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Anyone gone from 720 projector to 1080?

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Now that 1080 dvd material is available and 1080 projetors are more affordable, has anyone made the jump from a 720 to 1080 and if so is the difference noticable?

I have an IF7205 and have enjoyed 480 dvd and DVHS. Just got a PS3 and have watched a couple of 1080i movies thru my IF and my 50" pana plasma. While I think the picture looks good, frankly I'm a little disappointed. I'm wondering how much I might be missing between 720 and 1080.

Can someone who has made the jump give me their opinion? thx, joe
post #2 of 31
Went from Marants Vp12 S3 to the Sony VPl VW100 (Ruby) and found the picture to be better. More film like. Every bit of resolution is an improvement, but not night and day. Better, but law of diminishing return applies. You should go see a properly set up Pearl or even the JVC RS1 when it comes out. I have pre-ordered one. Loved it when I saw it. Good luck.
post #3 of 31
I remember reading a post about someone doing a test between 1080P & 720P projectors. I can't remember the exact distance, but it was something like 1.5 screenwidths back where noone could see the difference. Most of the newer 1080 projectors have other things that may make them better. Better C/R, processing etc.
post #4 of 31
I moved from 720p AE700 LCD to 1080p HC5000 LCD.

Appreciable difference for gaming (PS3 in native 1080p).

Not so obvious in video material but there are key scenes where the added resolutions is noticeable.

Biggest gain for me has to be the improved blacks and contrast.
post #5 of 31
I jumped from an AE700 to a Sharp 20K. Difference? Heck yah. Couldn't believe how much better SD def DVDs looked - as well as everything else. Big improvement. Of course, I doubt the difference is due to those four magical-marketing numbers: 1080. Instead, improved optics, DLP/LCD differences, better image processing, etc. probably had more to do with the improved image.
post #6 of 31
I'm having a tremendously difficult time choosing between the 720p AX100U (which has the brightness and throw distance to let me rear shelf mount it 18.5' away from the screen) or any of the sub-$5,000 1080p projectors out there (which would require ceiling mounting in my room, which is OK I guess, but I'd prefer not to have a projector directly over viewers' heads).

Do I get a 720p projector that everyone raves about for half the cost of a 1080p, and then wait for 1080p projectors to improve and drop in price? Or just go for 1080p now and not have to worry about upgrading later?

Decisions, decisions!
post #7 of 31
Soybean-
The never ending discussion...
Honestly, the AX100 is a totally different beast from the sub 5000 1080p group - not necessarily made specifically for first time front projector owners, the 100 does directly address specific problems front projectors have had in the past...brightness. This projector is a cannon and meant to specifically to excel in ambient light situations. I don't think you'll find that any of the current 1080p's (sub 5000 anyway) which are meant to output this kind of light.

The new JVC as well as Epson are going to have a large amount of installation flexibility so depending on your installation these might work for shelf mounting. In the end only you can decide whether holding onto that $2500 is worth it for you.

In terms of commenting in general for this post - I think what we are seeing is not only an increase in resolution, but also the newest and best tech that front projection has to offer being shown mostly in 1080p units. So, we aren't only getting the bonus from added resolution, but also amazing increases in contrast, picture depth, etc. I think you'll see many of us that have moved from more mid ranged projectors to these higher end 1080p offerings seeing these increases in quality manifesting themselves. So for someone not specifically moving from a 720p marantz to a 1080p marants...but like for me an LCD to the new 1080p guys - HECK YEAH! This looks awesome!
post #8 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

I can't remember the exact distance, but it was something like 1.5 screenwidths back where noone could see the difference.

Holly cow! If that is true, then why pay so much for the 1080 chips? Most people seem to sit between 1.5 and 1.8 times screen width. Perhaps manufacturers should have concentrated on making better 720 chips with reduced screen door and better contrast instead of going for more pixels. If the broadcast TV standard had simply called for 720p at 24, 30, and 60 fps, think how much cheaper and simpler HDTV would be today. Imagine how many hours of 720p at 24 fps movies you could put on a HD-DVD. With less compression they might look as good as the 1080 stuff. No?

IB
post #9 of 31
Thanks, vigga. I don't know why I wasn't considering the JVC RS1, but now I want it. Bad. A bit pricey for me, though. Maybe the AX100 can be my stopgap first projector solution until the RS1 or a similar model drops in price.

Actually, I haven't even moved into the home where the home theater will be in anyway. I'm just so excited about having a basement that I've been drawing up plans and whatnot based on measurements I took the last time I walked through. There's certainly the chance that real-world placement of my couch will violate the 1.5 screen widths rule, and I won't even care about 1080p.
post #10 of 31
I think you'd be surprised at the price point of the RS1 compared to the others.
post #11 of 31
I'm a bit in the same situation, debating wether to go from a BenQ PE8720 to a W10000. After a few conversations with people who wen this route, I did get the remark that the improved resolution of the W10000 did give a big difference. I havn't seen these side by side, however those are the comments I got.
post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMoi View Post

I'm a bit in the same situation, debating wether to go from a BenQ PE8720 to a W10000. After a few conversations with people who wen this route, I did get the remark that the improved resolution of the W10000 did give a big difference. I havn't seen these side by side, however those are the comments I got.

Someone should do a scientific test with two screens of exact size in the same room. Then have people walk in to a roped-off area of 1.6 times screen width from the scrrens. Then ask people to identify which screen shows a better picture, or which has better resolution. You would have to get projectors with the same contrast ratio and color saturation.

IB
post #13 of 31
I can't speak for projectors but the difference between a 15inch 1600x1200 crt display and a 640x480 crt display playing S.D dvd's is huge. The 1600x1200 display makes s.d dvd's look photographic. You would think that this would translate to projectors.
post #14 of 31
Gone from Sanyo Z2 to Mitsu HC5000. Difference between 720 and 1080 is amazing! HD DVD at 720 looks blurred by comparison! But HC5000 is the sharpest projector out there, so it can make a difference.
post #15 of 31
post #16 of 31
You need to realize that one of the big advantages to going with 1080p over 720p isn't so much resolution as it is reduction of the SDE.
post #17 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

You need to realize that one of the big advantages to going with 1080p over 720p isn't so much resolution as it is reduction of the SDE.

Same conclusion I came to. Now I want all that resolution and a 150" screen. More lumens please.
post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Same conclusion I came to. Now I want all that resolution and a 150" screen. More lumens please.

I agree, and I think I am going with a bright 720 projector and waiting for the (affordable) 1080p projectors to get brighter. Our main seating area is around 1.5 viewing widths so SDE with 720p is a non issue for us.
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I moved from 720p AE700 LCD to 1080p HC5000 LCD.

Appreciable difference for gaming (PS3 in native 1080p).

Not so obvious in video material but there are key scenes where the added resolutions is noticeable.

Biggest gain for me has to be the improved blacks and contrast.

Ditto bro, 1080p Cine2Fine PJs are a gamer's paradise, at least that is how i feel when i fly closed cockpit in my IL2 OpenGL sim.

As for others arguments for lumens, i have my HC5000 on max lamp and bought a spare lamp off the e-eecky bay for a ridiculous price. Loving every moment of it.

The bad thing is that with the Mitsu the poorly produced material's faults are even more obvious, but true HD looks marvelous.
post #20 of 31
More seating distance/resolution guidelines:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hit...esolution.html
post #21 of 31
jsaccio,

I feel you on the "disappointment" regarding HD (HD DVD in my case). Not that it's bad, not that it's not better than DVD, but the difference is, IMO, nowhere near what it was made out to be.

That said, if I were buying today (and I almost was) I would seriously consider a 1080p machine. Not because of the resolution (though that's definitely nice), but because of all the other improvements going into the 1080p machines but not yet the 720p models.

The RS1 is a perfect example, >10000:1 native (non-DI) contrast is phenomenal, combine that with it being relatively bright and surprisingly affordable. I think it's got the potential to knock the socks off even similarly priced 720p machines.

I think if you can do it, now is the time to go 1080p. I do expect cheaper 1080p machines to appear over the next year, but my gut tells me they'll be correspondingly lower performance too, ie it will be a while before you'll be able to get something with RS1 like performance for 1/2 the current RS1 price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

Imagine how many hours of 720p at 24 fps movies you could put on a HD-DVD.

Not much more. Check out trailers on thelookandsoundofperfect.com, there's "only" a 33% increase in bitrate for 1080p (or 25% less bitrate for 720p), they're only 6/8Mbps respectively and look darn good, especially considering HD DVD is often close to 2x that (ie 12-16Mbps).

I'm not sure how to explain it, but increases in resolution don't require a linear increase in storage. It's partially due to lack of true detail, and partially due to everything being "smoother" which is easier to predict/compress.

Quote:


With less compression they might look as good as the 1080 stuff. No?

Not necessarilly, by most accounts we're not losing anything to compression with currently, so more bitrate (or same on fewer pixels) wouldn't be an improvement.
post #22 of 31
As some have already said, what is most attractive about the 1080p projectors is not necessarily the increased resolution but the other upgrades in the projector. For example, Panasonic and Epson are simply not putting their best stuff in their 720p projectors, forcing buyers to move up to 1080p to get the better blacks etc. of C2fine. Too bad, but an understandable marketing move.
post #23 of 31
I rewatched several scenes in King Kong HD DVD (using XBox360 on component@1080i) to my HC5000 with a friend who was also there when we tested the same scenes with my AE700.

With the AE700, both of us felt that in composite scenes with CGI and live action sequences such as the one where Darrow was in the middle of the screen, and there were 2 TRexes (one in foreground and one in the background), the live action parts of the same scene felt very soft and blurry compared to the crispness and detail of the 2 CGI creatures. Originally, I attributed it to the source, but when I rewatched the scenes again with my HC5000, the features on Harrow seemed clearer.

Not sure if anyone else encountered this.
post #24 of 31
Keep in mind when people are upgrading from 720P to 1080P they are also upgrading to a PJ that has many other improvements besides resolution alone. They are not always comparing apples to apples so to speak. I wouldn't sacrifice many other aspects which comprise picture quality to obtain an improvement in resolution alone. Here is a good informal test that demonstrates this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767929
post #25 of 31
I'm so happy to have checked this thread. I'm finalizing a theatre now with seats at 10 ft and 15 ft back, leaning toward a 100 inch screen. I'm currently deciding between the 1080 Sony SXRD VPLVW50 and the 720 Yamaha DPX-1300 DLP. The Yamaha retails around $12k but a local store has one for $6000 new. That Sony is about $4700. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflfan7 View Post

I'm so happy to have checked this thread. I'm finalizing a theatre now with seats at 10 ft and 15 ft back, leaning toward a 100 inch screen. I'm currently deciding between the 1080 Sony SXRD VPLVW50 and the 720 Yamaha DPX-1300 DLP. The Yamaha retails around $12k but a local store has one for $6000 new. That Sony is about $4700. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

I had a Sony VPL-HS10 for some years and decided to upgrade it. I picked up the Pannasonic AE100 from Costco. It was brighter but the picture was not really that much better, if any than the HS10. SDE was reduced over the HS10 but that was about it as far as I am concerned. Then I picked up a demo Sony VW50 and compared it to the AE100. Wow what a difference. I am blown away by the picture of the VW50 as compared to the older HS10 and newer AE100. The AE100 is on its way back to Costco and a call to AVS was made to order the VW50. BTW, you can do a lot better on the VW50 than $4700 by going with AVS.

I use a light controlled room with a 119" High Power and sit at 12 and 16 feet. No SDE either and plenty bright in my setup.
post #27 of 31
At 12', does the 119" picture ever seem too big?
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflfan7 View Post

At 12', does the 119" picture ever seem too big?

That works out to a 1.2x view. Normal is 1.5x. Your call.
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by nflfan7 View Post

At 12', does the 119" picture ever seem too big?

I've yet to see a well projected image that looked too big. Not in massive single screen theaters much less a home theater. But that's me.
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell View Post

I had a Sony VPL-HS10 for some years and decided to upgrade it. I picked up the Pannasonic AE100 from Costco. It was brighter but the picture was not really that much better, if any than the HS10. SDE was reduced over the HS10 but that was about it as far as I am concerned. Then I picked up a demo Sony VW50 and compared it to the AE100. Wow what a difference. I am blown away by the picture of the VW50 as compared to the older HS10 and newer AE100. The AE100 is on its way back to Costco and a call to AVS was made to order the VW50. BTW, you can do a lot better on the VW50 than $4700 by going with AVS.

I use a light controlled room with a 119" High Power and sit at 12 and 16 feet. No SDE either and plenty bright in my setup.

Interesting. I also went from the HS10 to the AE100 (from Costco). The AE100 has better contrast and light output than the HS10, but the smoothscreen, optics or whatever make the picture less detailed and refined. But overall I prefer the AE100. Ironically I like the picture even more now that the bulb has noticeably lost output after about 600 hours.

Still, I'm sure like yourself the AE100 was just a holding pattern pj (because of cooked LCD panels on the HS10 after over 6000 hours in my case). Thanks to the AE100 and Costco's excellent return policy I'm in position to wait for the dust to clear a bit longer in the 1080 world.

But the fact that you went through the same projectors and upgrade process and are blown away with the Pearl gives a lot of weight to your opinion. How does the light output on the Pearl compare to the HS10?
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