or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 392

post #11731 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewey1200 View Post

if my xpa-2 is 300wpc should i use 300wpc all the way around the five channels? i'm thinking about adding an xpa-3 (200wpc) does that 100 watt difference create an imbalance?

No it won't cause any sort of problems at all. For one thing, the difference between 200 watts and 300 watts is just 1.5dB. That can easily be accommodated in the channel trim settings of your AVR. If you use Audyssey, it will automatically set the trims to the right levels. For another thing, you will *never* run the amps flat out. Depending on the efficiency of your speakers you might be typically using 20-50 watts, with the power demand rising substantially for peaks that last for less than a second to a few seconds at most - and then never on all channels at the same time. The XPA-2 and XPA-3 are hugely powerful amps and you won't ever run them flat out, so don't worry about it. If you already had the XPA-3 I'd recommend using a UPA-2 for the other two channels but as you have the XPA-2 in the system already, then the XPA-3 is the logical choice. That will give you a hugely powerful setup. Enjoy!

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11732 of 17194
Just to be picky, trims are not there to solve a difference in power - if both amps have the same sensitivity, they will play equally loud if all other conditions are equal. A power imbalance will result in one amp distorting before the other (again if all conditions are equal, such as speaker sensitivity and listening distance.)

In fact, if your rear speakers are closer than your front speakers, you may need power for the same peaks. Or if your rear speakers are more sensitive, etc.
post #11733 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I don't know that it's a huge problem. I took measurements once, and the surround channels had lower SPL peaks than the front channels. Depends on the movie perhaps.

If you only have 200 in the back and 300 in the front, there's some possibility that the rear channels will put a limit on your peak (undistorted) SPL. However, the difference may not be large.

If his rears ever peak out (power-wise, not transient-wise) at 200w with his fronts running 300w, or even 200w, it will be the last thing he ever hears.
post #11734 of 17194
I'm looking to by an emotiva xpa-5 and was wondering if there were any 5 channel colored cord cables that are cheaper than the ones I found on Blue Jeans cable? I think they were about 100 bucks. Was hoping I could find something on amazon or something. Any help out there? Would rather buy something like this other than 5 of the same RCA cables.
post #11735 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by movies2090 View Post

I'm looking to by an emotiva xpa-5 and was wondering if there were any 5 channel colored cord cables that are cheaper than the ones I found on Blue Jeans cable? I think they were about 100 bucks. Was hoping I could find something on amazon or something. Any help out there? Would rather buy something like this other than 5 of the same RCA cables.

You could use three of these. Im using these with my XPA-5. I used two paired cables for four channels. You still have the Red and White markings so you wont get right and left mixed up. For the center I carefully split one paired cable down the middle to give me a single cable. You will need to slightly split the cables at the back of the amp because the paired cables wont reach the inputs. Using the cables like this really makes for a clean install. You have two tightly paired cables and only one single running behind your rack instead of five separate cables or a five paired cable if you could even find one of those. Those get bulky. Three of these is less than $7 to get the job done. Thats way better than $100. Even if you need the 6ft length it would still be under $10.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
post #11736 of 17194
I was thinking about upgrading my stock power cables, would getting thicker power cable make any SQ difference with my gear? is pangea brand any good or are they overprice hype?
post #11737 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandnegroid View Post

I was thinking about upgrading my stock power cables, would getting thicker power cable make any SQ difference with my gear? is pangea brand any good or are they overprice hype?

I'll let you know i'm doing up some DIY power cables soon .
all the parts anit here yet
here's a start on the how after that google is yer friend


http://www.furutech.com/a2008/review...o=52&r2_no=513
post #11738 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


No it won't cause any sort of problems at all. For one thing, the difference between 200 watts and 300 watts is just 1.5dB. That can easily be accommodated in the channel trim settings of your AVR. If you use Audyssey, it will automatically set the trims to the right levels. For another thing, you will *never* run the amps flat out. Depending on the efficiency of your speakers you might be typically using 20-50 watts, with the power demand rising substantially for peaks that last for less than a second to a few seconds at most - and then never on all channels at the same time. The XPA-2 and XPA-3 are hugely powerful amps and you won't ever run them flat out, so don't worry about it. If you already had the XPA-3 I'd recommend using a UPA-2 for the other two channels but as you have the XPA-2 in the system already, then the XPA-3 is the logical choice. That will give you a hugely powerful setup. Enjoy!

Kind Regards,

Keith

I have an XPA-2 & XPA-5. I agree 100% with what Keith has posted above.

