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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 473

post #14161 of 16241
1/31/12 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

What was the motivation!

are you for REAL

Have you even read how RUDE these people are to me!

People are rude to you?

(facepalm)

You just apologized for an unwarranted attack against Theresa...

(another facepalm)

Forget it. Just go back to your ultra-caffinated, rantish posts.
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post #14162 of 16241
1/31/12 at 11:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

I'm sorry for my tone with you Theresa. It wasn't warranted. It's just others here really jump on my back and beat me from time to time and thus my tone and vibe becomes negative.

I'm going to make it my goal that you get a new connector/fuse/coupling PCB for that amp of yours.

I would not be afraid to actually do the repair yourself at home. I'm most certain Dan and friends would be more than willing to send a new PCB out to you!

The amp has bleeder/discharge caps so if you just let it sit for half and hour and make sure it's not plugged in when you do the repair there is no concern what so ever that you could injure yourself.

I just gotta ask. Why can't all your posts be like this one? I don't mean apologetic, rather the normal, everyday tone. I've read many of your posts here and at Emo, and you seem to get into a frenzy instantly, either positive or negative. You obviously have some knowledge that can be useful, but the tone of your posts blocks it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Thank you to those who came to my support. Dealing with Emo fanboys is like dealing with a religious fundamentalist.

I am wondering. Why not make use of Emo's warranty? I thought it was 5 years, and your products haven't even been on the market that long, so clearly within the timeframe. Unless I'm wrong about the length.
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post #14163 of 16241
1/31/12 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

I just gotta ask. Why can't all your posts be like this one? I don't mean apologetic, rather the normal, everyday tone. I've read many of your posts here and at Emo, and you seem to get into a frenzy instantly, either positive or negative. You obviously have some knowledge that can be useful, but the tone of your posts blocks it.

While I don't disagree, I think this comment could be applied to about 90% of the people posting in this thread.

One winter’s evening whilst gathered round a blazing camp fire, an old Sioux Indian chief told his grandson about the inner struggle that goes on inside people.

“You see” said the old man, “this inner struggle is like two wolves fighting each other. One is evil, full of anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, deceit, false pride, superiority, and ego”.

“The other one,” he continued, poking the fire with a stick so that the fire crackled, sending the flames clawing at the night sky, “is good, full of joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith”.

For a few minutes his grandson pondered his grandfather’s words and then asked, “So which wolf wins, grandfather?”

“Well”, said the wise old chief, his lined face breaking into a wry smile, “The one you feed!”

People, please start feeding your other wolf, for all our sake.

I'll stick to the JBL thread where people are constructive.
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post #14164 of 16241
2/1/12 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

To be fair, some amount of hope for a decently performing XMC seems to be warranted. According to the spec sheet, their partner, MDS, looks to have some expertise in this particular area. This is in contrast to ToneWinner for whom the UMC was a new venture and appeared to lack sufficient expertise (apparently so did their Indian connection WRT programming) to develop a reliable product. Maybe M Code can offer some insight into the capabilities of MDS..

Not M Code, but having dealt with Jerry Purcell and MDS, I can tell you their firmware is solid (I only found one bug in it out of 2 dozen in the product). But their FW is limited to the core DSP functions of decoding and audio signal processing. All the support software for instructing the DSP what to do, and how that's handled thru the U/I, is totally up to others to do. And that is actually not a trivial task, either.

Aside from the Classe and Theta products using the MDS DAE-77 platform, we can add the Bryston SP3 which uses the sister version DAE-6D with the same dual TI DSPs.
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post #14165 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

I just gotta ask. Why can't all your posts be like this one? I don't mean apologetic, rather the normal, everyday tone. I've read many of your posts here and at Emo, and you seem to get into a frenzy instantly, either positive or negative. You obviously have some knowledge that can be useful, but the tone of your posts blocks it.


I am wondering. Why not make use of Emo's warranty? I thought it was 5 years, and your products haven't even been on the market that long, so clearly within the timeframe. Unless I'm wrong about the length.

