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8G Pioneer plasmas - 80% lower black levels! - Page 8  

post #211 of 5892
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

What's your DVD player and does it also show up on other sources?

It's a SDI modded Philips 963 SA (the very best SDI player out there). The problem also occurs when I play the test video through my HTPC.

I've just read up on the manual of the test DVD. It sais this:

Quote:
This test video is almost ingeniously suited to identify the so called "phosphor lag" problem. This effect can be seen with all displays which are using phosphor to create the images: CRT projectors, CRT TVs and also plasma displays. The artifact is easy to see: Concentrate on the fast moving fonts. On the mentioned types of displays you'll usually see a green trail following the moving fonts. The blue phosphor is most often very fast while the red and green phosphors are noticably slower. Even when the electron shooting (UV with plasma) is already gone, these phosphor mixtures are still glowing - that's why the bright font is followed by a colored trail.

So my plasma shows exactly what the test disc claims it would show. If anyone is interested, you can PM me, then I can make the test video available for you.
post #212 of 5892
Whomever the hell these people are.

http://techdigest.tv/2007/01/ces_200...ee_3.html#more
post #213 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Don't hold back now Wojtek. Do you think you're being a wee bit harsh? Do you think that saying plasma PQ as it stands today "sucks" is a wee bit harsh? Do you think you may have just insulted the intelligence of every plasma owner on this forum?

Plasma PQ doesn't suck, but its not the display technology of the future.
post #214 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Whomever the hell these people are.

http://techdigest.tv/2007/01/ces_200...ee_3.html#more

Considering Pioneer's history of overpriced displays, can you imagine what a 50 inch set will cost, probably $20,000.
post #215 of 5892
Well to me from what I read it looks like the following:
768p models with the better blacks for roughly the same price what you pay now for their models but no further price reduction (around 3,5-4k MSRP! for the 50" I guess)
In one artical (if I remember right from cnet) a Pioneer spokesman said he don't believe that they will put that new technology already in this years 50" 1080p model. So I think their new 50" 1080p will be like the current one be more last generation roughly (so 7th G. of black) and the price may be arround 6k MSRP. !-IMHO-!

For me most important is the question if both the new "pure" and elite line will have the better black. IF the "pures" will have it I can choose between a Panasonic 50"1080p or the Pio 50" 768p but with the better black ( even if the the Panny should also have better blacks from what I read in there CES thread here) for roughly same price.
post #216 of 5892
I'll be shocked if the 60" 1080p Pioneer is much more than $10,000, if not exactly $10,000 MSRP. Considering Pioneer wants competition against Panasonic's 65" 1080p. The Panasonic now goes for about $9,500. The consumer doesn't care about "woo, purdy", they see "hey that Panasonic is 65", the Pioneer is 5" less and ..... wtf, you're crazy Pioneer", if it were to charge that $20,000. So I highly doubt this 60" 1080p will be anywhere near $20,000.
post #217 of 5892
I really do not care all that much about resolution I just hope Pioneer makes the better black technology available at somewhere close to the current price of their regular 7th gen 42" panel.
post #218 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gforce007 View Post

I really think it is inaccurate to say Panasonic shares a patent with Pioneer on this revamped plasma tech. Journalists would have picked up on it. Panasonic would have at least mentioned it. Panny plasmas are still going to be great after this new pioneer one comes out during the summer but I dont see how panny starts being able to sell a "premium" plasma like Pioneer is known for. If they really do share the patent, then good for Panny, but I really doubt it. The way pioneer was talking about it, it sounds like they did all the work and they plan on blowing everyone else away, whether it's SED or LCD.

I think that D-Nice's post alludes to the actual state of affairs between Pioneer and Panasonic (Matsushita):

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

"Interesting" thread. I think it's time for me to chime in.

First, patent sharing...
I cannot confirm or deny that Pioneer and Matsushita are not "evaluating" each other's key plasma technology features. However I can say that Matsushita can reproduce the same "reinvented" plasma panel right now.....if they wanted

They will not implement it right now because it goes against their current business model. Panasonic basically wants every household the be able to afford their plasma displays. They are well on their way in accomplishing that feat with their new plant and projected plasma production outputs. This new panel tech requires a complete overhaul of their plasma lines. So you will not see this tech in the PZ700 or PX75/77 series. They will roll out this tech in either Japan this November or the USA next spring.....all 1080p models.

