or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 522

post #15631 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am not familiar with the 818, but my older Onkyo 5007 had this weird sort of trigger arrangement. The only way to get it work the way you want it to work was like this (you do need a programmable remote though, like my Harmony):


 
Zone 2 trigger to activate a power amp
 
What I did was:
1. Teach the Harmony one the command to turn on and off Zone 2.
a. In the Harmony control program, go to the devices tab, select the receiver and click the "learn IR" button.
b. Go down to the list and in the "Learn New Command" box enter the name you want for Zone2ON and click the "learn" button.
c. Follow the program instructions and on the original receiver remote, press the Zone button once (it turns red) and then press the ON button. The Harmony should have now acknowledged the key press and learned the command.
d. Back in the learn page, enter the name for Zone2OFF and click "learn".
e. Without pressing anything else, press the STANDBY button on the original remote. Another command learned.
 
2. Now teach the Harmony remote that the receiver needs further commands to turn on and off:
a. Go back to the devices screen in the Harmony control program and click on the "Settings" button for the receiver.
b. Select "adjust power settings" from the list and click next.
c. Go to the "Which command will Power On your device?" and select "My device needs more than one command to turn it on and off."
d. Select Zone2ON as the second command needed.
e. Do the same for "Which command will Power Off your device?" now selecting Zone2OFF as second power off command.
 
3. Update your remote. Connect the trigger to your power amp, make necessary adjustments. And you're all set!
========================
 
On the Onkyo remote, you first have to hit the Zone2/3 button on the top of the remote to get into Zone2/3 mode - if the Zone button turns Red, then you're in Zone 2 mode. Hit the Zone button again and it turns Green, meaning you're in Zone 3. Keep in mind that the Zone button remembers what Zone it's been set to before (so pressing it once may turn it Green, for instance).
 
Now, once you set the particular zone using the above instructions, you can press ON, and if you're in Zone 2 (Red), Zone 2 will turn on. Same idea to turn Zone 2 Off- press STANDBY while Zone 2 is Red. That particular Zone's 12V trigger fires too.
 
I memorized these IR commands with my Harmony 1100. The key to all this is that the Zone button does not send an IR command, it only sets the following button presses to operate in that Zone. So to memorize (for instance) "Zone2On" IR command in the Harmony, you must first press the Zone button until it lights Red, then press ON. The Harmony will memorize that ON as being for Zone 2. Do the same thing for "Zone2Off" and Zone3 if you want.
 
================================

Thanks for the reply.

This issue isn't with setting up remote to work properly, it's that the 12v trigger on the NR818 won't trigger the LPA-1 to turn on in general.. I can push the sequence on the remote (or receiver front) with the cable plugged in and Z2 will turn on with no corresponding amp turning on. While the Z2 is still on, I can unplug that cable and a volt meter will show 12.4-12.6v being put out. I spliced the same mono cable and if I plug that in to the amp, a 9v battery will trigger the amp on...
post #15632 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Outlaw 7500: 200 WPC THD .03% (class a/b)
Sunfire 7400: 400 WPC THD .5% (class h)

- Rich

So how did that published spec change when you plugged the Outlaw amp into the furman unit?
And if it didn't why did it sound different? confused.gif

This all leads back to your statement about THD. smile.gif
post #15633 of 17194

What do you think of the http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-1l

 

Is it any good? Also how high will it stay in Class A.

 

http://shop.emotiva.com/cart


Edited by wse - 3/18/13 at 4:48pm
post #15634 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

What do you think of the http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-1l

Is it any good? Also how high will it stay in Class A.

35 watts/channel in Class A before it switched to Class A/B. There is a problem with these amps though. They are automatically dropping out of Class A even when they aren't drawing power. I think Emotiva has stopped selling them and is probably in the process of having the ones already shipped recalled. The pre-production units aren't affected, so it is suspected that the manufacturer changed something in the design.
post #15635 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

So how did that published spec change when you plugged the Outlaw amp into the furman unit?
And if it didn't why did it sound different? confused.gif

This all leads back to your statement about THD. smile.gif

Are you asking where they buried the survivors wink.gif

My conclusion is that the Furman was limiting current since both amps sounded better plugged into the wall.
The Outlaw sounded better than the Sunfire driving my Revels.
I can only guess why. Perhaps it is THD, compression, speed, or some combination.

