Pioneer Elite 50 plasma or Sony XBR2.........

I give the PQ nod to the elite 50. But since you'll only be using it for gaming, I'd personally buy the sony.

I woukld say Pioneer overall..Definetly have to be more careful if you do go that route since Pioneers glow bbrighter than any other plasma so image retention is more liikely..

I freakin love my XBR2 46 incher. I had a 4253 Samsung and it had horrible image retention even after 300 hrs of breaking in. GO WITH THE LCD you will not regret it!

I would say:

Gaming - get the Sony xbr2, lcds are great for gaming

but for the best PQ (HD, and DVD's) - plazma would be the best.

If you do a little of everything then it's a very tough call. PQ is most important to me so I'd lean towards the plazma.

i vote for the xbr2 for best pq for gaming and movies.

darks are plenty dark on this lcd and where lcd shines is brightness.
colors look vivid and natural. whites are pure white.

plasmas have deep black but takes a big hit in the brightness department which overall dulls the image compared to lcd. less natural colors. burn in, reflections, higher cost in 1080p variety.

go for the xbr2/3

Why not ask the question here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767932

Every current Sony LCD I've seen this year has a terrible cloudy backlight problem - bad for PQ.

Yes, paticularly if you're viewing much SD or non-HD DVDs. You may want to pull the chair a bit closer if you've got a quality HD source and want to be "immersed" in the "experience", but for general use it should be fine.

Mine purchased two months ago from the Rockville, MD Circuit City has had no such problems. It is a perfect set!

Anybody who thinks the Elite plasma has less natural colors or suffers in any meaningful way in the "brightness department" compared to any LCD doesn't know what they're talking about.

Hee-Hee...but Bosng believes that he does. No point arguing.

Last time around Woodrow stopped all our fun ....but I doubt we were the culprits.

To the OP...your situation was made for the XBR2. Sure you get the bigger screen with DLP but you also get sweet spot viewing only, bulb replacement costs, larger form factor, possible 'rainbows' etc.

If you get a cloudy Sony take it back.

I love mine and have had no such problem FWIW

I was in a similar state as you.

Kids, bright room and still watch a fair amount of SD.
12 feet away from my 46 is perfect for SD and sometimes I move closer for HD if I really want to.
I can watch SD with bars on the side all day and not worry about IR--I think a part of why SD looks not so good on HD sets is any attempt at stretching.

Look at viewing angles and room brightness to help you make your final choice.

so anyone who disagrees with you on what a good picture is has to be wrong?

such enlightenment. you are trying to tell me that the pioneer elite is brighter than a sony xbr2/3?

somebody is in fantasy land.

the pioneer elite may be bright enough for you but i challenge you to keep it next to an xbr2/3 and still tell me it doesn't look a bit dull in comparison.

whites don't look as white and vibrant and that effects all colors thoughout, in direct comparison to the xbr2/3 lcd.

if you don't want to believe it. don't look.

Disagree entirely. No way LCD has more natural colours than plasma. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. Plasma is more natural-looking than LCD because it can produce more colours. He needs at least a 50" TV at that viewing distance, and plasma has the best PQ for large screen sizes. However, as gaming will be the main use (why no HD??), the LCD is probably better. When will LCD proponents stop spreading false information about plasma? Burn-in is not a concern any longer

Just read bosng's post. I don't think overall brightness is the issue - the most natural PQ is. And plasma still holds that crown in larger screen sizes. LCD's still have a "digital" look that is not entirely natural.

I don't believe hondo21 said the Elite was brighter by any means. Let's review:
Looks like he said it doesn't suffer from a lack of brightness, which is true. Both sets can be adjusted for brightness, and LCD tends to run a bit brighter. Shoot, you could probably turn a LCD up high enough it would burn your retinas out You said darks are plenty dark on this lcd - do mean lcd produces better blacks than plasma!? [/joke]

The plasmas typically have a more natural look, perform excellent for gaming and movies (very often better than lcd), and has better black levels. You mention burn-in....well with higher-end and newer plasmas this is just not an issue anymore. The few cases I've seen were resolved quickly with watching a different station or source.

Go for plasma, go Elite.

just because a set can do more colors doesn't mean the colors will better or more accurate.

sure the elite pioneers are nice but to me the colors look muted when compared directly to a good lcd. that's just how i see it, you can too if you just stand in front of the two side by side and keep an open mind.

look mostly at scenes where "light" especially natuarl light ie: sunlight. the effect is most noticeable in outdoor bright sunglight, cast shadows etc. look at how the two sets reproduce what you know. how light hits surfaces, it's intensity and vibrancy and see which one is the more convincing.

i've done this many times and always walk away with the impression that lcd is the better one for this kind of comparison.

deep blacks is where plasmas outperform lcd, especially with their high contrast ratios but that isn't enough for me to switch over because the blacks on sony lcds are more than adequate.




lcd's come in 52", 50", 57" sony,samsung,sharp. all in 1080p


not probably, most assuredly.



i guess that's why avs has the "MASTER BURN IN THREAD" as a sticky

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=608677




natural in terms of the way light is displayed. does sunlight look real (and bright).
not muted and overcast(tendency for plasma) in direct comparison to lcd.

plasma never had the crown imo.

don't know what you're referring to when you say digital but you can always turn sharpness down a notch if a sharp lcd is too much for you.

Yeah, whatever. You have a box of 12 Crayolas and I have a box of 24 Crayolas. Not only can I produce more colors than you, I can blend my colors to produce a more accurate picture.

You are mis-representing plasma panels and I'll let the girls below show everyone why. Show me which ones are muted, don't show natural light ie sunlight convincingly, and looks muted and overcast which you say is a tendency for plasma. I also guarantee you that the plasma can be considered as good if not better for gaming since they do not have the refresh rates like LCD does. Many LCD owners complain of juttering with the LCD and gaming. As for the master burn-in thread, It is actually the " MASTER BURN-IN/BREAK-IN THREAD: ALL POSTS HERE ONLY!" thread. The majority of that is newbs coming on scared from what they've heard in the past or from Pro-LCD people that tell them it is a problem. It used to be an issue, but just isn't anymore unless you bought a cheap, cheap set. That thread is for Break-in too, with a ton of people asking a ton of questions about that. The fact is people are paranoid about break-in...which doesn't have to be done either.

There are some good LCD sets out there too, and I try not to bash them, but you make it hard not to want to retaliate. I've got to point out that the things you are trying to convince people about plasma are of a majority false. You may want to come back at me with "a couple of these pics look a little soft", so I must disclaim that taking photos of a television is hard to do and produce a clean copy. But you've got to admit, even if that weren't the case, these pics still do a great job of making my point.

The only thing I can think has happened to you is that you've been viewing plasmas with the settings all screwed, or you are just so Pro-LCD that you can't give in to some of the obvious abilities of plasmas.

Girls,
Please show bosng what I'm talking about....

Burn in is still prevelant and I have seen this first hand. Had a 4253 sammy and a 4260u panny and both were broken in properly for 500+ hrs then decided to play a little madden and NBA 2k7 on it with settings of below 50%. Played for an hour and was like sweet, turned to white wash (screen) and bam I see the EA Madden logo and NBA score bar pretty clearly. I run white wash on the sammy and tv fuzz on the panny both for an hour or so. Come back still there. Long story short 2 months later they are still visible despite me only playing them on each TV ONCE! Gave the Two plasmas to my folks and bought a 46 inch XBR2 and couldn't be happier. I play Rainbow six, Madden, NBA 2k7 for hours on end and there hasn't been one problem with the set!

Yeah the PQ on a Plasma can be nice, but properly setup this LCD can match the best that I have seen and you have no fear of IR or BI. Don't let people tell you BI is a thing of the past because it isn't or they have gotten a "lucky" set. If it was a thing fo the past warranties wouldn't strickly say they don't cover burn in and provide warnings on it.

I guess that makes me even happier I went with the Elite. I play Gears and COD on it all the time and can't find a lick of IR on it. Being a gamer that would want to push me towards LCD too, but I still don't think I am just a lucky one. Maybe you were just unlucky...twice.

