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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 546

post #16351 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

boot,

Yes I did get another one. I found one here on the AVS classifieds and went for it. I just like using an analog preamp for some reason. I like the 4311 with Audyssey (flat) for movies and multi-channel music. But for stereo music I prefer the 2100. It might be all my head but thats OK smile.gif.

Bill

Nothing wrong with that at all.cool.gif
post #16352 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

sahmen.

Although I have no experience with the Pre-1 you are correct that you can use it the way you described. I have a Parasound 2100 preamp that has HT Bypass and I'm using it as described above. The one big advantage that the 2100 has over the Pre-1 and the Emotiva USP-1 is that the 2100 doesn't have to be on to use the HT Bypass feature. In other words when the 2100 is off it allows the signal from my Denon 4311 to be passed when I use the 4311 for TV, movies or multi-channel music. Does the Pre-1's manual show the correct way to connect it when used in a HT system? If not here is a link to the 2100 manual and on page 8 it shows how to connect the 2100 in a HT system. It should be similar to the Pre-1.

Bill

Bill:

Thanks for this great input. The parasound preamp manual seems cool, and I shall try to use it this weekend for setting up the Pre-1. The Pre-1 manual does not show how to connect it to an HT system, which is partly why I posted this query, so the manual you have posted seems very helpful.

I shall let you know how successful this turns out to be. One question behind all of this is whether the Pre-1 will help deliver better sq in music in the 2.1 stereo format than the Onkyo ht system can. I am aware of the possible controversies that could develop when sq questions are raised like this, but If anyone has any helpful ideas, they'd be really welcome.
post #16353 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

boot,

Yes I did get another one. I found one here on the AVS classifieds and went for it. I just like using an analog preamp for some reason. I like the 4311 with Audyssey (flat) for movies and multi-channel music. But for stereo music I prefer the 2100. It might be all my head but thats OK smile.gif.

Bill

Since you ears are connected to your head, it is valid tongue.gif

I wish I could try and buy.

- Rich
post #16354 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Since you ears are connected to your head, it is valid tongue.gif

I wish I could try and buy.

- Rich

I guess I was right in a way wink.gif. You have a PM regarding the 2100.

Bill
post #16355 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Any of you asked for warranty service?

or are the RCAs not covered?


I sent them an email the minute I noticed it when I got it but I never got a reply back from them. I did tell them to note it in my file in case an issue pops up later in the amps life.


It is loose but works and I do not plan on unplugging or moving it...I will leave it alone.
post #16356 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

boot,

Yes I did get another one. I found one here on the AVS classifieds and went for it. I just like using an analog preamp for some reason. I like the 4311 with Audyssey (flat) for movies and multi-channel music. But for stereo music I prefer the 2100. It might be all my head but thats OK smile.gif.

Bill
That's ok what's in the head makes the biggest difference wink.gifsmile.gif
post #16357 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspyr View Post

But the XPA-3 is discontinued. I was told that a new 3 channel is in the works, but no specs or release date yet. As of last week there were "a couple" factory refurb XPA-3's available at $100 off retail. You can't get it on the site, you have to call.


Is it not replaced by the 2nd gen XPA3?

As far as I know that is the plan. I know the gen 2 xpa-5 and xpa-2 have been available for several weeks now. I was under the impression that the gen 2 xpa-1 and xpa-3 would be available soon...although "soon" in emo time could be 5 years (xmc-1 anyone tongue.gif).

XPA-3 Gen 2 Now Available cool.gif
post #16358 of 17194
Interesting that it has slightly more 4ohm power than the xpa-3 gen1 and the gen2 xpa-5.
post #16359 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Interesting that it has slightly more 4ohm power than the xpa-3 gen1 and the gen2 xpa-5.

Meh, 30W difference isn't a big deal really.
Must have been a good day on the bench. wink.gif
post #16360 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Interesting that it has slightly more 4ohm power than the xpa-3 gen1 and the gen2 xpa-5.

