So sad the best picture probably will not win the war

But isn't the PS3 an awful Blu-ray player?

From the reviews I've read, the PS3 is a very good Blu-ray player -- the 1st with HDMI 1.3 support, although marred with no upconversion support currently.

Actually, the PS3 is considered one of the better Blu-Ray players. You won't get much better out of the Pricey Pioneer or Panasonic. I hate the whole format war, but testing the waters with the lowest cost option of the XBOX360 add-on was well worth it to me.

Wish I had that many HD devices in my house to pick from.

Oh my lord, ANOTHER HD-DVD is facing impending doom topic! Like I said yesterday, gather ALL of your friends who have an inferiority complex together in ONE post and shut up. CheeZ!

To the OP, have Sony's big pockets helped it with the PS3 which has DISMAL, DISMAL sales compared to the Wii? Returns are high, people can't sell them on Ebay for anything more than retail anymore, and it's largely becoming a commercial dismal failure. The ONLY thing Blu-Ray had left was the PS3.

Where did you read that? I've read nothing but the opposite.

I just assumed it was...I mean, it's $600 after all, and none of us would really expect a game machine to do as well as a standalone.

If it's good, then that's cool, gives me a reason to get a PS3.

I have to agree with you here. The only discs that are on-par are Warner's VC-1 encodes, which obviously look identical on both formats. Sadly, Warner nixed the TrueHD tracks on the BD versions, so I bought them on HD DVD.

Kingdom of Heaven looks great and does have a little grain, but not enough that I mind. X-Men is unimpressive, though a lot of that is courtesy of the grainy Super35 film used. Black Hawk Down looks great, though it too has some noticable grain thanks to the post-processing they did to amp up the colors and contrast.

King Kong, Riddick, and U-571 are stunning and I have yet to see a BD that looks as good. BD does have some great audio tracks on BHD and TotS.

Training Day and MI:3 look great on both formats, so BD is certainly capable. A lot of the gripes stem from the quality of the prints and MPEG-2 encoding process. As MI:3 proved, MPEG-2 can look excellent when care is taken to maximize quality. Still, I wish studios would use the best codecs available. In this case, uncompressed pcm audio and VC-1 video.

BD at its best matches HD DVD at its best, so it is impossible for the format with the best PQ to lose.

Come on, picture quality has little to do with the format and almost everything to do with the encoding/mastering. The dual format titles show this well.
The vast majority of independant reviews put the PS3 as an exceptionally good BD player.

OP, why would you say HD-DVD will not win the format war? Sony hasn't been successful promoting any of their previous proprietary formats. Microsoft has developed some very positive exclusive downloadable content deals with WB, Paramount, and CBS that could carry over into HD-DVD. And no matter what Sony thinks... price and consumer adoption will determine the winner of this war,not studios. The studios will fold and go where the money is once the players saturate a market majority.

I'm not saying HD-DVD is a clear winner either. This battle hasn't even really begun. Until players drop below $200 and the average person starts purchasing them, the two camps will continue to battle it out. One thing I will say. Sony has clearly lost it's video game market dominance. Almost nobody is excited or interested in the PS3 save a few Blu-Ray fanatics and PS fanboys. After Sony's sad showing with the PS3 launch, a lot of people waiting for the PS3 have just gone ahead and bought a 360 instead. And most of the hype in gaming is focused on the Wii. The PS3 only has one good game (resistance) and it really doesn't measure up to Gears of War. Sony is in trouble, and their Trojan horse isn't succeeding like Sony assumed. That is why I question why you think Blu-Ray has this war won before it has really started? Blue-Ray was expected to already have grabbed market majority by now. Somehow Sony has found a way to piss Microsoft off and bring them into the fold, fail with the PS3 launch, and also fail to deliver on almost every promise announced in 2006.

since he said it will means he knows for a fact

so in that case its looking more like avs if full of psychic's

You experience is pretty much identical to mine, including the number of BD discs I bought.

Circumstances recently presented me with access to a PS3 60 unit that was really a Christma present for my son. Of course I was curious as to the capabilities of the PS3 with regard to BD playback. Based on all the reviews and hype in these forums, I ended up purchasing eight of the acknowledged top tier titles (KOH, TOTS, X3, Underworld etc) and I was really hoping for parity since I now had the chance to watch every title in high definition. Unfortunately, Only two or three BD titles held their own against their HD DVD cousins. I wish i could understand that ever-present grain and coarseness common in the BR format. Granted, KOH and TOTS were quite good and that tells me there is potential to be better, however, I just can't get used to the "fuzz" and "grain."