It seems reasonable to me that two distinct classes of amplifier can sound different.
Whereas, two comparable class A/B are more likely to sound alike.


- Rich
post #15636 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post35 watts/channel in Class A before it switched to Class A/B. There is a problem with these amps though. They are automatically dropping out of Class A even when they aren't drawing power. I think Emotiva has stopped selling them and is probably in the process of having the ones already shipped recalled. The pre-production units aren't affected, so it is suspected that the manufacturer changed something in the design.

Really, you can still order them!

 

http://shop.emotiva.com/cart

post #15637 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

35 watts/channel in Class A before it switched to Class A/B. There is a problem with these amps though. They are automatically dropping out of Class A even when they aren't drawing power. I think Emotiva has stopped selling them and is probably in the process of having the ones already shipped recalled. The pre-production units aren't affected, so it is suspected that the manufacturer changed something in the design.

That doesn't sound good.
However, if they could idle in A/B mode, that would be a nice feature.
I am not sure if that is doable.

Auto-off might be nice too.

- Rich
post #15638 of 17194
The below is from post #766 on page 39 of this thread over at the Emotiva Lounge.

Just got the official email about the delay in shipment of the amps. The glitch has been confirmed.

I'm starting to wonder if Emotiva does much in the way of testing of new products before they are released. I'm speaking from experience as I bought both the USP-1 and the UMC-1 when they were first released. Both units had issues that would have easily been found if any form of beta testing was done.

Bill
post #15639 of 17194
I have my doubts on how much testing is done past prototypes, especially with reference the the UMC-200, which seems to have easy-to-spot problems.

Im sure they're not employing anyone beyond a work-experience kid who hasnt even seen the products, to write their user manuals.
post #15640 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post

I have my doubts on how much testing is done past prototypes, especially with reference the the UMC-200, which seems to have easy-to-spot problems.

Im sure they're not employing anyone beyond a work-experience kid who hasnt even seen the products, to write their user manuals.

Unfortunately the owners manuals for their prepros are still very poor. But I'm still holding out hope that the XMC-1 will be released and that it will be a great unit. It really is too bad as Emotiva just continues to have issues like this.

Bill
post #15641 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Unfortunately the owners manuals for their prepros are still very poor. But I'm still holding out hope that the XMC-1 will be released and that it will be a great unit. It really is too bad as Emotiva just continues to have issues like this.

Bill

Yeah, I have a UMC-200, and tbh, i'd be embarrassed as a company to be putting up that garbage as a user manual. And yep, hopefully theres lessons being learned with each incremental f-up.
post #15642 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Unfortunately the owners manuals for their prepros are still very poor. But I'm still holding out hope that the XMC-1 will be released and that it will be a great unit. It really is too bad as Emotiva just continues to have issues like this.

Bill

I read the end of that thread.
Multiple users have encountered the problem.
It sounds like a relay cutting in at high temperature.
However, Emotiva claims there is no such relay.

This is puzzling.
However, I think that the Class-A feature is not that important because Class A/B amps are very good.
If that is the case, then

1) this is still a nice mono-block
2) you can buy other A/B designs and save energy and reduce heat related issues smile.gif

- Rich
post #15643 of 17194
"Hi Guys, Thanks for the feedback. This will be the first thing we look into on Monday. We will not ship anymore of these units until we fully understand what is happening.
Whatever it is, I'm sure it's a minor issue and we'll get it cleared up quickly. It might be as simple as a bias adjustment from the factory.
 
If you already have a unit and it needs to be corrected, we'll send replacements for you with call tags and you can return your units after you receive the new ones, if this turns out to be the way we need to proceed.  Sorry for the inconvenience. We'll fix it. We're Emotiva, by golly!! Happy St. Patty's Day!!
 
And on a personal note, God bless our dear Uncle Terry; we'll have a shot for you tonight in your memory. 

Peace out,
Big Dan

 

Dan Laufman
President
Emotiva Audio Corporation

 

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=25855&page=37

=========

 

"A good solid customer service response. 
A few things they did not do:
1. Instantly accuse the customer of making it up. 
2. Claim the unit was perfect, blame customer.
3. Just delete the class A claim in the specs. the amp woulld still be the cheapest fully balanced 500 watt @4 ohm monoblcok

What they did: 
1. Investigated the issue reported only in detail by a single customer ( could have just been an individual flaw). 
2. PAID CASH on those freight and returns! They put money where their mouth is."

 

Emotiva seems to be taking care of their customers


Edited by wse - 3/18/13 at 9:44pm
post #15644 of 17194
They did show excellent customer service on this issue and quickly responded.
Can't really find any fault in that.
post #15645 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


It seems reasonable to me that two distinct classes of amplifier can sound different.
Whereas, two comparable class A/B are more likely to sound alike.


- Rich

I'm with you 100% there. smile.gif
post #15646 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post

I have my doubts on how much testing is done past prototypes, especially with reference the the UMC-200, which seems to have easy-to-spot problems.

Im sure they're not employing anyone beyond a work-experience kid who hasnt even seen the products, to write their user manuals.

What issues are you having? (if you are willing to discuss)
post #15647 of 17194

Ir's no longer available!

post #15648 of 17194
Strange, the UMC-200 is been discounted out of context ($699 -> $599). Is it already a product of the past ?
post #15649 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadwick537 View Post


Thanks for the reply.

This issue isn't with setting up remote to work properly, it's that the 12v trigger on the NR818 won't trigger the LPA-1 to turn on in general.. I can push the sequence on the remote (or receiver front) with the cable plugged in and Z2 will turn on with no corresponding amp turning on. While the Z2 is still on, I can unplug that cable and a volt meter will show 12.4-12.6v being put out. I spliced the same mono cable and if I plug that in to the amp, a 9v battery will trigger the amp on...

Not much to offer other than... I do trigger on an XPA-3 with the Onkyo 818 Zone 2 trigger. Works great, however I had trouble triggering the same XPA-3 with an older Marantz unit.
post #15650 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

Strange, the UMC-200 is been discounted out of context ($699 -> $599). Is it already a product of the past ?

No. I think that was in reaction to the competition from Outlaw.

- Rich
post #15651 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Emotiva seems to be taking care of their customers

Emotiva definitely has good service. But if the XPA-1L amps were tested properly before being sold the amount of customer service would be greatly reduced. I see no other alternative other than for Emotiva to admit that there is an issue with XPA-1L amps.

Bill
post #15652 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadwick537 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am not familiar with the 818, but my older Onkyo 5007 had this weird sort of trigger arrangement. The only way to get it work the way you want it to work was like this (you do need a programmable remote though, like my Harmony):


 
Zone 2 trigger to activate a power amp
 
What I did was:
1. Teach the Harmony one the command to turn on and off Zone 2.
a. In the Harmony control program, go to the devices tab, select the receiver and click the "learn IR" button.
b. Go down to the list and in the "Learn New Command" box enter the name you want for Zone2ON and click the "learn" button.
c. Follow the program instructions and on the original receiver remote, press the Zone button once (it turns red) and then press the ON button. The Harmony should have now acknowledged the key press and learned the command.
d. Back in the learn page, enter the name for Zone2OFF and click "learn".
e. Without pressing anything else, press the STANDBY button on the original remote. Another command learned.
 
2. Now teach the Harmony remote that the receiver needs further commands to turn on and off:
a. Go back to the devices screen in the Harmony control program and click on the "Settings" button for the receiver.
b. Select "adjust power settings" from the list and click next.
c. Go to the "Which command will Power On your device?" and select "My device needs more than one command to turn it on and off."
d. Select Zone2ON as the second command needed.
e. Do the same for "Which command will Power Off your device?" now selecting Zone2OFF as second power off command.
 
3. Update your remote. Connect the trigger to your power amp, make necessary adjustments. And you're all set!
========================
 
On the Onkyo remote, you first have to hit the Zone2/3 button on the top of the remote to get into Zone2/3 mode - if the Zone button turns Red, then you're in Zone 2 mode. Hit the Zone button again and it turns Green, meaning you're in Zone 3. Keep in mind that the Zone button remembers what Zone it's been set to before (so pressing it once may turn it Green, for instance).
 
Now, once you set the particular zone using the above instructions, you can press ON, and if you're in Zone 2 (Red), Zone 2 will turn on. Same idea to turn Zone 2 Off- press STANDBY while Zone 2 is Red. That particular Zone's 12V trigger fires too.
 
I memorized these IR commands with my Harmony 1100. The key to all this is that the Zone button does not send an IR command, it only sets the following button presses to operate in that Zone. So to memorize (for instance) "Zone2On" IR command in the Harmony, you must first press the Zone button until it lights Red, then press ON. The Harmony will memorize that ON as being for Zone 2. Do the same thing for "Zone2Off" and Zone3 if you want.
 
================================

Thanks for the reply.

This issue isn't with setting up remote to work properly, it's that the 12v trigger on the NR818 won't trigger the LPA-1 to turn on in general.. I can push the sequence on the remote (or receiver front) with the cable plugged in and Z2 will turn on with no corresponding amp turning on. While the Z2 is still on, I can unplug that cable and a volt meter will show 12.4-12.6v being put out. I spliced the same mono cable and if I plug that in to the amp, a 9v battery will trigger the amp on...

 

Yes I understand that. The 12v trigger on the 5007 didn't trigger anything to turn on either, if you are in Zone 1 mode. It only worked for Zones 2 and 3. It seems that Onkyo have strange ideas about what people want from 12v triggers - that doesn't exclude the possibility of course that your unit is simply broken.

post #15653 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Emotiva seems to be taking care of their customers

Emotiva definitely has good service. But if the XPA-1L amps were tested properly before being sold the amount of customer service would be greatly reduced. I see no other alternative other than for Emotiva to admit that there is an issue with XPA-1L amps.

Bill

 

Agreed, Bill. If Emotiva are having trouble with amplifiers now, then they really are having trouble!  I have always understood that their well-documented problems with pre-pros were because pre-pros are essentially computers and as such are subject to great complexity with the attendant possibility of errors coming to the surface after the product has been released into the wild (as frequently happens with software and OSs for example). But amps are simple devices and have changed little in decades so their issues, if any, are well understood and even the most rudimentary pre-release testing should bring to light any problems. That this appears not to have happened in the case of the XPA-1L tends to support the theory that that pre-release testing was either not undertaken or was cursory.

 

If the problem was not evident in pre-production samples, but is appearing in all production samples, then it may indicate that the manufacturer has changed the specification somewhere along the line during production. I think that this is not unknown when the manufacturing is done in China. Of course, a company manufacturing in China should be aware of any such possibility and take steps to ensure it does not happen. Take Apple, for example, who have a huge team of their own people based in China, presumably to ensure that corners are not quietly cut when the 'cat is away'. 

 

I hope the problem is resolved swiftly and that existing buyers are taken care of properly (as seems to be the case from the reports on the Emotiva forum). Meanwhile, I am happy to report that all four of my Emotiva amps are in daily use and working perfectly (knock on wood).

post #15654 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

What issues are you having? (if you are willing to discuss)

Nothing overly serious. I have one of the "triggers the amps twice" issues on startup, so I just unplugged the trigger and switch on and off manually, as I wasnt a fan of flickering the power to the amps, even though assured it wont harm them.

With a WDTV Live, if I dont turn that on first, then switch to that input, it wont lock on properly, and has a green screen. When I do turn it on, and change to that input, it takes a long time to lock on, but does so correctly. Similarly, the XE-1 HD DVD player takes a long time to lock on, but does so correctly regardless of whether swtiched on first.

The length of time to lock on to HDMI is certainly no quicker than my previous Denon, and was a little disappointing given the song and dance about 'lightning fast' lockon. Its not a huge issue, as its a projector setup, so I typically only turn the thing on to do 1 thing, i.e. watch a blu-ray, or a HD DVD, or stream.

And then theres the speaker trims tab, which is unchanged (i,e. 0) after emoq calibration, although emoq has changed speaker trims. Does the trims tab over-ride the emoq ones? If wanting to adjust a trim, should I use the speaker trims tab, or the emoq one?

And there is absolutely no explanation of the Parametric EQ feature, which is arguably the most powerful one (given time and equipment and knowledge).
post #15655 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View PostEmotiva definitely has good service. But if the XPA-1L amps were tested properly before being sold the amount of customer service would be greatly reduced. I see no other alternative other than for Emotiva to admit that there is an issue with XPA-1L amps. Bill

Poor QA & QC unfortunately they should have tested them before shipping them and discovered the problem! At least they are not trying to say no that the customer is wrong, they are dealing with it :)

post #15656 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View PostEmotiva definitely has good service. But if the XPA-1L amps were tested properly before being sold the amount of customer service would be greatly reduced. I see no other alternative other than for Emotiva to admit that there is an issue with XPA-1L amps. Bill

Poor QA & QC unfortunately they should have tested them before shipping them and discovered the problem! At least they are not trying to say no that the customer is wrong, they are dealing with it :)

 

It is commendable that they are dealing with the problem and attempting to satisfy those who have already bought the units. But, really, they had little choice. I know that most of their sales will be to the USA but there are some of us out here in the rest of the world who have bought Emo products* and, for us, to return a faulty unit isn’t a matter of inconvenience but a nightmare. I hope that few of their sales have been overseas so far and that they are able to reassure us that QC is very high on their future priorities list.

 

* I have had, over a period of years, 11 Emotiva products in all and I have never had a single problem with any of them. I hope that this consistency continues into the future for Emo. The AV world needs companies like Emo IMO, bringing high quality gear to enthusiasts who do not have infinite budgets.

post #15657 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View PostIt is commendable that they are dealing with the problem and attempting to satisfy those who have already bought the units. But, really, they had little choice. I know that most of their sales will be to the USA but there are some of us out here in the rest of the world who have bought Emo products* and, for us, to return a faulty unit isn’t a matter of inconvenience but a nightmare. I hope that few of their sales have been overseas so far and that they are able to reassure us that QC is very high on their future priorities list.

 

* I have had, over a period of years, 11 Emotiva products in all and I have never had a single problem with any of them. I hope that this consistency continues into the future for Emo. The AV world needs companies like Emo IMO, bringing high quality gear to enthusiasts who do not have infinite budgets.

They pay for shipping returns :) When they have a problem!

 

I didn't know they had been selling for 11 years!

post #15658 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post

And there is absolutely no explanation of the Parametric EQ feature, which is arguably the most powerful one (given time and equipment and knowledge).

Is it true that the PEQ feature isn't available for all speakers?
post #15659 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post

And there is absolutely no explanation of the Parametric EQ feature, which is arguably the most powerful one (given time and equipment and knowledge).

Is it true that the PEQ feature isn't available for all speakers?

No idea. Haven't had close look. There is the kerfuffal about it not having as many bands for the sub as other channels, but the argument is there that it doesn't need it, or something like that. I haven't read anything like you describe though.
post #15660 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post

There is the kerfuffal about it not having as many bands for the sub as other channels, but the argument is there that it doesn't need it

I'd think the listening room decides how many bands are needed, not Emotiva smile.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY]