try to chime in later....

Thanks!
post #526 of 4841
Question to any insider that can address it:

Was Universal under a time-exclusive contract for HD DVD only content?
post #527 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Unfortunately, they are even more complex than regular BD discs so chances of THD discs coming out with BD-50 on one side is very low in my opinion. The cost is also much higher although Warner argues that making to seperate packages is expensive which I agree with.

Neither Sony or MEI will come near such a disc as they would have to make HD DVDs and neither wants that on their resume . So an independent replicators needs to first master BD process and then combine it with HD DVD. And as you indicate and my note above, chances of this happening with BD-50 is very low at this point.

Thanks Amir and I agree unless Warner starts making there own BD50's, we can expect only 25g layers for the BR side on these total HD discs.

I know this will probably only be your opinion/guess but do you think Warner would then also find it easier to only use 15g layers for HD DVD rather then using 30g disc's?

As a dual format owner I have seen good movies on both 25g BR and 15g HD but thats not to say I want either format limited to these disc sizes.

Warner said they expected about half of there future releases to be on these discs and I see that as a worry that content and quality will be limited by these smaller sizes. Additional they think us consumers are going to pay more for this and there giving us less.
post #528 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Well, it seems that he is uninformed about his company's decisions. As you can imagine, press releases do not go out without completely sign off from both sides and extensive reviews at executive levels. I personally worked with Bob Meridan on this and I can share with you that he and rest of the company is totally excited about being the first high-end company to support HD DVD and being the pioneer in digital A/V products as they have been. And to my knowledge, have no plans to support BD format.

I have a message into Bob to get the above corrected.


Well, they have seen the excellent progress that HD DVD has made. And more importantly, the excellent quality we bring to the table. A year ago they were indeed going to stand on the side line. But not now.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Who is Bob Meridian? The owner/founder of Meridian is Boothroyd (Bob) Stuart.
J
post #529 of 4841
Maybe he meant Bob Stuart at Meridian who co-founded the company with Allen Boothroyd.

http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/906bob/
post #530 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Well, it seems that he is uninformed about his company's decisions. As you can imagine, press releases do not go out without completely sign off from both sides and extensive reviews at executive levels. I personally worked with Bob Meridan on this and I can share with you that he and rest of the company is totally excited about being the first high-end company to support HD DVD and being the pioneer in digital A/V products as they have been. And to my knowledge, have no plans to support BD format.

I have a message into Bob to get the above corrected.


Well, they have seen the excellent progress that HD DVD has made. And more importantly, the excellent quality we bring to the table. A year ago they were indeed going to stand on the side line. But not now.

Amir,


Can you suggest to your contacts at Meridian that they issue a formal press release? It would be helpful to have a confirmation about their plans and also whatever details they can provide.

I just checked their web site and I couldn't find anything.


Thanks.
post #531 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Sorry I missed that point. To be absolutely clear, the Toshiba player only handles 24p, not 25p. So no one can speed up the video PAL-style, even if they wanted to (25p support comes later this year but even so, we think movies will continue to be encoded for 24p).


This is the first I have heard about this problem. If you can give me a link to the postings I will get it in front of the right people to investigate.

Amir-

Thanks for looking into this. The threads are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=783777

People seemed to have confirmed it on Basic Instinct, Total Recall, Rambo I and II. Hopefully you can check on this issue and have it trouble shooted so it doesn't happen on future releases.

Cheers,
Chris
post #532 of 4841
Um, it seems weird that a company could be "Really excited" about a product and have their press admin not know about it. Since this is the only comment actually from Meridian, can any insider get an actual statement from Meridian?
post #533 of 4841
In truth, the two founders are Allen Boothroyd and Bob Stuart. Boothroyd did the industrial design and Stuart did the electronics.
post #534 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_S View Post

Also, doesn't Blu-ray spin slower to get the same bitrate off disc due to the higher density?

What on earth is the point of HD in cars? Unless you have a stretch hummer with a 42inch screen, what possible benefit could HD bring to ICE?? I'm totally missing the point on that one.

It is one of convenience. Unless you are telling me that you will buy some discs in both BD and SD, you are going to find situations where you want to watch the movie in a car (think Kid's programming). Resolution is not as much of a driver as much as portability of the content.
post #535 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

In truth, the two founders are Allen Boothroyd and Bob Stuart. Boothroyd did the industrial design and Stuart did the electronics.

Thank you for clearing that up.
J
post #536 of 4841
Question for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Insiders,

I hope you may have an answer for this (It might have been asked already). Now that it's been a while with both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD on the PC market, and now that the HP HD-DVD drive has been released and we can see there is an official supported solution for HD-DVD on PC, does anyone know how the various HD-DVD playback solutions (Cyberlink, Intervideo, Windows Vista etc) offer Dolby TrueHD sound/DTS-HD master for PC output? Standard sound cards such as the Audigy 2 and Xi-Fi have 3 analog stereo plug connectors that feed 5.1 and sometimes 7.1, 8.1 sets of speakers or amplifiers. They also have optical and coaxial digital outputs as well. Is there a solution for getting proper full Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD master for PC? Can the Creative Xi-Fi handle this or do they have a solution in the works? Or are we going to have to settle for Dolby Digital+ remixed for DTS output or some other solution. Are there going to be any PC audio solutions to provide real Dolby TrueHD output? Like perhaps from Niveus? Is it possible under Windows XP or only Windows Vista?
post #537 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

Amir,
Can you suggest to your contacts at Meridian that they issue a formal press release? It would be helpful to have a confirmation about their plans and also whatever details they can provide.

Yes, they are right on it. Bob is trying to get a hold of his web team to post the press release on their site. He thinks it may take a day or so though. They are also working to take down the incorrect info on the blog.
post #538 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J View Post

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Who is Bob Meridian? The owner/founder of Meridian is Boothroyd (Bob) Stuart.
J

Sorry, too little sleep. Meant Bob Stuart....
post #539 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Well, it seems that he is uninformed about his company's decisions. As you can imagine, press releases do not go out without completely sign off from both sides and extensive reviews at executive levels. I personally worked with Bob Meridan on this and I can share with you that he and rest of the company is totally excited about being the first high-end company to support HD DVD and being the pioneer in digital A/V products as they have been. And to my knowledge, have no plans to support BD format.

What is Bob Meridan's position with the company?
post #540 of 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Sorry, too little sleep. Meant Bob Stuart....

Gotcha.
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