I'm not using the warranty at this point for several reasons. One, I cannot move the amp, its too heavy. Second, I would be without it for a lengthy period which is very undesirable (I am a fan of Emo amps after all) and lastly I have a UPA-2 that was going unused. The five year warranty means there is no rush.

As Keith has pointed out to me, this is not an unusual problem these days with RCA jacks being weak in many products. I believe that it was soldered directly to the circuit board and this makes it vulnerable.
I've also thought of fixing it myself. Chances are the jack is soldered directly to the circuit board and I might be able to resolder it.
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post #14166 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

While I don't disagree, I think this comment could be applied to about 90% of the people posting in this thread. My god, it's like a kindergarten class with the teacher gone. I've just read the last several pages and the only members that had any decorum, restraint and provided truly useful comments was Roger Dressler and Chu Gai. The rest of you are babbling like a bunch of special kids at the petting zoo.

Well I guess we can add your post to one of the "babbling like a bunch of special kids at the petting zoo" posts. Of what value is your post? None that I can see other than to insult "special kids". Real classy if you ask me. Read back in this thread a few pages and you will see where it all went downhill. You will notice that it started with a few regulars from over at the Lounge.

Bill
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post #14167 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Well I guess we can add your post to one of the "babbling like a bunch of special kids at the petting zoo" posts. Of what value is your post? None that I can see other than to insult "special kids". Real classy if you ask me. Read back in this thread a few pages and you will see where it all went downhill. You will notice that it started with a few regulars from over at The Lounge.

Bill

My god, is 'special kids' the US equivalent of what we call in the UK 'special needs' kids? These are unfortunate children who, for whatever reason, need a little more care and encouragment than most. If I'm guessing right, it is quite disgraceful to belittle them in the way mikeronesia did in his valueless post. Hopefully he will apologise for the offence remarks like that cause.

It's always like this whenever there is an invasion from the Lounge. They get word over there that someone here has criticised some Emo product or other and they descend to defend their 'religion'. Then a slanging match breaks out for a few days and soon after the Loungers give up, mainly because they have little of real worth to contribute, and then the thread goes back to its proper purpose.
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post #14168 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner6 View Post


Nobody over at Emo denies that there were lots of issues with the UMC-1 (I don't own one). However, they did hopefully take actions with the ground up re-work on the XMC-1 (I plan to buy one, subject to the 30 day return) to avoid most or all of these. Yes, time will tell. Some here say they will enthusiastically endorse and maybe even buy the XMC-1 if it turns out to be a hit. Why not give it a chance and let it be released and used for a month before being negative about it now? Obviously constructive criticism is fine. To me small companies like Emotiva are the strength of our country and I'll give my money to them if I can versus the giants. I too have some reservations but I hope the XMC-1 is a huge success.

Ummmm yeah when the UMC was first released if anyone posted a bug with it or a preoblem Emotiva promptly would delete that post/thread. There were some many people being banned over there for posting their problems with the UMC it was ridiculous. But according to Lonnie and Dan everything was working as it was planned. How many FW revisions have there been? There were so many FUBAR'ed UMC's yet Dan was off picking up a new motor home and posting pictures of it instead of addressing the problems with the UMC. So yeah there are people over at Emotiva and their fanbois who are still in denial to this day that there was/is anything wrong with the UMC. Also your statement about small companies like Emotiva are the strength of this country hate to burst your bubble but everything they sell (AFAIK) IS MADE IN CHINA!
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post #14169 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner6 View Post

The destinction made here between fan and fan-boy in posts above is a hair picking stretch of semantics.

Not really. A few people have made the distinction quite clear. A fan is someone who likes the equipment generally but is not blind to problems and faults. A fan-boy is someone who is totally uncritical and cannot tolerate any negative comment at all, even when the facts clearly justify them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner6 View Post


One reason I don't come here often is my opinion that the crowd here is too loose with the name calling, condescending and derogatory posts.

That will be the "crowd" that descends periodically from the Lounge when they hear that someone has dared criticise their beloved UMC-1?
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post #14170 of 16241
2/1/12 at 3:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My god, is 'special kids' the US equivalent of what we call in the UK 'special needs' kids? These are unfortunate children who, for whatever reason, need a little more care and encouragment than most. If I'm guessing right, it is quite disgraceful to belittle them in the way mikeronesia did in his valueless post. Hopefully he will apologise for the offence remarks like that cause.

It's always like this whenever there is an invasion from the Lounge. They get word over there that someone here has criticised some Emo product or other and they descend to defend their 'religion'. Then a slanging match breaks out for a few days and soon after the Loungers give up, mainly because they have little of real worth to contribute, and then the thread goes back to its proper purpose.

Yes Keith they are also called special needs/mentally challenged here. So he basically said we are all mentally challenged and we eat poop
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post #14171 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My god, is 'special kids' the US equivalent of what we call in the UK 'special needs' kids? These are unfortunate children who, for whatever reason, need a little more care and encouragment than most. If I'm guessing right, it is quite disgraceful to belittle them in the way mikeronesia did in his valueless post. Hopefully he will apologise for the offence remarks like that cause...

He edited it about an hour ago to remove the insensitive remarks. Interesting isn't it?
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post #14172 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSDTrainer View Post

Yes Keith they are also called special needs/mentally challenged here. So he basically said we are all mentally challenged and we eat poop

I don't mind someone saying that to me - if that is the level of their debate, then it says all I need to know about them. But I really object to someone insulting the kids who find life challenging enough already without some insensitive person using their misfortune to try to score a point here. Quite out of order IMO.
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post #14173 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Not M Code, but having dealt with Jerry Purcell and MDS, I can tell you their firmware is solid (I only found one bug in it out of 2 dozen in the product). But their FW is limited to the core DSP functions of decoding and audio signal processing. All the support software for instructing the DSP what to do, and how that's handled thru the U/I, is totally up to others to do. And that is actually not a trivial task, either.

Aside from the Classe and Theta products using the MDS DAE-77 platform, we can add the Bryston SP3 which uses the sister version DAE-6D with the same dual TI DSPs.

So, Roger, WRT programming, do you know if any of this is handled domestically, or if it's generally outsourced and if so, what's the level of competency? From having read about the UMC, including Markus' posts and graphs about the way they implemented bass management, Emo's Indian connection did not come off as especially savvy. Emo itself did little to further its reputation as it released the updates to the public. Also, any idea just how many lines of code we're talking about. I know you say it's not trivial but I can't help to think that whatever programming language is being used has a limited command set.
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post #14174 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

He edited it about an hour ago to remove the insensitive remarks. Interesting isn't it?

Yes it is. Maybe it's too much to hope for an apology.
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post #14175 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

While I don't disagree, I think this comment could be applied to about 90% of the people posting in this thread.

One winter's evening whilst gathered round a blazing camp fire, an old Sioux Indian chief told his grandson about the inner struggle that goes on inside people.

You see said the old man, this inner struggle is like two wolves fighting each other. One is evil, full of anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, deceit, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other one, he continued, poking the fire with a stick so that the fire crackled, sending the flames clawing at the night sky, is good, full of joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.

For a few minutes his grandson pondered his grandfather's words and then asked, So which wolf wins, grandfather?

Well, said the wise old chief, his lined face breaking into a wry smile, The one you feed!

People, please start feeding your other wolf, for all our sake.

I'll stick to the JBL thread where people are constructive.

One winter's evening whilst gathered around a blazing campfire, the grandson asked the old Sioux Indian chief, how it was that he came up with the names for all the people in the tribe. The chief pointed to one of the braves walking and said when he was born, a group of deer had taken off and so he was given the name, Red Deer Running. Pointing to one of the women, he said she was born during the first snowfall and hence, he named her Snow Gently Falling. Turning to his grandson he then said, "Do you have any more questions, Two Dogs ******?"
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post #14176 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Theresa then don't buy those stupid monster RCAs that damage RCA jacks when they are removed. Canare/Taversoe Crimp RCA Plugs won't do that. Many many people have damaged RCA jacks with those horrible RCAs that are very difficult to remove. You blame Emotiva for those stupid RCAs?

GET REAL

PS a lot of big name manufacturers won't do FREE RMA work when the jacks are damaged because 90% of the time it's the USER that has damaged those jacks. Did Emo charge you for the repair?

I feel bad then, I damaged an RCA on my XPA-3 when I was plugging in a pair of $800 cables. My amps are on a solid wood stand, on the floor.

Theresa, my Parasound A51 amp will be here tomorrow. Our group will probably do a little fun time by checking out the following amps.
XPA-1
XPA-3 I have had the 3 and the 5, in my system for some time and they have the same signature.
XPA-5
Parasound A51
Maybe a couple of others. Like to stop by? Probably next weekend or so.
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post #14177 of 16241
2/1/12 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I feel bad then, I damaged an RCA on my XPA-3 when I was plugging in a pair of $800 cables. My amps are on a solid wood stand, on the floor.

Theresa, my Parasound A51 amp will be here tomorrow. Our group will probably do a little fun time by checking out the following amps.
XPA-1
XPA-3
XPA-5
Parasound A51
Maybe a couple of others. Like to stop by? Probably next weekend or so.

Thank you but no I don't think so, I'm having a lot of social anxiety at the moment but I'll check back.
It would be nice to hear a comparison what with the differences in those amps.
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post #14178 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Thank you but no I don't think so, I'm having a lot of social anxiety at the moment but I'll check back.
It would be nice to hear a comparison what with the differences in those amps.

I hope it will be a DBX test, level matched to 0.1dB.
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post #14179 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:04am
There is a group of us that like to compare our new toys. Lots of food, and pop. Nothing really scientific, but I have made a couple of purchases based on what I heard. It does give us an idea of what’s out there. Steve from sound video, helps out a lot with this.
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post #14180 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

There is a group of us that like to compare our new toys. Lots of food, and pop. Nothing really scientific, but I have made a couple of purchases based on what I heard. It does give us an idea of what's out there. Steve from sound video, helps out a lot with this.

You're right - nothing really scientific. And unless the tests are DBX and properly level-matched, nothing really useful in attempting to compare the sound of one amp against the sound of another.

But, I agree, a nice social event, so long as nobody tries to form a conclusion about the gear itself.
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post #14181 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You're right - nothing really scientific. And unless the tests are DBX and properly level-matched, nothing really useful in attempting to compare the sound of one amp against the sound of another.

But, I agree, a nice social event, so long as nobody tries to form a conclusion about the gear itself.

Very true, but as you say, a nice social event. I'd be more interested in the construction such a RCA jacks The Parasound likely has a much beefier power supply and output transistors. Not that this is necessarily audible except perhaps at prolonged high volumes or with very difficult to drive speakers. I have an XPA-3 and am very satisfied with its sound driving speakers that dip below 4 ohms.
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post #14182 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiky View Post

Ok, so which $500 AVR has anything even similar to the analog section of Emo's UMC? Everyone keeps saying it exists, please point me to an actual model number.

I'm reasonably sure my old $1500 Onkyo cannot match it in this area.

Google is your friend !
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post #14183 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Very true, but as you say, a nice social event. I'd be more interested in the construction such a RCA jacks The Parasound likely has a much beefier power supply and output transistors. Not that this is necessarily audible except perhaps at prolonged high volumes or with very difficult to drive speakers. I have an XPA-3 and am very satisfied with its sound driving speakers that dip below 4 ohms.

Yes, construction and aesthetics also have a part to play I agree. Some of the very expensive amps quite probably sound no better or even no different to the cheaper ones (so long as they are all working within their design parameters, not clipping etc) but some of them *look* stunning, and this could be a consideration for some. Pride of ownership can be important even when not reflected in performance. And good design is always, always expensive.

I have a fair bit of experience with very high end stereo amps, and a lot of them, while eye-wateringly expensive, don't necessarily have better construction quality than units that are a fraction of their price. IME. Some do, of course.
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post #14184 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

Google is your friend !

It would be nice to see a blind A/B/X test of pre-pro's to see if there are indeed differences and what they are especially when using a "direct" mode. I don't even use an analog input, not even when I was using the UMC-1. Someday I might get a turntable again and at least my Onkyo has a phono stage unlike the Emo.
Yes, aesthetics do matter. I perceive the Emotiva's bright blue lighting to be a negative, but one I can live with obviously.
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post #14185 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

He edited it about an hour ago to remove the insensitive remarks. Interesting isn't it?

