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Will DVD-RAM recordings play on other DVD players?

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
Folks --

I am sure this has been explained before on this forum, but my head is swimming with all the information here and I can't immediately find anything answering this. I just bought a Panasonic DMR-ES15, and it can record DVD-RAM format, among others. This machine, if I understand it correctly from what others have said, allows you to do some extra things (like making chapters, things like that) that using other media won't allow. But, I've heard others saying that DVD-RAM may be a format that goes away, only works on Panasonic products, etc.

So, my question is, if I want to archive home movies, would DVD-RAM recordings play on other standard DVD players, or no? If they will, then I might use RAM disks to archive. Otherwise, I will use other media. I simply don't want to go through the archiving effort, only to find that DVD players won't play that type of recording. I am somewhat confused by all the different types of media, and their compatibility with other machines/recorders/PCs etc.

Thanks,
Steve
post #2 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

Folks --

I am sure this has been explained before on this forum, but my head is swimming with all the information here and I can't immediately find anything answering this. I just bought a Panasonic DMR-ES15, and it can record DVD-RAM format, among others. This machine, if I understand it correctly from what others have said, allows you to do some extra things (like making chapters, things like that) that using other media won't allow. But, I've heard others saying that DVD-RAM may be a format that goes away, only works on Panasonic products, etc.

So, my question is, if I want to archive home movies, would DVD-RAM recordings play on other standard DVD players, or no? If they will, then I might use RAM disks to archive. Otherwise, I will use other media. I simply don't want to go through the archiving effort, only to find that DVD players won't play that type of recording. I am somewhat confused by all the different types of media, and their compatibility with other machines/recorders/PCs etc.

Thanks,
Steve

DVD-RAM plays fine on my Panasonic DVD S52 Player, also you can use DVD Factory 5 to copy to DVD+/-Rs others use DVD-Rs in place of DVD-RAM
post #3 of 42
Thread Starter 
CCRomeo --

I assume "DVD Factory 5" is a computer software program? I do have 2 DVD decks, one a burner the other a player, on my PC. Can I put the DVD-RAM into the player drive, and copy to a DVD -R or +R in the burner drive, by using this software? Or is it more complicated than that?

Steve
post #4 of 42
I would think it all depends wether your Computer can play RAM Discs or not?

Just like with DVD Players some can play RAM discs & others can't & it just isn't Panasonic's that can play RAM discs other companies like Samsung & etc can play RAM discs but you have to check each model number to see if they will & even some of Panasonic's DVD Players can't play RAM discs.

I have a Panny Player that plays RAM discs & what I usually do is Record on RAM discs on my recorder then edit out the commercials on the recorder & then play them back on the player & copy (Dub) them to -R discs on the recorder.

Yes there is a little loss in copying but I don't find it that bad especially because I put 4 Hour episodes or 8 1/2 Hour episodes on a -R disc using the "FR" Recording Mode (Speed) & I'm more than happy with the picture quality.

If I do record something that's "Special" to me after I dub it from the RAM disc (Usually at SP or XP) to a -R disc I save both of them just incase I want to make another copy from the RAM disc & I use the -R disc to play & watch.

Your best bet if you want to make your own chapters & etc is to do it on a computer but it can take up a lot of time depending on how many discs you are recording & saving.
post #5 of 42
The -RAM format was invented by Panasonic, and has been supported by only a few other manufacturers. There are even reports that the very lowest end Panasonic DVD player won't play -RAM disks, but I can't confirm that. The format has been around for a while, and despite some reports of its demise, support for it is actually INcreasing, not decreasing.

As far as standard DVD players go, your chances of any one being able to play a -RAM disk are not too good. I really don't know what brands of DVD players will support -RAM disks, other than Panasonic.

Because -RAM disks are really useful for computer storage, the majority of computer drives understand and can use them.
post #6 of 42
This years entry level Panasonic DVD "Player" Will NOT PLAY DVD-RAM discs.

As for DVD Recorders I thought "ALL" the 2006 models from Japan or Korea could Record & Play RAM discs except Funai & Sony & with Sony it's because Panasonic hates them & won't let them use the RAM Format.

After Philips got burned by the companies in China using the +R format I don't think you'll ever see Panasonic letting them use the RAM Format & I think it will be a long time if ever that you see China being able to use the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Formats because Japan is going to keep all the money from those Formats for themselves especially after seeing China cut the heck out of Players & Recorder prices/profits plus never paying Philips for the +R Format.

