CES 2007: Total HD, Hybrid players (high definition)

Yeah it will be a mess. But we kind of saw the multi-HD-format support coming in one form or another, similar to DVD+/-R burners. I think most thought it would be in the form of a player that could play both formats rather than a disk that plays on either player. Interesting.

If it works as advertised, and it eliminates incompatibilities, that's a good thing. If it does not, then it might just make stuff less compatable. This could be awful, making the purchase of Total DH disks a gamble. Will they play on my HD DVD player, or my BluRay player, or only on my hybrid player?

Great. Endless possibilities of less compatability...

Oh, and now my television won't tune in anything because the broadcast formats have all changed and I don't qualify for the government subsidized STB--as if I wanted a new STB! AND... dang, now I need some cheese to go with this whine.

While there might be some attraction by videophiles to this stuff, mainstream TV watchers will be plenty happy with the current gen DVDrs (with features such as digital tuners and HDD added). The volume will not be there for a long time to bring this technology main stream. The current gen DVDrs w/ HDD (once digital tuners are added) will satisfy the 90%+ of people who want to do some light time shifting or archiving. The increased PQ alone will not make this technology a must have for a very long time.

Agreed.

But I do question whether or not digital tuners in DVD recorders will satisfy 90%+ of the people. Digital tuners in DVD recorders will only address "over the air" local broadcasts. And perhaps "clear" cable channels if a QAM tuner is involved - which only includes local broadcast channels.

How does a digital tuner in a DVD recorder address anything else? For example Discovery HD. Let alone 90%+ of the population.

More important is the composite/s-video/component inputs in a DVD recorder. Which will remain unchanged.

What else is there to address? 90%+ of the population that wants a recorder uses one for light time shifting and archiving - how they get the material is not really important. They don't need any HD recording for that. The only thing all of these HD technologies provide is a slightly better PQ (compared to a 480i downrezed HD signal) and longer archiving capability - neither of which is that pressing an issue at the moment.

The avg Joe TV watcher will be plenty happy to move on from the VHS VCR he has known for 20 years to a DVDr w/HDD for his recording needs. He won't need HD recording capability for a long time.

Then the importance of an ASTC tuner in the next generation of DVD recorders accomplishes what? Especially for cable and satellite subscribers? Actually very little.

It will be great for those that currently receive their broadcasts analog OTA via an antenna. I think this is GREAT! Beyond that it is a non event in my mind.

Well, to be honest, there is a non-insignificant number of early-adopter types who are GOING BACK (or at least supplementing) to OTA because of the digital broadcasts.. e.g. with a series 3 Tivo.

I've very often said that "digital is not automatically better than analog" in discussions here and elsewhere, but even I will *attempt* to receive OTA digital channels, and if I get them well, will use them.. I won't cancel cable because of it, but it may save me from getting cablecards..

Biggest problem with cable cards is that they are one way. At this point in time they are not addressable. This could change soon but in the mean time you lose a lot. For example PPV - Pay Per View.

Nothing wrong with that but if I had a choice (and I do) I'd choose the cable box.

The 90% avg Joe TV watcher that needs just light time shifting and archiving is the same avg Joe that mostly watches network programming. So for him having a QAM tuner equipped DVDr is a big deal since he can connect it directly to the coax and get great PQ. The numbers I saw for reception of TV material was something like 15% OTA and 60% cable (the rest sat). The great majority of those folks watch network programming mostly. A DVDr w/ a digital tuner is a big deal, especially in the long term when both OTA and eventually cable analog will be shut down.

I do agree it's a non event for sat subs with the exception that along with a digital tuner makers might include some other new feature as well.

PS One little gem people also will find with a QAM tuner - you can watch your neighbor's PPV.

All an ATSC tuner is going to do is get you your local over the air channels digitally. Instead of what your NTSC tuner does now via analog. If you have a SD television you might see an improvement in PQ. But it will still be SD. If you have an HD television you already have an ATSC tuner. With a DVD recorder you will be able to tune in your local over the air channels digitally. If you currently have an SD setup it will not magically make it HD. That's as good as it gets.

The government mandate was designed to free up spectrum. Not make new and wonderful things available to the average Joe. Once the analog is shut down the spectrum will be leased to the highest bidder. Which means a lot of dough for the government.

