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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 536

post #16051 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

I like a paper manual myself, but the last Emotiva product I purchased didn't even include one.
If I wanted a copy i had to print it out myself.
I didn't even bother.

...and this has nothing to do with SQ. I think the Emotiva products sound great.
Just wish their manuals also had similar high standards.
It can be done if they think it is important enough to do so and I think that is the real question here.
(well it is to me and this is what I don't get)

Just look at some Outlaw manuals to compare.

Boot,

I agree in that I much prefer to have a paper manual than have to print one out as well. Some that do not have the latest computers (programs) might have trouble accessing online manuals. Then if one does not have a printer then they can not print the manual. You make a very good point about Outlaw and their manuals. Outlaw even went to great lengths to improve the manuals of the Velodyne SMS-1 and the Onkyo 886. They did this as at the time they were selling both products. So it is amazing that Outlaw made the effort to improve the manuals of products that did not even produce. I just tried to download the online manual of the 975 and it will not load (see above wink.gif). If I recall is the 975's manual isn't that detailed. Has Outlaw updated the manual? Or does the 975 come with a more detailed printed manual?

Bill
post #16052 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

The Sherbourn manuals are just as bad.rolleyes.gif

All AVR manufacturers could improve their manuals.

 

I've always found the Onkyo manuals to be pretty good. They are dense reading but that is because their products are very complex usually - but I have always found all the answers in the various Onkyo manuals I have had.

post #16053 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I've always found the Onkyo manuals to be pretty good. They are dense reading but that is because their products are very complex usually - but I have always found all the answers in the various Onkyo manuals I have had.

Keith,

The Onkyo manuals were find for me and for the most part were very helpful as well. The 4311's manual is pretty much the same but it took time to get used to "Denonese" as I was very comfortable with the Onkyo manuals. The one feature I like about the 4311's manual is the alphabetical index on page 140-141. It makes looking for a specific function or feature easier than searching through the entire manual smile.gif.

Bill
post #16054 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Boot,

I agree in that I much prefer to have a paper manual than have to print one out as well. Some that do not have the latest computers (programs) might have trouble accessing online manuals. Then if one does not have a printer then they can not print the manual. You make a very good point about Outlaw and their manuals. Outlaw even went to great lengths to improve the manuals of the Velodyne SMS-1 and the Onkyo 886. They did this as at the time they were selling both products. So it is amazing that Outlaw made the effort to improve the manuals of products that did not even produce. I just tried to download the online manual of the 975 and it will not load (see above wink.gif). If I recall is the 975's manual isn't that detailed. Has Outlaw updated the manual? Or does the 975 come with a more detailed printed manual?

Bill

They have two versions to download (the only difference is page layout formatting).

I had no issues with viewing using Chrome. (but i get your point)

When i owned the SMS-1 I actually used the Outlaw manual to set it up.
(even though I bought it second hand elsewhere)
That was excellent work by them.
post #16055 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

They have two versions to download (the only difference is page layout formatting).

I had no issues with viewing using Chrome. (but i get your point)

When i owned the SMS-1 I actually used the Outlaw manual to set it up.
(even though I bought it second hand elsewhere)
That was excellent work by them.

I guess I should update my ancient HP laptop wink.gif. I also used the Outlaw SMS-1 and 886 manuals. It clearly shows that a small online A/V company like Outlaw can produce excellent user manuals. I would think Emotiva would see this and all the negative discussion about their manuals. With that one would think they would make a serious effort to equal what their rival company is doing.

Bill
post #16056 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I guess I should update my ancient HP laptop wink.gif. I also used the Outlaw SMS-1 and 886 manuals. It clearly shows that a small online A/V company like Outlaw can produce excellent user manuals. I would think Emotiva would see this and all the negative discussion about their manuals. With that one would think they would make a serious effort to equal what their rival company is doing.

Bill

I have made more than my share of criticism towards their manuals at the lounge.
Honestly it is my only real gripe against them.
post #16057 of 17192
And so.....Bills endless critism of Emotiva continues. It don't really matter but it's got to make ya wonder WHY, do you have such a hard for Emotiva, really, it's just absurd at this point. Talk about obcession, it's like something on the news or something.Take a break dude and enjoy something.
post #16058 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

And so.....Bills endless critism of Emotiva continues. It don't really matter but it's got to make ya wonder WHY, do you have such a hard for Emotiva, really, it's just absurd at this point. Talk about obcession, it's like something on the news or something.Take a break dude and enjoy something.

Moe,

The same can be said for those (as yourself) that will defend Emotiva endlessly even when the criticism is warranted. So I guess I'm the only one in this thread that has criticized Emotiva? Why not go after all the others? Why do you have it in for me (like I really care) wink.gif. I recall a post in another thread that asked whether to buy the UMC-200 or the Outlaw 975. I hands down recommended the UMC-200. You even posted after me saying that you agreed with my choice. So I guess all I do is criticize Emotiva wink.gif.

Oh by the way here are the posts wink.gif.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

What is lacking with the 990 that makes you want to change prepros? I would go with the UMC-200 over the 975 all day long. The UMC-200 has more features including Emo-Q and the PEQ that would allow manually tweaking your system. To me the 975 is very lacking in features.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

I think I would agree with Bill on this. I would suggest however at the price you consider auditioning both. The 990 is a great unit, hard to beat except for modern features but for sound I found it very nice.

My don't we have a short memory biggrin.gif.

Bill
post #16059 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

And so.....Bills endless critism of Emotiva continues. It don't really matter but it's got to make ya wonder WHY, do you have such a hard for Emotiva, really, it's just absurd at this point. Talk about obcession, it's like something on the news or something.Take a break dude and enjoy something.

 

I don't see Bill's remarks as 'endless criticism'. He is absolutely right with regard to the manuals. If it is criticism at all it is clearly justified. I think his conclusion is right too - you'd think they would look at what their direct competitors do and would want to do at least as well. Something as complex as a processor really needs a thorough and good manual if the customer is going to get the best out of it. I  think the point raised about cutting down on customer service calls is a valid one too - how many of those queries could have been avoided if the manuals were good?

 

It's perfectly possible you know to be an enthusiastic supporter of a company while at the same time voicing justified criticism when they fall short of the mark. 

post #16060 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo C View Post

And so.....Bills endless critism of Emotiva continues. It don't really matter but it's got to make ya wonder WHY, do you have such a hard for Emotiva, really, it's just absurd at this point. Talk about obcession, it's like something on the news or something.Take a break dude and enjoy something.

Why do you always react like you were personally offended when people discuss the shortcomings of Emotiva? Has anything been said that isn't true or false information?
post #16061 of 17192

Could care less about the manual never opened a manual to use my Mac! wink.gif

 

What I care about is how do they sound!

post #16062 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I don't see Bill's remarks as 'endless criticism'. He is absolutely right with regard to the manuals. If it is criticism at all it is clearly justified. I think his conclusion is right too - you'd think they would look at what their direct competitors do and would want to do at least as well. Something as complex as a processor really needs a thorough and good manual if the customer is going to get the best out of it. I  think the point raised about cutting down on customer service calls is a valid one too - how many of those queries could have been avoided if the manuals were good?

It's perfectly possible you know to be an enthusiastic supporter of a company while at the same time voicing justified criticism when they fall short of the mark. 
+1
I love emotive, But Criticism can make a company work to be better. I'm sure they are listing.wink.gif
post #16063 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOOM ZOOM View Post

+1
I love emotive, But Criticism can make a company work to be better. I'm sure they are listing.wink.gif

I agree 100% smile.gif. If every buyer of Emotiva components did not speak up when there are issues then none of those issues would ever be corrected IMO. I feel that most in this thread that have criticized Emotiva for any issues have done so respectfully. I'm sure Emotiva employees check this thread and other Emotiva related threads here on AVS.

Bill
post #16064 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Could care less about the manual never opened a manual to use my Mac! wink.gif

 

What I care about is how do they sound!

 

Couldn’t agree more. So how would it sound if you had no idea how to operate the PEQ facility and the manual failed to tell you?

post #16065 of 17192
About the only piece of gear you DON'T need a manual for anymore is a power amp and even then there is probably something about the amp that an owner needs to know and wouldn't without reading it.
Trust me I'm not defending Emotiva as I have no knowledge of their manuals other than for the amp I own.
IMO, most manuals are lacking and when you come across a really good one it shows.
Whether or not the constructive criticism on this thread has any effect is another matter.
post #16066 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

 
I agree in that I much prefer to have a paper manual than have to print one out as well. 

 

Interesting how we all differ in our preferences. I much prefer a PDF manual - mainly because I can search it and find what I want instantly instead of having to fartle about with indexes and scanning page after page. I load the PDF onto my iPad* (along with all the other manuals I have) so I can move it around with me easily and consult it while actually in the HT boot room. I find this far preferable to a dead tree manual. I will admit to occasionally printing out the odd page if I need to though.

 

*Also interesting is that I typed iPad on 'autopilot'. I actually use a Google Nexus 10 Android tablet :)  But I used to use an iPad ;)

post #16067 of 17192
my Marantz1070 amp from the early 70's even had the schematic diagram for the amp on the back two pages.I have never had a piece of equipment since the early 80's that had a schematic in the manual. I loved those manuals.
post #16068 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

About the only piece of gear you DON'T need a manual for anymore is a power amp and even then there is probably something about the amp that an owner needs to know and wouldn't without reading it. IMO, most manuals are lacking and when you come across a really good one it shows. Whether or not the constructive criticism on this thread has any effect is another matter.

Yes very few companies now take the time to write good instructions!
post #16069 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOOM ZOOM View Post

+1
I love emotive, But Criticism can make a company work to be better. I'm sure they are listing.wink.gif

The issue with the manuals is an old one... I don't know how difficult of a task it could be, but I assume "wide ranging" dan could take that one on personally and get it addressed.
post #16070 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbridled_id View Post

The issue with the manuals is an old one... I don't know how difficult of a task it could be, but I assume "wide ranging" dan could take that one on personally and get it addressed.

I don't think it would be difficult at all. It just seems that Emotiva doesn't want to spend the money to produce a good manual. The other factor is maybe Emotiva isn't to sure how their prepros actually function. So they play it safe by not putting anything but the basics in print wink.gif.

Bill
post #16071 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I don't think it would be difficult at all. It just seems that Emotiva doesn't want to spend the money to produce a good manual. The other factor is maybe Emotiva isn't to sure how their prepros actually function. So they play it safe by not putting anything but the basics in print wink.gif.

Bill

I don't think Emotiva is alone here.
I always felt that there were many side effect features in the ONKYO and some in the Av8801.
Components are purchased with Api's so much of what goes on inside is out of their control.
Oppo is limited by the features provided by Mediatek.

It is the nature of tech product these days.

- Rich
post #16072 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I don't think Emotiva is alone here.
I always felt that there were many side effect features in the ONKYO and some in the Av8801.
Components are purchased with Api's so much of what goes on inside is out of their control.
Oppo is limited by the features provided by Mediatek.

It is the nature of tech product these days.

- Rich

The manuals with Onkyo and Oppo components are far superior to any manual from Emotiva. I'm sure there are omissions in their manuals and they are not perfect. But I found the manuals of both the UMC-1 and the USP-1 to be pretty much useless IMO.

Bill
post #16073 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

The manuals with Onkyo and Oppo components are far superior to any manual from Emotiva. I'm sure there are omissions in their manuals and they are not perfect. But I found the manuals of both the UMC-1 and the USP-1 to be pretty much useless IMO. Bill

I hear you many manuals are very incomplete, I believe I is due to the fact that people don't read them so companies just cut back on it! I myself would prefer short instruction videos rather than complicated manuals that are incomplete and some time inaccurate!
post #16074 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I hear you many manuals are very incomplete, I believe I is due to the fact that people don't read them so companies just cut back on it! I myself would prefer short instruction videos rather than complicated manuals that are incomplete and some time inaccurate!

I'm sure many do not read manuals. But that is kind of a poor excuse for any company not to produce a decent manual. Videos would work well but I'm old school I guess and I prefer a manual smile.gif.

Bill
post #16075 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I'm sure many do not read manuals. But that is kind of a poor excuse for any company not to produce a decent manual. Videos would work well but I'm old school I guess and I prefer a manual smile.gif. Bill

I am not saying it's an excuse just think that's what they think and that way they can cut down their cost!
post #16076 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I am not saying it's an excuse just think that's what they think and that way they can cut down their cost!

The last couple NAD components I purchased had the manual on a cd. AT first I didn't like it, but as time went on I did appreciate it.
post #16077 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I don't think it would be difficult at all. It just seems that Emotiva doesn't want to spend the money to produce a good manual. The other factor is maybe Emotiva isn't to sure how their prepros actually function. So they play it safe by not putting anything but the basics in print wink.gif.

Bill


Oh I think it is just laziness or indifference... What else could it be as this issue has been brought up time and again ? The customer is always right, but again I personally always perceived Dan to be just a bit smug.

That aside I want to chime in and say that I have always found your criticisms of Emotiva to be fair and levelheaded. I for one had taken a far more abrasive tone in the past , though I always felt the "goober" shoe fit to a T.

Will the XMC ever see the light of day and if so.....
post #16078 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I don't think it would be difficult at all. It just seems that Emotiva doesn't want to spend the money to produce a good manual. The other factor is maybe Emotiva isn't to sure how their prepros actually function. So they play it safe by not putting anything but the basics in print wink.gif.

Bill

Bill,

I believe you have nailed it, they just don't know and the constant "it works as designed" when a five year old knows that no one in their right mind would have designed it (think UMC-1 and bass management to start) the way Emo claims they did it deliberately.

Vis
post #16079 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by visiter555 View Post

Bill,

I believe you have nailed it, they just don't know and the constant "it works as designed" when a five year old knows that no one in their right mind would have designed it (think UMC-1 and bass management to start) the way Emo claims they did it deliberately.

Vis

Right.......
That's why they have a thriving high end audio business and Rabid Fan Base.
Customer satisfaction, user base word of mouth endorsement, is what has made there business grow, along with great performing products at affordable prices.
Not to mention there latest collaboration with Bob Carver.
I think they are doing OK.
Just saying.
O_o
post #16080 of 17192
Quote:
Originally Posted by VINYLFREAK4 View Post

Right.......
That's why they have a thriving high end audio business and Rabid Fan Base.
Customer satisfaction, user base word of mouth endorsement, is what has made there business grow, along with great performing products at affordable prices.
Not to mention there latest collaboration with Bob Carver.
I think they are doing OK.
Just saying.
O_o

You are 100% correct...Emo has rabid fans. lol

It is called purchase by price, look up K-Tel sometime. Made money, Lost Money, Made more money, but low cost (and questionably low quality) product that met the mass market pocketbooks.
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