Jobs is a'talkin - Page 5

PSA - iTunes store now has the Macworld Keynote available for free download.

The sucker is 1.2GB lol.

-Jerry C.

Is it 1080p with 5.1 and in DivX??? If not, it's not worth anything...

I guess this as good of a thread as any to post this!

Not too many people seem overly concerned that the iPhone battery isn't replaceable. I'd hate to be locked into a 2 year commitment and have the battery die half-way thru and have to shell out another $100 for some third party to replace the battery.

I bought a $150 iPod Nano with a non-replaceable battery, but that's about my price limit. It's remarkable what Apple gets away with.

Jobs didn't announce a Mac Tablet, but OWC did! http://www.macsales.com

I expect the replacement battery market will be the same for this as the iPods.... but it strikes me that the 2-year agreement thing flies in the face of the iPod experience, where

a) your battery might not make it that long
b) 3 newer models will have been introduced in the meantime, with features that could have been a software upgrade for you, but Apple chose not to release (and being a closed system you can't even get approximations of them)

For the iPod market, Apple has driven people to upgrade based on b)... they won't be able to do that as much with this product.. which makes the closed nature of the device all the more offensive.

Windows Mobile blows chunks, and users (I am one) learn to soft-reset far more often that one should have to... but one can add new programs, write your own programs, and add a variety of storage cards, and/or peripherals that fit in the SDIO slot. The fact that this device runs OS X matters little if we can't interact with it more openly....

I think this device is aimed at early adopters (given its pricing).. and that crowd expects to be able to add their own programs, b/c they have been doing that all these years on Palm and WM5 devices. Superior/simple GUI works for the iMac (and my mother), but she is not the target audience for the iPhone.

Still it will be a good device.. always a shame to see Apple's control-freakishness keep it from being a truly great device.

Mike

Zim2dive just made the iPhone = Zune argument more eloquently than I did. Again, I don't believe iPhone to be Zune... just that it has some Zune like qualities. The iPhone's future looks brighter than Zune's -- though MS will surely try to force everyone to get Zunes by hook or by crook.

To Jyeesf and other iPod watchers, my prediction is the next top-of-the-line iPod will have a 100 GB HDD. 120 GB 1.8" drives were recently announced but those are still many months away. I'm not so sure Apple will include all the iPhone interface features in the next iPod for fear of cannibalizing iPhone sales. I expect to see one more fifth generation iPod announced soon, with 100 GB HDD and a couple of the iPhone features added, while the sixth generation iPod is held for a late 2007 / early 2008 release.... Just my reading of the tea leaves.

People keep bringing up things like "Windows mobile sucks but you can install all this stuff on it...". Well the reason it might suck so much is that it tires to do all these things and just makes a mess of it. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see apps you could add to the iPhone to increase functionality but I don't think it is entirely a bad idea to have Apple in charge of what is allowed to be installed on their phone. Large 3rd party developers could still make software that could be sold through the iTunes store.

People assuming Apple may not want to release an iPod with the same GUI and multi-touch tech in the iPhone for fear of cannibalization may be looking at things the wrong way. One old rule of business is that it is better to eat your own children than to have them eaten by someone else. The iPhone may have made all competitors look like prehistoric caveman devices, with all due apologies to Mr. Geico Caveman , but they have also just made the iPod look inferior as well. People may start to second guess their iPod purchases as well at this point. This is one reason companies don't like to pre-announce products too far in advance as it can kill sales of current products.

Another reason Apple may come out with an iPhone-like iPod sooner rather than later is price. They probably are going to price such a device far higher than the current top of the line iPod. If they drop a 100GB drive in it expect it to be $499 or even more, remember also there are no subsidies like a cell-phone here so the product must be profitable right out of the chute. Then can still claim it is reasonable because it wil have over 10x's the storage of the top iPhone and you can bet it will still sell pretty well. It wasn't too long ago when the iPod color 60GB model debuted at $599.

-Jerry C.

Don't forget that Apple has a one year warranty that covers the battery, including replacement. And for the most expensive iPod, you can get a 2 year warranty extension for $59. That would cover most people's worries about batteries. And after any cell phone is three years old, it's pretty much an old hat, anyways...


