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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 507

post #15181 of 17192
I had the umc along with the ref 12 sub, the auto on on the sub did not work, after several adjustments recommended by emotiva it still did not work, sent the sub back and got it replaced, same problem, then realised it was not a problem with the sub, but with the umc, switched a parasound c2 with the umc and the problem was solved. I am interested in the new emotiva prepro, but need assurance that this problem has been fixed, otherwise I will stay with the parasound.
post #15182 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzer View Post

I had the umc along with the ref 12 sub, the auto on on the sub did not work, after several adjustments recommended by emotiva it still did not work, sent the sub back and got it replaced, same problem, then realised it was not a problem with the sub, but with the umc, switched a parasound c2 with the umc and the problem was solved. I am interested in the new emotiva prepro, but need assurance that this problem has been fixed, otherwise I will stay with the parasound.

What did Emotiva say after you determined the UMC sub out was faulty?
Did you get it repaired?
That is not a common complaint.
post #15183 of 17192
emotiva told me several ways to solve the problem, including phase adjustments, ect, the way they worked with me on it , it seemed to be a common problem and at 1 time admitted ploblems with bass management, I give them credit for their response to the problem, I did not send the umc back, it now resides in my sons setup who does not use a sub, on another note, the parsound c2 just sounds better then the umc, overall I am very happy with emotiva, I think their ref 12 sub is a very good sub, I also own their xpr amp wich is outstanding, but their prepro's is another story.
post #15184 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzer View Post

emotiva told me several ways to solve the problem, including phase adjustments, ect, the way they worked with me on it , it seemed to be a common problem and at 1 time admitted ploblems with bass management, I give them credit for their response to the problem, I did not send the umc back, it now resides in my sons setup who does not use a sub, on another note, the parsound c2 just sounds better then the umc, overall I am very happy with emotiva, I think their ref 12 sub is a very good sub, I also own their xpr amp wich is outstanding, but their prepro's is another story.

OK, never noticed any complaints with this combo on the Emotiva forum.
This should have made news over there if it was wide spread.
The important thing is that you found something that works for you. biggrin.gif
post #15185 of 17192
anyone notice the big Emotiva splash on the AVS front page today?
UMC-200 front and center.
post #15186 of 17192
I hope the UMC-1s problems aren't present in this new unit. Such a low cost unit is certainly appealing to those seeking a no frills pre-pro. Personally I'd miss the features on my Onkyo PR-SC5508 and Denon AVR-4311CI.
post #15187 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I hope the UMC-1s problems aren't present in this new unit. Such a low cost unit is certainly appealing to those seeking a no frills pre-pro. Personally I'd miss the features on my Onkyo PR-SC5508 and Denon AVR-4311CI.

+1

Hopefully abandoning video processing completely and using the AD 7623 HDMI switching with Xpressview (DVDO is also using this class of switching in their new switch BTW just the 8x2 model) will take care of most if not all of the previous issues.
Only time will tell.

With the west coast dock strike over, we may start reading some reviews soon.
post #15188 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzer View Post

emotiva told me several ways to solve the problem, including phase adjustments, ect, the way they worked with me on it , it seemed to be a common problem and at 1 time admitted ploblems with bass management, I give them credit for their response to the problem, I did not send the umc back, it now resides in my sons setup who does not use a sub, on another note, the parsound c2 just sounds better then the umc, overall I am very happy with emotiva, I think their ref 12 sub is a very good sub, I also own their xpr amp wich is outstanding, but their prepro's is another story.

OK, never noticed any complaints with this combo on the Emotiva forum.
This should have made news over there if it was wide spread.
The important thing is that you found something that works for you. biggrin.gif

yea right... we all know emotiva encourages posting "this doesn't work right" on their forum...

the bass management issues of the umc aren't new news...
post #15189 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yea right... we all know emotiva encourages posting "this doesn't work right" on their forum...
the bass management issues of the umc aren't new news...

and wasn't that addressed in the last firmware update?

and what does issue postings on another forum have to do with AVS?

Are you looking forward to the UMC-200 having the same issues? ???