It will not help much as his original post has been quoted several times. Clearly shows the mindset and immaturity of what he originally posted.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I feel bad then, I damaged an RCA on my XPA-3 when I was plugging in a pair of $800 cables. My amps are on a solid wood stand, on the floor.

Theresa, my Parasound A51 amp will be here tomorrow. Our group will probably do a little fun time by checking out the following amps.
XPA-1
XPA-3 I have had the 3 and the 5, in my system for some time and they have the same signature.
XPA-5
Parasound A51

Although it might not be a scientific comparison I would be interested in your thoughts of the A51 compared to the Emotiva amps. I owned the A52 and thought it was a great amp and well built for the most part. I did not care for the mini plug inputs for the 12v triggers though. Those pins are very fragile and I broke a tip of in the 12v input by accident. I currently own a Boston Acoustics A7200 (Sherwood A-965 clone). In my opinion the A7200 sounds as good as the much more expensive A52 does and has two extra channels.

http://www.onecall.com/product/Bosto...fier/_/R-26578

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_a965.html

Bill
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post #14186 of 16241
2/1/12 at 6:56am
Yes it does show his ignorance but changing it reflects well on him.
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post #14187 of 16241
2/1/12 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Separates may or may not be desirable. While it might be very useful to have a full set of data available in order to help with the decision, there are some fairly basic pointers that a user can use to help decide. For example, I had, at the time, fairly inefficient and fairly 'awkward' 4 ohm 'audiophile' speakers that took a lot of driving to get the best out of them. Although my (at the time) Onkyo 5007 was a fairly powerful AVR, it couldn't drive the speakers nearly as well as my Emotiva amps. Once the external amps went in, the sound became immediately much more satisfying. I suspect I may have been running the 5007s amps into mild clipping at high SPLs. While it would have been nice to see that clipping via measurements, it wasn't really necessary as my ears easily heard the improvement from the external amps. I also had much greater headroom with the external amps and that helps too of course.

I'm very much of the school that you can never have too much power - and the genuine 300 watts per channel (ACD) and 185 watts per channel (ACD) I get from my XPA-3 and UPA-2s respectively beats any AVR hands down.

I agree with you that sometimes people see external amps as a cure for a problem that doesn't exist and really, unless one has difficult, low impedance speakers, or needs very, very high SPLs, or is running their current unit into clipping, then often an external amps adds very little. Certainly one should address the real issues before just rushing out and adding external amps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You're right - nothing really scientific. And unless the tests are DBX and properly level-matched, nothing really useful in attempting to compare the sound of one amp against the sound of another.

But, I agree, a nice social event, so long as nobody tries to form a conclusion about the gear itself.

I am sure that you did all the proper testing before making your statement that is highlighted.
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post #14188 of 16241
2/1/12 at 7:25am
Emotiva's gain is high and that can give them the benefit of being louder if all amps aren't adjusted for the same volume. I too experienced the benefit of the XPA-3's power. I had been using a Yamaha DSPA-1 before I got Emotiva separates (having given up on separates for a while) and with it I experienced clipping. I have never heard my XPA-3 clip even with my 4 ohm 89db/1 "watt"/meter speakers. My center is 8 ohms and 86db/meter and have not experienced audible clipping from it either. Extra power sometimes does make a difference.
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post #14189 of 16241
2/1/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I am sure that you did all the proper testing before making your statement that is highlighted.

No. I don't have the facilities here to do it. But I wasn't trying to prove anything and I know that the speakers I used to have couldn't be properly handled by the Onkyo's internal amps. There was clear and obvious clipping at very high levels and that disappeared with the XPA-3.

The only way to properly compare amps is with DBX tests and very strict level matching.
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post #14190 of 16241
2/1/12 at 8:18am
All good points, I'll make sure my meter is out and being used. As for no one making decisions... far be it for me to tell people what they like and don't like.
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