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My verdict on why PJs are FAR SUPERIOR to any Flat TV

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I am totally shocked, at the low quality images offered by all the LCD and PLASMA TV sets.........

I have seen all the high end models, and they still suffer from motion lag, smearness, pattern noise, and a general sea sickeness look about the image......

None of them come close to a CRT TV, and the fact that people have disposed of their Sony / Panasonic CRTs to get a low quality TV , is shocking......

lets face facts, the main reason people buy them, is because they are flat, and are 'cool' and the latest tech........

yes, they are the latest, but also far poorer tech than a CRT.

Here is how I would analogise them;

I think of my CRT TV, as a car, with perfectly round wheels............smooth and perfect ride......

the LCD / Plasmas, are like supersports cars, BUT with wheels that are not perfectly round......they are faster, bigger, have more features, but you are always driving a car with wheels that are not perfectly round.

Funny I thought, but true !!

I have a sony HS50 and was thinking about getting a Plasma to replace it........

Panasonic Viera are good value, at £ 900 ( UK GBP ) for a 42"

but they still suffer pattern noise, and phosphor lag, especially noticeable on dark scenes, where the phosphor takes longer to refresh.................

LCD tvs are ALL poor, even latest Sony Bravia, suffers motion lag / blur, and blacks which look heavy, unnatural, and lack of detail in grey scales...........I would never consider a LCD tv..................

In the end, I have decided to upgrade to a SOny HS60, same as what I have, but even better blacks...........that was the only think the HS50 still was weak ( compared to a CRT display )

I still use a CRT 25" 4:3 display for tv viewing, and NONE of the flat screens are even close to this quality...................

I really find it astonishing, that millions of people have accepted these far inferior flat tvs, purely on cosmetic reasons.............OK, some people want a really large image, so CRTs are out, but for 99% of UK homes, where room sizes are small compared to US, they would not need anything bigger than a 32" crt...........

the manufacturers must love all this, they can keep making better and better flat screens, maybe in 10 years from now, we will have Plasmas as good as a CRT display.

amazing isnt it..................
post #2 of 24
what is PJ?
but I do agree, my Sony 34XS955 doesn't suffer from any of the lcd/plazma issues. My CRT still looks great.
post #3 of 24
and how does all the HD programming look on your 4:3 tv?
post #4 of 24
and how does your computer look on your 4:3 tv?
post #5 of 24
I remember when computer nerds would say this crap about LCDs when they first came out as computer monitors.

They were wrong.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Welsh View Post

I remember when computer nerds would say this crap about LCDs when they first came out as computer monitors.

They were wrong.

Actually, they were right very right. >50MS response time on games that had >50FPS created an absolutely horrible image experience. However, that was more than five years ago and if they are still holding on to that belief over the past two years, they are incorrect.
post #7 of 24
I vote for this being moved to a CRT forum.
Discussion is OK, however this seems to be an attack on the very forum subject its posted on.

I would ALWAYS like to 'see' comparisons of different technologies, as well as old vs. new.
(I'm one of the few that believe LP vs. CD comparison is valid, as well as CD vs. DVD-A/SA-CD)

For me, LCD flat panels are all about 1080p input & resolution with 1:1 pixel mapping.
Can any CRT under $10,000US do that?
post #8 of 24
OP has clearly never been in the same room as a properly calibrated name brand plasma.

You're welcome to bring your 25" CRT over to my house and we can do a side-by-side. (Next week, after my ISF'er comes out.)
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionary View Post

OP has clearly never been in the same room as a properly calibrated name brand plasma.

You're welcome to bring your 25" CRT over to my house and we can do a side-by-side. (Next week, after my ISF'er comes out.)

Or even an out of the box Pioneer 5th thru 7th generation plasma- any size.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios View Post

I am totally shocked, at the low quality images offered by all the LCD and PLASMA TV sets.........

I have seen all the high end models, and they still suffer from motion lag, smearness, pattern noise, and a general sea sickeness look about the image......

None of them come close to a CRT TV, and the fact that people have disposed of their Sony / Panasonic CRTs to get a low quality TV , is shocking......

lets face facts, the main reason people buy them, is because they are flat, and are 'cool' and the latest tech........

yes, they are the latest, but also far poorer tech than a CRT.