Careful with the answer. It will show up on the home page. wink.gif
Edited by bootman_head_fi - 12/6/12 at 9:09am
post #15190 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I hope the UMC-1s problems aren't present in this new unit. Such a low cost unit is certainly appealing to those seeking a no frills pre-pro. Personally I'd miss the features on my Onkyo PR-SC5508 and Denon AVR-4311CI.

I do as well as it would not be a good sign if the UMC-200 has issues. I'm measuring how well the UMC-200 does to how the XMC-1 will do. If the UMC-200 has issues then I would be concerned that the XMC-1 will as well. Hopefully both will be released with a minimal amount of issues.

Bill
post #15191 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

anyone notice the big Emotiva splash on the AVS front page today?
UMC-200 front and center.

felt like a slap in the face!!
post #15192 of 17192
I'm looking at a UMC-200/UPA-700 combo to replace a Marantz SR5006. I've been wanting to get into separates for a while, and I don't really use features like networking, bluetooth, etc. Would this be worthwhile, or are there better options?

Besides the 5006, here's what I have.

Energy speakers
RC-70
RC-LCR
RC-10 as heights
RC-R (soon)
SW-10.3 sub

Xbox, PS3, Mac Mini, DirecTV.
post #15193 of 17192
Anybody use this x-3 amp to fire the fronts? I have Polk Rti a9's and the matching c6 center and was thinking of getting this amp for my Christmas present. Currently I have an Onkyo tx nr 809 its about 140 wpc and am wondering how big of an improvement I might get with this addition.
post #15194 of 17192
I have a few amp questions before I decide to try out a XPA-5.

My fronts are rated at 200w, the rating of the XPA-5 but my center is only rated at 150 and my rears the same. Can I adjust each level of output otherwise when I approach the limit of the fronts I'd be over the centers.

This is strange question but will I get more wattage at lower volumes...I've always been of the understanding that a higher wattage amp can more easily and more cleanly deliver at lower volume levels which increases sound quality.

The XPA-5 is on sale right now for under $800 shipped for free, everything I read about it is great value for the money.

I had planned on sending back my Focal 814's because they seem to just lack in the upper end...its hard to explain, it feels like they are lacking oomph for the upper end. The quality is there, the power is not.

I want to see if an amp will help my situation. I've never been happy with the audio quality of my Yamaha RX-A1000 compared to my old RX-v2700, the lower wattage of the 1000 just did not seem to push things as hard as similar volume levels.

Rather than spend 2K replacing the AVR, everything else it does is fine, figured the amp would be a good intermediary fix, if nothing else tell me if its the AVR or my speakers I'm unhappy with.

I think the sale ends tomorrow so I'd want to order it tomorrow for arrival on Monday/Tuesday.
post #15195 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

I have a few amp questions before I decide to try out a XPA-5.
My fronts are rated at 200w, the rating of the XPA-5 but my center is only rated at 150 and my rears the same. Can I adjust each level of output otherwise when I approach the limit of the fronts I'd be over the centers.
This is strange question but will I get more wattage at lower volumes...I've always been of the understanding that a higher wattage amp can more easily and more cleanly deliver at lower volume levels which increases sound quality.
The XPA-5 is on sale right now for under $800 shipped for free, everything I read about it is great value for the money.
I had planned on sending back my Focal 814's because they seem to just lack in the upper end...its hard to explain, it feels like they are lacking oomph for the upper end. The quality is there, the power is not.
I want to see if an amp will help my situation. I've never been happy with the audio quality of my Yamaha RX-A1000 compared to my old RX-v2700, the lower wattage of the 1000 just did not seem to push things as hard as similar volume levels.
Rather than spend 2K replacing the AVR, everything else it does is fine, figured the amp would be a good intermediary fix, if nothing else tell me if its the AVR or my speakers I'm unhappy with.
I think the sale ends tomorrow so I'd want to order it tomorrow for arrival on Monday/Tuesday.