I always thought it was too bad that Pioneer & Philips had to come up with their own formats because then every DVD Player & Recorder would have used the RAM Format & maybe then Panasonic would have let China just make DVD RAM Players but not Recorders & then we would have had one DVD Recording Format with no "Finalizing" & etc that would have played on Everything
post #7 of 42
Check VIDEOHELP.COM for a list of 58 models that play dvd-ram, including Pioneer 433. Note, not all players that play dvd-ram will play dvd-ram type 2 or type 4 (dvd-ram in the cartridge).

Happy New Year.
post #8 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

This years entry level Panasonic DVD "Player" Will NOT PLAY DVD-RAM discs.

As for DVD Recorders I thought "ALL" the 2006 models from Japan or Korea could Record & Play RAM discs except Funai & Sony & with Sony it's because Panasonic hates them & won't let them use the RAM Format.

After Philips got burned by the companies in China using the +R format I don't think you'll ever see Panasonic letting them use the RAM Format & I think it will be a long time if ever that you see China being able to use the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Formats because Japan is going to keep all the money from those Formats for themselves especially after seeing China cut the heck out of Players & Recorder prices/profits plus never paying Philips for the +R Format.

I always thought it was too bad that Pioneer & Philips had to come up with their own formats because then every DVD Player & Recorder would have used the RAM Format & maybe then Panasonic would have let China just make DVD RAM Players but not Recorders & then we would have had one DVD Recording Format with no "Finalizing" & etc that would have played on Everything

I have to agree with everything you have said. Phillips developed the +R format to avoid paying the royalties for the -R to the developers. Then the Chinese took the +R format and used it without paying royalties to Phillips. Sounds like a soap opera. I agree that after this, the developers of Blu-Ray and HD DVD will keep VERY tight control.

Maybe my statement that the chances of a -RAM being able to be played on a "random" DVD player are "not to good" was inaccurate. It depends on the age of the machine. Newer machines are more likely to be able to play -RAM, while older ones are less likely. Panasonic players will almost surely be able to play them, while Sony players won't.
post #9 of 42
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the info everyone.

To ask a related question -- I have a 3-year old Dell PC with a CD/DVD player, and a second DVD drive which is a recorder. If I have a DVD-RAM disk recorded from my Panasonic player, and ASSUMING my PC's DVD drive can play DVD-RAM format, is there a specialized software which I'd need to have, in order to "dub" from the DVD player drive to the DVD recorder drive, or will whatever software came with my PC do it. I've never tried this before, and wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks,
Steve
post #10 of 42
Assuming the pc drive reads DVD-RAM disks, you still need a software driver to read DVD-RAM video discs. I think XP has the driver by default, but no matter what you can download the driver for free from Panasonic, so that's easy. Do a google search for it. Let us know if you can't find the website.

To "dub" the DVD-RAM is a bit more complicated. If you want to convert the RAM disc into normal DVD-Video format for maximum compatibility, than you need special software which costs money (at least $100). You might be able to pull it off with freeware, but it takes lots of work and knowledge.

If you just want to copy the DVD-RAM disc as is, that is, maintaining the DVD-RAM video structure, than that should be doable with freeware or inexpensive software. It could be as simple as ripping the disc image using ISO mode, and writing the image to a new disc. I'm don't know whether you are required to use a RAM disc for the image copy. I haven't tried it yet with a non-RAM disc.
post #11 of 42
While DVD-RAM is available in other dvd recorders, on stand-alone DVD players it is mainly Panasonic players that play DVD-RAM (any others?). All the CES-2007 Panasonic DVD players (including the two portable ones) play DVD-RAM (see the CES - Panasonic threads here or in the dvd players forum for the press release links, or panasonic.com/pressroom).
post #12 of 42
Hi,

I've been using my new Panasonic DMR-ES15 for a week or so now and love it. One thing that has become evident is that the DVD-RAM format is FAR superior to the other rewritable formats such as DVD-RW and DVD+RW.