On another note, I fear that you are right in that Sony has really deep pockets and has positioned itself quite well with orher studios to eventually gain a monoply. I hope we never see that day I don't particularly like their idea of High Def.

History, as well as the present, has proven that the best doesn't always win. I know a lot of people with "expensive" vehicles that keep them in the shop. They bought them because they were supposed to be better. You know....the status thing. Maybe that's a bad example, but I think Sony has a lot of "status" behind it. Of course, in the end, it may very well end up having the best picture. Who knows? I sure don't.

Here in Canada, futureshop.ca had 1000 Sony PS3's on sale a few days before Christmas. On-line sales only. Just for fun I watched the sales for awhile, hitting refresh every 10 seconds. They sold at a rate of 4 per 10 seconds. A few hours later, I checked the website and they were all gone.
I have an HD A1 and, currently, 39 HD DVD's. I've decided not to buy a blu ray player, not even a lower priced PS3 version, as I'm happy with HD DVD quality.
I am considering looking into buying some of the foreign imports that, in North America, are Blu Ray only.
If I do buy another HD player, it will be a high-end Toshiba, a couple of years down the road.
I think the quality of HD DVD will make it a mainstay in the years to come.

The only thing Sony are relentless about is FUD and viral marketing.

You are probably right!!! Beta was definitely better than VHS (in PQ anyway) and we all know how that ended. Granted, some BR titles have improved of late but without HD DVD as a benchmark would the BDA have improved without such influence? If HD DVD failed tomorrow, I fear that the Sony will not give us their very best because there will be no one to push them. Sony may very well end up with the better PQ but, really, what are they waiting for?

hear hear to the OP, i was dissapointed in KOH as well. Now, I don't really think HD DVD or BD will win/lose anytime soon. The 'war' may seem heated here at AVS, but it has yet to make even a slight dent in the overall home video market

I've read the $1500 Panasonic does look a little better than the other BR players. But, why buy a $1500 Panasonic when a $199 Xbox add-on or a $399 second gen Toshiba player gives you an "equal" (or better?) picture.

Why did this thread start with the idea that HD-DVD won't win? It has a better name (marketing built-in), a better picture (for J6P), and a better price (which is one of the reasons VHS won).

The new Toshiba A2 Amazon rank is #71 today and the 360 add-on is #124 The Sony BR? Ranked #2663. The new Sammy BR? Ranked #1153.

BR at CC looked kind of like a regular DVD to me. The HHGregg guy couldn't get the Sony to boot-up (or maybe it was the famous load time) and gave up on it advising me to look at HD-DVD.

BR claims more storage, but isn't 45g's (triple layer HD-DVD) enough? After all, it's not like a DVD weighs 100 pounds or is the size of a car.

Toshiba has a big CES push planned.

I'm liking HD-DVD's chances.

HD-DVD does not have a better picture than Blu-Ray. There are individual titles out there that may look slighly better on HD-DVD and there are many that look exactly the same - no way is J6P going to tell the difference between the titles that are shared between the two formats.

Saying "Click" doesn't look better than HD-DVD makes no sense since "Click" is not on HD-DVD, so you have no idea what it looks like. Just like some complained about the look of "Superman Returns" (on both formats), they'd complain about "Click". It isn't the format that made "Click" look the way it does (I thought it looked pretty good, but maybe I had low expectations from all the negatives I read about it). You just can't compare titles across formats where one title does not exist on the other. Each film has a different look that has nothing to do with the format.

There are no limitations on the format that prevent titles from looking as good as HD-DVD titles. None. Currently, the best HD title I've seen on both formats (not that I've watched every title - I own plenty of titles on both formats, but have yet to get around to watching them all) is Transporter 2 on Blu-Ray.

The only limitation on the Blu-Ray format will be Sony's arrogance and handling of it. Sony is the biggest supporter of HD-DVD out there right now and they don't even know it. But, I think we are past the point of saying HD-DVD, as a format, has better PQ. That had a nice run during the initial months of Sony's lackluster opening salvo (and I just watched Into the Blue and wouldn't exactly say it's incomparable to some HD-DVDs released at the same time), but Fox, Disney, and WB have done their fair share to show that there really isn't a problem with the format.

This format war is going to be won on whoever has the better marketing muscle anyway. I've always thought the biggest advantage HD-DVD has is the name. And when the dust settles, I'd be surprised if we're left with anything other than a niche (laserdisc) market.... which is fine with me.

I'll be hoping HD-DVD survives if I pull the trigger on this new XA2....

Actually, (and no one is more surprised than I am) it appears that the PS3 is an excellent Blu Ray player. Here is a link to a shoot out review by Sound and Vision that rated it tops, even over the $1500.00 Panasonic dedicated player. And it appears the comparison wasnt even close.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hd-...c-players.html


Beyond that, an AVS forum member who had access to one of the, about to be released, high end Pioneer Elite players had it home for a weekend and compared that to a PS3 and found the difference in picture minimal, at best. Clearly, the problems with Blu Ray are with the early software releases and their mastering, as has been noted many times.

I'm certainly a supporter of HD-DVD, and hope it somehow wins the format war, but the Blu Ray platform is certainly one that is capable of great quality. I look at it this way, there is no way, long term, that both formats survive, I'm happy to at least know that both are capable of great picture and sound quality so whatever we are left with isnt disappointing.


John

The ps3 has been a perfect BD player.

And alot of new BD titles are just as good PQ as HD DVD.


I own both formats and like them both equally.

and winstonb. Grain in movies is intentional.

I'll agree with two out of three of those. Then again, now that I think about it, if J6P ever sees the demo Best Buy used to run for Blu-Ray in the first weeks (Hitch with white polka dots flickering across the background), maybe they do think that. Otherwise, we're lucky if J6P ever sees the difference between either of the two HD formats and standard DVD, much less any difference between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.


I can't wait until someone starts releasing actual sales data so people will stop looking at Amazon.com as the source for determining who is winning the format war (even though my guess is that it's still HD-DVD right now).


I can tell you that BR on my Sony Pearl looked comparable to my HD-DVDs. And what title? What display? I don't see how you can generalize the whole format based on one title on an in-store display. I get that's how J6P will evaluate it, which is why I don't think either format will ever be widely accepted by him/her.


30 GB may be "enough". The two camps can keep throwing theorized layers on forever. Triple-layer would be great... it's whether the capability will translate to actual usage by the studios.

I just got a PS3 as a slightly delayed Christmas present. Since you own both, what BD titles would you recommend? THanks.


John

^Transporter 2, Pearl Harbour, Kingdom of Heaven, Enemy of the State are great starters

I got an XA1 about a month ago, and just got a PS3 this week. So far I have 4 HD DVD's (Serenity, Bourne Supremecy, Aeon Flux, and Batman Begins) All of them look spectaular with BB looking the best. I only own X3 on Blue Ray, and while the detail and colors are pretty much there, there is alot of grain and/or noise. This is typical as far as what others have posted about BD transfers.

To me this says that the issue between HD DVD and BD is NOT about space. Clearly HD DVD has been doing a sway better job on transfers and encoding. BD would almost certainly look identical using the same encoding as the same HD DVD. I am sick of hearing how BD has so much more space....it doesn't matter and neither does using a higher bitrate for mpeg2. At some point a high bitrate will not give you anything further picture was...just takes up more space. VC1 titles look alot better to me...period

To me, this war is about CE and studio support. While Sony has failed with formats in the past, this time it is a little different. The reason is they are not going it alone. Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic also make palyers...and those are very popular brands.

In addition, All but one HD DVD exclusive studio has gone neutral, while none of the BD sudios have. Sadly, I fear that BD is trying to choke HD DVD, even if it means a short term of missed profits. One good thing I hope comes out of all of this is that the competition between the two groups will force CE and studios to give us better cheaper hardwre and BETTER TRANSFERS USING NEWER AND BETTER ENCODING TECHNIQUES!

Imagine if HD DVD did not exist...WOULD BD OWNERS BE HAPPY WITH TRANSFERS LIKE TALIDEGA NIGHTS AND THE 5TH ELEMENT????

Owning both, I feel a lot better about the "war". I am set either way. THe PS3 is a good BD player. Though I think it does have some black and white crush...I know it does not pass BTB. I have read that the other standalone BD players also suffer from this too. I figure the PS3 is the most likely player to receive updates to fix this as well, since unlike a standalone unit which gets a new model at least every year, the PS3 will have to last longer than that for Sony.

SO far, given the choice, (and afer reading reviews) I will buy HD DVD over BD if they are both offered...at least until BD can deliver PQ as good as HD DVD.

As to the statement above that the 1080i outout looked better then the 1080p output on thr PS3....any other thoughts on this? I have mine set to 1080p going to my samsung hls-6188. I have also changed from Auto to YPR 444. I don't know why 1080i would look better....the PS3 should be passing 1080p from a 1080p source. with 1080i, you will go through another processing step. DO you think it might be because the above poster has a pretty good outboard scaler?

Film grain, yes. But that is not the grain people are complaining about. The grain in BD seems to be from inferior codecs. No one seems to mind the BD titles using the VC-1 codec.