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PS3 Shortage OVER! - Page 5

post #121 of 231

format neutral here

but good news from Sony.

Originally Posted by Sony SEC filing View Post

LAS VEGAS, January 8, 2007 - At the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2007 in Las
Vegas, Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) today announced that more than
one million units of its recently launched PLAYSTATION(R)3 (PS3(TM)) computer
entertainment system have shipped in North America to retailers. The company
successfully achieved this milestone by the end of the 2006 calendar year, just
six weeks after the product was introduced on November 17, 2006

this would explain all the PS3 I have been seeing at Target, Walmart, BBY etc in the twin Cities area.
post #122 of 231
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Broccoli View Post

people are so silly why all the 360 vs PS3 hate but I guess thats why we have so many wars around the world.

Few people know that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict started over competing game consoles.
post #123 of 231
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

Few people know that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict started over competing game consoles.

I always thought Iraq had a **** ton of PS3s, we just couldnt find them.
post #124 of 231
Few people know that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict started over competing game consoles.

Ironically, the new game systems are not allowed to be shipped ot places like North Korea, because they can be used in missle guidance systems
post #125 of 231
Kmart.com has the 20gig again with a 90 day guarantee if anyone is interested.
post #126 of 231
Chicago suburbs here. Been to several stores over the weekend, nobody had any PS3s in stock.
post #127 of 231
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post #128 of 231
Circuit City in Joliet and Orland Park IL have many in stock in store and online...have been in stock for awhile...I just picked up my second PS3 20GB for my FP room...and it also included the BD movie Talladega Nights...which I thought only came with the first 500,000 players. There movie selection is pretty much full...the salesperson said the PS3's are not selling very well.
post #129 of 231
Dublin (Nothern CA) BB and Pleasanton Walmart both have PS3s in stock, but no Wiis. I was just there yesterday trying to pick up a Wii.

post #130 of 231
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

It's not that demand is drying up, it's the production is finally meeting demand combined with after Christmas bills, and massive returns by system scalpers (as many as 7 per store).

Retail traditionally craps in January, surges will be back for the president's day sales, and then again when the college kids have their summer job money

Production start for the PS3 can be traced back as far as Mid July, and as much as Sony says that they managed to iron out ALL of their production problems, I doubt it. I don't think any other manufacturer has done what Sony did for the holidays. Instead of a several week delay in getting more units via surface shipments Sony sent God knows how many PS3's via AIR, which is incredibly expensive. Unfortunately for Sony that brief 1-2 week period KILLED most of the hype and the fact that PS3s were not as rare as everyone anticipated (I picked up mine on december 23rd with no hassle) killed the buzz, big time.

Now everyone is saying that it's not "lack of demand" but an overproduction!
lol, yeah right.

The fact that the Japanese sales are extremely tepid should be the ultimate barometer for the overall short-mid-term health of the PS3. The Japanese are very loyal (and traditionally have been fanatical to Sony's previous offerings) and also love gadgets and electronics. For the PS3 not to sell out is not good news for Sony.

Everyone also keeps on thinking that sales in Europe are going to be gangbusters, but also forget that the Europeans are going to be paying the most for the PS3 and they are already pist at Sony for shafting them in the initial launch AND, most importantly, the PS3 hype has been deflated by the North American/Japanese launch and the incredible (real) complete sell out of the Wii in Europe.

Ultimately, I am angry with Sony for sacrificing it's incredibly profitable games division just to shove Blu-Ray in everyone's face. Face it everyone, if it were not for the choice of putting the Blu-Ray in the PS3 (a decision that was made early on according to game developers), then we would not have this stupid format war, as Sony most likely would have come to some kind of compromise with the HD DVD camp and the new "HD" format would have had time to progress naturally to be incorporated in the NEXT generation game systems.

As it stands now, Sony -may- win the "HD" format war, but at such an incredible cost it may ruin them.

Don't think so? Sony is a big corporation you say?

Well, Sony's greatest profit and revenue has come from the Playstation line. They also enjoyed being the market leader for almost 10 years. They had clout and power. Both of which are now almost totally gone in one fell swoop. Sony now only LOSES an incredible amount of money on each PS3 sold; money that will take an incredible amount of game and BR sales just to BREAK EVEN. The worst part is that the PS3, as it stands right now, is considered to be an overpriced system with no good games, let alone games worth the $600 price tag. No "breakout" games for the PS3 are coming out till December 2007, and then they will still be in short supply. In the meantime, for an entire YEAR, Sony has to build it's brand on lackluster games, extremely few exclusive games, a very high price tag, and the constant comparison to the 360, which in the games so far released on both the 360 and the PS3, there has been no difference, or a difference in favor of the 360.

So by the time interest builds up again for the PS3, it will be deflated by an obvious price drop by the 360 (and most likely the Wii as well) as well as HALO 3.

You see, the PS3 cannot be anything BUT a success. If it is anything less than a total success, it will fail. There is simply too much money tied up in the PS3 for it to fail. If it fails, it will bring down Sony.

Sony can only bring down production costs by PRODUCING more PS3s. If demand is not there, Sony cannot afford to stockpile systems until the demand is there due to the high cost of production.

Sony's strategy for the PS3 was for it to sell 100 million systems over the course of the next five years. Something I don't think will be possible now.
post #131 of 231

Nice post.

The PS3 strategy Sony chose may end up costing the company in a major way. The PS3 is a very expensive game console but it is much more than that and that is what Sony is banking on. We will not know the success/failure of this approach for years.

Anyone who bought the PS3 at this point in time for gaming only is fairly foolish or is hardcore gamer. The launch slate was pretty well known with RFoM being the only game that was not available on the 360 that was worth anything. Anyone else who bought the PS3 either bought it as a Blu Ray player or for both Blu Ray and gaming. Those consumers got a major bargain.

If the worst case scenario happens and the PS3 puts Sony out of business (unlikely but if it did it would be many years from now), I think that you can agree that by then most PS3 owners got their money's worth. The only exceptions -could- be the purchasers for gaming only.

Amazon and Best Buy online are still out of stock. I do not think ANYONE (bashers or fanboys) can talk about supply and demand until official numbers come out. It seems on AVS that for every 2-3 reports of someone finding them at a B&M store you have others who cannot find them. For example, near my home I've been to two major retailers (BB and Walmart) that "should" have them and while I was not looking for a PS3 specifically, I did browse the game section and asked and neither had them in stock. That view means NOTHING to overall demand especially when you consider that Amazon and Best Buy online are out of stock. Hell, I hardly buy anything from B&M stores anymore including electronics.
post #132 of 231
Blakes7 - if ever there was a time for Sony to sacrifice their games division, it is now. It was what kept the company in the black once, but no longer. This year the games division will be expected to post a $2 billion loss... the fact that on top of that, and the battery recall, Sony will still make a profit tells you how far they've come.

I think everybody on this forum needs to familiarize themselves with Sony's financials a little more, because there's a lot of confusion.

Anyway PS3 demand will start picking up late Feb and into March, of this I have little doubt. I didn't buy an original Playstation until FFVII launched; it only takes one monster game to jumpstart momentum. I think Heavenly Sword and Motorstorm in the timeframe I mentioned, followed by MGS4 and DMC4 down the line, and FFXIII a little later will form a solid base for the traditional Sony fan base to work off of.

PS - I'm not saying that Sony should or is going to 'sacrifice' SCE literally, what I'm saying is that for larger company initiatives like BD and digital distribution, it's going to form the centerpiece of their offensive, and I think they are willing to endure losses in that division to achieve gains in those broader areas.
post #133 of 231
Blakes7, theswami, xbedestroya...

Great posts guys.

I have been very vocal about my dislike of Sony's pricing structure for the PS3. But to be honest, I understand what they are trying to do. Sony is a multi-billion dollar conglomerate, they achieved this status by their willingness to take risks and by making more profitable decisions than unprofitable.

In my opinion, Sony believes that if they can capitalize on their playstation fan base, and turn those folks into blu ray fans their revenues and profits will be enhanced greatly. Instead of simply dominating the console market, they would be a pioneer and major player in the high definition DVD arena. Think about what that would do for the image of their company, their stock price, and their shareholders if they were able to successfully achieve their goals?

Nonetheless, while I understand Sony's motivation I still have concerns regarding their decision to include blu ray technology in the PS3. As I stated earlier, the pricing of the PS3 is problematic. Sony is hoping that people will be so thrilled with high def DVDs that they will be willing to pay a premium (a premium when compared to the costs of an standard def dvd player). The benefits of high def DVDs may be obvious to those of us who frequent AVS. We are home theater and gaming ethusiasts we can see the benefits of high def dvds. Additionally, we are the consumers who possess the net disposable income and/or are willing to spend the dollars necessary to purchase high def technology.

But for Sony to be successful, they need more than the AVS faithful and early adopters to purchase PS3s. They need the existing PSone and PS2 fan bases in addition to non home theater ethusiasts who are currently fans of standard def DVDs. The pricing structure may alienate existing PSone & PS2 console owners, particularly when they see that Sony's new system costs more than Microsofts and Nintendos. In addition, I believe the non home theater ethusiasts cannot see a significant difference between standard def & high def dvds that would warrant paying upwards $600 - $1,200.00 for a blu ray player. Understand that my intent is not to insult the non- home theater ethusiasts.

Besides price I think Sony may have underestimated the demand for Nintendo's Wii (truth be told we all probably underestimated the Wii's success). Obviously the Wii does not have the graphical horsepower of the PS3, but I imagine the new Wii controller, current pricing structure, and initial games are fueling demand for this product. Dollars spent on the Wii represent dollars not going to Sony PS3 hardware, gaming peripheals, PS3 games, and blu ray software. Perhaps the Wii is a novelty, and that demand will decrease significantly in the next few months. But even if that were the case, Microsoft has a tremendous headstart on Sony in terms of hardware sales, Microsoft is currently producing second generation games, and Microsoft has the flexiblity to lower their prices on the 360 hardware which would re-enforce the price difference between the 2 consoles in the minds of consumers.

I'm not going as far as stating that Sony is going to go bankrupt, I am predicting that they may be in a much tougher fight than they anticipated....particularly in the console market. I believe Sony knew from the beginning that they were in for a fight with Toshiba in regards to format supremacy.
post #134 of 231
Just a few comments so as not to overlook some of these realities:

- PS3 starts at $500(for 20gb) not $600. What is the price difference between a Xbox 360 w/ HDDVD compared to the PS3 w/ Blu-ray? Same, right? Why are people so myopic when it come to entrance price? As a stand alone game console I'll concede that there is a $100 difference. Big deal! Skip 2 dinners w/ the wife or tell her to hold back on a pair of shoes. Oops, kids buy these I guess that matters(drink less beer) but the ps3 does post better specs.

-Xbox 360 better games? No kidding! The 360 was being blasted a year ago for lack of games. Let's see what we get in a year or so. OTOH perhaps MS will win with the 1st to market approach and the poor perceived perception some have with the ps3.

- Wii - Probably the real reason why the Sony is not selling. Buy more Wii's! I own Nintendo stock.

-LCD sales is why Sony stock just went up and their stock was upgraded. BTW they have a lot of profitable divisions. Their pj's are pretty good too.

-People like to bash Sony and Microsoft types which I can somewhat understand but lets not forget that these are and were the innovators and paved the road for numerous successes despite a laundry list of failures ( Beta, etc).
post #135 of 231
LOL. Anyone remember this AWESOME commercial?


This about sums up why the Wii is ruling the roost right now. It doesn't get much better than that ad right there. All through the Sony smack talk I think the Nintendo folks were just sitting back and waiting for reality to smak the world in the face. People love having a lot of fun that won't cost them an arm and a leg.

Kudos to Nintendo for knowing how to play the game. They have obviously figured out how to reach the masses with a fun inexpensive option while Sony banked on people unloading a ton of cash "because its a PS3."
post #136 of 231
Analyst: PS3 Stock Left in Channel 'Troubling'


McNealy went on to note that the PS3 has been readily in stock in early January, with many retailers offering both the 20GB and 60GB versions. Nintendo's Wii, on the other hand continues to sell out quickly when shipments come in. "It is our position that while the PS3 launch is seven+ weeks old, we find it a little troubling to find the console in stock," he said. "There will likely be much time spent by investors and analysts trying to read the sales data from seven weeks and extrapolate for the rest of CY07. Our current assumption has been that the PS3 cross-over point between supply and demand would happen in the June quarter, when the PS3 would be widely available everywhere. We are surprised to see the PS3 in stock in some stores at this point, and are reviewing why this could be the case and what factors could change this over the next 12 months"
post #137 of 231
As Sony Playstation3 Underperfroms In Japan, Prospects Fade


Sales of the Playstation3 have fallen well short of expectations in the critical Japanese market Research firm Enterbrain says that Sony (SNE) sold a little over 534,000 PS3 units from its November 11 launch to January 7. Sony had hoped to sell one million units in Japan during 2006.


Big problems with the PS3 would spell big problems for Sony. In the September 2006 quarter, game sales were $1.44 billion of Sony's total $15.71 billion in revenue. But in fiscal 2005, operating income from the game division was nearly 40% of the company's total, despite its relatively small percentage of total revenue.

Opererating profit at Sony's studios and consumer electronics business are unlikely to take up the slack, so Sony could be headed for real trouble.
post #138 of 231
Traylorc and mimason, good points.

I want to weigh in on this some more though because I really feel that people tend to view the console war as a zero-sum game. First of all, mimason I'm glad you own Nintendo stock - I wanted to buy some like 6 months ago but my funds were tied up. I think it's a definite win.

Back to zero-sum...

For years and years, uneducated console-watchers across the Net have discussed how Nintendo should just pull out of the console race, and "how could they win," etc etc... To those people I would always say: of course Nintendo isn't going anywhere - they're profitable!

A lot of people have trouble with that idea - that you don't need to have the highest install base to "win," you simply have to make it worth your time. Should Apple have folded it's cards years ago when people were writing that company off? No. And they weren't profitable! But they got there again, and before the whole iPod craze also.

If Nintendo ends up with 200 million consoles sold by the end of 2011, Microsoft 75 million, and Sony 40 million... that 40 will still be competetive as long as it has ultimately resulted in a financial situation Sony is comfortable with. And these are just arbitrary numbers, I don't think they reflect what will actually happen, but it's just to make a point.

Remember, before there was Wii, there was ~ten years of negativity surrounding N64 and GameCube. Perhaps the uber-technology route isn't the way to go, perhaps it is. Like Mac vs PC, I'd say there are viable niches for most concepts in the market. Maybe PS3 will ultimately have a lukewarm run... but it could be the PS5 that we're all really waiting for, just like no one knew they were waiting for the Wii, until they tried it.

Anyway, I just think that ultimately PS3 will be fine, and it'll get the job done for Sony. It may not earn the gold in all the figurative competetitons it's presently entered into (and it's entered into a lot of them), but it only needs to score on a couple to have made the effort ultimately worth Sony's while. Obviously if it doesn't score on *any*, it's going to be remembered as a cataclysmic product financially.

But Sony's predicted financials this year have shown us, they can weather such a cataclysm and not let it take them into the red.
post #139 of 231
Originally Posted by mimason View Post

Just a few comments so as not to overlook some of these realities:

- PS3 is $500 not $600. What is the price difference between a Xbox 360 w/ HDDVD compared to the PS3 w/ Blu-ray? Same, right? Why are people so myopic when it come to entrance price? As a stand alone game console I'll concede that there is a $100 difference. Big deal! Skip 2 dinners w/ the wife or tell her to hold back on a pair of shoes. Oops, kids buy these I guess that matters(drink less beer) but the ps3 does post better specs.

To a number of folks the price of the PS3 is $600...people are going to quote the price of 60 gig as the price of the system. Just human nature I guess...

But in my mind the difference between the 360/HD-DVD drive and a PS3 is that consumers have to option not to purchase the HD-DVD drive or purchase it at a later date once the "war" has been decided. You do not have the luxury with the PS3, you are paying for blu ray capabilities regardless if you are a fan of blu ray.

As far as people being myopic in regards to price...what else is new? Consumers have always been price sensitive, and most likely will always be price sensitive. Nintendo understood this...they knew they could not compete with the PS3 on specs, but they could compete on price. Personally, I am fortunate that I have a job which allows me to indulge my hobbies/addictions and pick up all 3 consoles. However, I realize that others are not as fortunate so therefore price is an important element when contemplating a purchase.

The best thing Sony can do is convince the customer that what they are receiving is worth the price. If Sony can convince consumers that the gaming & blu ray functions are worth the extra money then consumers will purchase the PS3. If not they will seek out alternatives.
post #140 of 231
Hey, if we can get people to quit unrationally looking at price, forget the game systems, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the damn $0.009 at the end of our gas prices (even if we add $0.001 per gallon).
post #141 of 231
Originally Posted by mimason View Post

As a stand alone game console I'll concede that there is a $100 difference.

I don't know if it's still going on, but over the holidays Microcenter was selling the Xbox for $200 and $300. That would be about a $300 difference between the similar line models, which seems like a big deal to me.
post #142 of 231
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I don't know if it's still going on, but over the holidays Microcenter was selling the Xbox for $200 and $300. That would be about a $300 difference between the similar line models, which seems like a big deal to me.

This does not really count. These are promos offered by resellers. I could win a PS3 for free and say it was $500 less. I understand what you are saying. Street deals are legitimate decision makers at times.

Also, your $300 reference is not a like comparison. A fair comparison would be the $500 20 gb PS3 and the $400(Microcenter special $300) 20gb 360. FWIW, I remember Amazon blew out some 360's and PS3's a while back too for low low prices.
post #143 of 231
Originally Posted by mimason View Post

This does not really count. These are promos offered by resellers.

Does it count when both Target and Circuit City discounted the 360 also? I think one had $100 gift card, the other a $50 gift card. Also, there have been sales with free games and/or wireless controllers ($50 value). It seems to me that there were plenty of opportunities for anyone who wanted a discounted ($200) Xbox 360 could have gotten one.

I think Microsoft should have dropped the price of their 360 before the holiday season at least $50 if not a full $100 just to keep the buzz on them instead of giving it up to the PS3 and Wii.
post #144 of 231
^ Perhaps you missed my comment about street pricing. All things relative we are discussing MSRP of the players. There seems always to be an exception to the rule.

Also, let's remember we are in Blu-ray forum so we really should be discussing apples to apples. So in effect we probably should be relegating our posts to the 360+hd-dvd drive compared to the ps3. The console only discussion sb in the console section. JMHO.
post #145 of 231
Originally Posted by PerryD View Post

I think Microsoft should have dropped the price of their 360 before the holiday season at least $50 if not a full $100 just to keep the buzz on them instead of giving it up to the PS3 and Wii.

Playing Devil's Advocate for just a sec....I think Microsoft did the right thing by not dropping their price.

Both Nintendo and Sony were having a difficult time keeping retailers adequately stocked with Wii's and PS3. There were lots of frustrated consumers who probably wound up turning to the 360 as an alternative to not being able to pick up one of the aforementioned systems. Just the fact that there were supply issues with the competitor's consoles kept a positive buzz on Microsoft. You probably had a number desparate shoppers who were unable to pick up a Wii or PS3 for a loved one, but were willing to pay full price for a 360 as an alternative.

Microsoft knows that there is plenty of time to drop the price of the 360 in the future, no need to cut prices and give up revenues during the busiest shopping period of the year.
post #146 of 231
the price wars will be interesting
post #147 of 231
For those of you keeping stats, in North America, 490.7 K PS3 sold in December, and 687.3 K total PS3 sold to date according to NPD numbers just released.

Someone correct me if I am wrong about the North America part... or if these are just US totals... I believe NPD is North America.
post #148 of 231
NPD is just US totals.

that number matches the expected total of about 800k sold in north america by the 1st of january '07, as canada seemed to get a lot of launch units. i remember a lot of the units sold on ebay being from up in canada
post #149 of 231
I agree, the number ultimately is not bad, and in line with what's been announced.

Some context from NPD historical numbers:


November 06 - 197,000

December 06 - 490,700


November 05 - 326,000

December 05 - 281,441

January 06 - 249,000

February 06 - 161,000

March 06 - 192,000

April 06 - 295,381

May 06 - 221,000

June 06 - 277,000

Going forward, relating PS3 monthly sales to the 360 baramoter should give a sense of where it stands in comparison to it's most immediate competition in terms of early-life ramp.
post #150 of 231
491k sold is anemic compared to the 1.1 million 360s sold in December.
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