Meh, 30W difference isn't a big deal really.
Must have been a good day on the bench. wink.gif

 

 30 watts is insignificant as you say. A fraction of a decibel.  The better RCA jacks are far more important IMO. 

post #16361 of 17194
How much did the price jump from gen 1 to gen 2?
post #16362 of 17194
$100 I believe.
post #16363 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

sahmen.

Although I have no experience with the Pre-1 you are correct that you can use it the way you described. I have a Parasound 2100 preamp that has HT Bypass and I'm using it as described above. The one big advantage that the 2100 has over the Pre-1 and the Emotiva USP-1 is that the 2100 doesn't have to be on to use the HT Bypass feature. In other words when the 2100 is off it allows the signal from my Denon 4311 to be passed when I use the 4311 for TV, movies or multi-channel music. Does the Pre-1's manual show the correct way to connect it when used in a HT system? If not here is a link to the 2100 manual and on page 8 it shows how to connect the 2100 in a HT system. It should be similar to the Pre-1.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

boot,

Yes I did get another one. I found one here on the AVS classifieds and went for it. I just like using an analog preamp for some reason. I like the 4311 with Audyssey (flat) for movies and multi-channel music. But for stereo music I prefer the 2100. It might be all my head but thats OK smile.gif.

Bill

Bill, to update you on my Pre-1 situation, I just found a kind poster at the Emotiva Lounge who happens to have his Pre-1 rigged between a Yamaha AVR and an XPA-5 (Gen 2) for 2.1 channel music, which is exactly similar to what I am trying to accomplish... He has been kind enough to give me step-by-step instructions as to how to proceed. It turns out I am only going to need two xlr cables to hook up my L and R fronts from the Pre-1 to the Emotiva, and two other RCA cables to connect the unbalanced ports of those same L & R channels from the Pre-1 to my sub, and voila! -- problem solved, including the alleged issue of "no bass management"! I am now waiting impatiently for the two xlr cables I just ordered, and then I shall be all rigged up and ready to go... hopefully... Will let you know how it goes when things are set up. Thanks again.
post #16364 of 17194
Hello, lucky Emotiva fans and owners.
I am new to this thread. I bought a used XPA-3 (Gen 1) a few days ago. It is arriving tomorrow. Can't wait.
Who uses it with a power conditioner like Panamax or something similar? Do you experience any improvement in sound quality, or is it just a "peace of mind" thing, in in unlikely chance of a lightning or an extreme power surge?
Judging by the fact that I purchased the XPA used you can probably tell I am not a man of great means. I cant afford to buy something I dont actually need. If the conditioner doesnt make sound better, then I dont need it . By better I mean being able to hear the difference, not just read about it in some marketing case studies or white papers.
Does a power conditioner actually deliver a cleaner sound? Is the difference audible? Is it cleaner all the time, or only if there is lower or higher power than needed? Is it needed for such a mid level Emotiva product as XPA-3 (this aint exactly an XPR after all?)
Or all of this is just marketing gimmicks?
Thank you for your help
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/16/13 at 5:48pm
post #16365 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Hello, lucky Emotiva fans and owners.
I am new to this thread. I bought a used XPA-3 (Gen 1) a few days ago. It is arriving tomorrow. Can't wait.
Who uses it with a power conditioner like Panamax or something similar? Do you experience any improvement in sound quality, or is it just a "peace of mind" thing, in in unlikely chance of a lightning or an extreme power surge?
Judging by the fact that I purchased the XPA used you can probably tell I am not a man of great means. I cant afford to buy something I dont actually need. If the conditioner doesnt make sound better, then I dont need it . By better I mean being able to hear the difference, not just read about it in some marketing case studies or white papers.
Does a power conditioner actually deliver a cleaner sound? Is the difference audible? Is it cleaner all the time, or only if there is lower or higher power than needed? Is it needed for such a mid level Emotiva product as XPA-3 (this aint exactly an XPR after all?)
Or all of this is just marketing gimmicks?
Thank you for your help

I have a monster power conditioner for peace of mind for XPA-3 and two years ago it saved all equipment from a power surge that fried my PC and cable box in another room. Emotiva says that their amps have built in protection and the units should be plugged directly into the wall outlet and power conditioners may rob dynamic power when needed by the amp. It is up to you if you want to go the power conditioner route or not. As far as improved sound can't say that I've heard any improvement. eek.gif
post #16366 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnnt29 View Post

I have a monster power conditioner for peace of mind for XPA-3 and two years ago it saved all equipment from a power surge that fried my PC and cable box in another room. Emotiva says that their amps have built in protection and the units should be plugged directly into the wall outlet and power conditioners may rob dynamic power when needed by the amp. It is up to you if you want to go the power conditioner route or not. As far as improved sound can't say that I've heard any improvement. eek.gif

Thanks, jnnt29. Good to see another dog lover. Mine are 3 Yorkies. The only kind of dog that doesn't know that it is small. All 3 of them are 5 inches tall, but somehow manage to chase neighbor's giant Labradors out of subdivision.
But I digress. That was useful information. I started to google the topic and stumbled on this Crutchfield "informercial".
According to the link without the power conditioner the sound was, verbatim:
Quote:
... Bass not as pronounced, high-frequency detail and definition loss, more compressed sound.
Quote:
... The bass lost its punch, and the overall sound was muddier.

Not disagreeing with you, of course! We all know how much marketing BS is in their "editorials" (ain't exactly double blind trials of products by any means!) biggrin.gif
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/16/13 at 7:05pm
post #16367 of 17194
Guys, I got a used Emotiva XPA-3 from a fellow avsforum subscriber. I need some guidance from those of you who have power amps connected toa Pioneer Elite VSX-53 or similar. What settings did you change to make sure your power amps perform optimally? Speaker sizes are irrelevant now? recalibration? what else? did you change x.over? Equalization after MCACC?
Thanks
post #16368 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Guys, I got a used Emotiva XPA-3 from a fellow avsforum subscriber. I need some guidance from those of you who have power amps connected toa Pioneer Elite VSX-53 or similar. What settings did you change to make sure your power amps perform optimally? Speaker sizes are irrelevant now? recalibration? what else? did you change x.over? Equalization after MCACC?
Thanks
For sure you need to recalibrate again .Your speakers size and your crossovers should be the same unless you changed speakers .
post #16369 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Guys, I got a used Emotiva XPA-3 from a fellow avsforum subscriber. I need some guidance from those of you who have power amps connected toa Pioneer Elite VSX-53 or similar. What settings did you change to make sure your power amps perform optimally? Speaker sizes are irrelevant now? recalibration? what else? did you change x.over? Equalization after MCACC?
Thanks
For sure you need to recalibrate again .Your speakers size and your crossovers should be the same unless you changed speakers .
x2.

All ya got to do is plug it in, perform your auto-cal and crank it up! cool.gif
post #16370 of 17194
Just run MCACC again and enjoy.
post #16371 of 17194
Thank you, everybody. next question.

I want to buy Black Trim replacement for the XPA-3. What can I use to attach them? Will the trim kit arrive with a small L-shaped thingy that can be used to screw them in? These are not Phillps attachment screws.
post #16372 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Thank you, everybody. next question.

I want to buy Black Trim replacement for the XPA-3. What can I use to attach them? Will the trim kit arrive with a small L-shaped thingy that can be used to screw them in? These are not Phillps attachment screws.

 

The small L shaped thingy is an Allen Key or a Hex Spanner. I can't recall if Emo include one with the trim kit, but you can pick them up at any hardware store if not. They usually come in a set for a few bucks.

 
Something like this is what you are looking for:
 

 

post #16373 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The small L shaped thingy is an Allen Key or a Hex Spanner. I can't recall if Emo include one with the trim kit, but you can pick them up at any hardware store if not. They usually come in a set for a few bucks.
 
Something like this is what you are looking for:
 





My trim kit didn't include the Allen wrenches. the trim plates do look good though!
post #16374 of 17194
Thank you.
Another question.
Is there going to be AN AUDIBLE difference between this Monoprice speaker wire (they most expensive they have, but still budget priced) with their banana plugs and Emotiva's own X SS speaker cable?
post #16375 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

Thank you.
Another question.
Is there going to be AN AUDIBLE difference between this Monoprice speaker wire (they most expensive they have, but still budget priced) with their banana plugs and Emotiva's own X SS speaker cable?

