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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 558

post #16711 of 17194

Anybody interested in talking about the XDA-2? 

 

I'm liking mine so much I thought I'd start a dedicated thread for it:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506226/official-emotiva-xda-2-thread#post_24086992

post #16712 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

You can but with 5.2 plus heights or wides.
UMC-200 does this now. (or biamp the fronts also)

I just feel like i'd be going backwards dropping back to 5.1 again - I enjoy the extra audio that 7.1 provides.
post #16713 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdavep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Main thing that would put me off though is that it is only 7.2 which seems a bit retrograde these days. 

DItto for me. Would like to see front heights or wides. Im already running 7.1 with my UMC-200 and my next experiment would be to try out front heights, and the XMC doesnt offer that frown.gif

 

 

Yeah, there's no way I want to lose my Height channels.

post #16714 of 17194
I just found this link
So, there is no XPR-7 planned for release any time soon?
post #16715 of 17194

No, that privilege was reserved for Sherbourn, but then Sherbourn folded.  For some reason Emotiva ha been reluctant to market 7 channel amps.

post #16716 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I just found this link
So, there is no XPR-7 planned for release any time soon?

The XPR-7 they had planned on making was already being made under their Sherbourn brand. The Sherbourn PA-7-350. Since that wasn't exactly a hot commodity they scrapped the XPR-7 derivative. They sold the PA-7 on clearance for $999 with free shipping. Quite the deal. I would have bought one but they sold out at that price in less than an hour from what I hear. That would have been a great buy. I probably would have turned it for a tidy profit since I don't need any more amps. These days I don't buy anything weighing more than 50 pounds if I can avoid it.
post #16717 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post

I just found this link
So, there is no XPR-7 planned for release any time soon?

The XPR-7 they had planned on making was already being made under their Sherbourn brand. The Sherbourn PA-7-350. Since that wasn't exactly a hot commodity they scrapped the XPR-7 derivative. They sold the PA-7 on clearance for $999 with free shipping. Quite the deal. I would have bought one but they sold out at that price in less than an hour from what I hear. That would have been a great buy. I probably would have turned it for a tidy profit since I don't need any more amps. These days I don't buy anything weighing more than 50 pounds if I can avoid it.


i thought i read that in the first part of 2014 that the old pa-7 is being rebranded as an emo 7 channel amp, xpr or xpa-7???
post #16718 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

No, that privilege was reserved for Sherbourn, but then Sherbourn folded.  For some reason Emotiva ha been reluctant to market 7 channel amps.

Darn it, audio4life! Couldn't you break the bad news to me more gently? smile.gif
The XPR-7 looks terrific. I was hoping to buy it used one day, a few years in the future (perhaps "in another life" is more appropriate in this economy).
Probably the projected market was to small to justify the production. Too bad. Thanks for answering, though.
post #16719 of 17194

For good reason, look at the XPA-1 and XPR-2,  both will do 600w at 8 ohms and 1000w at 4 ohms.  But look at when that start adding more channels, less wattage..  now for surround like for the rear and fronts you can get away with maybe an xpa-100 for each of those speakers giving you 250w which I think is plenty for surround speakers.

 

A monoblock is ideal as each speaker get's equal power and it can bring out the best of your system but good Monoblocks are crazy expensive, I've owned krell, audio research, mcintosh but... not emotiva.   Now if you have money and it's no object to you, you can easily get into the audio"fool" trap!  Quality amp parts honestly don't cost much at all if you look at the chips and components, it's basic electronics.  Love how Hi-Fi used to be affordable now it's like "Let's make good stuff but vastly overcharge"  Those high prices are easily 50%+ markup from dealers as they do need profit but you're essentially paying 50% more than you have to.   I absolutely love Mcintosh but like cars I never pay sticker price.

 

Now I love the traditional look with the voltage meter(well that's what they looked like even when I still had Mcintosh's (I decided to go to college so yea those helped big time and I never had to take cough shark"private" student loans))  but it's just an added expense that isn't needed.

 

Emotiva if they went through say a dealer network and golly their prices would be up to "And then audiophiles will say, wow this sounds great"  the "you get what you pay for" doesn't apply here as the markup doesn't exist as they're direct, they also sell on Amazon to and they were prime eligible last time I checked.

 

Good amps don't cost a lot of money, audiophiles like to overpay and extremely overpay on "good" but super overpriced cables and speaker wire.  Honestly... Phono cables are the one cable I would spend money on and good rca interconnects but speaker cable/wire..no I can make my own.

 

 

Okay.. long enough rant but the specs from Emotiva are well priced and just buy the power you need, but personally go with a single channel amp and give every channel the same amount of power and you will notice a difference but for multiple channels I would vary that power and give the most "best" amps to the front and everything else I'd probably go with an XPA-2 as 2 of those plus 3 XPA-1 should give you seven channels of greatness.

post #16720 of 17194
I am a happy HT enthusiast with a set of Boston E series speakers (89db sensitivity). I am running the front E100s off of my Onkyo 3008 in BTL (Bridged Mode). From what I understand that 3008 can 'double' it's power bridged and achieve close to 280w/channel.

Unfortunately, I have issues when listening at reference level (0db on volume scale) during movies with all channels loaded with sound. The high volume passages usually results in the 3008 hitting it's power limits and shutting off.


Therefore, I am in the market for a dedicated amp (or dual amps) that could handle the high load and alleviate some of the strain off of the 3008. I don't feel that I need an extensive amount of power; I can hit over 100db easily with the receiver alone. While I would love a pair of dual XPA-1 monoblocks I just don't think it's necessary for the 1-2% of the time that I actually need more power than the 3008 can provide.


I would like to spend the least amount of money and am considering buying one XPA-100 for the center channel. I believe this would relieve the 3008 enough to prevent overload during high impact movie scenes; it seems to only need a slight amount of headroom.

Thoughts on 'upgrading' to an XPA-100 for the center channel alone?
post #16721 of 17194
can anyone tell me if emotive xp 5 channel amp have impoved in reference to the quality of the rca inputs, I had a xp 5 that I liked but had many problems with the rca inputs breaking when taking out the interconnects, I was wondering if they addressed this problem in their current model, thanks
post #16722 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jink View Post

I would like to spend the least amount of money and am considering buying one XPA-100 for the center channel. I believe this would relieve the 3008 enough to prevent overload during high impact movie scenes; it seems to only need a slight amount of headroom.

Thoughts on 'upgrading' to an XPA-100 for the center channel alone?

No doubt this will do what you want. I'd still get an XPA-3 to treat the LCR in the same way, but that's just me.
post #16723 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jink View Post

I am a happy HT enthusiast with a set of Boston E series speakers (89db sensitivity). I am running the front E100s off of my Onkyo 3008 in BTL (Bridged Mode). From what I understand that 3008 can 'double' it's power bridged and achieve close to 280w/channel.

Unfortunately, I have issues when listening at reference level (0db on volume scale) during movies with all channels loaded with sound. The high volume passages usually results in the 3008 hitting it's power limits and shutting off.


Therefore, I am in the market for a dedicated amp (or dual amps) that could handle the high load and alleviate some of the strain off of the 3008. I don't feel that I need an extensive amount of power; I can hit over 100db easily with the receiver alone. While I would love a pair of dual XPA-1 monoblocks I just don't think it's necessary for the 1-2% of the time that I actually need more power than the 3008 can provide.


I would like to spend the least amount of money and am considering buying one XPA-100 for the center channel. I believe this would relieve the 3008 enough to prevent overload during high impact movie scenes; it seems to only need a slight amount of headroom.

Thoughts on 'upgrading' to an XPA-100 for the center channel alone?
Oh, but the E100's sound SO good with the XPA-1s. They could rattle the windows in the Tron Legacy grid scene like that WITHOUT a sub.

biggrin.gif

Max
post #16724 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzer View Post

can anyone tell me if emotive xp 5 channel amp have impoved in reference to the quality of the rca inputs, I had a xp 5 that I liked but had many problems with the rca inputs breaking when taking out the interconnects, I was wondering if they addressed this problem in their current model, thanks

The RCA inputs on the XPA-5 Gen 2 are definitely improved over the 1st generation inputs that were a terrible design. Here is a link to the listing for the XPA-5 Gen 2 where you can see a picture of the rear panel showing the improved RCA input design.

Bill
post #16725 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

No doubt this will do what you want. I'd still get an XPA-3 to treat the LCR in the same way, but that's just me.

Very true. I am fighting to buy a large amp that I wouldn't benefit from; I purchase many items that are superfluous. Extra wattage is nice, but my 3008 is not lacking in power for most tasks.

The XPA-3 might add 1db or so to my maximum volume when going by wattage increase (a doubling of wattage for 3db) but would ensure the front stage has ample power. It is a great deal; slightly more money for an extra channel. But once we start talking about an XPA-3, my mind drifts to even more power of an XPA-2, dual XPA-1 or XPR-2.... MONEY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Oh, but the E100's sound SO good with the XPA-1s. They could rattle the windows in the Tron Legacy grid scene like that WITHOUT a sub.

biggrin.gif

Max

Oh I'm sure! tongue.gif The problem is the dual XPA-1 setup is $1998. eek.gif An XPR-2 is a better value at $1619 (I just don't want to run a 20amp line in my rental house).

Either way, that's a ton of cash for a rare occurrence. biggrin.gif
post #16726 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by jink View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

No doubt this will do what you want. I'd still get an XPA-3 to treat the LCR in the same way, but that's just me.

Very true. I am fighting to buy a large amp that I wouldn't benefit from; I purchase many items that are superfluous. Extra wattage is nice, but my 3008 is not lacking in power for most tasks.

The XPA-3 might add 1db or so to my maximum volume when going by wattage increase (a doubling of wattage for 3db) but would ensure the front stage has ample power. It is a great deal; slightly more money for an extra channel. But once we start talking about an XPA-3, my mind drifts to even more power of an XPA-2, dual XPA-1 or XPR-2.... MONEY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Oh, but the E100's sound SO good with the XPA-1s. They could rattle the windows in the Tron Legacy grid scene like that WITHOUT a sub.

biggrin.gif

Max

Oh I'm sure! tongue.gif The problem is the dual XPA-1 setup is $1998. eek.gif An XPR-2 is a better value at $1619 (I just don't want to run a 20amp line in my rental house).

Either way, that's a ton of cash for a rare occurrence. biggrin.gif
Yeah, avsforums, the home of overkill biggrin.gif where the motto is, "Spending other peoples money since 19XX"


Max
post #16727 of 17194
Would three XPA-100'S be better than an XPA-3 for the front channels?
post #16728 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Would three XPA-100'S be better than an XPA-3 for the front channels?

3 x XPA-100 would be nice. Positive is a little bit more power (250 vs 200 @ 8 ohm), a little faster (triple the capacitance) and perfect channel separation. Whether you would actually hear that difference is not certain. Only possible issue is that the 32 dB gain (vs 29 dB on all other Emotiva amps) might or might not cause a bit of hum with extremely sensitive speakers (from 95 dB/watt on).
post #16729 of 17194

XPA-100s are a lower line, they do give you more wattage but the XPAs have a much better design.  Personally you'll never beat a monoblock in pure performance but if you can't afford the $1000 or even the XPR monoblocks the best route would be a set of XPA-1L which is basically the little brother to the XPA-1 however you're only going to go up to 35w in class A operation beyond that it'll revert to class A/B mode. 

 

For me I'm going with monoblocks minus the front speakers, my front 2 speakers will be an XPR-2 and an XPA-1 for the center.  The rear speakers will be an XPA-1L and back speakers will be paired with an XPA-100.

Pricey plus the cost of the Pre/Processor but for pure sound performance it can't be beat at that price.

 

Your money should be spent on your front channel speakers and your back speakers, rear and surround back are their to support your experience but they don't need the power like your front speakers and possibly front presence depending on how many channels you're going to drive. 

 

The Kef-Q series is awesome, paired with a yamaha cx-a5000 and emotivia amplifiers you'll get a rich experience at an affordable price. 

post #16730 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

3 x XPA-100 would be nice. Positive is a little bit more power (250 vs 200 @ 8 ohm), a little faster (triple the capacitance) and perfect channel separation. Whether you would actually hear that difference is not certain. Only possible issue is that the 32 dB gain (vs 29 dB on all other Emotiva amps) might or might not cause a bit of hum with extremely sensitive speakers (from 95 dB/watt on).

My speakers are 87dB efficient NHT's that are very power hungry!
post #16731 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

My speakers are 87dB efficient NHT's that are very power hungry!

Wonder why. My 87db efficient speakers are happy as a clam on less than 1 watt average with 18 watts for peaks.
post #16732 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post


Yeah, avsforums, the home of overkill biggrin.gif where the motto is, "Spending other peoples money since 19XX"


Max

Well, another motto strongly defended around here, is all amps sound the same.  I'm wondering why those from that school of thought have allowed the thread to wander into amp differences like this.  Maybe because it's new year's day?


Edited by audio4life - 1/1/14 at 2:47pm
post #16733 of 17194
And Richard Clark is waiting to give anyone money that can tell one amp from the next. He still has that $10000 - and for good reason.

And if you think people are eager to help you spend your money read some of the amp recommendation threads on the Emotiva Lounge. Guys mulling over the idea of buying the Mini-X amp vs the UPA-200 to power their 101db Klipsch are soon being urged to buy the XPR-1 mono-block amps because "you can never have too much headroom!" For the most part its just absurd.
post #16734 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Yeah, avsforums, the home of overkill biggrin.gif where the motto is, "Spending other peoples money since 19XX"



Max
Well, another motto strongly defended around here, is all amps sound the same.  I'm wondering why those from that school of thought have allowed the thread to wander into amp differences like this.  Maybe because it's new year's day?
I'm 95% of that school of thought (i.e. solid state amps working within their optimal design parameters sound much more alike than different). The key is the specifications/parameters.

I actually had (and still have) the exact model of speakers that the poster (jink) has, i.e. Boston Acoustics E100's. I also happen to have used them with the Onkyo 5008 (for the most part, identical, slightly bigger brother avr to his Onkyo 3008). I first used them powered by the Onkyo. I then bridged the Onkyo to the E100's (10' MLP) and finally, paired them with XPA-1's. With the E100's powered straight off the 5008, first comment to note is that the 5008 actually has great amp section. VERY low noise floor (I could only hear the tweeter hiss from about 3-4" away). They sounded great for normal level music listening (calibrated to THX Reference for my 10 foot listening distance) with the MV (Main Volume) at about -15 to -20, but seemed a tad bit bass shy with no subs. Turning it up a little though to about -10 produces no harsh clipping (the regulation on the 5008 is very good. It begins compressing rather than allow clipping), but if you've listened to enough systems with high dynamic range capability (i.e. pro sound reinforcement), you can hear system dynamics being compressed.

I then bridged them, and they could play at -10 MV, but turning them up higher began exhibiting some limiting and compression. Again, this is quite different from harsh distortion and clipping, which means that folks who aren't too familiar might not notice any apparent loss as it still sounds pretty good ( when I used to setup pro sound reinforcement, I always setup soft knee compressor/limiters to avoid clipping and hitting harsh distortion. I could hear the setup running into the limiters/compression if the systems were pushed hard, though most folks just thought it sounded great).

When I finally broke down and got a pair (now trio) of XPA-1's for the Fronts, I could now turn it up to THX Reference for movies (and Movie soundtracks, concert BDs etc.) without noticeable compression at '0' MV from 10 feet away. I ran several REW compression sweeps to see if the setup COULD in fact reproduce THX Reference levels at 10' without compression, and they could. The sweeps all traced each other except with 5db increments up to the 105db THX specs at my 10' MLP. The E100's are rated to handle 400watts @ 8ohms. The XPA-1's (gen1) of course, can put out a constant 500watts @ 8ohms. One fo the first things I noticed with the XPA-1's was the dynamics.

If you haven't ever heard it, try out the Jim Keltner Drum Improv track #1 off the Sheffield Lab's Drum and Track disc
http://www.amazon.com/Sheffield-Drum-Track-Disc-Master/dp/B003JG93DC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388632669&sr=8-1&keywords=sheffield+lab+drum+%26+track+disc

That disc (and specifically that track), is one of my 'must listen to' audition tracks for dynamics on ANY speaker/system setup. With a capable setup, that track should sound like a real live drummer on a real live drumset in front of you. I've tried it on MANY setups and a LOT of them can't reproduce that track fully. The E100's powered by the 5008 (normal OR bridged) just couldn't quite reproduce the dynamics of the kick drum even at -10 to -15 MV. I initially mistakenly thought that it was a shortcoming of the E100's using 6 smaller 5.25" drivers for the bass, and that the E100's were simply not capable of prodigious bass due to design limtations. Boy, was I wrong. With the XPA-1's, the visceral impact of the kick drum was right there. If you've ever had a drummer for a roommate who setup his drumset in the living room and played/practiced on it ( yeah, college. Gotta love it), you know what a kick drum not only sounds like, but FEELS like. The E100's with the XPA-1's were now capable of reproducing that where they couldn't before. WITHOUT subs, and powered by the XPA-1's, the E100's could produce enough bass to shake the living room in the Tron Legacy Grid scene.

If the music is at a soft level, and there aren't any demanding dynamics, the 5008/3008 has a great SS amp section. If I stick to playing solo violin on it (Yo Yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman, Emily Palen etc.), I really wouldn't need any more than the 5008's amps as they sound fantastic as-is, but I want a system that can get down and bump and thump, rock and roar when I want it to AND play Movies at THX Reference, so the added power demands DO make a difference.

I've since replaced the E100's for Mains with Legacy Audio Focus SE's (even higher sensitivity and capable of handling 500 watts @ 4ohms, and XPA-1's of course, can pump out 1000watts@4ohms), initially to prepare for a MLP further away than my current 10' (which didn't quite happen), and moved to E100's to Surround duty. I don't regret getting the Focus SEs, but I still kept the E100s (actually have 2 pairs of E100s. One of them still unopened in the original boxes) and the XPA-1s are an incredible deal.


Max
post #16735 of 17194
Quote:
And Richard Clark is waiting to give anyone money that can tell one amp from the next. He still has that $10000 - and for good reason.

And if you think people are eager to help you spend your money read some of the amp recommendation threads on the Emotiva Lounge. Guys mulling over the idea of buying the Mini-X amp vs the UPA-200 to power their 101db Klipsch are soon being urged to buy the XPR-1 mono-block amps because "you can never have too much headroom!" For the most part its just absurd.

The Emo lounge is indeed rife with such suggestions.  I've read similar posts on Amazon reviews and home theater electronic review sites as well.  


Edited by audio4life - 1/1/14 at 8:23pm
post #16736 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

...

They sounded great for normal level music listening (calibrated to THX Reference for my 10 foot listening distance) with the MV (Main Volume) at about -15 to -20, but seemed a tad bit bass shy with no subs. Turning it up a little though to about -10 produces no harsh clipping (the regulation on the 5008 is very good. It begins compressing rather than allow clipping), but if you've listened to enough systems with high dynamic range capability (i.e. pro sound reinforcement), you can hear system dynamics being compressed.

I then bridged them, and they could play at -10 MV, but turning them up higher began exhibiting some limiting and compression. Again, this is quite different from harsh distortion and clipping, which means that folks who aren't too familiar might not notice any apparent loss as it still sounds pretty good ( when I used to setup pro sound reinforcement, I always setup soft knee compressor/limiters to avoid clipping and hitting harsh distortion. I could hear the setup running into the limiters/compression if the systems were pushed hard, though most folks just thought it sounded great).

When I finally broke down and got a pair (now trio) of XPA-1's for the Fronts, I could now turn it up to THX Reference for movies (and Movie soundtracks, concert BDs etc.) without noticeable compression at '0' MV from 10 feet away. I ran several REW compression sweeps to see if the setup COULD in fact reproduce THX Reference levels at 10' without compression, and they could. The sweeps all traced each other except with 5db increments up to the 105db THX specs at my 10' MLP. The E100's are rated to handle 400watts @ 8ohms. The XPA-1's (gen1) of course, can put out a constant 500watts @ 8ohms. One fo the first things I noticed with the XPA-1's was the dynamics.

Max

Great post.
The trouble with the all amps sound the same and most have enough power is they are right, except when they are wrong.

My experience with Receives is similar to yours. They sound flat long before they sound bad due to excessive clipping.
There is data out there that supports the notion that amps when driven compress before they produce enough objectional distortion. Each persons speakers, room, and listening preferences differ.

I can tell when the A51 is running out of gas driving my Salons and I am not hearing distortion.
Amps can simply fail to produce the power for a demanding peak and then sail along after that.
In fact, that is a good design choice for an AVR.

Here is a thread on AH that discusses compression:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/88388-do-modern-amplifiers-compress-before-clipping.html

based on this article:

http://www.adx.co.nz/techinfo/audio/note128.pdf

- Rich
post #16737 of 17194
I always thought that the speakers were being driven to dynamic compression. I've had some Dynaudio's on very large amps and dedicated AC power driven to compression. Think that was the amp? Or the speaker?
post #16738 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post

No, that privilege was reserved for Sherbourn, but then Sherbourn folded.  For some reason Emotiva ha been reluctant to market 7 channel amps.
Thats true but there is one coming very soon ; not the reference line though cool.gif
Quote:
You know it's a coming.... XPA-7.... 7x200 RMS, all channels driven. Soon.
4RU tall.Sweet.Goodnite!
Big Dan
Quote:
Hi guy's,Think of an XPA-5 with two more amp blades, a bigger power supply, and the chassis height raised by 1RU to accommodate the revised PS and amp modules.That would look like an XPA-7. With more blue lights, of course!
Cheers,
Big Dan
post #16739 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

I always thought that the speakers were being driven to dynamic compression. I've had some Dynaudio's on very large amps and dedicated AC power driven to compression. Think that was the amp? Or the speaker?
It's semantics based on how some folks use the term, but basically, it's about limiting the dynamics of the reproduced audio and the compression could come from either end, i.e. the amps not being able to keep up with the power demands for the peaks, OR the drivers in the speakers being unable to reproduce said peaks at sufficient SPL. Which is which will all depend on the components. If you have speakers that can handle 500 watts Program and you're powering them with an 80wpc avr, as you turn the volume up, the amps in the avr are going to compress first. If you're using a 2kilowatt monoblock to power a bookshelf speaker rated to handle 125 watts, the drivers are going to compress first as you turn things up (shortly before they disintegrate LOL).

Then again, as mentioned by another poster, someone using 101db/w/m sensitivity speakers from 8 feet away is likely NEVER going to turn it up loud enough for the speaker OR 80wpc avr to break a sweat.


Max
post #16740 of 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

I always thought that the speakers were being driven to dynamic compression. I've had some Dynaudio's on very large amps and dedicated AC power driven to compression. Think that was the amp? Or the speaker?

Could be either or both, the best way is to measure it and find out.
The most basic measurement setup requires a 1kHz sinewave signal source, an ac voltmeter and a SPL meter such as the ones Radioshack sells.
The sinewave signal source can be wav files or test tones from a cd played back from a PC or Smartphone/Tablet.

Under normal conditions, a doubling in the input voltage will result in a doubling of the voltage at the amp's output and a 6dB increase in SPL
Keep doubling the input voltage from the signal source to the amp until compression occurs.

Under compression this will no longer hold true, if the amp output doubles and the SPL shows less than a 6dB change, take a closer look at the speaker.
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