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Comparing Picture Quality FP vs RPTV

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I am the current owner of an Infocus X1 which I have truly enjoyed. I have put about 3000 hours on 2 bulbs. I am now considering upgrading to a Mits HD1000Uor Optima HD70. I currently throw a 70 inch diagonal image, but can go as high as 82 inch diagonal. Although the image my X1 projects is still quite good, I have found that the images I see on rear projection tvs set up in semi light controlled rooms at the retail stores have a picture quality which is significantly better than my X1. Since I can see these images , but I can't see the image on the new projectors unless I buy one, it would be very helpful to know how the picture quality I seen on well set up RPTV sets in the retail stores compare with the ones of the new sub $1000 front projectors.
In viewing the picture quality in the stores, I find that I am having difficulty describing this quality. In this forum there are lots of terms used, such as, film-like, plazma-like, contrast ( a much misused term), pop, punchy, and others. I find these hard to relate to, but it easy to see the difference in the picture on my X1 and the ones on the RPTV's (50 to 65 inch). It would seem to me that some kind of agreement on how to describe the image quality in a standard way would be helpful for all of us on this forum. 'To me, the best description of the RPTV's is that they have an almost 3D look. This is combined with good sharpness in the picture and a bright image. My X1 looks dimmer and more 2 dimensional. Any thought on how to better describe the images we see on these sets? Also anyone who owns one of the new projectors and can give comparisons on the picture quality of those versus what you have seen on a reasonably displayed RPTV in a store would help me a lot with my buying decision.
post #2 of 15
The X1 lacks contrast, decent blacks, good color saturation and dark detail. New home theater designed projectors stomp all over the Infocus X1 (I know, I'm a former owner).

The X1 was my first projector and I loved it for a little before becoming fixated on its flaws after reading CRT forum members jokingly refer to digitals as "flashlights" and how their CRT PJs have such "inky blacks" and 3D like image (something I definitely did not have with my X1). I now own two CRT front projectors and an Infocus 4805. All three costs hundreds less than my X1 did (I paid $1,000 for it) and all three absolutely crush the X1 badly (especially the CRTs). The CRTs obliterate it, but that's to be expected. The 4805, even though it's only 480p, looks a lot like a plasma tv look and beats the X1 in every category clearly.

The 4805 has over twice the calibrated contrast (this and darker black levels is what adds picture depth), quite a bit darker blacks (though nowhere near CRT), has much better color saturation (much richer colors), better dark detail and is quite a bit brighter. It's simply a much better unit.

My CRT projectors have nearly 19x (possibly more) times the on/off contrast of the X1 and black levels that no digital tv or projector can equal. They're not for everyone though, but they do provide the most stunning quality in a dark room.

An HD unit like the Mitsubishi HD1000U (which is only $899) will give you the HD resolution and a much much better image that is more like a RPTV. The X1 was a business projector that happened to have big crossover appeal. $500 projectors today crush it.

Check out a digital like the Mitsubishi HD1000U ($899 from Projector People) or Mitsubishi HC3000U.

The newer digitals look a lot like RPTVs. CRT projectors though easily beat digital RPTVs for movie watching. They have the most 3D appearance due to being the only technology that can turn off its light for black since they don't use lamps.

You will not want a RPTV anymore after seeing what's available in front projection today.
post #3 of 15
You won't be satisfied going backwards to a smaller screen. The x1 is really out of date and you can do worlds better nowadays in all respects. I would just replace the x1 with a newer and much superior projector.
post #4 of 15
I made a similar post earlier today..........

I have a Sony HS50, which compared to your X1, is night and day better..........however, as good as it is, the blacks are still not actually black...............or that close to it................

I am now considering selling my PJ, and going for the new range of SXRD Sony RPTV

I will be limited to 55" for cost and size reasons...........however, the SXRD technology, is superb..........much better than lcd or dlp

only CRT is actually better...................

funny, isnt it..............when crt was mainstream, everyone was coming out with flat TVs, digital PJs,

but now the dust has settled, anyone can tell, that the quality is no where near as good as old fashioned CRT tech...........yes, its old, but its also the best............

kinda like redesiging the wheel................hard to improve on !!

Im hoping the SXRD TV will be good, willl see one on saturday for the first time..........

Im willing to sacrifice screen size for quality..............I think 55" is big enough for a cinema type presentation............

my PJ screen is 72", but lack of true black is annoying, especially in dark films, which there are a lot of.............

PS: I hate plasmas, and lcd tvs...........horrible horrible things
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLW65 View Post

I am the current owner of an Infocus X1 which I have truly enjoyed. I have put about 3000 hours on 2 bulbs. I am now considering upgrading to a Mits HD1000Uor Optima HD70. I currently throw a 70 inch diagonal image, but can go as high as 82 inch diagonal. Although the image my X1 projects is still quite good, I have found that the images I see on rear projection tvs set up in semi light controlled rooms at the retail stores have a picture quality which is significantly better than my X1. Since I can see these images , but I can't see the image on the new projectors unless I buy one, it would be very helpful to know how the picture quality I seen on well set up RPTV sets in the retail stores compare with the ones of the new sub $1000 front projectors.
In viewing the picture quality in the stores, I find that I am having difficulty describing this quality. In this forum there are lots of terms used, such as, film-like, plazma-like, contrast ( a much misused term), pop, punchy, and others. I find these hard to relate to, but it easy to see the difference in the picture on my X1 and the ones on the RPTV's (50 to 65 inch). It would seem to me that some kind of agreement on how to describe the image quality in a standard way would be helpful for all of us on this forum. 'To me, the best description of the RPTV's is that they have an almost 3D look. This is combined with good sharpness in the picture and a bright image. My X1 looks dimmer and more 2 dimensional. Any thought on how to better describe the images we see on these sets? Also anyone who owns one of the new projectors and can give comparisons on the picture quality of those versus what you have seen on a reasonably displayed RPTV in a store would help me a lot with my buying decision.

one of these is not simply superior to the other they are different technologys. RP performs better in ambient light or any light period becuse the blacks on a front projection system are only as black as the screen in the light its being shown in...the smaller size of RP units allow more definition because there are more pixels in a smaller space but the size is limited and the viewing angle of PR tv's is limited as well. If you took a newer front projection system against a RPtv in a dark room the front projection system would win hands down they are just brighter richer colors higher definition, contrast and can go bigger than your (or my old) x1 or RPTV .
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the comments guys. My X1 is old and the bulbs being toward the end of their lives probably doesn't help either. I am still wondering if any current Mits HD1000U or HD70 owners have compared the picture on their pj's with those of a good RPTV. I would still be curious how they think the pictures compare. I do hate the thought of going back to an RPTV. They take up too much room and the picture would be smaller. All I am looking for is assurance that the 3D, bright look I see in display RPTV's is going to be achieved with the Mits or Optima.
post #7 of 15
why not get the HS60 ? for black level, contrast , and overall film like image, it is unbeatable for under $ 3,000............
post #8 of 15
I have a 4805 and it looks a lot like a huge plasma tv. The X1 cannot compare. The HD1000U will give a similar look except it is capable of a lot more detail and a much sharper picture than the 4805. These units are not business projectors like the X1. Most RPTVs though do have higher contrast, but the black are elevated because of the small high gain screen.

You might also want to check out a unit like the Optoma HD73 for improved quality. The best affordable quality is a CRT projector + Torus screen. Wow, just wow, is all I have to say about that.
post #9 of 15
ag studios- more likely half of that.
post #10 of 15
OK, I give my 2 cents.

Christmas Eve I made 2 new purchases : an Mits 1000u (720P-DLP) and a Samsung HLS 5676w (1080p-DLP)

While I'll give these items the highest ratings within their respective categories, and I love the big image the Mits 1000u gives.... hands down the 5676w blows the doors off the Mits 1000u in every way except size.

I'm viewing the 1000u at around 90 inches and the 5676 is a 56 inch RP display.

That being said, I do realize the 5676 cost twice as much as the 1000u.