Dave.
post #11739 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Repdetect View Post

If his rears ever peak out (power-wise, not transient-wise) at 200w with his fronts running 300w, or even 200w, it will be the last thing he ever hears.

Not quite that bad. Peaks may hit that based on my math. It's not continuous assault.

In fact reference level movie sound calls for 105 dB peaks on the main channels. Depending on various factors, it's possible that's at least 200 watts. But I agree with the general sentiment here (but lack exact data

For the record, I have a Crown XLS 1000 with a clipping indicator. The only way I ever got it to come on, was to increase volume above 0 dB (with the speakers disconnected, I had no desire to subject my ears to it.) Based on this weak evidence, I would say I need less than 200 watts / channel for the rear speakers even at reference level.
post #11740 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Just to be picky, trims are not there to solve a difference in power - if both amps have the same sensitivity, they will play equally loud if all other conditions are equal. A power imbalance will result in one amp distorting before the other (again if all conditions are equal, such as speaker sensitivity and listening distance.)

In fact, if your rear speakers are closer than your front speakers, you may need power for the same peaks. Or if your rear speakers are more sensitive, etc.

Yes, that's true but all academic. It is extremely unlikely to happen in real life. The issue I think the OP is concerned about is whether there will be an audible imbalance in his system if he uses a 200 watt amp and a 300 watt amp together. There won't be. If he is worried, as you suggest, about one amp running into distortion before the other one, then the solution is even more powerful amps than he is contemplating, which to me seems extraordinarily unlikely. So I stand by my answer to him: he won't have any problem at all with what he suggests unless there is something very unusual about his system which he hasn't revealed.

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11741 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandnegroid View Post

I was thinking about upgrading my stock power cables, would getting thicker power cable make any SQ difference with my gear? is pangea brand any good or are they overprice hype?

It will be a waste of your money. The power cord provided with your equipment is more than adequate to do the job.

Read this, then spend your money on something that will make a real difference to your system instead:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...s/power-cables

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11742 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewey1200 View Post

if my xpa-2 is 300wpc should i use 300wpc all the way around the five channels? i'm thinking about adding an xpa-3 (200wpc) does that 100 watt difference create an imbalance?

thanks for the responses to this question,i feel better about buying an xpa-3 now.btw after feeling the power of the xpa-2 i don't want to use my receivers amps at all.now if i can get everything in the room to stop vibrating.
post #11743 of 17194
just remember this that the xpa-2 has a 8ohm 300 watt capacity, where as the both the xpa-5 and xpa-3 have a 300 watt at 4ohm capacity. the xpa2 has a 500 watt at 4 ohm capacity..


not sure if i'd hear a difference between 300 an 500 watts at 4 ohms though i'd suppose it would be possible to hear a difference...
post #11744 of 17194
while I'm not here to make any claims on power cords but even Keith's post has lead to a alcoholics article on power cords . & the reason I have gone to a DIY route ( I also am putting in dedicated power circuits that will be breaker box to wall outlet no splits/splices in the 10 Gauge 3 wire romex ) note that the writer of this article is from Australia a direct quote here on US A/C power
Quote
( " One useful observation is that the mains in the US seems to be basically pretty nasty, and not at all what we are used to in Australia . Interference seems to be a major problem, and if this is the case, it will find its way through the power supply and into the amplifier (or other equipment) if the power supply is not well designed.Also, because of the lower mains voltage in the US (nominally 120V), the current drawn by power amplifiers in particular can cause real problems with cheap light duty cables. I have already made this point, but it is worth making again. Use of a heavy duty lead (possibly shielded if interference is a problem) will make a difference. Whether the power difference is audible or not is debatable, but elimination (or even reduction) of mains borne interference is likely to result in a worthwhile improvement in sound quality." )

Unquote

he goes on to say that the US plugs on P/C's are some what inferior to most of the UK,EU & AU as well the wall outlets being inferior .

here's the the whole article page # 6 that deals with power cords

http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-6

****now a disclaimer : I'm not drinking the Koolaid or buying the snake oil on speaker wires & interconnects that he talks about on these items ,in this same article...
good old 12 gauge zip wire works for me as well as Monowire interconnects****

But as he states the US has a really nasty power grid.

the power that comes into US homes varies wildly by region,state,town, even city blocks to even how your house/apartment bldg/condo was built . Even in your own home a Personal computer, refrigerator,light dimmer ,numerous various electrical items add signal noise back into your homes A/C power . In my house I do notice that when a vacuum is on the FM signal gets fuzzy ,the lights slightly dim at times when the refer motor turns on ,the whole house lights dim when I use power saws in the garage.
I'm making my own Power Cords in a some what larger gauge than a stock power cords supplied equipment with US standards with upgraded plugs & outlets . It's a personal choice based on my own experience with the above issues .
I am also using a power conditioner that uses a large toroidal power supply to clean up & stabilize the A/C current to a constant 120 volts . I do not advocate anyone to buy a power cord that costs more than what the upgraded DIY parts cost .

