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HSU STF-2 vs BIC H-100

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I was not looking this expensive subs but now since after looking at lot of reviews on this forum I decided to buy a good sub. I can get HSU STF-2 for $346 shipped vs BIC H-100 for $229 shipped, for the casual listener is the HSU worth extra money or BIC should be enough as I can see lot's of good reviews on BIC on this forum.

Thanks
--rubs
post #2 of 29
I am also in the same boat. HSU STF-2 is out of stock now. It will be available sometime late Feb according to HSU.
post #3 of 29
I've also pretty much narrowed my search down to these subs. I do quite a bit of gaming on my 360. The wife and I watch a decent bit of TV and movies. Is the extra money for the HSU worth it?
post #4 of 29
No contest. Put the extra money towards the HSU. There is no comparison between those two subs.
post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 
BIC H-100 is front firing but HSU is down firing, Is that matters too much for apartment as we live on the 4th floor and I don't want to hear too much complain from downstairs
post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubs View Post

BIC H-100 is front firing but HSU is down firing, Is that matters too much for apartment as we live on the 4th floor and I don't want to hear too much complain from downstairs

The fact that the subwoofer is front firing versus down firing will not make a difference.
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan1000 View Post

The fact that the subwoofer is front firing versus down firing will not make a difference.

But he will want to get a Subdude or something like it to isolate his sub from the floor.
post #8 of 29
I actually just noticed the new VTF-1 on the HSU website. How are the HSU's really that much better than the BIC? I must be missing something... I've done alot of searching and reading the past couple of weeks (enough to annoy the wife) and from the sound graphs, the BIC seems to do quite well. If the HSU is worth the extra $$$, is the VTF-1 a good improvement over the STF-2? I've read posts saying yes but I haven't read any information why.


A little background... my living room/dining area is 15x25 w/ 9' ceilings. We have all hardwood floors. But the floorplan is very open. Dining leads to kitchen and foyer while the living area opens to an office. Would the HSUs give me enough sound? I have a perfce spot for the sub in a corner


I don't really mean to hijak the thread but since my needs were so close to the OP, I didn't feel it neccessary to make a new thread... at least yet.

Thanks!
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
Yeh that is ok, now we can repost the questions as :
whether all the HSU models(STF-2,VTF-1) justify the extra money as compare to BIC H-100 or only high end are better?
and if "yes" then which HSU model is preferrable in range < $400..STF-2 or VTF-1 and what is the main advantage?
post #10 of 29
Quote:


whether all the HSU models(STF-2,VTF-1) justify the extra money as compare to BIC H-100 or only high end are better?

Whether they all justify the money depends on you. Most are a significant improvement in SQ.

Dr. HSU assisted with the H100's design, but it was done so within the costs / margins that BIC desired. BIC wanted a 12" driver in a $250 subwoofer, so some trade-offs were made.

HSU's cheapest sub with a 12" driver is the VTF-2 Mk3 @ $469 promotional pricing, and until recently, their cheapest sub with a 12" driver was $599. HSU has said their subs offer better electronics / crossovers, compared to the BIC, and presumably a higher quality driver as well.

New Lineup
VTF-3 HO....12" XBL2 driver...500w amp...dual 4" ports...21.5x17x25 HxWxD...9137.5 cu in...*93lbs
VTF-3 Mk3...12" driver..........350w amp...dual 4" ports...21.5x17x25 HxWxD...9137.5 cu in...*90lbs)
VTF-2 Mk3...12" driver..........250w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0x15x23 HxWxD...7590 cu in......*80lbs)
VTF-1.........10" driver..........200w amp...dual 3" ports...19.5x14x18 HxWxD...4914 cu in........44lbs)
MBM-12......12" light driver....350w amp...one 4" port.....19.0x14x18 HxWxD...4788 cu in......*47lbs)

Old Lineup for comparison's sake:
VTF-3 Mk2...12" driver..........350w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0x15x23 HxWxD...7590 cu in.......80lbs)
STF-3.........12" driver..........300w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0x15x23 HxWxD...7590 cu in.......78lbs)
VTF-2 Mk2...10" driver..........250w amp...dual 3" ports...19.5x14x18 HxWxD...4914 cu in.......57lbs)
STF-2.........10" driver..........200w amp...one 3" port.....19.5x14x18 HxWxD...4914 cu in.......44lbs)
STF-1.........8" driver............150w amp...one 3" port.....19.0x11x16 HxWxD...3344 cu in.......35lbs)

* Shipping weight.

The BIC H100 uses a 150w amp.
post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
Still for a casual listener, how big a difference between bic and hsu and what is the main difference between stf-2 and vtf-1
post #12 of 29
rubs

Ask Echomalinois in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773118


He has/had the Bic H100 and has the VTF-2 MK3. Not exactly what you're asking but he'll give you his impression in the difference between the two. As I stated before, if you're into this HT stuff (must be if you're here at AVS) you're going to want that accurate, tight, detailed, physical bass that subs like the HSU and others can deliver. It's not to say the H100 isn't good, but depending on what you want and how much you want to spend. For me, the HSU was worth every penny as it was probably the best upgrade I've made.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bittermelon View Post

rubs

Ask Echomalinois in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=773118


He has/had the Bic H100 and has the VTF-2 MK3. Not exactly what you're asking but he'll give you his impression in the difference between the two. As I stated before, if you're into this HT stuff (must be if you're here at AVS) you're going to want that accurate, tight, detailed, physical bass that subs like the HSU and others can deliver. It's not to say the H100 isn't good, but depending on what you want and how much you want to spend. For me, the HSU was worth every penny as it was probably the best upgrade I've made.

What do you think about VTF-2 MK3 with Velodyne CHT front row speakers and Onkyo 504 receiver.

If I go with VTF-2 MK3 I have to cut some corners with receiver. Is Onkyo 504 good enough for VTF-2 MK3?
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyefan View Post

No contest. Put the extra money towards the HSU. There is no comparison between those two subs.

Have you heard them side by side?
Or just assumed that there is a huge difference?
For someone on a tight budget and living in an apartment, the BIC seems to be the best compromise.
Can someone point me to a direct comparison between the two?
post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
In the post mentioned, BIC was discuss with HSU VTF-2 MK3 which is expensive for me, I was wondering more on STF-2. Also I may not be able to use all this calliberation unless I read some step by step instructions so is there any sub that requires less amount of tuning.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdadi View Post

What do you think about VTF-2 MK3 with Velodyne CHT front row speakers and Onkyo 504 receiver.

If I go with VTF-2 MK3 I have to cut some corners with receiver. Is Onkyo 504 good enough for VTF-2 MK3?

Pdadi,

I think the sub will work fine with your speakers and your receiver. It will enhance your overall audio experience by handling the low end to relieve your amp and speakers from trying to reproduce it. Gives you more headroom for the mid bass and above in your amp (when your speakers are set to small). I run the Monitor 11's as small. In my experience, the biggest difference was the upgrade in the sub and speakers vs. the receiver upgrade, so if you get a skookum sub to begin with, there's one less thing to upgrade. You'll have a sub that's capable of playing <20 Hz stuff in movies and articulate and detailed for music as well.

rubs,

Yes, I mentioned the comparison he had was with the VTF-2. Every thread here I've seen has mentioned the musicality of the HSU and the ability to handle the LFE in movies to great effect. As an owner of an HSU, I can only say what others have said. Take my opinion with a grain of salt and come up to your own conclusions. I try to be objective in my observations so others can assess their choice minus the exaggeration that usually comes when someone is enthusiastic about their purchase. My opinion is if you can swing it, go with the STF-2 (7 year warranty on the driver and 2 on the amp, help on placement of the sub directly from Dr. Hsu or the staff- says a lot about their product and their service)
If it's too much to spend, then get the H100. I don't think you'll be disappointed with it's performance. You may be thinking about upgrading in a year's time, or maybe not. It's best to stay off these forums or it will tempt you. I know that with the performance of the VTF-2 MK3, I am totally satisfied with its performance and will not be upgrading any time soon.

All that extra calibration stuff isn't totally necessary. I'm just OCD . All you have to do is level match it with your receiver preferably with a sound level meter from Rat Shack and you can use the receiver's test tones to do this. All receivers have a test tone that it sends to each speaker and you adjust the levels of each to the same level. It isn't terribly complicated to do it.
You're on the right track, Bic H100 or above is where you'll get the most enjoyment.
post #17 of 29
Bittermelon,

Thanks for all your responses. I appreciate it. I am going with STF-2($373 shipped). Well VTF2-MK3($560 shipped) is great buts it bit pricey with tax included since I am in California. I hope STF-2 will serve my needs Mine is 80% HT vs 20% music. STF-2 will be used with

Velodyne CHT Front row speakers
Onkyo 504 receiver.

Thanks for all your suggestions guys.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by unleashed View Post

For someone on a tight budget and living in an apartment, the BIC seems to be the best compromise. Can someone point me to a direct comparison between the two?

Everything you read here is an opinion. There's no way to know whether your opinion would be the same. There are people for whom money is no object and people who will spend just about any amount to get what they perceive is an incremental improvement over a lower cost model.

Get the BIC if that's what you can afford. I could afford any sub I wanted but I got the BIC (for a 15x20 foot room) because I wasn't willing to spend $500 or more. I have watched King Kong, Terminator 2, X-Men 3 and they all sounded great. You would never convince me that a $500 sub would be twice as good as my $229 BIC.

Good luck.
post #19 of 29
I had the same dilemma a while back and ended up buying the STF-2. It's a great deal, and if I ever want to upgrade I'm sure I could get my money out of the Hsu on resale. Incidentally, a buddy of mine got the Bic V1020 (I know, not the H-100) and he seems happy with it. He says it's not as good sound quality as the Hsu, but none the less he's happy with it at half the price. I haven't heard it yet, so no comment from me.

Now, I still am very glad I made the choice I did. Is the STF-2 worth $350? I think hell yeah! Is the BIC worth $225, hell yeah (at least based upon popular opinion)! Is it worth $125 to upgrade? In my opinion, that's an obvious yes, because I won't have any regrets (except not upgrading to the VTF-2 Mk3).

I feel very confident that until I move into a bigger space, my Hsu will more than meet my needs and give me the full HT and music experience I'm paying for. I'd be left wondering if I had gotten the BIC. I may not be able to notice all the quality improvements right now, but I'm sure I'll grow to appreciate the subtleties over time.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by unleashed View Post

Have you heard them side by side?
Or just assumed that there is a huge difference?
For someone on a tight budget and living in an apartment, the BIC seems to be the best compromise.
Can someone point me to a direct comparison between the two?

Brian, a friend of mine had the H100 for awhile and ordered a few HSU products (both in house at the same time). He tore both apart, and we've got pics of the internals of each. He loved the H100 until he got his hands on his HSU's. The H100 is a great entry level 12" sub.

The HSU's are more of a high end type sub, and IMO (keep in mind, all of us only have opinions) is a much better sub for music as well as HT. The H100 is great for HT in a moderate sized room.

I personally had a Cadence Xsub which is very similar to the H100. I was thrilled with the build quality, amp power, and their customer service. But I have a 4000 sq. ft. room and needed something larger.

I demo'd subs in numerous audio shops, and even several in Canada looking for the perfect upgrade. I had the opportunity to spend 3 hours at the SVS shop in Girard, Ohio demoing everything they had. It took a few years, but I ended up with a Plus/2 in Oak.

post #21 of 29
Buckeyfan,

What do u think about PB10-NSD in 2500 cu ft room? How does this fits well with Velodyne CHT front row speakers. Mine is mostly HT purpose.

Been looking at HSU STF-2 but its out of stock till the end of Feb.

Heard PB10 is excellent for HT. Please let me know about Velodyne CHT front row speakers with PB10.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdadi View Post

Buckeyfan,

What do u think about PB10-NSD in 2500 cu ft room? How does this fits well with Velodyne CHT front row speakers. Mine is mostly HT purpose.

Been looking at HSU STF-2 but its out of stock till the end of Feb.

Heard PB10 is excellent for HT. Please let me know about Velodyne CHT front row speakers with PB10.

The PB10 should be fine in that size room, and a very good match for the smaller CHT setup. Is the PB12 NSD out of your budget? It's probably the most impressive sub for the money in their lineup if you have the room. The STF-3 would also be an easy upgrade pick if money and size fit, especially at their current sale. I'd probably go STF-3 over PB10, but PB12 over all others in this price range.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyefan View Post

Brian, a friend of mine had the H100 for awhile and ordered a few HSU products (both in house at the same time). He tore both apart, and we've got pics of the internals of each.

Would you please share the rest of pictures?
I'd love to see the internals of both.
post #24 of 29
Buckeyefan,

Thanks for your suggestions. Initially I started with Bic H-100 and after doing some research started looking at HSU STF-2 or VTF-1 and SVS PB-10 subwoofers.

Due to WAF loundness levels will be low and I can only crankup volume when nobody is at home . I am looking at realastic sound reproduction from movies at low loudness levels. Will it be too loud with PB10? Do you think Bic H-100 will be enough for me?

How many movies are out there percentage wise that goes below 25 Hz. If there are far and few I may not worry about deep extensions. Please let me know what do you think?
THis is the first time I am venturing into this one. I would to like to add this to my HDTV/DVD viewing experience since TV speakers sucks.
post #25 of 29
Keep in mind just because a sub specs down to 25Hz, it doesn't mean it does it efficiently. Usually that 25Hz is dipping quickly on a graph. My Cadence 12" sub went down to 25Hz and was very powerful, but it was strongest in the 40-60Hz areas, similar to most entry level 12" subs. When you step up to an SVS or HSU, they focus more on tuning their subs for HT and you'll notice a cleaner, lower bass with tv and movies. You don't need to play the sub at elevated levels to tell the difference. I've got a PB12 Plus/2 and it sounds great at low levels. It reproduces the lower frequencies much easier without blending in higher bass frequencies.

I was asked not to post the internals of the HSU since it's under warranty. It's very well braced and damped. It looks a lot likethe guts of this STF-1:

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...archSTF1p1.php
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubs View Post

BIC H-100 for $229 shipped

--rubs

Can someone tell me where you can find a BIC H-100 for $229 shipped. My budget works for this but cannot find it for less than $280.

Thanks
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by causeofhim View Post

Can someone tell me where you can find a BIC H-100 for $229 shipped. My budget works for this but cannot find it for less than $280.

Thanks

Ebay
post #28 of 29
I have been going back and fourth on the idea of upgrading to HSU. I currently have an 8" mirage nanosat sub (came with the system). I recently upgraded to Omnisats.

I have a small room. Its about 15 X 12. I'm wondering on thoughts of the Hsu STF-1. Is it worth upgrading to the HSU and keeping the 8" sub or should I make the jump to the 10"? If so it may have to wait a while due to budget constraints.
post #29 of 29
Wait for the 10", the upgrade in performance, range, and ability to fill the room is worth the investment. the STF-2 will fill your room, while the STF-1 will be underpowered IMO.
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