 

No. Speaker wire is speaker wire. All you need is the right gauge for the job. If your cable runs are less than about 40 feet, you will be OK with 14 AWG copper speaker wire from anywhere more or less. If you want to push the boat out, go for 12 AWG - that will do for more or less any domestic installation, even very long runs.

 

The monoprice wire is $32 for 100 feet. 100 feet of the Emo wire would cost you an incredible $1,500. That is a scandalous waste of money!

 
Don't be misled by marketing BS and fancy coloured cable sheaths - what matters is the thickness (gauge) of the copper. I would go for decent banana plugs because some of the cheap ones can be mechanically dubious in that they may not make a good connection with the wire. Again, don't spend a fortune on banana plugs. These look OK to me. 

 

If you are interested and want to learn more about speaker wire and the myths created around it by people trying to part you from your money, these articles are a good read:

 

 

Edit: a good point to make to people who try to convince you to spend real money on wires is this... inside your speaker there is a lot of wire. The voice coil of a woofer could have hundreds of feet of wire in it. Is this wire 'special' wire or does it have any 'magic' properties. No - it is just 'copper wire' of appropriate gauge. Why?   Because the guys who engineered and designed the inside of your speakers know that wire is wire.


Edited by kbarnes701 - 9/19/13 at 7:20am
post #16376 of 17194
I have the XPA-5 Gen 2 amp hooked up to my Denon X4000 running my FR, FL, CC, SL, SR. When the system is powered on with nothing playing the speakers have a buzzing and hissing sound coming through them that is audible up to 2' from the speaker. I have tried new cables, ground loop isolators, different plugs, and even hooked up a different AVR and still no change. If I just power on the amp I still get the buzz. If I disconnect everything from the amp but the speaker wires the hissing becomes audible from other rooms. Is this normal to have buzzing and hissing coming through the speakers with Emotiva amps?
post #16377 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyalP View Post

I have the XPA-5 Gen 2 amp hooked up to my Denon X4000 running my FR, FL, CC, SL, SR. When the system is powered on with nothing playing the speakers have a buzzing and hissing sound coming through them that is audible up to 2' from the speaker. I have tried new cables, ground loop isolators, different plugs, and even hooked up a different AVR and still no change. If I just power on the amp I still get the buzz. If I disconnect everything from the amp but the speaker wires the hissing becomes audible from other rooms. Is this normal to have buzzing and hissing coming through the speakers with Emotiva amps?

 

No. Emo amps are almost silent when listening through the speakers with no source selected or playing. I can put my ear to my tweeters with the prepro turned up to max volume and hear absolutely nothing. What do you mean when you say the hissing becomes audible from other rooms?  What else have you got connected?

 
Try this - disconnect everything but the front left speaker. Listen to it. Does it make the noise?  Repeat for the other 4 speakers individually - do they all make the noise?  
post #16378 of 17194
When i disconnect everything from the back of the amp except the speaker wires and speakers the hissing becomes so loud that I can go into another room and hear it.

Now with everything hooked up to the amp (rca's) If I have just one speaker hooked up the hissing is very low, but as more speakers are hooked up to the amp the louder and more audible the hissing and buzzing becomes.
post #16379 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyalP View Post

When i disconnect everything from the back of the amp except the speaker wires and speakers the hissing becomes so loud that I can go into another room and hear it.

Now with everything hooked up to the amp (rca's) If I have just one speaker hooked up the hissing is very low, but as more speakers are hooked up to the amp the louder and more audible the hissing and buzzing becomes.
Can you try plugging the amp's power plug into a different outlet? In some cases, an improperly grounded circuit or one with something electrically 'noisy' on it (like a fan), can lead to noise from the amp.


Max
post #16380 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

x2.

All ya got to do is plug it in, perform your auto-cal and crank it up! cool.gif

That is what I thought as well, but it turned out not to be the case.

I bought this XPA-3 used from a fellow avsforum subscriber. We haggle on the price, he throws in 3 Canare RCA cables but warns me that he never tested them because he uses XLR cables. A paragon of integrity, this seller. He went out of his way for me.
He fedexes the XPA-3 to me only a few hours later. The amp arrives a few days afterwards.
Excellent shape, looks perfect. I connect it to my Pioneer Elite VSX-53 with the Canare cables and the first impression is not good. Sounstage, imaging, sound body are all worse than the Elite produces with my Polk LSi-9s. Even the volume is lower. If before Emotiva my normal volume was between -40 and -50, with the Emotiva I have to crank it up to -30 to get the same level.
At this point I am not sure whether the amp is defective. I am not an audiophile. "Audio fool" describes me better. I have never owned a power amp before, but I am pretty sure it is supposed to improve the sound, not to make it worse or quieter.
I decide to go with the process of elimination. The thick Canare cables are disconnected and replaced with a pair of old premium RCAs. Since I only have a pair, the center retains the Canare. The sound marginally improves in Stereo mode. I Google the cable model and it turns out to be a special video cable, not an audio cable. Still, I am not out of the woods yet. The sound is still muddy, slightly worse than receiver's alone, but not as much as before. Could it be that this the Emotiva's best? Are my expectations too high?
I decide to calibrate the Elite as you guys suggested. It improves the volume difference between different channels, but overall quality of Polks sound still lacks clarity. They dont exactly sound like a pair of white van speakers, but pretty close to them.
I hit both Emotiva's and Elite's manuals. The first one is only a few pages and doesnt help me much. The second manual is overwhelming. Still, I go step by step and change everything that can be changed. Since Elite is a feature rich product that takes me a while. Equalization, full phase control, x.over, speaker sizes, tone, DRC, bunch of other things - nothing helps.
I am about to give up and shut the Emotiva down - thinking it is defective - when it hits me.
I recalibrate the Elite for the second time, this time with Advanced Equalization Setup (1c5c.Adv.EQ Setup).
I create a different memory profile for this calibration.
Here are the settings:

MCACC: M1.EMOTIVA
Time Position: 30-50ms
EQ Type: ALL CH ADJUSTMENT (Calibrates with emphasis on frequency response)
Standing Wave Multi-Position: NO

The Elite does its trick and in 10 mins I can test the sound again.

I try a few DTS-HD Master Audio music discs (I convert them from Stereo to 5.1 as a hobby) and immediately realize that the problem is solved. The music becomes muti-dimensional even in Stereo mode, just like you opened a pop up 3D book. It expands, deepens. The tweeters are now awake, working overtime. Midrange sounds much clearer than VSX's, it isnt mumbling to itself as before. Every instrument is distinct, clearly pronounced. The crashing of cymbals is suspended in the air a second longer, it does not overshadow the vocals or guitars anymore. Instruments, voices are reincarnated in their original glory. I can enjoy nuances I didn't even know where recorded (and I heard these BluRays a thousand times before). It isn't just listening to music anymore. It is experiencing it, like you are actually there, in the recording studio.

The bass doesnt change much as the subwoofer has not been touched (Sunfire HRS-10), still connected directly to VSX-53.

I cannot describe my relief. I had no recourse with the seller because this was not an Amazon or Ebay purchase. I just PM-ed him on another forum and he graciously agreed to sell it. So, if the unit was defective - which it clearly wasn't - I would have been stuck with it.

Anyway, I wanted to go on the record and describe this ordeal if someone has a similar problem. I am not sure why default calibration of the Elite did not make the changes and made the Emotiva sound worse than the AVR by itself. I am also not sure what exactly the AVR did frequency response-wise that I could not do with 9 channel EQ the Elite provides.

I couldn't be happier with the XPA-3. Now I have a chance to re-discover my old tracks. I have ordered new speaker wire, banana plugs and RCA cables on Monoprice, arriving next week. Can't wait.
Edited by grigorianvlad - 9/20/13 at 2:23pm
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