Soo plz no hijacking or flames ,this not the thread to debate cables & wires. If you don't have the issues that I have, as noted above, then you do not need a power cord .
post #11745 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

while I'm not here to make any claims on power cords but even Keith's post has lead to a alcoholics article on power cords.

Your right that its an alcoholics article because you'd have to be drunk as a skunk to believe that power cords make a difference
post #11746 of 17194
What does dirty power have to do with expensive power cords? How the heck will they fix that? I have to question that because you took the time to create a really long post somehow suggesting some relationship could exist. I remain unconvinced.

I may as well say something like 'Cars are really dangerous. Many people die each year. So use high octane fuel." See how invalid that is? Same thing, IMO.

Oh, I love how people say 'Here's a really long post off topic, and it's ok for me to do this, but PLEASE, don't respond because that would be off topic."

(Yes I am in a really bad mood, and I should not be posting...so that's my bad)
post #11747 of 17194
there is some truth in that article..


given some of the power cables i've seen produced some don't even rate for single phase use...

they are more for 3 phase use than anything else..

some of the snake oil and jungle juice i've heard talked about over the last 15-20 years in regards to power cables, speaker cables and other associated products some are true though there is still alot of falsehood's being spun around in the av arena..

if you plan to use emo gear yo might want to consider checking the household wiring before going to buy emo amps..

whether you run 120v or 240v you might want to make sure everything can support a 20 amp load at a bare minimum..

as for audioholics, it's like walking into an AA meeting with drug dependency issue and not getting any help when you don't have a booze problem in the 1st place, and you end up walking out and wanting to get a drink.. yet after AA meeting everyone ends up in the local bar drinking...
post #11748 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

What does dirty power have to do with expensive power cords? How the heck will they fix that? I have to question that because you took the time to create a really long post somehow suggesting some relationship could exist. I remain unconvinced.

I may as well say something like 'Cars are really dangerous. Many people die each year. So use high octane fuel." See how invalid that is? Same thing, IMO.

Oh, I love how people say 'Here's a really long post off topic, and it's ok for me to do this, but PLEASE, don't respond because that would be off topic."

(Yes I am in a really bad mood, and I should not be posting...so that's my bad)

My Bad for asking for this not to turn into a flame war

I was just saying, ( in way too many words, I agree there with you, Michael )
that I do not recommend an expensive power cord @ all .
& related a article that was written by the same site that Keith had posted on if the OP felt he needed expensive cord.
& if the OP feels he did need a expensive power cord then money(I M H O ) is better spent on a DIY cord .
GSDTrainer has seen the pun as intentioned.....
as for dirty power & expensive cords fixing a problem no idea from personal experience or science fact there either ,
I was just stating what issue my house had & how I was proceeding to try to resolve my issue .....
post #11749 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

while I'm not here to make any claims on power cords but even Keith's post has lead to a alcoholics article on power cords . & the reason I have gone to a DIY route

Hi Mike. Bringing it back OT (), it's important to remember that amplifiers do not run on AC. They run on DC. And if the power supply/transformer in the amp is even remotely well designed it will prevent 100% of AC "dirt" and "noise" getting through to the amp. So anything on that AC line is just filtered right out by the amp itself when it converts AC to DC. As the Emo power supplies and transformers are very good indeed, then it follows that there is no purposed to be served in swapping mains cables etc with any sort of view to "cleaning up the power supply".

HST, if my mains supply in my home was as poor as you say yours is, then I would want to do something about that - eg re-wiring and so on. But it would be for other reasons rather than to expect it would make the slightest audible difference to my HT sound. It certainly can't do any harm to improve the supply in your home, and for all sorts of reasons it's a great idea - but an audible difference in your SQ isn't one of those reasons.

Of course, I am in the UK where we have 240 volts and far bigger and better designed plugs on the ends of our mains cables and I appreciate that this is not the case in the States (I lived in Pasadena, CA for several years, many years ago).

