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This is what HT is all about: The Deer Hunter is perfection!

post #1 of 51
1/3/07 at 7:02pm
Thread Starter 
I have noticed alot of folks wondering about Deer Hunter, this is probably short of Casablanca, the biggest classic released so far IMHO

I anxiously awaited my copy of the best De Niro flick 2nd to Casino IMHO(which we are also lucky enough to have)

Deer Hunter is without a doubt reference in every way, film grain is 100% intact, no filtering or NR here, Deer Hunter has always been a a noisy movie, be it intentional or a mistake(I wasn't even alive when this was released), that doesn't matter, it is like that here and that is what does matter

Colors are vibrant and realistic, check out the first scene in Vietnam, there is not a hint of EE in the scenes I checked out, the image oozes natural sharpness and detail from the true anamorphic scope filming process, the vegetation in Nam is unreal

Black levels are great, they are a tad mushy which is mostly the norm for films from this time, no problem there, the 2.35:1 scope presentation is correct and I just sit with a big smile on my face while viewing this on my 2.40:1 rig

the new Deer Hunter remaster has a tad of warmth added to it (greyscale), I noticed this on the 2-disc DVD set that I bought a little ways back, this is from that same master, other places I have seen DH looked cooler/bluer, I have no idea if this is what is preferred by the filmmakers or not, but it is not a issue and is very minor and I actually like it

the audio on Deer Hunter is what some would stupidly call "dated", the sound effects are mono sounding, a tad thin and bass is lacking , so obviously not up to modern flicks, but that is still what we want for this, no new sound effects for this home boy, I hate that
the 5.1 mix is nice and relays the audio in the best form we can get and it sounds quite good, dialogue is great

The Deer Hunter is a release from Universal that is darn near perfect, a person could not ask for something better than this for such a classic film, the image is just downright amazing

I have been a little down on Universal for a few weeks, Casino looked fabulous but wasn't quite what I thought it would be, Waterworld had EE pretty bad, but this release fully restores my expectations from them

-Gary
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post #2 of 51
1/3/07 at 7:46pm
Might have to pick this one up should be a good upgrade over my current LD
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post #3 of 51
1/3/07 at 8:01pm
Deer Hunter is a good flick, I'll have to get that ASAP.

Gary, check out The Hulk. Seriously, a little bit of black bars should be something you should tolerate for this amazing PQ beast of a movie. I even liked it better than I remembered from the theaters. The plot and dialogue were weak, but not as terrible as my memory had led me to believe...

The PQ is what's on (as well as the AQ). 3d in both audio and video. Razor sharp for both too.
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post #4 of 51
1/3/07 at 10:05pm
Thread Starter 
Force I will be getting Hulk, I have bought so much lately I am broke, I am watching Rising Sun right now, sometimes one must tolerate the curtains drawn

-Gary
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post #5 of 51
1/3/07 at 11:48pm
It could have been better....somewhat disappointed with this release.... too much grain and spots in the film - (Flawed?)
The interior shots were superb ... the outside shots were soft and grainy @ the part when they were hunting the deer was sub par....
One of my favorite films and sure looks alot better than the SD version..... which btw was terrible IMO.....
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post #6 of 51
1/4/07 at 12:36am
Thread Starter 
dude thats the way this looks, so one either likes it or not, grain is part of film, as is soft focus, the 2 disc release was pretty darn good but obviously can't touch this, hopefully you didn't have the pleasure of owning the first DH release, oh it was soooo bad

-Gary
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post #7 of 51
1/4/07 at 4:10am
You have to laugh when people say the movie has grain. Since when did film not have grain?
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post #8 of 51
1/4/07 at 4:17am
I disagree with mostly everything that this guy has ever posted, but I also think film grain should be kept intact.

It is part of the character and detail of the image. Piss off and watch DiscoveryHD if you don't like it.
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post #9 of 51
1/4/07 at 5:28am
Next, we need Apocalypse Now.
Both are classics.

ss9001
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post #10 of 51
1/4/07 at 7:41am
Ugh, I really hate when people complain about grain when that's how the movie is supposed to look.
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post #11 of 51
1/4/07 at 7:58am
Yes ,very interesting the film image is made of silver hailde crystals ( grain). What I find most interesting is this simply was a minor topic until HDDVD was released. Now so many seem to think that film images should have no grain structure.

I
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post #12 of 51
1/4/07 at 7:59am
I noticed a lot of EE in the Deer Hunter, but it looked great otherwise....maybe it's my setup or something but other titles like Miami Vice looked perfect, didn't notice one speck of EE in that one....
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post #13 of 51
1/4/07 at 8:59am
This review is exactly what I was longing to hear.

Thanks gary.
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post #14 of 51
1/4/07 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yes ,very interesting the film image is made of silver hailde crystals ( grain). What I find most interesting is this simply was a minor topic until HDDVD was released. Now so many seem to think that film images should have no grain structure.

Art,

How does the silver hailde crystals affect the filming process? I know certain film stock has different intrinsic properties and that grain is a byproduct of mainly light capture on the celluloid during filiming, thus lower light sequences get grainy.

Do modern films use different film stocks that are inherently less noticable in terms of grain? I noticed that HD DVDs aren't bereft of grain its just that the grain is more subtle. Have you or anyone else noticed this?
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post #15 of 51
1/4/07 at 10:52am
Dude no offense Gary, but why is everything you review pretty much reference? There are bad HD and BD transfers out there (Silent Hill which I just watched on BD comes to mind). Nothing and I mean nothing has come close to Kong, Corpse Bride, or Hulk on either format (and I own all the supposed top titles on both formats) but The Deer Hunter is perfection insofar as it captures the feel of the film as originally photographed. It is not something that I would use to show off my system whereas The Searchers or Casablanca both are. This is a good transfer, but not reference--not by a mile.
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post #16 of 51
1/4/07 at 5:26pm
Gary, Gary, Gary........I enjoy your posts, and find many of them informative. But is this really what HT is all about? How about explaining to your wife why PotC DMC knocked her dishes off the shelf. What about replacing light bulbs because a t-rex attack just busted them. What about telling your three year old to sit back from the projector screen because she would see pixel structure. Or, maybe telling your wife you are leaving because you just found a women that said she would buy you anything you need for your home theater........Just kidding, of course. Post away, good man....
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post #17 of 51
1/4/07 at 5:47pm
This forum is weird as **** and full of kooks. The whole "tier" thing makes me shake my head and laugh. Incredibly dumb.

BTW, The Deer Hunter does indeed have a unique visual style. Vilmos Zsigmond was the DP and most of his films, while not looking exactly the same, have similar characteristics. Lots of earth tones and robust grain structure. I like his style a lot.
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post #18 of 51
1/4/07 at 6:10pm
Deer Hunter has had a very nice HD DVD release. Very vivid and film-like with several scenes that blew me away.

The above is also true for Casino HD DVD.
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post #19 of 51
1/5/07 at 1:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post

This forum is weird as **** and full of kooks. The whole "tier" thing makes me shake my head and laugh. Incredibly dumb.

BTW, The Deer Hunter does indeed have a unique visual style. Vilmos Zsigmond was the DP and most of his films, while not looking exactly the same, have similar characteristics. Lots of earth tones and robust grain structure. I like his style a lot.



thanks for the info, most people don't realize how much the DP means to the look of a film, it is very grainy and earthy and this HD-DVD is exactly what this was supposed to look like, sometimes I have to pinch myself that we have titles like this with such amazing PQ

long live Film and Anamorphic Scope

-Gary
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post #20 of 51
1/5/07 at 9:05am
I can see some edge enhancement halos where the mountains meet the sky...
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post #21 of 51
1/5/07 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by azmodien View Post

Piss off and watch DiscoveryHD if you don't like it.

ROFL, Havnt seen DH yet but I like my DiscoveryHD
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post #22 of 51
1/5/07 at 10:27am
I am seriously curious...why would you want grain in your movies? I couldn't care less if that's the "intent."

Whatever.

It looks like garbage and it's distracting, especially in both high-def formats. I can't think of any movie in any genre that I'd prefer had the grain as opposed to without it.

It sounds like people are making excuses and settling. I can watch crappy, grainy pictures on standard definition, it's not what I'm paying $20-$30 for.
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post #23 of 51
1/5/07 at 10:35am
I see lots of talk about film grain on these forums. I am a still photographer, mostly wilflife. When I enlarge images I often need to add grain digitally and avoid a plastic look to the image. A lot of film stock, particularly that used for shooting in lower light, is much more sensitive, and often shows grain. Most of the time, if not all, this is known beforehand by the filmakers and usually chosen for that reason. It can add contrast, depth so on. An attempt to remove the grain digitally to please those who think the grain is a result of either poor filmaking or bad transfers, would probably destroy the image and make it look like Aon Flux. Film and cameras have come a long way over the last 20 years or so and styles change. I guess we need to accept that the hd format is going to show detail whether we like it or not, and deal with or don't watch it.
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post #24 of 51
1/5/07 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaylisJayP View Post

I am seriously curious...why would you want grain in your movies? I couldn't care less if that's the "intent."

