My first experience with Denon - mixed reactions

I went out and bought a Denon AVR-687 this week to replace the old receiver. I have to say overall that the Denon has some advantages and disadvantages.

I went through the auto-calibration, which was actually pretty accurate on first try. I made a few tweaks to fine tune it to DVE and to my own liking.

My major gripe with this one, and i'm not sure if this is just Denon receivers overall, but there is a real lack of "punch" with bass. The advantage is that it has a fairly smooth and balanced sound - the highs seem very balanced with the lows. The criticism i have with this is that you're not "feeling" a lot of the soundtrack. I calibrate the subwoofer fairly even with other channels, but when doing this I typically feel a lot of the sub interacting with the soundtrack.

My previous entry level JVC, when calibrated to the same levels carries a much meatier bass to it, and creates a soundtrack that you can "feel" more. While I always set crossover at 80db, you felt much more bass with the JVC further up the frequency spectrum. This was without bass EQ adjustment, it was just how the receiver naturally sounded.

I wanted to trade up the JVC because the sound was a little tinny for lack of a better word. While there was a great deal of subwoofer/bass interaction with an even calibration, there was a slight push of both highs and lows.

I was deciding between an Onkyo receiver and this moderately-priced Denon. The salesman at Circuit City said the Onkyo gives a real push of bass, but at the same time pushes high's as well. He said the Denon was more ideal for HT since it had a better balance of frequency, no push of one frequency in particular. The frequencey sweep on DVE reflected this. While the response was not 100% flat (my room has some treatment), it was flatter than what my old receiver produced.

I still have to say that while the Denon has a more natural sound overall (not tinny like the JVC), there is a very conservative feel to it. The bass is really kept on a leash. While I calibrate the sub to be 3 db's hotter than the others (i calibrate 13 db's higher using DVE), you really are not feeling a lot of bass to the soundtrack with an exception of the really low effects such as explosions.

While I do like the realistic sound, the conservative bass is a real hamstring to me. I haven't made up my mind, i'm considering either exchanging the Denon for an Onkyo SR604, or going back with my JVC. I want to give the Denon a chance, as i may need to get used to it. But perhaps I might be one who appreciates that slight push of bass that other receivers offer.

Has anyone had this experience with Denon, or at least with this 687 model? I'm going to give it a chance for a while. I did a pretty thorough setup, and went through most of the settings, so I don't believe I missed anything with the setup.

I did the automatic calibration and a manual one. I settled on combining both. The sub I'm 90% sure is calibrated to the right level. I even tried boosting it a few db's as a test and all it does is make the lowest of tones tones stronger. You really don't feel much of the subwoofer interacting too much with anything above 40 Hz. Sure, you hear the presence above that, but I really find myself wanting something heartier.

It is a very balanced sound overall, but i find myself just craving a meatier bass. Sure, you can boost the "bass" control but that doesn't add too much for a receiver that naturally doesn't push that at all.

An example - in Matrix Reloaded, during the "Burly Brawl," as Neo twirls 180-degrees in the air and kicks one of the Smiths, I'm used to hearing a fairly rich yet smooth bass as he does this. Part of it's still there now, but it's not pulsing at all, or should i say I only feel a little of it. I guess the point is, with this receiver, you can calibrate bass to the same SPL as my old JVC, but not feel nearly as much presence.

I've gone through and turned off enhancements and what not, so there shouldn't something hidden that i've missed. I'm still going to keep playing around with this one.

Soundlovr - I set it to "normal" as opposed to "LFE + main." All my speakers are set to "small." The "LFE + main" setting is for large speakers only i thought. Meaning, the speakers will play the lower freq. if speakers are set to large, but with this setting active, the sub plays them as well. The manual basically says this only applies to "large" speakers, as mine are all set to "small."

I just tried this setting. It does sound better, but is it now feeding my main speakers the full range? Since all my speakers are set to small, what is this setting doing?

There have been infinite posts about this feature. A lot of folks are confused on this. This can all be explained by insufficient explanation in the manuals.

I have all speakers set small, but the "+ main" seems to add some bass to the soundtrack. Whatever the case the soundtrack is a little fuller with this activated. The Denon manuals are very poorly written and really don't explain things well. Since my speakers are set to small, this should eliminate the "+ main" choice. I would have thought that with this setting activated, it bypasses the crossover I set for the main speakers, and gives just those 2 speakers a full range.

This does not make sense though. This setting works for the subwoofer in allowing it to play the bass that other "large" speakers are playing, if in fact your speakers are set to large. I'm not talking LFE, i'm talking bass management. So this effects what the subwoofer plays, not the reverse. If your speakers are set to small, this should have NO effect on what the other speakers play.

To throw another guess out there - what if this setting is a default which always allows the subwoofer to handle bass, whatever size your speakers are. In other words, if you wanted to set a crossover of 80db and allow the sub to handle the low freqs., then you would have to set "+ main" in the menu. In the manual it obscurely says at the bottom of one of the pages, that if you want the subwoofer to handle bass (independent from LFE) then you must activate the "+ main" feature.

This echoes a lot of my thoughts.

This receiver is a true example of how equipment ha great effect on the sound. My old JVC was so tinny-sounding it began to hurt my ears. The Denon corrects a lot of this, then again, I think a lot of newer receivers would correct this as my last machine was bought 8 years ago.

I love the smoothness of the Denon sound. At the same time I dislike the way it handles bass. I think it's a personal opinion. The bass is very very smooth on this one. It's definitely there, but it lacks a little of the punch I was looking for. My JVC had a very tight yet hearty bass to it when it was calibrated to same db levels as i did with the Denon. You felt everything without having to run it hot. With the Denon you feel very little. You feel presence of bass but it is a smoothness bordering on conservative.

I've run manual calibrations several times, and am still playing around with settings just to make sure i have not missed anything. I want to give this one a full chance. Denon is a reputable model - although perhaps it's not for everyone.

The good thing is i have another 25 days to switch it up with something else. At this point the other option would be either Onkyo, or possibly Yamaha based on reviews and what i'm looking for.

soundlovr - The fellow above is actually partly correct. On some other Denon systems it is impossible to set "LFE/main" with speakers set to small. In this case there is something slightly different going on. It looks as if you set LFE + main on mine, that the receiver feeds extra bass to the front mains even if they are set to small. I compared the types of sound I would get - between setting large speakers to small on "LFE - normal", and setting speakers to small using "LFE + main." The outcomes of each were 2 different results so i'm not sure how it is effecting the system exactly.

I've read many threads about this and many are confused about it.

I tried running an auto-calibration again. (paying more attention to which settings it chose, as opposed to levels). I also turned off "auto-surround" and re-set one of the amp settings (a setting which routes from zone2, front, surround etc). For some reason now, everything improved. Speakers are still set to small w/ 80 crossover, but there is plenty more bass interaction with the midtones now. Prior, I was only hearing bass thumping with the lowest of tones. Basically midtones were suffering, and to me there's nothing worse than weak midtones and poor bass crossover.

I'm not sure what affected what, but sound is much fuller now coming from all speakers. Before it sounded like each speaker just wasn't hitting those low tones that they should have been doing with an 80db crossover.

I'm glad i've stood it out with this receiver as the persistence has definitely paid off. I could not be happier with the sound now. I complained about the bass being on the smooth side. Although now that the crossovers are nice and smooth well into the midtones, I actually appreciate the smoothness of it now. You certainly can feel it without it seeming overwhelming and boomy. That's the trademark of Denon apparently, keeping an even emphasis on all tones. This certainly is the smoothest sounding receiver i've ever heard. SInce i have sensitive ears that is a good thing.