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11750 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Your right that its an alcoholics article because you'd have to be drunk as a skunk to believe that power cords make a difference

Quite. The manufacturers of the equipment are forced by law to provide adequate power cords for their equipment. Making the power cord 'beefier' is pointless and certainly will not make any audible difference to the sound.

As for "dirty" or "noisy" power supplies, see my post to Mike re the fact that amps don't run on AC - they run on DC and any transformer/power supply worth its salt will prevent 100% of anything on the AC reaching the amp itself.

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11751 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quite. The manufacturers of the equipment are forced by law to provide adequate power cords for their equipment. Making them power cord 'beefier' is pointless and certainly will not make any audible difference to the sound.

As for "dirty" or "noisy" power supplies, see my post to Mike re the fact that amps don't run on AC - they run on DC and any transformer/power supply worth its salt will prevent 100% of anything on the AC reaching the amp itself.

Kind Regards,

Keith

I just think more expensive power chords give you more bragging rights , lol its dumb but true. it's like RC cables you could spend 1$ or 100$ most likely they will give you the same result. except that the expensive ones will usually look better if that's important to anyone.

post #11752 of 17194
Improving SQ is not my issue with why i'm looking @ the A/C power in terms of upgrading wiring from breaker box to my HT .
I want to have all my equipment safely , evenly powered.
The added benefit of having all the HT power cords look the same & be of the same quality is a personal touch .
Having a nice ,even ,clean look to my gear is important to me . The Emotiva UPA-7 adds to that .
post #11753 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Not quite that bad. Peaks may hit that based on my math. It's not continuous assault.

In fact reference level movie sound calls for 105 dB peaks on the main channels. Depending on various factors, it's possible that's at least 200 watts. But I agree with the general sentiment here (but lack exact data

For the record, I have a Crown XLS 1000 with a clipping indicator. The only way I ever got it to come on, was to increase volume above 0 dB (with the speakers disconnected, I had no desire to subject my ears to it.) Based on this weak evidence, I would say I need less than 200 watts / channel for the rear speakers even at reference level.

I agree Michael. Peaks can hit well over 1kw. I should have said 200w continuous. I think any system putting out 200w continuous into 5 ch in a home setting with average sensitivity speakers would deafen the listener.

Someone prove me wrong. I'll donate to your attending lip reading & signing school.
post #11754 of 17194
I can't imagine listening to any system playing that's drawing 200 watts average per channel. That would be very very loud.

In fact, I would say that in most people's systems, 10 watts average would be very very loud
post #11755 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post

I just think more expensive power chords give you more bragging rights , lol its dumb but true. it's like RC cables you could spend 1$ or 100$ most likely they will give you the same result. except that the expensive ones will usually look better if that's important to anyone.


Yeah - they don't do any harm (except to the wallet) but they don't do any good either. It's like putting magnets in your shoes...

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11756 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

Improving SQ is not my issue with why i'm looking @ the A/C power in terms of upgrading wiring from breaker box to my HT .
I want to have all my equipment safely , evenly powered.
The added benefit of having all the HT power cords look the same & be of the same quality is a personal touch .
Having a nice ,even ,clean look to my gear is important to me . The Emotiva UPA-7 adds to that .

Sure - I agree with all that, especially the safety angle. But many people seem to believe that a thicker power cord, or worse still, one that costs hundreds of dollars, will make an audible difference. Snake oil, Mike, as I am sure you're aware. Incidentally, your suggestions was a good one I thought: if anyone really, really wants a thicker or better looking power cord for their system, then make your own (assuming basic levels of competency in these things). And never, ever pay more for a ready-made cable than you'd pay to make your own. Good advice for those who can't resist the siren call of the snake oil salesman...

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11757 of 17194
I'll just copy / paste what I posted yesterday, over at the AH forum:


Hats off to you Kurt, in this another very educational explanation!

What I can tell you so far, is that I 've never even considered the possibility of changing the original power cord of the many equipments I've owned in more than 35 years and for sure never will... Call me dumb, though


Bottom line: to each, his own
post #11758 of 17194
^^^

i hacked the end off of whatever i had lying around and got the plug part at the home despot and did it that way...
post #11759 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

i hacked the end off of whatever i had lying around and got the plug part at the home despot and did it that way...

The home despot? Is that Gadaffi?

Kind Regards,

Keith
post #11760 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


The home despot? Is that Gadaffi?

Kind Regards,

Keith

My wife laughs at me because I call it The Home Dee Pot.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY]