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EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 14

post #391 of 17187
Gonk,
Thanks, I'll try to see if I can find out from Dan or Lonnie, BTW Good work over at the Emotiva threads at av123 forum. Its been a very good read.
post #392 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post

I have the same question as Jriggy. Who here has run 4 ohm speakers on an LPA-1 with no issues?

I have 2 Polk LSi15's and an LSiC with an HK 635 AVR. I've had two HK 435's junk out on me and I'm not sure if my 4 ohm speakers are the issue.

Just need to see if the LPA-1 will power these or not. I just don't want to spend much over $500...

I am running the LPA-1 with an entire Magnepan setup and have had 0 problems. I am using a Denon 2307 as pre/pro.
post #393 of 17187
What Magnepans are you using? I am planning on running 4 1.6qr's and 2 MMGs, the MMG's used as the Center channel and center surround.
post #394 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBee View Post

Please do let us know about the performance.

After a a week of listening here my observations...
I'm no pro at this but I do enjoy music from jazz and blues to classic rock, and light classical. Below is a summary of my listening experiences.

Setup
LMC-1 pre/pro connected via 5.1 to the RX-V661 pre-in - hence any comparisons with the Yamaha would be using the same amp section.
HDDVD- Toshiba XA1
CD/DVD: Yamaha DVC900
Speakers: M:Infinity Overture 3, C: JBL SS-Center, Surrounds Cambridge SoundWorks S300s(x4) - 2 surrounds and 2 using the Yamaha front presence channels. Sub:HSU VTF1

Input sources:
CD Audio in via optical Bypass
DVD audio in via optical
Tuner FM Stereo

1. Mode: LMC-1 in Bypass with the V661 in Pure Direct

(A nice feature of the pure direct mode is that the receiver display panel switches off, which then eliminates any visual queues on the input source, and any biases that visuals could introduce)

LMC-1: Clear and uncompressed sound field - within the bounds of what my ears are capable of deciphering! Particularly impressed by the mid to high fiquency 'expansion'. Also the sound field had a definite effect of presence within the listening room. The only area of compression' that surfaced after repeated replaying of certain passages of music, appeared to be in the mid-range. One track where this was apparent was on the 'Concert for George' CD. during the intro to 'My Sweet Lord': with at least four acoustic guitars playing simultaneously, there was a clear lack of separation between each. This became apparent as I switched between the LMC-1 and the Yamaha V661, when the individual guitars became apparent with the latter.

Similar experiences with the Jazz material: Auditioned Keith Jarret's 'Koln Concert', Miles' 'Sketches of Spain', Joshua Redman's 'Wish', Jim Hall's 'Concierto' (an all time favorite I've been listening to for 30+ years!), another favorite of mine Yo-yo Ma's 'Simply Baroque'. All sounded excellent with very good clarity, but some degree on 'compression/crush' in the mids (1k-5k?), as mentioned above.

The bass from the LMC-1 was excellent, and I heard new notes on some old favorites which I had missed out on in the past, and probably where the LMC-1 has an edge over the Yamaha and other AV receivers in this price range.

By comparison the V661 sounded amazingly good. The primary difference was in the mid-highs (10k-15k) where the LMC-1 excelled. In the mid range (1k -5k) the V661 sounded more transparent, but lacked the extension in the sub range, where the LMC-1 delivered well. But nothing that a good sub could not correct.


1a. 2.1 audio was very clean as well for each unit and again minimal differences other than some added bass extension with the LMC-1.


2. DTS and PLII modes.

The LMC-1 delivered as much as one would expect for the home theatre fan. The PLII modes were clean and transparent, as were the DTS modes, though the Neo 6 did the least for me.

In comparisons with the V661, the sound was virtually identical, which is what one would expect if the specs are implemented as defined.

3. DSP Modes
I have to say up front I'm not a DSP fan, hence my search for clean 2-ch sound. With the LMC-1, none of the 8 DSP modes grabbed my attention - the HALL and POP modes sounded quite 'mushy', the rest were OK.

This is where the Yamaha did perform better and the Cinema DSP modes were superior. Other than the fact that the V661 has more choices, they came across as having a greater feel of presence, especially the JAZZ, ROCK and CLASSICAL modes.


Conclusions

I realize that my observations are very subjective. My primary mode of listening to audio is in BY-Pass/PURE DIRECT and the audible differences between the LMC-1 and an equivalent priced AV receiver (Yamaha RX-V661) are minimal or almost non-existent. Perhaps I need better speakers ! Also, I do wish the LMC-1 had phono inputs though - it would then qualify as audiophile gear'. However, it is marketed as a Home Theater package, and that is probably what it does well, as others have noted.

Next test will be to hook up the LMC-1 and the V661 to the LPA-1...

- Peter
post #395 of 17187
Something to be aware of - the LMC-1's "bypass" mode is not a normal bypass. Stereo analog inputs still go through an A/D conversion and a D/A conversion even in "bypass" mode - they just skip surround processing.

How did the surround mode memory work for you? The current indication is that the unit only has a single global surround mode memory - when you set a surround mode for a stereo analog or PCM signal on one input, that mode is applied to all other inputs until you change it for another stereo analog or PCM signal.
post #396 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Something to be aware of - the LMC-1's "bypass" mode is not a normal bypass. Stereo analog inputs still go through an A/D conversion and a D/A conversion even in "bypass" mode - they just skip surround processing.

How did the surround mode memory work for you? The current indication is that the unit only has a single global surround mode memory - when you set a surround mode for a stereo analog or PCM signal on one input, that mode is applied to all other inputs until you change it for another stereo analog or PCM signal.


Thanks for the insight on the "bypass" mode.

As far as the memory is concerned: definitely only one global memory for the surround modes. Effectivley stores the last mode that was selected and applies it to the next selected input, even if one had associated a different surround mode with the 'next input' earlier
.
post #397 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pas View Post

Next test will be to hook up the LMC-1 and the V661 to the LPA-1...

Definite "WOW" factor here !

The channel seperation is very apparent! Clarity and an excellent sense of dynamic range also discernable with both prepro combinations...

Again, similar notes with respect to the LMC-1 and the RX-V661.

The LPA-1 is staying, together with the V661. The latter for the excellent feature set for the $.
post #398 of 17187
I have the MPS-1 hooked to an Elite 84. My question is I don't seem to get a "wow" factor with this amp. I'm watching a movie at -13 and its not to loud something should be wrong, correct? I thought buying this amp the movies and music would leap from the speakers. That is not happening. Any ideas before I call Emotiva.

My setup
Pioneer Elite 84
Samsung 61" 1080P
Toshiba XA-2
Panasonic bluray
xbox 360
Focal 836v's fronts
Focals SR 800v
Focal CC 800v
SVS NDS/2 subwoofer

I should be able to crank this system and blow the house down but for some reason its not working. I'm going to hook the speakers back to the receiver and see if I find much of a difference.

thanks
post #399 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

I have the MPS-1 hooked to an Elite 84. My question is I don't seem to get a "wow" factor with this amp. I'm watching a movie at -13 and its not to loud something should be wrong, correct? I thought buying this amp the movies and music would leap from the speakers. That is not happening. Any ideas before I call Emotiva.

I should be able to crank this system and blow the house down but for some reason its not working. I'm going to hook the speakers back to the receiver and see if I find much of a difference.

In reality you only gained roughly about 2.5-3db more (only 2.5db more, if you believe Pioneers claim of 140wpc for the 84TXi, and 3db if it was 100wpc) in possible total actual volume output over the Pioneer, by adding the MPS-1 to it. You do not gain anything even near twice the actual volume by going from 100-130wpc to 200wpc. So if that is what you were expecting, it is also something that you are not even remotely going to get. You would need to increase you db output by 10db and your wattage output by a factor of 10X to do that, so 100wpc would need to jump up to 1000wpc to roughly approach the actual doubling of the volume output. What you should/did gain with the MPS-1, was a amp that has a bit more usable headroom and can drive more difficult loads, than the amp section that is built into your Pioneer AVR.

In case you want to see a simple way of how to calculate, how many more watts, equal how many more db's.
Look here.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html
post #400 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by pas View Post


Thanks for the insight on the "bypass" mode.

As far as the memory is concerned: definitely only one global memory for the surround modes. Effectivley stores the last mode that was selected and applies it to the next selected input, even if one had associated a different surround mode with the 'next input' earlier
.



I also have the LMC/LPA (received last week) and have posted some of my findings concerning surround mode memory over at av123
http://av123forum.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=118

Yes there is a global memory at work when the surround mode is set to one of the PLIIx modes. However, if an analog input is set to a Neo:6 mode, the results in my LMC are not global.

In my system, I have two analog input sources and one digital input source. The LMC will remember and apply Neo:6 to both analog inputs, but when I switch to the DVD input and play a DD2.0 encoded disc (last night Homicide: Life on the Street), the LMC will apply whatever PLIIx mode it chooses at random, or it will limit my Dolby choices to 3CH or lock me into one of the PLIIx modes that I cannot change even from the LMC menu. Neo:6 modes are N/A with DD bitstreams. Not really a big deal but figured I would mention it here to see what other users are experiencing if running a similar test.
post #401 of 17187
Alright Dude's,
Now I am totally confessed. Could someone please post a link or suggest a place for a primer in all the "new" Dolby modes??? My last receiver's newest mode was ProLogic. I am lost as to which type of Dolby Digital does what TO what. EG. Does the neo6 make CD's play in 5.1 or the such, OR for that matter (the main point), what the hell IS neo6, PIIx ect. ect.?? I am within 1/2" of pulling the trigger on the LMC-LPA combo but need to understand how these quirks will effect me. Habits: 50% music, 45% HDTV, 5% movies. 5.1 set up. If I know how to deal with them (or if they will even effect me) they won't bug me. Thank you for the help! I love lurking in this forum, great info good stuff...
post #402 of 17187
Hi all,

How the heck do you attach the wires to the "little green thing on the back of the mps-1". (trigger) Do you push it down? do the wires just lay inside? Help
post #403 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

In reality you only gained roughly about 2.5-3db more (only 2.5db more, if you believe Pioneers claim of 140wpc for the 84TXi, and 3db if it was 100wpc) in possible total actual volume output over the Pioneer, by adding the MPS-1 to it. You do not gain anything even near twice the actual volume by going from 100-130wpc to 200wpc. So if that is what you were expecting, it is also something that you are not even remotely going to get. You would need to increase you db output by 10db and your wattage output by a factor of 10X to do that, so 100wpc would need to jump up to 1000wpc to roughly approach the actual doubling of the volume output. What you should/did gain with the MPS-1, was a amp that has a bit more usable headroom and can drive more difficult loads, than the amp section that is built into your Pioneer AVR.

In case you want to see a simple way of how to calculate, how many more watts, equal how many more db's.
Look here.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html

Thank you for the reply.

We just finished watching Happy feet on Blu-ray and at -9. Sounded fantastic, no distortion. I've always used low end speakers in my systems until last week when I upgraded to the Focals. I'm assuming this has something to do with it as I've never been able to listen at -9. Amp or not. Time to watch the new bond movie...should be fun
post #404 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

Hi all,

How the heck do you attach the wires to the "little green thing on the back of the mps-1". (trigger) Do you push it down? do the wires just lay inside? Help

The trigger is a mini phono jack connection. You don't need to mess with the green thing on the back at all. Just plug the output trigger into the trigger in jack on the back of the MPS.
post #405 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by robollie View Post

Alright Dude's,
Now I am totally confessed. Could someone please post a link or suggest a place for a primer in all the "new" Dolby modes??? My last receiver's newest mode was ProLogic. I am lost as to which type of Dolby Digital does what TO what. EG. Does the neo6 make CD's play in 5.1 or the such, OR for that matter (the main point), what the hell IS neo6, PIIx ect. ect.?? I am within 1/2" of pulling the trigger on the LMC-LPA combo but need to understand how these quirks will effect me. Habits: 50% music, 45% HDTV, 5% movies. 5.1 set up. If I know how to deal with them (or if they will even effect me) they won't bug me. Thank you for the help! I love lurking in this forum, great info good stuff...

Check out the Surround Processing Modes section on this page.
post #406 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgiddyup View Post

The trigger is a mini phono jack connection. You don't need to mess with the green thing on the back at all. Just plug the output trigger into the trigger in jack on the back of the MPS.

The little green thing on the back of the MPS is the only way to connect the trigger cable. That is the problem. It dosen't have a mono plug like my elite receiver.
post #407 of 17187
Thanks, Peter. That was extremely informative. Moreso than most of what I've found online so far. Appreciate you taking the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pas View Post

After a a week of listening here my observations...
I'm no pro at this but I do enjoy music from jazz and blues to classic rock, and light classical. Below is a summary of my listening experiences.

Setup
LMC-1 pre/pro connected via 5.1 to the RX-V661 pre-in - hence any comparisons with the Yamaha would be using the same amp section.
HDDVD- Toshiba XA1
CD/DVD: Yamaha DVC900
Speakers: M:Infinity Overture 3, C: JBL SS-Center, Surrounds Cambridge SoundWorks S300s(x4) - 2 surrounds and 2 using the Yamaha front presence channels. Sub:HSU VTF1

Input sources:
CD Audio in via optical Bypass
DVD audio in via optical
Tuner FM Stereo

1. Mode: LMC-1 in Bypass with the V661 in Pure Direct

(A nice feature of the pure direct mode is that the receiver display panel switches off, which then eliminates any visual queues on the input source, and any biases that visuals could introduce)

LMC-1: Clear and uncompressed sound field - within the bounds of what my ears are capable of deciphering! Particularly impressed by the mid to high fiquency 'expansion'. Also the sound field had a definite effect of presence within the listening room. The only area of compression' that surfaced after repeated replaying of certain passages of music, appeared to be in the mid-range. One track where this was apparent was on the 'Concert for George' CD. during the intro to 'My Sweet Lord': with at least four acoustic guitars playing simultaneously, there was a clear lack of separation between each. This became apparent as I switched between the LMC-1 and the Yamaha V661, when the individual guitars became apparent with the latter.

Similar experiences with the Jazz material: Auditioned Keith Jarret's 'Koln Concert', Miles' 'Sketches of Spain', Joshua Redman's 'Wish', Jim Hall's 'Concierto' (an all time favorite I've been listening to for 30+ years!), another favorite of mine Yo-yo Ma's 'Simply Baroque'. All sounded excellent with very good clarity, but some degree on 'compression/crush' in the mids (1k-5k?), as mentioned above.

The bass from the LMC-1 was excellent, and I heard new notes on some old favorites which I had missed out on in the past, and probably where the LMC-1 has an edge over the Yamaha and other AV receivers in this price range.

By comparison the V661 sounded amazingly good. The primary difference was in the mid-highs (10k-15k) where the LMC-1 excelled. In the mid range (1k -5k) the V661 sounded more transparent, but lacked the extension in the sub range, where the LMC-1 delivered well. But nothing that a good sub could not correct.


1a. 2.1 audio was very clean as well for each unit and again minimal differences other than some added bass extension with the LMC-1.


2. DTS and PLII modes.

The LMC-1 delivered as much as one would expect for the home theatre fan. The PLII modes were clean and transparent, as were the DTS modes, though the Neo 6 did the least for me.

In comparisons with the V661, the sound was virtually identical, which is what one would expect if the specs are implemented as defined.

3. DSP Modes
I have to say up front I'm not a DSP fan, hence my search for clean 2-ch sound. With the LMC-1, none of the 8 DSP modes grabbed my attention - the HALL and POP modes sounded quite 'mushy', the rest were OK.

This is where the Yamaha did perform better and the Cinema DSP modes were superior. Other than the fact that the V661 has more choices, they came across as having a greater feel of presence, especially the JAZZ, ROCK and CLASSICAL modes.


Conclusions

I realize that my observations are very subjective. My primary mode of listening to audio is in BY-Pass/PURE DIRECT and the audible differences between the LMC-1 and an equivalent priced AV receiver (Yamaha RX-V661) are minimal or almost non-existent. Perhaps I need better speakers ! Also, I do wish the LMC-1 had phono inputs though - it would then qualify as audiophile gear'. However, it is marketed as a Home Theater package, and that is probably what it does well, as others have noted.

Next test will be to hook up the LMC-1 and the V661 to the LPA-1...

- Peter
post #408 of 17187
I just got the LMC/LPA recently and have been messing around with it but i havent figured out how to get it to play 2.1 with standard cds. Am i missing something here?
post #409 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

Check out the Surround Processing Modes section on this page.

As always gonk ya come through...
Great help, thanks!
post #410 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

Thank you for the reply.

We just finished watching Happy feet on Blu-ray and at -9. Sounded fantastic, no distortion. I've always used low end speakers in my systems until last week when I upgraded to the Focals. I'm assuming this has something to do with it as I've never been able to listen at -9. Amp or not. Time to watch the new bond movie...should be fun


Yes the speakers can have a lot to do with it! Ultimately in the end, the speakers are what you actually end up hearing more than anything else in the system. And they usually can have a very big influence in how it all comes together and sounds.
post #411 of 17187
I bought the Ultra set,the very best audio purchase I ever made.For the price of a half decent prepro I got a great amp and a half decent prepro.It's easy to see why some audio companies are becoming very concerned,a new standard has been set.
post #412 of 17187
I got the LPA-1 this week along with the Yamaha RX-v661 for the pre. I am so pleased. Destroys the Onkyo 604 I had., only if the 604 had preouts, unfair comparison I know.

But the bass, and highs...blows me away.
post #413 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeCiscoGuy View Post

I've used a Denon AVR-4800 as a pre/pro with an LPA-1. I can tell you that using the LPA-1 instead of the Denon's internal amps really opened up things up soundstage wise and overall sound quality improved.

Total newb question: What is meant by "pre/pro"? When using an AVR as a pre/pro with an amp, what exactly is happening?

I'm almost there but not quite understanding the lingo.
post #414 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by roncruiser View Post

Total newb question: What is meant by "pre/pro"? When using an AVR as a pre/pro with an amp, what exactly is happening?

I'm almost there but not quite understanding the lingo.

An avr has a preamp(volume control etc)it also has a processor for different listening modes,dts,dd and the others,it also has an amp section(in avrs generally lacking for serious setups).When your avr has preouts left,right,center etc...rca jacks,you can connect to an external amp/s for the power of your choosing/budget.

The downside is you generally also hear the cheaper prepro components of the avr,not all but most avr prepros are lacking for musical presentation.
post #415 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

Yamaha RX-v661 for the pre. I am so pleased. Destroys the Onkyo 604 I had., only if the 604 had preouts, unfair comparison I know.

actually, the Yamaha makes for a better pre-pro (than the Onkyo would) if you ask me, it has BurrBrown DAC's, better DSP, etc.,...should provide good sound-quality, combined with excellent video-processing.
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod...nfo/rxv661.pdf
post #416 of 17187
Could i add the LPA to the pre-outs of my Arcam AVR100 to drive some power hungry bookshelves ( think Era 5 or Dynaudio Focus 140 )?

Both of these manufacturers subscribe to the 'watts are cheap' design philosophy so I'm in the market for an affordable amp to give the speakers I end up with the requisite headroom to sound their best without changing the sound sig of my gear.

Also - newb question, but when using its pre-outs will I continue to adjust the volume on my receiver?
post #417 of 17187
This is all new to me. I am considering the Emotiva LPA1 / LMC1 Ultra theatre combo. Seems like a great deal. I will be using it for 90% Home Theatre. Has anyone had problems driving 4ohm speakers? Do you think its enough power for M&K 3 S150's , 2 pairs SS150;s surrounds and 2 SW95's. rears I am also going with 2 M&K MX350 subs but they have their own amps. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Barry
post #418 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryle View Post

This is all new to me. I am considering the Emotiva LPA1 / LMC1 Ultra theatre combo. Seems like a great deal. I will be using it for 90% Home Theatre. Has anyone had problems driving 4ohm speakers? Do you think its enough power for M&K 3 S150's , 2 pairs SS150;s surrounds and 2 SW95's. rears I am also going with 2 M&K MX350 subs but they have their own amps. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Barry

Great price, isn't it?

I can't believe you would have any trouble driving those M&Ks. While 4 ohms represents a fair load M&K are not that hugely inefficient compared to some others. (88 or 89db I if my memory serves me right).
(you should go by the 'minimum' impedance not the normally published ones, but M&Ks are quite stable in that regard in my experience.)
But check the output spec of the amp...if you plan to go with 7 channels you might want to step-up...you can get over 200W into 5 channels at 4 ohms, but 6 or 7 channels will have some compromise. Depends on your how hard you intend to drive it too.

Everything I've read about Emotiva is neutral and smooth with lots of power. A little 'warm' you could even live with. I would avoid bright or forward sounding amps with those speakers.
Emotiva owners will chime in, I'm sure!
Looks like you got a great system there!
post #419 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

Hi all,

How the heck do you attach the wires to the "little green thing on the back of the mps-1". (trigger) Do you push it down? do the wires just lay inside? Help

It pulls out and there are 2 tiny screws on the back, then once you attach the 2 wires for the trigger you just plug it back in as I recall.
post #420 of 17187
Quote:
Originally Posted by scpanel View Post

It pulls out and there are 2 tiny screws on the back, then once you attach the 2 wires for the trigger you just plug it back in as I recall.

Thank you
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