I'm sure the term "reinvented" was chosen carefully and it definitely provides a hint about Pioneer's "new" technology.
post #219 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Plasma PQ doesn't suck, but its not the display technology of the future.

That is the great thing about SED. It will always be the technology of the future and never the present

- Rich
post #220 of 5892
Is there a full moon out?

A lot of people on all kind of threads are being very mean spirited.
post #221 of 5892


well spoken RichB
post #222 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Plasma PQ doesn't suck, but its not the display technology of the future.

OLED is truly the future (+10 years from now). I really hope you are not plugging you "SED" propaganda in this thread. When is SED scheduled to come out again?
post #223 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Considering Pioneer's history of overpriced displays, can you imagine what a 50 inch set will cost, probably $20,000.

Overpriced? Do you feel the same way for Fujitsu, Runco, B and O plasmas? For the record, they won't be anything close to that price. However I would pay 20k just to see your face when SED gets delayed again.
post #224 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

I'll be shocked if the 60" 1080p Pioneer is much more than $10,000, if not exactly $10,000 MSRP. Considering Pioneer wants competition against Panasonic's 65" 1080p. The Panasonic now goes for about $9,500. The consumer doesn't care about "woo, purdy", they see "hey that Panasonic is 65", the Pioneer is 5" less and ..... wtf, you're crazy Pioneer", if it were to charge that $20,000. So I highly doubt this 60" 1080p will be anywhere near $20,000.

My guess is that the 50" one will be around 7k msrp (based on what D-Nice said earlier about 2k more than 5k for 1080p if he was talking 50"), and that the 60" will probably be 10-11k. I would also assume that the 65" panasonic may dip down to the 7-7.5k range. I just wonder if the slightly improved panasonic blacks only apply to thr 768p line, or if they also apply to the newer 1080p models (the 50, and 58). Since we already know that the 65" 1080p has worse black levels than the current 768p line. I will just assume that the decision will come down to a 58" 1080p 750 series panasonic with better blacks than the current panasonics, or a 50" 1080p pioneer with revolutionary blacks. Summer 2007 will be a very exciting time for plasmas.
post #225 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

This is going to be a VERY expensive year for me. I'll be getting a both the 60 and 50" 1080p Pioneers, one 10th gen Panasonic, 2-3 BD players, 2 XA2 HD DVD players, new AV receiver with more HDMI ports, pretty much all BD and HD DVD releases. Hell I may even switch to D* if they actually get all the HD channels they claim are coming Q3 and Q4......as long as they lose the HD-Lite.

D* lose HD-Lite....c'mon D-Nice, you've got a better shot at being hit by a meteorite! So with all that stuff you're buying, maybe you can throw the 60" Pioneer my way? Doesn't sound like you'd even know it's missing with all the other toys.
post #226 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Plasma PQ doesn't suck, but its not the display technology of the future.

Judging from the rave reviews the new Pioneer is getting, I'm not so sure. We keep hearing of these new technologies (OLED for years and nothing but watches & cellphone displays), SED (a no-show both at CES and possibly forever) and all the other 'you just can't believe this display' technologies we hear about every day. In the interim, plasma keeps improving to the point that it virtually negates the improvements in the vaporware we keep hearing about but that never materialize.
post #227 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by soncomet View Post

My guess is that the 50" one will be around 7k msrp (based on what D-Nice said earlier about 2k more than 5k for 1080p if he was talking 50"), and that the 60" will probably be 10-11k.....Summer 2007 will be a very exciting time for plasmas.

Panasonic is geared up for bigger sales (than Pio) and has been pricing aggressively to beat down LCD sales.

For Pio to competitively compete, they're going to have to keep the prices in the ballpark. In other words, they can't take the attitude
for "their ballpark" to be- "If you build it they will come."

I hope the new Pio 60 is a lot less than 10g's. (I think it will.)
I'm definitely going to eyeball that 35 hundred bucks 60 Philips. Not expecting much but I'm definitely going to check it out.
post #228 of 5892
Here's some pics of the Pio in a totally dark room:







post #229 of 5892
5k for the 768p series? No. 1080p, above that by a couple k.




D-Nice is this estimate for the 60 1080p (7k)
or the 50 1080p?
post #230 of 5892
Bruzzi,
Did you take those shots? If so, how was detail in the black areas? It looks a bit crushed from those photos, but I know the camera could be at fault. I must admit that black looks black, not gray at all.

-Steve
post #231 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

Here's some pics of the Pio in a totally dark room:








These are the new Pioneers?
post #232 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Considering Pioneer's history of overpriced displays, can you imagine what a 50 inch set will cost, probably $20,000.

I am sure that the price will not be close to that, as D-Nice said. Also, isn't SED's problems the fact that it is going to be "OVERPRICED"? Production costs can't warrant coming in at a low price anyway. Hence... the delays.

What makes you so sure that the SED TVs won't cost a fortune?
post #233 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by slb View Post

Bruzzi,
Did you take those shots?

Nope. Those pics are from Impress Watch (www.watch.impress.co.jp).

Here's a translated version of the page:

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools



Here's their AV Page:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/



Oh man, I'm very MAD...

I was supposed to be in vacation (starting beginning of the year) so I could attend CES 2007. Unfortunately the person that was going to cover me had to do something and I couldn't go.



Quote:
It looks a bit crushed from those photos, but I know the camera could be at fault. I must admit that black looks black, not gray at all.

-Steve

Yup it looks crushed, but very very black indeed.
post #234 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

These are the new Pioneers?

Yup, shots from the 60" Model. Check out the link I posted above.
post #235 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruZZi View Post

Nope. Those pics are from Impress Watch (www.watch.impress.co.jp).

Here's a translated version of the page:

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools



Here's their AV Page:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/



Oh man, I'm very MAD...

I was supposed to be in vacation (starting beginning of the year) so I could attend CES 2007. Unfortunately the person that was going to cover me had to do something and I couldn't go.





Yup it looks crushed, but very very black indeed.

I find that it is really hard to get shadow detail in pictures. I think it's a combination of Pioneer's set up/video footage/camera. They are wanting to show off their 'blackness'... I guess.

Looks impressive.
post #236 of 5892
Ok well slb and D-Nice, if you think they share the patent, why the heck wouldn't Pioneer want to do this on their own? Wouldnt they want the credit? Dont they want the recognition that they were the first company to push plasma into SED territory or even surpass SED? Or did they partner with Panasonic to defray R&D costs? Pioneer made a note of mentioning that this was 2008 tech for them as well but "something" allowed them to be able to get it ready for this summer. Was it panasonic's collaboration?
post #237 of 5892
I hope we have more posts from people who have seen 8'th Pioneer. Picture really are tough to judge. For example, Cheez has some great pictures of his 7UY here.

The blacks look about a good as the new Pioneer even though the Pio is probably a great deal blacker.

- Rich
post #238 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I hope we have more posts from people who have seen 8'th Pioneer. Picture really are tough to judge. For example, Cheez has some great pictures of his 7UY here.

The blacks look about a good as the new Pioneer even though the Pio is probably a great deal blacker.

- Rich

That's the thing Rich... alot of people on the forums take some awesome pictures of their relative sets which makes the blacks look incredible. I see the images on the computer and go.. wow.. why complain about these blacks?

Now that I have had experiences on both the sets of my favorite TV photographers (Bsong and Noobie) I do not see those blacks on any of their relative displays in a complete dark setting. The Westy 42, and the Panny 9uk.

Are those blacks totally impressive for digital displays? Yes! Especially the Panny 9uk. But unless Bsong and Noobie, had super versions of the displays we all see. They're just really dang good at taking good pictures.

I don't think any sets right now get close to these new Pioneers/SED. An all black screen looks like it's turned "off". No Digital display is even close to that on the consumer market.
post #239 of 5892
Any chance that Pioneer and Panasonic would merge? It would explain alot of things.
post #240 of 5892
Quote:
Originally Posted by gforce007 View Post

Ok well slb and D-Nice, if you think they share the patent,

please re-read my initial post in this thread.
Quote:


why the heck wouldn't Pioneer want to do this on their own? Wouldnt they want the credit? Dont they want the recognition that they were the first company to push plasma into SED territory or even surpass SED?

How many manufactures are coming out with "un-measurable" contrast ratio plasmas this summer?
Quote:


Or did they partner with Panasonic to defray R&D costs? Pioneer made a note of mentioning that this was 2008 tech for them as well but "something" allowed them to be able to get it ready for this summer. Was it panasonic's collaboration?

I'm not touching any of this.
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