Also, If I had only got the 1000u I would not have felt the need to upgrade my 20 year old 27 CRT Sony to the 5676.

After a week of soul searching and pondering I decided to return the Samsung.......the value and 90 inch image of the 1000u was too alluring.
post #11 of 15
I would never replace my 25" CRT TV, for daily viewing............in fact, normal tv, even digital is so low res, that the larger the screen the worse it looks...........

Im tempted to get the HS60, as I do like the larger screen, and PJs are small and dont eat into the room.......

What would be a step up from the HS60 ? ( no single chip DLPs please )
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagarc View Post

OK, I give my 2 cents.

Christmas Eve I made 2 new purchases : an Mits 1000u (720P-DLP) and a Samsung HLS 5676w (1080p-DLP)

While I'll give these items the highest ratings within their respective categories, and I love the big image the Mits 1000u gives.... hands down the 5676w blows the doors off the Mits 1000u in every way except size.

I'm viewing the 1000u at around 90 inches and the 5676 is a 56 inch RP display.

.

Uhm....

Zoom your 1000U 90" image down to 56"......feed both displays the same source, sit 1.5x to 2.0x screen width back, then report back

(also make sure your room is pitch black. In fact, you might have to turn off your samsung set when comparing as it would light up the room enough to affect the 1000u).

EDIT: I just saw you returned the Samsung RP set...oh well.

Fleaman
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Fleaman, I liked your thought. I am currently throwing a 70 inch picture with my X1. If I zoom it full in from where I am sitting it goes to 64 inches and the picture will brighten with more contrast. Not a lot, but enough to be noticable. With a brighter pj like the HD1000U I could probably throw a 70 inch image with lots of brightness and the picture might approach that of the RPTV units I have seen. Be interesting to know if anyone has tried this.
post #14 of 15
I replaced my 9 year old Sony 53" XBR Rear Projection TV with an HD70. I was quite pleased with the TV and it's picture is still excellent. However, it was not high definition and I found myself not even using the dedicated media room that I constructed. I purchased a Sony 34" XBR CRT for my family room and found that I would rather watch sporting events in High Def, or not at all.

I saved up for several months and set out to buy either a Sony SXRD 60" TV or a Pioneer Plasma. I always research and look at everything before I buy so that I make a better informed decision and get the most bang for my buck.

Several of my friends own very high-end projectors, ($10,000-$15,000) so I understand how they work. I just was never willing to invest that kind of money at this point in my life. I noticed that the local Best Buy had several projectors set up in a dedicated room and I had to check them out. They just received their first Optoma HD70 and they were playing with it when I walked in. They asked me what I thought of the picture and proceeded to tell me that it was under $1,000.

I came home from the store and did my usual research via the internet and bought one a couple of days later and have not looked back. I'm not sure that I will ever be able to go back to smaller picture at this point.

In my opinion there are some trade-offs at this point versus a rear projection set. You must have a room that can accomodate a projector and decent light control. The picture is not quite as bright and the blacks in general will not be as good as with a good rear projection set. But the wow factor and sheer enjoyment that you get from a very large cinematic experience is well worth the trade off.

I was lucky because when I constructed my media room 9 years ago, I designed it with the possibility of doing a projector some day. I had cable runs and electric installed in the area where I thought the projector would be and as chance would have it, the HD70 fits what I have.

If you can do a projector I highly reccomend it!!!
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLW65 View Post

Fleaman, I liked your thought. I am currently throwing a 70 inch picture with my X1. If I zoom it full in from where I am sitting it goes to 64 inches and the picture will brighten with more contrast. Not a lot, but enough to be noticable. With a brighter pj like the HD1000U I could probably throw a 70 inch image with lots of brightness and the picture might approach that of the RPTV units I have seen. Be interesting to know if anyone has tried this.

I have my Optoma H31 at only 60" wide

It looks better than any RP set I've seen in the stores....although that might be a bit unfair since all the RP sets I've viewed were not in darkened rooms and those split feeds they send out are of rather poor quality. Either way, everyone that sees my 60" pic is floored (when I have a reference dvd on that is).

(I'm in a small room)

Fleaman
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