EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 27

Thanks man. I actually have the mps-1 and think it is the best bang for the buck out there.

What ones are you talking about?

wow, I just read the last few threads. What a bunch of grown up babies. Who really cares??? They (emotiva) have a great warrenty and return policy. Let people check it out for them selves. Maybe they have nicer speakers than you

No one has made a posative comment yet on Gmauriello's sweet score on the Adcom 7807, maybe it was a blessing in disguise that you received those bad modules. I do think it was just a case of bad / or maybe good luck all around.

Anyway this is about Emotiva, I hope they do well.

If gmauriello has anything to say about Emotiva's success, they won't be successful. Gmauriello was speaking negatively about the performance of the MPS-1. The same amp that mattburk thinks is the best bang for the buck. Gmauriello didn't stop there, he trashed the entire Emotiva product line. Gmauriello has scared many away from buying the LMC-1/LPA-1 combo, by trashing the LMC-1 which he never owned or heard.

Gmauriello is cruising the forum board looking to trash the Emotiva name while he no longer owns an Emotiva amp. I don't understand what he's doing here.

I thanks you and the rest of the forum thanks you for your illogical and informative opinion, gmauriello...

WTF is wrong with you? Broken record syndrome? You've bashed him 1000x more than he's bashed Emotiva. Let it go.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one, and they all stink.

Look, I've had an LMC, and I sent it back because it was too freaking buggy. Yeah, it sounded great. Spacious, nice soundstage and all the other audiophile hyperbole. But it was a hassle when it came to Dolby Digital 2.0 vs 5.1 streams, common to premium channels from my satellite provider. I don't want a hassle when I'm just trying to watch TV. Having to stop the source, manually reconfigure the surround sound mode, then restart the source, and hope that the commercial break doesn't switch to a different DD stream because I'd have to do it all over again or be stuck in some Dolby IIx: Dance Club in Rio sound mode. It was, IMHO, stupid. My 9 year old $300 JVC receiver had no problem dealing with it, nor does my 5 year old Pioneer Elite AVR, nor do my in-law's Sansutastic $199 HTIB.

For some people, specifically those that don't deal with changing dolby digital sources, the frustrations of owning an LMC would be significantly less. For them, the LMC is a great deal. Go in peace. Enjoy it!

I would strongly suggest that anyone debating over the LMC-1 should try it out for themselves. Just click that Buy button. Use the 30-day return policy. Listen to it. Tinker with the sound modes and see if it works for you. Maybe you'll love it, maybe you'll hate it. If you hate it, Emotiva will give you your money back. I paid for the return shipping out of my pocket, a whole $12. Either way, you're helping the cause. Keep it, and you're a happy Emotiva customer. Return it, and you're helping prove a point that the LMC needs work. Regardless of the outcome, it's more purposeful than just ranting and raving on an internet forum.

Amen!

I'm wondering if Emo didn't just bite off a little more than they could chew with the price that they offerd the lmc-1 for. I remeber when they first talked about makeing it over on the av123 forum. It was forever in the makeing, and then in and out of beta testing, and every time it came up for discussion it seems they were adding a surround mode, or some other feature to keep up with the demands of the ever changeing & developing surround sounds like dpliix (which was quite new and not on everything yet) / auto setups - which was the latest gadget being offered on alot of new receivers / and to top it all of hdmi was just getting started!

Unless I only listend to music, I cannot imagine buying a receiver or processor without hdmi audio capabilities, I think it was a bold if not reckless move putting the lmc-1 out to compete in a under 1,000 class bracket, where it would be competeing with receivers that have all the bells and whistles INCLUDING hdmi, especially if it still has quirks when most other receivers do not. I realize not everyone wants to wait forever to buy something just because of hdmi, but it is a pretty big deal NOT to have hdmi at this point. I don't have it and if I wasn't so darned patient I'd be buying a receiver with it right now, but I'm the kind of guy who can outwait anything.

The LMC-1 has HDMI with an external unit that hooks up to the LMC-1. The issues with the LMC-1 are software issues and not the hardware issues. Everything inside the LMC-1 to make it good is there, the programming of the firmware needs improvement.

My Denon AVR-3801 is 6 years old. The only advancement in technology the Denon does not have is Dolby ProLogic 2 and playing some of those SACD at audiophile 24-bit/192kHz.

People need to remember buying directly from the manufacturer saves 2-3x the cost of buying from a retailer. There's less marketing costs and no middlemen. I needed 3 component video inputs vs. the two component inputs on my Denon.

The sound quality difference between the Denon and the Emotiva combo is very apparent. The Emotiva has much more power than the Denon. A good rule of thumb is how much does the amp weigh. The Denon weighs 40lbs and the Emotiva amp alone is 63lbs. Add another 23lbs for the LMC-1. If somebody thinks they are going to find a better sounding receiver than the Emotiva at even double the price they are mistaken. I love my Denon receiver.

With the 40% future discount on a pre/pro and $100 off for purchasing the combo, how much money are you losing? Nothing. So what's the big argument about?

I did some research on the LMC-1 DSP chip. It looks like the LMC-1 uses the Cirrus Logic CS49400 chip. This is the same chip the Outlaw Audio 990 uses.

http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/pro/detail/P1031.html

A couple early-morning clarifications...

The LMC-1 uses the Cirrus 49300, not the 49400 - the 49300 is what was used in the Outlaw Model 950 and the Rotel RSP-1066 (both introduced in early 2002). This part choice is the reason that the LMC-1 cannot provide AV sync delay and why it has had such trouble with Pro Logic IIx. This has been discussed at length at AV123 and confirmed by Emotiva and Mark Schifter of AV123.

HDMI with an external switch provides video switching only - something that can also be done with a simple MonoPrice HDMI switch and your six-year-old Denon. The people who want HDMI on their receiver or processor want it so they can pipe multichannel PCM audio (or maybe even raw bitstreams of Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio) into the processor via HDMI. An external switch will not provide this. The MMC-1's internal HDMI switching will also not provide this - its HDMI switching is functionally identical to the DVI switching on the Outlaw Model 990.

I'm not sure I would agree with your 2-3x figure - I've certainly never heard any of the internet-direct companies claim that magnitude of difference. If I had to put a number on it, I'd suspect it's closer to 1.5x to 2x, depending to some degree on the product in question. True, the middle man is gone, but the company (at least the ones interested in sticking around for the long haul) takes on a significantly larger customer support burden by dropping that middle man and they still have to do some marketing to get business (ads on forums like this one, ads in print magazines, web sites that need to be more robust than might otherwise be the case, trade shows, and often forums of their own). Moving that customer support role to the manufacturer can often yield excellent results, or course - examples that come to mind readily are OPPO Digital, Outlaw Audio, Axiom Audio, HSU, AV123, and others - as it's more consistent than counting on the local dealer who may or may not be interested in helping.

Ok, 49300 is the processor for the LMC-1. That's half the processing power of hte 49400.

So, I ask again:

Has anyone heard a recent timetable for the firmware upgrades for the LMC-1? I received an email response from Lonnie back on April 3rd that they were:
" in the process of a full review of all the code."
Additionally, I was told I would be informed when the 'uploaders' become available.

Actually, if you REALLY did some research you'd find that it is the CS 49326, and it has significantly less power than the CS 49400 series DSPs.

CS 49326: Dual 24 bit/24 bit cores, 86 MIPS
CS 49400: Dual core, 24 bit main processor and 32 bit post-processor, 172 MIPS

What that buys you are the features such as lip sync delay, four-way crossover, easy implementation of all Dolby and DTS modes (except, of course, the new "HD" lossey and lossless stuff that requires considerably more power and HDMI, but that's another story) for products using the 49400, along with performance not possible in the 49326.

The "300" series DSPs haven't been used by any major brand for new products for three or four years.

But then again, you know better.

I find it strange the LMC-1 has one of the lesser Cirrus DSPs. My 2004 Harman Kardon 235 AVR has the 49400 chip. You'd think the 49400 would be "old hat" enough by now for Emotiva to easily include.

I just ordered a LPA-1. Lonnie is great to work with, lots of good info from him from the several long talks we had.

I just pulled the trigger on an LPA-1 and now I got a question, though it's a pretty easy one... I hope.

What's the best solution for connecting the preamp to the LPA? I'm going to use an Onkyo 804 as a pre, so I don't have the luxury of balanced in/outs, so it looks like I'm going to need 7 short little RCA cables, like these: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

for the sake of slightly better cable management would this work equally well: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

I know they're technically video cables, but is there really a dif?

Then again... after crunching the numbers I only end up saving a penny between the two different ways.

Oh well... Whats everyone else using?

I received LMC-1 replacement, and I am sorry to say that it also has the same hiss as the first one. So the first was not defective at all, its a flaw in LMC-1 design that doesn not match well with high efficiency horn loaded speakers.
I am returning Emotiva LMC-1/LPA-1 combo because it did not work for me and my setup.
Nothing bad about Emotiva, though.
I guess this is it, I am signing off this thread.
Good luck to everyone!

I'm guessing your high efficient speakers really are 6ohms or less and have high impedence causing your hiss. The fault lies in your speakers and not in the LMC-1. Since several of you want to make this a rip session, go right ahead.

Edit: Nevermind.

And how do you know it is not a fault of the LMC-1? Other brands of pre-pros and receivers do not seem to have the problem with these speakers, so just why is it the speakers fault? And it seems to be a issue with the LMC-1 for quite a few people, with more than just one brand of speakers.


http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/sho...76&Main=167676

Sensitive speakers or high efficient speakers as many of you call them are really not. If you experience hiss that is not a ground loop, your speakers have high impedence which requires more power from the amplifier to create loud sound. This combined with speakers that are below 8ohms can cause the hiss.

Many of you who returned your LMC-1 claim you missed the sound of the LMC-1. If the sound of the LMC-1 is so good why send it back because of some quirks? There's got to be more to a pre/pro than the DSP chip. If the LMC-1 uses an outdated Cirrus Logic chip, why does the sound quality of the LMC-1 please so many?

I do agree that the LMC-1 should have software updates to remove the flaws. It seems common practice that Pre/Pro manufacturers continuously update the firmware of their respective Pre/Pro's.

You are 100% wrong, you have it totaly backwards!!!!
High efficiency speakers require less power to create louder sound, not more!


Whoever you paid to buy the high IQ that you claim to have, you better ask him for your money back....
Because you are failing some of the most simple things in audio knowledge!

I learn something everyday.

Sorry, this is quite incorrect. Johnla is spot on - highly efficient speakers (particularly horns like Klipsch's) often require miniscule amounts of power. If you have 100+dB efficient speakers, you could realistically drive them to ear-splitting levels with just 5W or 10W of power. Also, you have mentioned several times that you assume the speakers are 6ohm impedance and that this is the reason for the hiss. The LMC-1 is a pre-amp only, and as such will perform the same no matter what impedance the speakers on the other side of the amp are. (For that matter, it isn't going to be effected by speaker efficiency either.) It is the amp that is affected by the efficiency and impedance, and a good separate power amp should be able to drive low impedance loads all the way down to and often below 4 ohms. Certainly many receivers have to make concessions in their power amp section design to shoe-horn everything into one chassis, resulting in designs that can't cope with low impedance loads, but that's one of the reasons that people move to separate amps - to avoid those concessions.

Go back to this post in which vddobrev swapped the LMC-1 out and used a Sony receiver as pre-amp with the LPA-1. The hiss disappeared. What does that tell us? It tells us that the LPA-1 has no problem driving these speakers (as well it shouldn't, with 125W per channel into highly efficient speakers). That leaves the LMC-1, clearly identified as the source of the hiss. The rational explanation is that the LMC-1's noise floor is high enough that very efficient speakers will be negatively affected - which is not the fault of the speakers. As I mentioned before, this sort of thing has happened before. Outlaw Audio even made hardware revisions to their old Model 950 processor twice to eliminate a condition like this that was first discovered by someone with very efficient horn-loaded speakers and a closet full of 5W tube amps. Claiming that fault lies elsewhere just doesn't work.

With what seems like so many people returning their LMC-1's, what does Emotiva do with the slightly used duds? They don't seem to be offering "B" stock. Are they reselling the LMC-1's as if they're new?

Hans,

Several of us have watched your posts with amusement. Let's try to summarize here:

1. You like the people at Emotiva and their products.

2. You like your LMC-1/LPA-1 combination despite flaws that you have also confirmed (DTS 5.1 issues on Gladiator) and a few other things.

3. You think others are unfairly bashing Emotiva


Other posters have written:

1. Emotiva customer service is good and caring, WHEN they get back to you. There have been some major gaps in communications

2.The Emotiva products have some issues that revolve around usability. This is particularly true for the LMC-1, which is admitted by Emotiva itself. It still is to release the "latest" software update promised a month ago that will cure all these bugs

3. There is definitely a documented hiss issue with the LMC-1. It has been reported by many users who own a wide variety of speakers.If speakers are efficient enough or if you turn up the LMC-1 volume loud enough you will hear the hiss.

Your blaming the hiss as the fault of the speakers demonstrates to may of us that you are :

A. in denial of facts

B. technically challenged

Pick one.

I think it is time for you to call it a day and go off and enjoy your new set-up, faults and all.
Let others who are truly bothered by the many documented shortcomings make their own choice. Over the past 18 months, Emotiva has been aware of all the problems and has been given more than one chance to make things right. The future of the LMC-1 is now in their hands.They know all too well what is wrong with this unit and it is up to them to come through with what they have promised to all of their customers.

I've learned a lot in this thread,not much about Emotiva as anyone can buy and try,which is what I did.Most of what I've learned is about human nature,which is much more complicated.I feel the same as I did about Emotiva but slightly more depressed about the human condition.

I would like to think that a company that offers 30 day return and 5 yr warranty would have people that buy it and try it,if they are so inclined.If they are satisfied they would say so,if not they would say"I tried it but did not care for xyz and sent it back".Trying to convince someone you must like it is about the same as trying to convince someone that since you don't like it they must not either.If you like it be happy,if you don't send it back,give a review and move on with your life.

Has anyone tested a new lmc with the new firmware?
Are there any corrections to most of the posted problems.

Hans,

Does your lmc have nay of the posted problems, does your unit have the latest firmware?