As far as your neighbor's pay per view. Those days are over. When QAM tuners first came out (years ago) cable companies did not realize that the tuners opened a window to the network. And yes you could tune into any "clear" or unencrypted channel. Pay per view was not encrypted on some cable company networks. As a matter of fact Sanyo even went as far as disabling their QAM tuners because of complaints of adult material being made available. But those days are long over. Cable companies have long understood what QAM tuners do and have encrypted pay per view as a result. About the only extras I get right now are 60 second continuous loops advertising HBO. There is no free lunch.

I have to agree with the need for new DVDRs with ATSC and QAM tuners. Even with the cable companies PVR's, these can be used for supplemental recordings, or additional tuners. Also, I find it much easier to record directly to the DVDR without a cable cox in the loop, for scheduling etc. (mainly the problem of coordination between the cable box channels and schedule and the current DVDR's schedule). If you are using the cable company DVR, it also eliminates the time it takes to copy from the DVR to the DVDR.

I realize that afforadable ATSC/QAM DVDR's will not be Hi-Def for a long time, but the quality of the recordings from the digital tuner played back on the newer large screen HDTV's far surpasses the current analog recordings played back on the same TV

I am currently looking for a solution for recording just network HD channels for playback on an HDTV for my Dad. He currently is using the QAM tuner in the TV and is happy with that. He doesn't want to upgrade to the cable company HD service for all of the other channels he does not watch in order to get a cable box. His service would increase about $40 month.

I have been researching solutions and there do not appear to be any right now. His current TIVO (series 2) looks terrible, but even the new Series 3 at $800 does not let you integrate the QAM channels in the TIVO interface. The OTA from his location is spotty, so that is not really an option except for a couple of channels.

I am hoping we see some basic ATSC/QAM DVDR's announced a CES this week.

By the way he does get all of the neighbors On Demand and PPV
, but this is really not good as you never know what they will be watching!

I meant to say VOD, not PPV, although as the post above notes that is still happening.

Interesting article from 2004:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/feat...n_20040201.htm

Interesting forum thread here:

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/248819

And the best place to start to research channel availability is here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Good old AVS.

I checked the member lists and there is an averagejoe registered with the forum, so perhaps he may comment at some time to let us know what he really watches.

The averagejoes' I know, don't play Dodgeball and think QAM is a techno punk rock group.

LOL...funny.

Once you start recording and archiving 1080i HD material...you forget about SD DVD recorders.

I have literally thousands of programs archived going back to the early 1980's. I love them for their historical and memory value.

However my growing 1080i archive is what I watch 98% of the time. Standard def now looks terribly inferior.

Oh...and the PQ is not slightly better....it is better by a hugh margin on a 92" screen.

That might be true, but the new sets of DVDR's coming out this year will not record 1080i onto a DVD nor will they have HD DVD /BluRay Burners in them so I don't really see your point of your post in relation to US based DVD recorders.

You sir, are definitely not avg Joe.

There are a few markets that have local news in HD (not mine). Also with the new "children's programming laws" that went into effect on Jan 1, all of the local stations have turned off their 24x7 weather channels. The only channel in my market (Austin, TX) left multi-casting is PBS (1 SD station 24x7 and one HD station from 8pm-1am).

Basically, you have to run 3 hours per week of "E/I" programming per channel/sub-channel to follow FCC rules. So instead of adding 3 hours of children's programming to their main station, they simply turned off the 24x7 weather channels....so my number of OTA digital channels decreased by 3 with the new year.

I am hoping we see some basic ATSC/QAM DVDR's announced at CES this week.

Me too. In fact, today on "CES Eve" I find the absence of buzz about this remarkable. Only 53 days from now, today's DVDRs won't be legal to make and sell since they include NTSC and not ATSC tuners. On the other hand, a DVDR with an ATSC tuner, hard drive, and decent outputs would be a superset of a product like the Samsung DTB-H260F set-top box. At a minimal cost add-on, I think it could command a big price premium. Surely the industry will respond to this profit opportunity? Or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first time. )

The makers and sellers will have a different interpretation of the law. All existing stock is certainly legal to sell after 3/07 (of which there could be mountains). And although they are not supposed to be imported after that date I'm sure there'll be boats on the Pacific in March with analog tuner equipment fresh on its way from China that won't be turned away. No, they won't be coming off the assembly line anymore, but it will be quite some time before analog tuner equipment disappears from the shelves.

But those don't have digital tuners.