I guess I should correct my earlier statement. It used to be a larger issue, but just isn't as big a problem anymore unless you either bought a cheap, cheap set or didn't go with the Elite.

Get the freaking Pioneer.

GET IT.

hahahahahaha!!!!! good one!

of course there is no real comparison unless you get the side by side image with similar sources.

each one of those photos have a very greyed out element to them. sublty making the day look overcast.

first and third being the worst offenders

second looks just weird. hopefully it's just some gold sheen makeup.

last one is the more natural looking one in the bunch but does anyone else think it weird that the hair on the gal (far right) is crushed into nothingness? no detail whatsoever? is that a limitation on the camera? just doesn't seem right.


next to an lcd this same material i believe would look much more natural. taking off the veil of added grey/blue-ish tone and adding that extra ummph of vibrancy.


i don't knock plasma for the fun of it either. sorry if that's what it seems like. i believe this is just the truth. prove me wrong please. i'm not impressed.

and yes taking good photos is tricky. how close do you think you've gotten with those pics? my guess is that they are far from what you see and you wish you could do it more justice.

i know. i've been there.

ok using your analogy of crayolas. if i have 10,000 crayons and you have 15,000 crayons but i was given a sheet of paper that is 100% bright white and you got a sheet that was 70% bright white.

whose image would look kinda dull in comparison?

This is all subjective, but in my own expiraments, beyond pictures on the internet which show little or NO relevance to what I see when I am at home... a Pioneer Elite beats down any LCD TV I've seen period.

(Everyone who takes pictures on these boards are usually awesome. These blacks are NOTHING like what you get when you're watching in the complete dark (movie environment))

I've owned a Westinghouse LCD (returned), and I have a Samsung LCD which is great. I would say neither of them come close to my Pioneer 5071 in the dark. In the daytime with all blinders opened different story of course.

There is no gray/blue overcast... if anything my Pioneer plasma is too green. The Westinghouse LCD's whites are something that I miss... and CRTs and Plasma can't satisfy me in these terms, but the Pioneer does get closer than the Panasonics/Samsungs I've seen.

Bottom line was that the contrast ratio/viewing angles on the Westinghouse left some to be desired. Movies were defintely watchable, but dark scenes just washed out a tad too much for my tastes.

Bright scenes were more than fine, but whenever it got too dark, it just wasn't as satisfying as what I am seeing on my Pioneer now. Not to mention saturation on colors is alot better on the Pio as well. I see a 3-D picture w/ shadow detail.

I could try and match the contrast of the Pioneer by crushing some white and black... but even with that 'dynamic'-ness It didn't match the plasma, AND too much detail was lost.

Do take into account I loved the Westinghouse... and I could watch movies on it and for an LCD it was awesome as a theater machine! I prefer the size even with its faults... vs any Direct View CRT actually.

Guys...I've tried to tell you. It doesn't do a lick of good...spinning your wheels bigtime.

BRIGHT AND NATURAL is where it's at! Just ask bosng.

Apparently bosng sees light in the real world differently than mere humans (no overcasting allowed)...must be so cause his LCD shows it to him.

If you don't know whether to laugh or cry....just ignore.

oooohhh! sorry your feelings got hurt you can't even discuss what is evident in front of your face. anyone can go to a store that has these sets side by side and confirm this but you have to be a baby about it.


see if i care if you ignore me. please do. i won't miss your immaturity one iota.

I was in the same boat as OP. I actually started out wanting the XBR2. I have gone with the Pio 50". I do gaming on it with xbox 360 and the HD-DVD addon. I have no issues with image retention at all. The panel automatically dims it self significantly if something still is left on for an extended period of time (I think 3 mins). With these newer generation plasma, burn-in is much less of a problem. So much so, i don't even think about it.

As for size, from your distance, 46" I would say is too small. I sit 7'-10' away from my 50" and think I could go bigger. So if you wanted to stay with the XBR2, I would say go 52". One other thing that swayed me to the plasma was that I saw motion blur with any fast action items. The XBR2 does a great job with slow moving pictures, but when it came to fast action for me, I saw motion blur.