With DVD-RAMs ability: 1) record and playback simultaneously (chase playback is great!), 2) edit recorded video right in your DVD recorder (create chapters at will, etc.), 3) write to the disc 100 more times than with +/-RW, 4) offers superior reliability due to its "defect management" feature, ... I mean, with all of these very hip features why isn't DVD-RAM compatibility being incorporated across the board by all the major manufacturers (other than Panasonic and a few others)? I really don't grasp what the downside is (??).

Thx for any insight,
~ peace, Kevin J.
post #13 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

... As for DVD Recorders I thought "ALL" the 2006 models from Japan or Korea could Record & Play RAM discs except Funai & Sony & with Sony it's because Panasonic hates them & won't let them use the RAM Format...

That's very interesting, Bill, because at least some Sony notebook computers have Pioneer burners that will record to RAM. Actually, the same Pioneer burner is in Toshiba and HP (maybe others) notebooks as well. It's the notebook DVD supermulti drive. Maybe Panasonic puts it loathing of Sony aside when it comes to computers (which Panasonic either does not make or merely not for the U.S. market).
post #14 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzdrums View Post

... With DVD-RAMs ability: 4) offers superior reliability due to its "defect management" feature, ...
Thx for any insight,
~ peace, Kevin J.

Kevin: This is something I can comment on after having used a JVC DVD recorder that had the loading error problem. The first time I experienced this problem, which is well documented here, I had a DVD-RAM in the machine on which I had recorded an hour program at LP the evening before. When the loading error message finally went away, the program on the DVD-RAM was gone. The second time I got the error another DVD-RAM, on which I had two TV movies recorded, was on the machine. Again, when I was able to get rid of the error both movies were gone (and I packed up the mache and later dropped it off at JVC's service center in NJ).

It was these two experiences that made me question how safe DVD-RAM was compared to DVD-RW (or +RM). I figure it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Although I use DVD-RAM in my notebook for backup of files, I really only use them rather than DVD-R because I have a supply due to once owning a Panasonic and that &%*# JVC.
post #15 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngohit View Post

That's very interesting, Bill, because at least some Sony notebook computers have Pioneer burners that will record to RAM. Actually, the same Pioneer burner is in Toshiba and HP (maybe others) notebooks as well. It's the notebook DVD supermulti drive. Maybe Panasonic puts it loathing of Sony aside when it comes to computers (which Panasonic either does not make or merely not for the U.S. market).

There is a (new?) Sony stand-alone (external?) DVD burner from Sony that is super-multi-format and supports 18x DVD-R/+R, -RW/+RW and -RAM. It is advertised in this week's Sunday paper and I saw it in-store in at least one of the super stores. I think one of those places has it for under $100 after rebate. So Sony does write -RAM!

Maybe Panasonic will start using MemorySticks now? (just kidding on the last sentence).
post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzdrums View Post

Hi,

I've been using my new Panasonic DMR-ES15 for a week or so now and love it. One thing that has become evident is that the DVD-RAM format is FAR superior to the other rewritable formats such as DVD-RW and DVD+RW.

With DVD-RAMs ability: 1) record and playback simultaneously (chase playback is great!), 2) edit recorded video right in your DVD recorder (create chapters at will, etc.), 3) write to the disc 100 more times than with +/-RW, 4) offers superior reliability due to its "defect management" feature, ... I mean, with all of these very hip features why isn't DVD-RAM compatibility being incorporated across the board by all the major manufacturers (other than Panasonic and a few others)? I really don't grasp what the downside is (??).

Thx for any insight,
~ peace, Kevin J.

Items #1 and #2 are true for Panasonics, but that's only because Panasonic does not write DVD-RW(VR mode) on its recorders. Others manufacturers are capable of doing that with DVD-RW(VR mode). I do not have an opinion on #3 or #4
post #17 of 42
Sony has a bunch of RAM-compatible burners here.
post #18 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

...if I want to archive home movies, would DVD-RAM recordings play on other standard DVD players, or no?

In my opinion, you'd be better off sticking with DVD-R for two reasons:
  • It's more compatible with other players. DVD-R will play on just about anything, whereas DVD-RAM playback is not universal. Part of this is due to the physical media, and part of it is due to the use of VR-mode which was not part of the original DVD spec and still doesn't have universal support on players.
  • I believe (and others will likely disagree) that DVD-RAM is a niche product. Although lots of recorders support it, not many people actually use it as evidenced by the scarceness of DVD-RAM discs (just compare the number and variety of DVD-R media to that of DVD-RAM media in any store). Based on this, I'd be concerned about continuing support for the format. It's true that there's not likely to be a serious issue here as it's pretty cheap for a manufacturer to include DVD-RAM support in a drive's firmware. But experience has taught me that if you're trying to pick a media format that will last a long time then go with the leader of the pack. You can still buy cassette tape machines, but 8-tracks are nowhere to be found. The leader of the pack right now is DVD-R so that's what I'd chooose.
post #19 of 42
Independent of my opinions on DVD-RAM (Sean, I think you know where I stand on this) - I'm not sure it is valid to compare a rewriteable format such as DVD-RAM with write once media such as DVD-R. It's apples and oranges because the two media are serve different purposes and are used differently.

As far as DVD-RAM is concerned - two comments > 1) I really like VR mode regardless of whether we are talking DVD-RAM or DVD-RW. I happen to prefer DVD-RAM only because Panasonic does not support VR mode writing on DVD-RW media (which has a slight per disc cost advantage vs. DVD-RAM though I've found that DVD-RAM is less suseptible to damage than DVD-RW discs). 2) I'm not sure your "niche" product comment is consistent with increased support of DVD-RAM writing capability in today's generation of DVD burners. I would say well more than half the burner models available today support DVD-RAM. If anything, based on increased hardware support, DVD-RAM popularity appears to be on the upswing rather than on a decline. I have no solid evidence to support this claim however.
post #20 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari View Post

If anything, based on increased hardware support, DVD-RAM popularity appears to be on the upswing rather than on a decline. I have no solid evidence to support this claim however.

I have no solid evidence either, and this is purely my opinion. It's true that hardware support is increasing, and you'd kind of expect that since it's basically free to include the feature (just additional firmware and a possibly a small licensing cost). But my "niche market" comment referred to actual DVD-RAM use, not availability of hardware. And I base that on the very small amount of DVD-RAM disc stock carried carried in stores compared with DVD-R and even DVD-RW.

It's kind of like TVs with screw-on antennae connections. Up to a certain point all the TVs had them, but obviously not everyone actually used them. In fact over time fewer and fewer people used them, until now they have been removed from TV sets altogether. I'm not saying that DVD-RAM usage is declining in the same way, but I wouldn't be surprised if for every 100,000 DVD-RAM capable machines you could only find 5,000 users who had actually purchased DVD-RAM discs.

I doubt there's any way we'll ever really know for sure, but in the meantime I'm sticking with DVD-R for archving...
post #21 of 42
Maybe off topic, -RAM on dvd players, but a big advantage of -RAM is that it is the only format that can be high-speed copied back to the hdd (at least on the Panasonics).
post #22 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT View Post

Maybe off topic, -RAM on dvd players, but a big advantage of -RAM is that it is the only format that can be high-speed copied back to the hdd (at least on the Panasonics).

Actually- Pioneers-2005-06 can high speed back DVD-RW to their HDD and produce a lossless dub to a DVD-R. I also have tested that my 2003-4 Panny HDDs CAN record a DVD-RAM and transfer it at high speed to my 2006 Pio 640 HDD unit AND produce a lossless DVD-R. And vice versa. BUT Panny non HDD units will not do this to an HDD unit of any brand.
post #23 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGuy View Post

Actually- Pioneers-2005-06 can high speed back DVD-RW to their HDD and produce a lossless dub to a DVD-R. I also have tested that my 2003-4 Panny HDDs CAN record a DVD-RAM and transfer it at high speed to my 2006 Pio 640 HDD unit AND produce a lossless DVD-R. And vice versa. BUT Panny non HDD units will not do this to an HDD unit of any brand.

I may not be reading this right. Does this mean that a DVD-Ram recorded on a non HDD Panasonic cannot be high speed dubbed onto another brand HDD DVD recorder?
post #24 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1313 View Post

This years entry level Panasonic DVD "Player" Will NOT PLAY DVD-RAM discs.

As for DVD Recorders I thought "ALL" the 2006 models from Japan or Korea could Record & Play RAM discs except Funai & Sony & with Sony it's because Panasonic hates them & won't let them use the RAM Format.

After Philips got burned by the companies in China using the +R format I don't think you'll ever see Panasonic letting them use the RAM Format & I think it will be a long time if ever that you see China being able to use the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Formats because Japan is going to keep all the money from those Formats for themselves especially after seeing China cut the heck out of Players & Recorder prices/profits plus never paying Philips for the +R Format.

I always thought it was too bad that Pioneer & Philips had to come up with their own formats because then every DVD Player & Recorder would have used the RAM Format & maybe then Panasonic would have let China just make DVD RAM Players but not Recorders & then we would have had one DVD Recording Format with no "Finalizing" & etc that would have played on Everything

Samsung and LG are both Chinese Companies and are Using BlueRay and HD DVD Formats Currently. In fact LG is using both formats. Just an FYI
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveg66 View Post

Folks --

I am sure this has been explained before on this forum, but my head is swimming with all the information here and I can't immediately find anything answering this. I just bought a Panasonic DMR-ES15, and it can record DVD-RAM format, among others. This machine, if I understand it correctly from what others have said, allows you to do some extra things (like making chapters, things like that) that using other media won't allow. But, I've heard others saying that DVD-RAM may be a format that goes away, only works on Panasonic products, etc.

So, my question is, if I want to archive home movies, would DVD-RAM recordings play on other standard DVD players, or no? If they will, then I might use RAM disks to archive. Otherwise, I will use other media. I simply don't want to go through the archiving effort, only to find that DVD players won't play that type of recording. I am somewhat confused by all the different types of media, and their compatibility with other machines/recorders/PCs etc.

Thanks,
Steve

Trying to make is simple... DVD-RAM is a great format for editing but unless you have a house full of DVD-RAM compatible DVD Players (most are not), or plan to use the discs on DVD players that play DVD RAM Discs and use them on a PC with a DVD-RAM compatible drive (most aren't) stick with the DVD-R or +R Disc. Unless you can take the disc to your computer for editing then you can use the -RW or +RW formats copy to computer, edit recordings and burn back to a DVD (alot of time in my opinion) . If you want to completely create your DVD disc on your DVD Recorder, I would recommend a unit with a hard disk drive.
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari View Post

Independent of my opinions on DVD-RAM (Sean, I think you know where I stand on this) - I'm not sure it is valid to compare a rewriteable format such as DVD-RAM with write once media such as DVD-R. It's apples and oranges because the two media are serve different purposes and are used differently.

As far as DVD-RAM is concerned - two comments > 1) I really like VR mode regardless of whether we are talking DVD-RAM or DVD-RW. I happen to prefer DVD-RAM only because Panasonic does not support VR mode writing on DVD-RW media (which has a slight per disc cost advantage vs. DVD-RAM though I've found that DVD-RAM is less suseptible to damage than DVD-RW discs). 2) I'm not sure your "niche" product comment is consistent with increased support of DVD-RAM writing capability in today's generation of DVD burners. I would say well more than half the burner models available today support DVD-RAM. If anything, based on increased hardware support, DVD-RAM popularity appears to be on the upswing rather than on a decline. I have no solid evidence to support this claim however.

Reguardless of opinions DVD-RAM is more the exception than the norm industry-wide.
post #27 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonGuy View Post

Actually- Pioneers-2005-06 can high speed back DVD-RW to their HDD and produce a lossless dub to a DVD-R...

Same holds for the 420/520H, Pioneer's 2004 models.
post #28 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

I may not be reading this right. Does this mean that a DVD-Ram recorded on a non HDD Panasonic cannot be high speed dubbed onto another brand HDD DVD recorder?

No, a DVD-RAM program recorded on a Panasonic non-HDD recorder CAN be H-S dubbed to the HDD of Panasonic and Pioneer recorders (if they support DVD-RAM). What you can't do is then H-S dub that program from the HDD to a DVD-R, because H-S dubbing was not enabled on that program. Only when a program is recorded on a Panasonic HDD recorder, with H-S dubbing enabled, can that program be H-S dubbed to a DVD-R disc. Non-HDD Panasonic recorders cannot enable H-S dubbing on programs recorded onto DVD-RAM.
post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by goots1 View Post

Samsung and LG are both Chinese Companies and are Using BlueRay and HD DVD Formats Currently. In fact LG is using both formats. Just an FYI

I thought that they were Korean companies...
post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara View Post

I thought that they were Korean companies...

Correct. LG and Samsung are Korean companies.
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