Oppo DV-970HD colorspace output - final answer?

Alright Jeff, maybe we can get a little info here if we get this thread going. As I'm using HDMI feeding 480i into a Pioneer plasma, I've got my own questions.

One thing i would like to know, is why you're using 480p? wouldn't letting the TV do the interlacing be the better option?

I don't have the player, otherwise I could test it, but a simple suggestion is to look at colorbars through the player and see how things are being handled. This hinges on what the display is doing, which is an unknown. Avia and DVE colorbars are 601, so they should be rendered correctly without push or depression problems on any of the colors if color decoding is correct. Look at the patterns with the source set to various settings, and check to make sure things are still ending up correct. If things are not correct it may not be localizable to the source since the display can be at fault, but it may be helpful.

Also, I don't recollect exactly, but I think some of the resolution plates on DVE (like the Snell ones perhaps?) have colorbars in both 601 and 709 in them which might be helpful too. I may be remembering that from a pattern on GetGray or one of ron's patterns though. I have test patterns coming out of my ears, it's hard to keep em all straight!

I have DVE, Avia, and GetGray and could swear I've seen the 709 bars like Chris said. I'm thinking GetGray. Last pattern? It's in "combo" Snell & Wilcox type pattern, but not Snell and Wilcox - I think.

larry

Get Gray has this belle-nuit pattern which has 601 and 709.

http://www.belle-nuit.com/testchart.html

I'm eagerly awaiting what you guys find out before buying the 970.

That was exactly the pattern I was thinking of.

i love oppo god bless them, but couldn't they have put a bit more into their reply to my email? i know this isn't the most technically oriented email ever, but i thought i might get more of a response:

from me:

Hello, I'm trying to figure out which color space is correct to use in my application. I'm outputting 480i over HDMI to a Pioneer plasma. What is the proper color space selection that I should use? Also, could you tell me why there are color space selections? Additionally, are the colorspace selections dependent on output resolution? Finally, are the selectable over either component or HDMi? thank you Chris

from oppo:

Hello,

I recommend using the YCC colorspace setting if the display happens to
be HDMI, RGB if it happens to be DVI.

...sure they answered my first question, but i had others

looks like someone is either spying on this forum, or got ahold of the email with little response. at any rate, i got another reply to my question from oppo:

While the majority of TVs will be able to automatically detect and
process the correct colorspace, some don't In this case, the user has
to manually set the TV to the output of the player. However, a few
displays do not autodetect output correctly, and do not allow the user
to manually set the input. In this case, it is up to the player to
output the correct setting. This is why a colorspace setting is on the
player.

At 480i/p - BT601 is used, at the upscaled resolutions, BT709 is used.
This is only relevant for YCC.

Component/HDMI will have the same settings - component is simply the
HDMI output run through a DAC.

maybe this will help you out a bit Jeff


ok i'm thoroughly confused now. YCC is component correct?

if 480i/p 601 is used and 720/1080 709 is used, and i'm outputting 480i over HDMI, then it looks like i need to change my setting from 4:4:4 to RGB (601) right?

my Pioneer 4360 has no selection that i'm aware of to determine what colorspace is being used or to be able to change it.

That is good news, and the oppo is (IMO) handling this correctly, based on the statement. It does indeed sound like it twists to 709 for outputting HD through component, which is good as most displays will use 709 on any HD signal they see. This should maintain the correct colors if that's what the display is doing when it sees component, which is what most do.

Nice work guys. I'm going to go get my order in for one of these now.

glad i could help you out. so essentially, no matter what selection i make on the Oppo, it's going to output the correct colorspace to the display (as long as i'm using 480i?) i just want to make sure that what i'm sending to the display is what's encoded on the disc. i.e. as close to the orginal as possible.

Thanks guys.

oh, and unfortunately, i don't have Get Grey. no dvd burner just DVE

That's not what you want to be doing. If it's upscaling, you want to let it twist into 709, rather than the 601 that's on the disc because the display is going to decode it as 709, and if it's left as 601 you'll get the wrong colors.

i'm not upscaling. i'm using 480i. i prefer to let the tv do the scaling/deinterlacing. it looks more natural to me. all the upscaling resolutions seemed too over processed. the only thing i liked better was the colors (probably a function of the 709 colorspace) but once i calibrated 480i, i was very pleased. i just want to make sure that i'm using the correct output colorspace (YCC 4:4:4) instead of RGB

Yes, though I would sort of expect the oppo's processing to be better than an average display...

i was under the impression that Pioneer has done exceptionally well in the scaling/deinterlaing department. i have a 6th gen, but even then they were supposed to be better than your average westinghouse.

Greeno,

so you're saying that resolution is the determining factor as far as what colorspace the display uses? i can grasp that fact, but does my output colorspace change when i select YCC 4:4:4 or RBG?

sorry to be a rock head. for some reason it's hard to wrap your mind around different variables with no definitive answers

Chris

The color standard shouldn't change when you change color spaces. YCbCr and RGB are two different ways for describing the same color whether it be 601 based or 709.

larry

although there's no colorspace (601/709) involved with RGB. If you're outputting RGB it's a;ready been decoded/de-matrixed so it's just RGB now. RGB is RGB. YCbCr is just RGB but run through a matrix. Once you get back to RGB you just have RGB and there is no matrix issue anymore, unless you decide to take it back into that kind of color-opponent space. RGB is just RGB.

Well, RGB doesn't really have a colorspace perse, it's just RGB. You're selecting between the signal types here, and not the colorspace (601/709). You should leave the colorspace part alone, based on what I've read here. But you certainly could choose which signal type to output if you desire. IF you're outputting RGB then the Oppo is doing the decoding and your display is just going to see RGB and isn't going to do anything with 601/709 at all because it's already back to RGB and decoded.