Whatever.

It looks like garbage and it's distracting, especially in both high-def formats. I can't think of any movie in any genre that I'd prefer had the grain as opposed to without it.

It sounds like people are making excuses and settling. I can watch crappy, grainy pictures on standard definition, it's not what I'm paying $20-$30 for.

First. It doesn't seem like you're curious when you condemn grain as "garbage and it's distracting." Grain is inherent to celluloid. If you don't want grain, stick with video (oh wait, then you have NOISE which is what I think you think grain is). Grain is never going away unless you take it away, often at the loss of fine details and high frequency noise. Luckily HD DVD studios DON'T take grain away and DON'T use FILTERS. BD studios are also great at preserving film grain and not using filters. HD DVD movies just have been less grainy thus far because the films were that way.

BTW, SD can't reveal grain (well, very little) so anything you're seeing that looks like grain is definitely noise. Read up on this stuff and then you can call yourself curious.

If you want clear HD, you want grain. Similarly, if you want the best HT experience, you want grain because that's inherent to film. If you want the best PQ experience watch DiscoveryHD, you want video not film.
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post #25 of 51
1/5/07 at 1:02pm
ForceFlow, can you expand on your explanation of grain?

You say:

Quote:


Grain is never going away unless you take it away... Luckily HD DVD studios DON'T take grain away and DON'T use FILTERS...

.

I have not seen grain in the vast majority of HD-DVDs movie footage I have seen. Something doesn't add up.

Thanks,
John
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post #26 of 51
1/5/07 at 3:33pm
I'd rather have a grainy, natural film image any day to some soulless, filtered scrubbed clean digital looking video like film image. We had too much of that with DVD. Walk up to a painting, you will see brushstrokes. Should you erase those? Wouldn't really look the same anymore. In effect that's what filmgrain is, the film's brushstrokes.

but what do I know...?

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post #27 of 51
1/5/07 at 3:58pm
Nice review Gary! Sounds like another reference title from Universal. Nice job to all those who worked onteh transfer.
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post #28 of 51
1/5/07 at 4:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post

This forum is weird as **** and full of kooks. The whole "tier" thing makes me shake my head and laugh. Incredibly dumb.

I agree, I think it is silly. Just let me know what looks bad. I think most will buy good and great PQ titles if the story is a good one. I just dont want to buy any poor PQ movies. Im also sick of the use of the word "reference" and the usual over exuberance when a strong title comes out. It is immediately dubbed "reference" in both forums. Then 3 people agree but 4 find flaws the next day.
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post #29 of 51
1/5/07 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I'd rather have a grainy, natural film image any day to some soulless, filtered scrubbed clean digital looking video like film image. We had too much of that with DVD. Walk up to a painting, you will see brushstrokes. Should you erase those? Wouldn't really look the same anymore. In effect that's what filmgrain is, the film's brushstrokes.

but what do I know...?


Heh, that Monet sure was a crappy painter. Give me one of those crystal-clear unicorn piantings like the one I saw at the mall yesterday. It even had blinking lights. It was reference quality, teir 1!!!!!
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post #30 of 51
1/5/07 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jflegert View Post

ForceFlow, can you expand on your explanation of grain?I have not seen grain in the vast majority of HD-DVDs movie footage I have seen. Something doesn't add up.

John,

Grain is present on many of the titles, but its not thick defined grain like we can see on prominent BD titles. On Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, for instance, there is plenty of grain but it is light and quick moving. What size display do you use? Sometimes if your display isn't 50"+ or you're not paying attention to grain, you can miss it.

I think VC-1's deblocking filter smears some of the grain. That is just my opinion, I'm not expert on VC-1 or grain itself. I also think HD DVD studios have been picking cleaner titles to release, handpicking titles that will look smooth and great in HD. BD studios seem to be picking C and B titles. They are focusing on putting out the A titles when there is a large consumer base already present. Different approaches and as BD studios churn them out, you'll see more and more with varying grain contents.

V for Vendetta shows it grain in darker scenes, such as when the TV station is "assualted" as Evey hides under boxes while the two detectives are looking, it pops up and quickly disappears when the ample lightening is brought back. Batman Begins shows grain, but it is not obtrusive.

Someone else that has a bigger display (or knows more like William) can probably explain and pinpoint more HD DVD titles. If you have a specific question about a title, I've seen like 70 HD DVDs I could probably point out where or why grain is/isn't there...
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