Here is how I would analogise them;

I think of my CRT TV, as a car, with perfectly round wheels............smooth and perfect ride......

the LCD / Plasmas, are like supersports cars, BUT with wheels that are not perfectly round......they are faster, bigger, have more features, but you are always driving a car with wheels that are not perfectly round.

Funny I thought, but true !!

I have a sony HS50 and was thinking about getting a Plasma to replace it........

Panasonic Viera are good value, at £ 900 ( UK GBP ) for a 42"

but they still suffer pattern noise, and phosphor lag, especially noticeable on dark scenes, where the phosphor takes longer to refresh.................

LCD tvs are ALL poor, even latest Sony Bravia, suffers motion lag / blur, and blacks which look heavy, unnatural, and lack of detail in grey scales...........I would never consider a LCD tv..................

In the end, I have decided to upgrade to a SOny HS60, same as what I have, but even better blacks...........that was the only think the HS50 still was weak ( compared to a CRT display )

I still use a CRT 25" 4:3 display for tv viewing, and NONE of the flat screens are even close to this quality...................

I really find it astonishing, that millions of people have accepted these far inferior flat tvs, purely on cosmetic reasons.............OK, some people want a really large image, so CRTs are out, but for 99% of UK homes, where room sizes are small compared to US, they would not need anything bigger than a 32" crt...........

the manufacturers must love all this, they can keep making better and better flat screens, maybe in 10 years from now, we will have Plasmas as good as a CRT display.

amazing isnt it..................

Do take into account that most people in this world aren't complete videophiles, and could careless about black level yada yada yada. Flat panels make the room alot better, and most home theaters aren't built for 34 inch maximum tech.

Now that we have got that away, then yes the BEST CRTs look the best in completely dark rooms in terms of black level and color accuracy. Throw a light in the room and then most of those advantages go away.

Even when i was watching some Sony HD CRTs and most recently a Toshiba CRT at friend's house I couldn't help thinking how untheaterical and boring it was. It was nice to see analog blacks again, but the picture while as accurate as can be wasn't as sharp nor as 3-D engrossing as my Pio 5070 at home.

You're right about the dependable car analogy... it's just that. Efficent but boring as hell.

Trying to make that Toshiba any sharper produced nasty sharpness enhancement.
As good as a reference monitors the best CRTs are... I still don't think they're as great as the best plasmas in terms of TV home enjoyment. Size is a big part of it. Form factor is another.
post #11 of 24
I have a friend at work who knows things other people don't know, like the "fact" that airplane contrails are really poison, and 9/11 was an inside job by Americans. It makes his life exciting and he feels he is more in control of his own life, and he's smarter than other people.

Yikes.

As for PJ he means projectors. I would never go back to CRT's but I must say projectors rock.
They have their own issues of course, but now that I bought a projector (lower end even)
I will no longer watch movies on my current generation Panny plasma (6U). The plasma is for tv and HDTV, while the projector is for movies and games. My whole family agrees that movie night is downstairs in our new "theatre".
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd or plasma? View Post

I have a friend at work who knows things other people don't know, like the "fact" that airplane contrails are really poison, and 9/11 was an inside job by Americans. It makes his life exciting and he feels he is more in control of his own life, and he's smarter than other people.

Yikes.

As for PJ he means projectors. I would never go back to CRT's but I must say projectors rock.
They have their own issues of course, but now that I bought a projector (lower end even)
I will no longer watch movies on my current generation Panny plasma (6U). The plasma is for tv and HDTV, while the projector is for movies and games. My whole family agrees that movie night is downstairs in our new "theatre".

Very true. Projectors have a certain kick to them and they simulate theater the best. Gaming on a projector must EFFING ROCK! What kind of projector is that by the way?

The best Plasmas have absolutely no PQ problems in a dim setting (not completely dark), especially as a secondary TV.
post #13 of 24
This forum has addressed the now-cliched "flat panels are for the shallow, non-enthusiasts" antagonisms many times over. AG, you're certainly entitled to your dismissive assessment, but suffice it to say, there are a significant number of perfectionistic, true video enthusiast-types who would very much disagree with you, and let's just leave it at that.

This is not to say that projectors don't have their own wonderful merits, but believe it or not, some actually prefer the image quality, yes, I said image quality, of a good flat tech panel under some, or even many, viewing circumstances.
post #14 of 24
Johnny it's a Optoma DV10. I really hesitate discussing it much in this forum so you should PM me if you'd like to discuss it at all.
There are so many advantages for a plasma over a crt that it is obvious ag just wants to stir it up here. He may be technically correct in some respects, but that's about it as far as that silly rant.
post #15 of 24
Another troll thread.

"And he'll have FUN, FUN, FUN, 'til his mommy takes the keyboard awaaaaay" **

** - with apologies to The Beach Boys.
post #16 of 24
Some truth there, but size/form factor ultimately win out. I have a couple of HD CRT directview sets, I love them, but we're going plasma for the living room shortly. The blacks aren't as good but I do have to say that there's something engrossing about the image on a good plasma panel. Some of it might be size and perfect geometry/focus but the eye is drawn to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

For me, LCD flat panels are all about 1080p input & resolution with 1:1 pixel mapping.
Can any CRT under $10,000US do that?

My Sony FW900 can. Of course it's pretty small. Resolution isn't the end-all though, not really.
post #17 of 24
This troll has posted the same thread on many of the other forums and then never comes back to respond. I also hope his mother takes the keyboard away and sends him to bed without supper!
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd or plasma? View Post

Johnny it's a Optoma DV10. I really hesitate discussing it much in this forum so you should PM me if you'd like to discuss it at all.
There are so many advantages for a plasma over a crt that it is obvious ag just wants to stir it up here. He may be technically correct in some respects, but that's about it as far as that silly rant.

Not much to discuss sadly. I have no room for a giant Projector screen. But yes, you're great to be wary of the forum.

You lucky dog!
post #19 of 24
I'll probably get a good FP instead of a very large plasma next go round. My CRTs are relics. The only reason I keep them is; 1. I dont watch TV, just movies. and 2. The amount of industrial waste and pollutants in a CRT is disgusting and I dont want to throw the stuff out in the trash. The thought of these things being dumped into the sea and our food chain is frightful- truely. CRTs are a waste of resources and environmentally unfriendly moreso than plasmas and LCDs and the gap is increasing all of the time.
post #20 of 24
Quote:


You're welcome to bring your 25" CRT over to my house and we can do a side-by-side.

Now there is a fair compairison.............
post #21 of 24
Hehe.....what % of CRT's out there really can compete with a Plasma....not many and the ones that do are priced very close.
Most CRT's in the home are no match for the precision of todays flat panels.
Projectors??? Please......it's the HT room that makes the PJ, not the other way around.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Now there is a fair compairison.............

Might not be fair, but that comparison is kinda the point of the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ag studios View Post

yes, they are the latest, but also far poorer tech than a CRT...
I still use a CRT 25" 4:3 display for tv viewing, and NONE of the flat screens are even close to this quality...................
post #23 of 24
It's called a paragraph. And what exactly do 10 periods in a row signify? Anyway, wake me up when they offer 50" CRT's with perfect geometry, perfect focus, perfectly even illumination edge to edge, fully resolved 1920x1080, 72hz refresh, and zero overscan. Oh, and a 350 lb. display isn't acceptable. A CRT has never, and barring some miracle, will never achieve any of the above. Yes, little CRT's still look great, but there's a reason the world is moving on, and it's not just because flat panels are "sexy".
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by housecor View Post

It's called a paragraph. And what exactly do 10 periods in a row signify? Anyway, wake me up when they offer 50" CRT's with perfect geometry, perfect focus, perfectly even illumination edge to edge, fully resolved 1920x1080, 72hz refresh, and zero overscan. Oh, and a 350 lb. display isn't acceptable. A CRT has never, and barring some miracle, will never achieve any of the above. Yes, little CRT's still look great, but there's a reason the world is moving on, and it's not just because flat panels are "sexy".

Amen.
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