I am on the same boat can't make up my mind to pull the trigger to add to or replace my Adcom 555II to power my polk lsi series. I called today and was told the sale run till end of the year. Nor sure where did you hear sale end tmorrow.
post #15196 of 17192
There is no problem in using a 200 watt amp to drive speakers rated at 150 watts. What I am concerned about is that it is the high frequencies that are "insufficient" as its the lower frequencies that use most of the power. Perhaps it's your speakers?
post #15197 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

There is no problem in using a 200 watt amp to drive speakers rated at 150 watts. What I am concerned about is that it is the high frequencies that are "insufficient" as its the lower frequencies that use most of the power. Perhaps it's your speakers?

+1
Amps are not designed to be tone controls.
post #15198 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

I have a few amp questions before I decide to try out a XPA-5.

My fronts are rated at 200w, the rating of the XPA-5 but my center is only rated at 150 and my rears the same. Can I adjust each level of output otherwise when I approach the limit of the fronts I'd be over the centers.

 

 

Forget about the rating of the power handling of the speakers. For one thing, that rating is for continuous power. There is zero chance that you will put 200 watts continuously on normal music or movie content. Most speakers that get damaged do so from using underpowered amps with them, not overpowered, causing the amps to clip and delivering a horrible square wave to fry yourt tweeters. And in any event, the difference between 200 watts and 150 watts is minimal - about 1dB. 

 

Quote:
This is strange question but will I get more wattage at lower volumes...I've always been of the understanding that a higher wattage amp can more easily and more cleanly deliver at lower volume levels which increases sound quality.

 

 

It's a strange question :) You won't get more wattage at lower volumes but what you will be doing is ensuring the amp is running well within its capabilities and not clipping, which will have a beneficial effect on the SQ. Also, if it is a Class A/B amp, you may be running it in the more benign Class A if the volume level is low. So yes, it is likely to sound better the less strain it has to take.

 

Quote:
The XPA-5 is on sale right now for under $800 shipped for free, everything I read about it is great value for the money.

 

 

It is excellent value for money. I have the comparable XPA-3 (and three UPA-2s, now discontinued) and I love them all.

 

Quote:
I had planned on sending back my Focal 814's because they seem to just lack in the upper end...its hard to explain, it feels like they are lacking oomph for the upper end. The quality is there, the power is not.

 

 

I am not familiar with the speakers but maybe they are a little 'laid back' and you prefer a slightly more 'aggressive' approach, or a more transparent approach. You cannot compensate for the frequency response of the speakers by changing amps - this is called 'using the amp as a tone control' and is a Bad Idea. If your speakers' treble is too laid back for you, then you need to change the speakers not the amp. (If you have Audyssey, it will compensate for the laid back sound as best it can when it EQs the speakers to attempt to match the target curve.) Putting an XPA-3 in will not make the treble more obvious or more anything really as the XPA-3 has a tested and measured ruler flat frequency response right up to 20kHz.

 

Quote:
I want to see if an amp will help my situation. I've never been happy with the audio quality of my Yamaha RX-A1000 compared to my old RX-v2700, the lower wattage of the 1000 just did not seem to push things as hard as similar volume levels.

Rather than spend 2K replacing the AVR, everything else it does is fine, figured the amp would be a good intermediary fix, if nothing else tell me if its the AVR or my speakers I'm unhappy with.

I think the sale ends tomorrow so I'd want to order it tomorrow for arrival on Monday/Tuesday.

 

If your current AVR lacks sufficient power to drive your speakers properly, to the SPLs you want, or if the speakers are presenting a difficult load to the AVR's amps - ie 4 ohm or less at certain frequencies, then an XPA-3 will make a difference. If none of the former applies, the amp will not make an audible difference. When you say that the current amp "does not seem to push things as hard at similar volume levels" I wonder if you mean the sound lacked dynamics? To fully reveal the dynamics you need an amp with good 'headroom' - ie one that has plenty of reserves of power to cope with the 'loud bits' without strain. If your speakers are very inefficient, you may need a lot of power to make them sing and if so, then an XPA-3 may well be what you need. Conversely if the speakers are of average or better efficiency, the XPA-3 may well make no difference at all. Many people are of the view that inefficient speakers often do fail to sound dynamic, so bear that in mind.

 

I think, from carefully reading your post, and also trying to read between the lines, that what you may be unhappy with is your speakers. An amp change will not help there, unless the specific circumstances I mention in the paragraph above apply. 

post #15199 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

There is no problem in using a 200 watt amp to drive speakers rated at 150 watts. What I am concerned about is that it is the high frequencies that are "insufficient" as its the lower frequencies that use most of the power. Perhaps it's your speakers?

+1

post #15200 of 17192
I always found Focal titanium tweeters rather hot at the high end, sort of "sizzly" in fact. So my experience is the opposite of yours and this might indicate damaged or defective tweeters.
post #15201 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I always found Focal titanium tweeters rather hot at the high end, sort of "sizzly" in fact. So my experience is the opposite of yours and this might indicate damaged or defective tweeters.

 

TBH I struggled a little to understand what the OP was meaning when he said, wrt to the HF of his speakers that "the quality is there but the power is not". It does seem though that the problem lises with his speakers in some way, so a new amp is unlikely to be what he needs.

post #15202 of 17192
I more than struggled to understand, I never did figure out exactly what he meant. Must be a speaker problem.
post #15203 of 17192
OK...let me try to explain better.

First as I go through upgrades my plan was always to invest in a separate amp, so if the amp will/will not help does not matter since it was my plan all along.

I dont' want to turn this into a Focal thread since its off topic, I already posted in the other forum on it. The short of it is I thought the Focal's lacked high end, brightness, however you want to put it. I brought down my KEF IQ10's, placed them on top of the Focal's and did get more clarity or what my ear liked, my wife also felt the same way.

Finding 2 bad speakers I think would be difficult and I hear zero difference between the two.

Before the Focal's I had DefTech 7002's along with a Yamaha RX-V2600. I replaced it with an RX-A 1000 based off all the reading here about SPL vs wattage. Since putting in the RX-A, even on my DeTech's I felt the top end dropped off, and this was in our old house so it was a 1:1 comparison even after running YPAO.

The problem seems worse on the Focal's, maybe there is something wrong with the amp in the Yamaha, although it is 30 watts lower in power than my previous receiver.

Low volume listening on both the Deftech's and Focal's I think it muddy and not what I was used to. From the posts here it does sound like an amp, if it is power related, would help resolve some of that.

I have 20 days left to change out the Focal's, my plan was to buy an amp regardless of what kind of speakers, so buying an amp will let me confirm its either the AVR or the speaker since I still have my 7002's and can compare directly.

As far as a bad speaker rather than relying on my ear I'd really like to measure it. Everything I read is the Focal is a brighter speaker than the KEF's, measuring both and comparing both would be great for me at least to confirm what I am hearing.

Any software tools I can use to do that and how would I go about it? I have 3 very different speakers and think it would be a good comparison with the amp/without the amp.
post #15204 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

OK...let me try to explain better.

First as I go through upgrades my plan was always to invest in a separate amp, so if the amp will/will not help does not matter since it was my plan all along.

I dont' want to turn this into a Focal thread since its off topic, I already posted in the other forum on it. The short of it is I thought the Focal's lacked high end, brightness, however you want to put it. I brought down my KEF IQ10's, placed them on top of the Focal's and did get more clarity or what my ear liked, my wife also felt the same way.

Finding 2 bad speakers I think would be difficult and I hear zero difference between the two.

Before the Focal's I had DefTech 7002's along with a Yamaha RX-V2600. I replaced it with an RX-A 1000 based off all the reading here about SPL vs wattage. Since putting in the RX-A, even on my DeTech's I felt the top end dropped off, and this was in our old house so it was a 1:1 comparison even after running YPAO.

The problem seems worse on the Focal's, maybe there is something wrong with the amp in the Yamaha, although it is 30 watts lower in power than my previous receiver.

Low volume listening on both the Deftech's and Focal's I think it muddy and not what I was used to. From the posts here it does sound like an amp, if it is power related, would help resolve some of that.

I have 20 days left to change out the Focal's, my plan was to buy an amp regardless of what kind of speakers, so buying an amp will let me confirm its either the AVR or the speaker since I still have my 7002's and can compare directly.

As far as a bad speaker rather than relying on my ear I'd really like to measure it. Everything I read is the Focal is a brighter speaker than the KEF's, measuring both and comparing both would be great for me at least to confirm what I am hearing.

Any software tools I can use to do that and how would I go about it? I have 3 very different speakers and think it would be a good comparison with the amp/without the amp.

 

Is the upper frequency response of the Focals too 'dull'? Is that the problem? If it is, then you need different speakers that are more in line with your preferences. Changing amps won’t change the frequency response of your speakers (not if you choose a properly designed amp). 

 

Measuring the FR is a great idea and will tell you what is actually going on. You'd need something like REW or OmniMic for that (google them).

 

What is the sensitivity of the Focals? Are they 4ohm or 8ohm?  How far do you sit from them usually when listening?  How loud do you typically listen at? I assume your room is untreated? 

post #15205 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Is the upper frequency response of the Focals too 'dull'? Is that the problem? If it is, then you need different speakers that are more in line with your preferences. Changing amps won’t change the frequency response of your speakers (not if you choose a properly designed amp). 

Measuring the FR is a great idea and will tell you what is actually going on. You'd need something like REW or OmniMic for that (google them).

What is the sensitivity of the Focals? Are they 4ohm or 8ohm?  How far do you sit from them usually when listening?  How loud do you typically listen at? I assume your room is untreated? 

Here are the spec's on the speakers:

Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 50Hz - 28kHz
Low frequency point (- 6dB) 41Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 91.5dB
Nom. impedance 8 ohms
Minimum impedance (@25°C) 4.3 ohms @ 146Hz
RMS Power 130W
Max. power handling 200W
Crossover frequency 300Hz / 3000Hz

According to YPAO I'm 17' from the right and 22' from the left. That is when I had them spaced out farther. I moved the left in as it did not seem to make a sound difference and looked more in line with the room.

My preference for music is that the voice always comes out on top. Not for every style but we enjoy vocals. We prefer strong vocal performers and are looking for emotion in the transmittal of the sound, these seem to lack that. The tweeters sound muffled over the mid range. I even removed the grills to see if that made a difference. I've also played them 10 hours a day for 4 days straight with the Apple TV set on shuffle.

I played music off the Apple TV just to break them in but my listening for judging the speaker has been BD/DVD-A/SACD.

On the flip side the center channel when listening to BD is very strong, almost harsh on the vocals.

The room is totally untreated and I did download REW and I'm going to do some reading on it today and see what I get. If it is the room then I have an idea where the problem is, there is a 12' wide recess in the wall that goes back 5', the TV and all that sit back in that, the speakers are at the edge. It is another reason I bought the Focal's was the front porting vs rear.

The amp was the next step regardless of what speakers I end up with. I'm going to order one on Monday, if its not going to help its not going to help, but I had planned on one anyways and for an entry level sub $1000 amp I do not think I'll do any better.

After I do some room measurements, get the amp, etc it will still leave me a week to return them and go with another selection.
post #15206 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

Here are the spec's on the speakers:
Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 50Hz - 28kHz
Low frequency point (- 6dB) 41Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 91.5dB
Nom. impedance 8 ohms
Minimum impedance (@25°C) 4.3 ohms @ 146Hz
RMS Power 130W
Max. power handling 200W
Crossover frequency 300Hz / 3000Hz
According to YPAO I'm 17' from the right and 22' from the left. That is when I had them spaced out farther. I moved the left in as it did not seem to make a sound difference and looked more in line with the room.
My preference for music is that the voice always comes out on top. Not for every style but we enjoy vocals. We prefer strong vocal performers and are looking for emotion in the transmittal of the sound, these seem to lack that. The tweeters sound muffled over the mid range. I even removed the grills to see if that made a difference. I've also played them 10 hours a day for 4 days straight with the Apple TV set on shuffle.
I played music off the Apple TV just to break them in but my listening for judging the speaker has been BD/DVD-A/SACD.
On the flip side the center channel when listening to BD is very strong, almost harsh on the vocals.
The room is totally untreated and I did download REW and I'm going to do some reading on it today and see what I get. If it is the room then I have an idea where the problem is, there is a 12' wide recess in the wall that goes back 5', the TV and all that sit back in that, the speakers are at the edge. It is another reason I bought the Focal's was the front porting vs rear.
The amp was the next step regardless of what speakers I end up with. I'm going to order one on Monday, if its not going to help its not going to help, but I had planned on one anyways and for an entry level sub $1000 amp I do not think I'll do any better.
After I do some room measurements, get the amp, etc it will still leave me a week to return them and go with another selection.

I recently sold a pair of Focal 816V speakers. Specs are almost identical to the 814V. I have read where some find these to be bright. This confuses me unless they are in a glass room. I thought they were on the warm side. Keith can correct any misinformation that I give.smile.gif

I never found them to be lacking in clarity (especially vocals). They are a neutral speaker and neither vocals, instruments or other material jumps out of these speakers. I did not think them to be very dynamic. I think you are a candidate for a less neutral and more forward sounding speaker. I have a reserve of speakers. My favorite is the Klipsch K-4.

Now here is the sticky part. I used them with Denon 4310, 4311 and 2308. Yamaha RX-A3000 and UMC-1 / XPA5 combo.
These speakers never sparkled with any unit. Combined with the Yamaha the highs suffered. The Denons and Emo were a definite improvement. Let me hear it Keith, Bill and Teresa.smile.gif

I think you may like Dynaudo (a highly praised speaker that I find to be almost bright), Monitor Audio, Paradigm or others.

Second thoughts. I also had the CC800 center and it was almost seamless. Not harsh as you describe.
Are you running speakers as large or small. What cross over setting.
Edited by MUDCAT45 - 12/8/12 at 12:10pm
post #15207 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Is the upper frequency response of the Focals too 'dull'? Is that the problem? If it is, then you need different speakers that are more in line with your preferences. Changing amps won’t change the frequency response of your speakers (not if you choose a properly designed amp). 

Measuring the FR is a great idea and will tell you what is actually going on. You'd need something like REW or OmniMic for that (google them).

What is the sensitivity of the Focals? Are they 4ohm or 8ohm?  How far do you sit from them usually when listening?  How loud do you typically listen at? I assume your room is untreated? 

Here are the spec's on the speakers:

Frequency response (+/- 3dB) 50Hz - 28kHz
Low frequency point (- 6dB) 41Hz
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 91.5dB
Nom. impedance 8 ohms
Minimum impedance (@25°C) 4.3 ohms @ 146Hz
RMS Power 130W
Max. power handling 200W
Crossover frequency 300Hz / 3000Hz

According to YPAO I'm 17' from the right and 22' from the left. That is when I had them spaced out farther. I moved the left in as it did not seem to make a sound difference and looked more in line with the room.

My preference for music is that the voice always comes out on top. Not for every style but we enjoy vocals. We prefer strong vocal performers and are looking for emotion in the transmittal of the sound, these seem to lack that. The tweeters sound muffled over the mid range. I even removed the grills to see if that made a difference. I've also played them 10 hours a day for 4 days straight with the Apple TV set on shuffle.

I played music off the Apple TV just to break them in but my listening for judging the speaker has been BD/DVD-A/SACD.

On the flip side the center channel when listening to BD is very strong, almost harsh on the vocals.

The room is totally untreated and I did download REW and I'm going to do some reading on it today and see what I get. If it is the room then I have an idea where the problem is, there is a 12' wide recess in the wall that goes back 5', the TV and all that sit back in that, the speakers are at the edge. It is another reason I bought the Focal's was the front porting vs rear.

The amp was the next step regardless of what speakers I end up with. I'm going to order one on Monday, if its not going to help its not going to help, but I had planned on one anyways and for an entry level sub $1000 amp I do not think I'll do any better.

After I do some room measurements, get the amp, etc it will still leave me a week to return them and go with another selection.

 

OK - that is good info - thanks for that. Your room isn't helping, and you are sitting a long way from the speakers, so you will need  fair bit of amp power, even though they are pretty sensitive and 8 ohms nominally. I still doubt if another amp will solve the problem as it doesn't seem to me to related to a lack of power. HST, if you were going to buy an amp anyway it can’t do any harm, and the Emo amp is a good one. Usually a lack of amp power will manifest itself as extremely harsh distortion caused by driving the amp into, or to the edge of, clipping.

 

Before you try anything else, I wonder if you can temporarily relocate the speakers into a more benign position in the room? And sit closer to them - say 12 feet or even less. This will at least give you an indication of what effect the placement is having on the FR.

 

Theresa, and others, have said that the Focal usually sound on the bright side rather then the dull or recessed side, so what you are hearing is odd. Your speaker cable is a decent gauge I assume?  If you are able to temporarily relocate the speakers, report back and we’ll see if we can get any further with it.

post #15208 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I recently sold a pair of Focal 816V speakers. Specs are almost identical to the 814V. I have read where some find these to be bright. This confuses me unless they are in a glass room. I thought they were on the warm side. Keith can correct any misinformation that I give.smile.gif

 

 

Not me Mudcat - I am not in the least familiar with Focal speakers and can only go on what you and others have said - most of which points to them being a little bright if anything, which makes what Eric is hearing odd to say the least. You found them to be a little 'warm' which is a term I’d normally associate with mid-range performance rather than upper treble, but it shows that different people hear different things and have different preferences.

 

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I never found them to be lacking in clarity (especially vocals). They are a neutral speaker and neither vocals, instruments or other material jumps out of these speakers. I did not think them to be very dynamic. I think you are a candidate for a less neutral and more forward sounding speaker. I have a reserve of speakers. My favorite is the Klipsch K-4.

 

 

You could well be right - if Eric's preference is for a more forward sound, then something a little more forward and a little more dynamic might suit him better.

 

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Now here is the sticky part. I used them with Denon 4310, 4311 and 2308. Yamaha RX-A3000 and UMC-1 / XPA5 combo.
These speakers never sparkled with any unit. Combined with the Yamaha the highs suffered. The Denons and Emo were a definite improvement. Let me hear it Keith, Bill and Teresa.smile.gif

 

I am keeping schtum :)  You heard what you heard and, short of being there with you, I can't know what that was. I'm not a massive believer in 'combinations' sounding terribly different, but it can happen with speakers/amps I guess.

 

 

 

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I think you may like Dynaudo (a highly praised speaker that I find to be almost bright), Monitor Audio, Paradigm or others.

Second thoughts. I also had the CC800 center and it was almost seamless. Not harsh as you describe.
Are you running speakers as large or small. What cross over setting.

 

Yes, good supplementaries there - in addition, I'll ask Eric if he has tried it with the Yamaha room correction on and off, and if it made any difference?

post #15209 of 17192
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post



Yes, good supplementaries there - in addition, I'll ask Eric if he has tried it with the Yamaha room correction on and off, and if it made any difference?

WTF needs room correction?smile.gif
post #15210 of 17192
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

OK - that is good info - thanks for that. Your room isn't helping, and you are sitting a long way from the speakers, so you will need  fair bit of amp power, even though they are pretty sensitive and 8 ohms nominally. I still doubt if another amp will solve the problem as it doesn't seem to me to related to a lack of power. HST, if you were going to buy an amp anyway it can’t do any harm, and the Emo amp is a good one. Usually a lack of amp power will manifest itself as extremely harsh distortion caused by driving the amp into, or to the edge of, clipping.

Before you try anything else, I wonder if you can temporarily relocate the speakers into a more benign position in the room? And sit closer to them - say 12 feet or even less. This will at least give you an indication of what effect the placement is having on the FR.

Theresa, and others, have said that the Focal usually sound on the bright side rather then the dull or recessed side, so what you are hearing is odd. Your speaker cable is a decent gauge I assume?  If you are able to temporarily relocate the speakers, report back and we’ll see if we can get any further with it.

Speaker wire I believe is either 12 or 14 gauge from Monoprice.

I could move the speakers forward.

Here is the room the day after we moved in, but close enough, there are some more things in the room, blinds, tables, etc but the speakers are siting just outside of the cubby in the rear of the room. Moving closer is not really an option as you will see:







I'll have to take some more pics today with how I have it laid out.
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