Doesn't anyone else see the linkage between these two comments? Steve Jobs said exactly that this is why the iPhone won't be open. He's not about to let some poorly programmed third party app or peripheral allow the iPhone to blow chunks (though his comments about a phone taking down the west coast was very Chicken Little-ish). But look for a good slew of apps from Apple, and I'm sure third party apps will certified through Apple, the way iPod games are starting to be allowed. This isn't a bad thing for a new product. I know people here aren't patient for Apple to stuff all of the features they demand into a product, but Apple can't please everyone here, no matter what they do.

Why do people even try to compare the two? They are completely different products with completely different market segments (let's see, should I get a zune, or an iPhone--I like brown, I'll get the Zune ).

The Zune has no phone capablilities, even, not to mention being void of 200 patents worth of innovation, or an inheritor of 5 generations of successful iPod legacy and iTS development. If people want to compare the Zune to an iPod, that's fine, and it fails miserably to match up with an iPod. If people want to talk about Microsoft's vision of home entertainment and productivity with handheld music players vs. Apple's, that's another whole discussion. But leave the Zune/iPhone comparisons aside before I go ballistic and rant for far too long on how terrible of a comparison it is. I really have better things to do with my life, than get into another vent about MS. But I'll do it if I have to.

This is a false assertion. WM5 sucks b/c it is unstable. 3rd party apps having nothing to do with it. If they shipped the phone as closed as Apple is, it would still suck. However it is an expandable suck .. at your whim, not by what some mother company decides is/not good for you.

I would not compare this to the Zune.. as I see the Zune as a late-comer me-too product that doesn't offer enough to the party.... ok, wait now I see the comparison

But I dunno... in some ways Apple is breaching a new market, and IMO making a critical mistake in its approach.... which will hamper/reduce its effort enough to simply be late to the existing party....

to untangle what I just said.. if Apple were to release this as open, it would be a watershed product, advancing every aspect of the market.. but instead they will step forward in some areas, and backward in others.

The whole idea of convergence to me is reducing the # of devices I carry.. if Apple prevents this device from serving my needs, then it does not reduce the # of devices I will have to carry, and ergo I have no reason to buy it.

Make it truly open, and I'd be 1st in line to buy.

Mike

On the iPhone, i think it would be safe to assume that gearheads like most AVSforum dwellers would like a more open platform. I don't think that Apple has the same thing in mind. They are going to be targeting the millions of nano users that would like to combine the phone and nano into one device. The introductory pricing is going to nab a lot of the early adoptor, "gotta have it first" crowd. Look for the price to go down once the prodcut has been around awhile. Happens all the time.

Plus i don't think the product path for the iPhone is in any way connected to the product path of the iPod. I can almost guarantee that a new iPod very similar to the technology available on the iPhone will be introduced at an Apple event before June.

Somewhere around $500 for the 100G 6G iPod with the large screen would be about right and sell tons. The availability of Wi-Fi and internet browsing would be probably be connected to a iTunes music buying track.

I think after all of these years with Apple, we should know better than to get a fully hackable geek device from them. That's not their target market. Remember "Computers for the Rest of Us"?

What do you mean? That's what my MacBook Pro is. I can install anything I want on it. It comes with developer tools for free, allowing me to create and install my own apps. It's based on Unix, I can even download the kernel source code.

I see MacOS as the ultimate combination of ease of use, great apps, etc.. and unix power / flexibility / hackability. I didn't even consider using MacOS before OS X. iPhone may be the OS7 of smart phones, and I may wait for the OS X.

FYI, macrumors has posted the specs for the AppleTV :

- 1 GHz Pentium M, 2 MB L2 Cache
- 350 Mhz Front Side Bus
- nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 VRAM (GeForce Go 7400)
- 256 MB DDR2 400 Mhz RAM

Also mentioned is that the unit does in fact contain a cooling fan.

-Jerry C.

This ought to kick of another firestorm of complaints.

Has it really been confirmed that the iPhone's battery is not replaceable, at least in the conventional manner?

Looking at the photos, the entire back of the iPhone is chrome, with the exception of the little black piece on the bottom. It looks suspiciously like a compartment for "stuff".

During the keynote, this is where the special cable was sticking out from to display the iPhone onto the huge screen.

OK, here's the first: this is a rumour site and we should wait until the product is actually available before complaining!

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if this thing is powered by an elderly gerbil as long as it's able to perform up to the task. But that's not enough for AVS forum members. If a device doesn't meet their targeted specs, then the device is failure and sure to flop in the market.

Personally, I'd prefer a young gerbil, but OK. I doubt that it will fail to meet its specs, but as has been pointed out many times, it is not for everyone. I've got my Mini connected directly to a projector that is hanging directly over it (the Mini), for example. But there are probably many, many people who would love to connect their Mac to an LCD or Plaza display and get the correct resolution. It is those people, I expect, will buy the product.

iPhone will sell like hotcakes at first. But it will have to evolve a bit to remain popular.

The battery issue is a minor concern for me (although, I agree with ftaok, the black section at the bottom of the back looks like it might be removeable). Of more concern:

Will the iPhone have voice-activated dialing. My last two phones (Moto V710 and Moto E815) have voice-activated dialing and I use it frequently, usually with a Bluetooth headset. I can't imagine going back to a phone that doesn't have voice-activated dialing.

Will it be compatible with the Bluetooth in most automobiles? Granted, a fairly new feature but one that's very valuable when driving.

I remain hopeful that these features will be addressed in iPhone. If not, it won't be a long-term success.

Mark

NYT has some disappointing news on the iPhone...

- currently it has no speed dial interface (one would have to imagine it will get added)
- Jobs is quoted as saying Java is not there as it is a "heavyweight ball and chain" no one uses.... tho I have to wonder if its also not there b/c it would be a backdoor around Apple controlling the apps on the phone.
- no GPS integration.. that Google demonstration seems awfully misleading unless Google got the location info some other way
- still up for grabs whether you can use your existing music as a ringtone (geez even my 8125 dumbphone does that...)... I can hear those cha-ching sounds in the background of this decision...

On the plus side, they confirmed you can add calendar info from the device, tho I considered that a given (scary that it was even up for discussion), else iPhone would not replace a PDA.

Mike

You have to remember Apple did not want to debut the iPhone they pretty much had to. The FCC certification was going to blow the lid on the whole thing and Apple wanted to intro the phone with as much of a bang as possible and I think they made the right move. Six months away is a long time to add and change things on that device. One of the most intriguing things about the design of the iPhone is the bare minimum of hardware buttons. This means they could really do just about anything they want feature and interface-wise.

I am not sure how the Google Maps demo was misleading though. I watched the keynote twice now, god I am such an Apple whore , and both times I saw Steve enter in a search for Starbucks and use it to find the location and number of the store. The red thumb pin that dropped from the sky onto the Starbucks not the Moscone center. The whole time I was wishing that it did use GPS but was never under any illusion that it was being demoed that way.

-Jerry C.

I thought about this post for a bit, and then realized that I've never had a non-replaceable battery, or any battery die on me. It's not because I've had stellar luck, it's just because I've moved on to new products before the batteries died. I'm one of those earlier adopter latest gadget types.... a marketers wet dream. It gets me in trouble sometimes, but I have a feeling I'm not the only one of my kind.

The Google maps demo was just like using it from any PC.. He typed in "San Francisco", and it zoomed on the city. He then typed "Starbucks", and it put thumbtacks on the various locations.

The thumbtacks had a nice animated effect to stick into the map. That's the only part I saw that looked different than my normal google maps experience.


It would be nice if it had GPS capabilities. But, I don't think they were misleading at all.

Speaking of GPS.. Does anyone know if the various other phones that advertise "GPS" functionality are doing true GPS? Or are they doing some other location estimation via the cell network? I'm just basically wondering if that's a reasonable feature to expect for future versions.. do others really do it - or would it take too much power? GPS would be a fantastic feature, for mapping, for location integration on the photos taken with the iPhone camera, etc.

I am looking at getting the Eten M700 at about $650 unlocked....go to Eten.com to see the spec...but here some major points..

1) Sirf star built in GPS
2) quad band phone...no 3G
3) Edge and GPRS
4) wifi...a & G
5) SDIO micro sd card...so you can get 4gb and store all your music
6) play all music format include AAC and mp3
7) window mobile 5.0...500mhz pcoket pc
8) slide out keybd
9) bluetooth
10) touch screen.

you can get the x500...a lot thinner..because no keyboard.

Meh, more of the same stuff on other Windows Mobile that you see everywhere plus you have to buy that Micro card. I can't seem to find any bigger than 2GB and those are like $70. Playing on any of those Smart Phones has never been an enjoyable experience for me personally and they always seem to get jerky and unresponsive. If you like the Eten I say go for it but unless someone really needs some of the more business oriented features that some of the smart phones have I would say the iPhone looks to be a more fun consumer oriented product, as it stands now.

-Jerry C.

2G mini SD card for $23 on dealnews, 4G for $45 (mini is what my phone takes) took me 20 seconds to find that. If you need micro, give it a week, deals on such cards always cycle thru.

Agreed this is much more of a consumer device.. I still wonder that they aren't pricing it in the business realm ... its more expensive (even double) what many WM5 devices cost and Apple has said Cingular cannot give Premier customers (I am one) a discount.

When Jobs said we could run real desktop applications, I took that to mean we could copy over our own existing apps, tho all subsequent reports say this is not the case. I'm not sure how you can call something you have to buy thru iTunes, a real desktop app? Apple seems to not comprehend how much acceptance OS X has gotten b/c of having unix under the hood (and thus being so open).

Mike

I was surfing Appleinsider this AM, and found this Jobs quote (referrring to cell phone carriers)

"There's some hubris, where they think they know better," Jobs said. "They dictate what's on the phone. That just wouldn't work for us."

Personally, I find the irony striking...

Mike

I think that there is enough uncertainty here with how Apple is going to support apps on the iPhone's OS X, that we need to wait until Apple clarifies the issue. There is raging debate over at Howard Forums about this issue, and it isn't productive. My opinion is that Apple needs to control tightly the roll-out of their first phone to assure success. Any little stumble due to instability caused by apps (or anything else for that matter) will be a huge media event, as the nay-sayers will devour Apple and its Apple-istas. Watch for the release of the iPhone to be one of the most highly watched, media reported, hyped and overblown product rollouts ever. Any apps bundled with the phone will meet strict assurance guidelines, whether they are built by Apple or not. Then as the iPhone is tested out, the third party environment will be invited in to whatever degree that Apple thinks is appropriate.

I believe that because the OS X will be optimized for whatever chip, it will necessarily be different from the Core Duo line that it runs on now. So whatever apps are run on it will most likely either have to be optimized for that OS (in a similar way that apps have to become universal binaries or Intel-native via xCode i.e.), or they will have to run in emulation (ala a Rosetta-esque environment). Look for much information to come out at WWDC this summer. And as Apple tightly controls both tools, they will be able to maintain ultimate control over what can run on the chip. Of course hackers will have a hey day (hay day??) trying to open up the iPhone. But I think that Apple will be walking a fine line between restricting and allowing access. Ultimately, they will have to allow whatever applications on the chip that its customers demand, or sales will suffer. With all of the potential of OS X, users won't be content with a handful of widgets and a calendar or addressbook, and Apple knows that.

So, once again we must wait and endure the dearth of info, and again be buffetted by the wrath of the rumor mongers... until??? If nothing else, Steve Jobs knows how to play the suspense card. Though if Apple doesn't throw some bones to the dogs, they will eat him up by release time.

As to using 4GB cards, just make sure that your phone can see them. Many devices have a 2GB limitation, although there may be ways to flash some of them to allow using cards over 2GB.

On another note, my extensively hacked 8125 is very stable, certainly more so than my old Palm 4 phone (which was, however a flip, which I miss.) But on the 8125, I have installed stuff useful to me, and on my main screen I can see scrolling RSS feed from the NYT, BBC and EndGadget, as well as updated weather forecast, upcoming appointments, email, etc.. I also have installed Lexipedia, which puts the WHOLE unabridged Wikipedia database (just under a gig) on your Mini Card. I also have TomTom GPS maps for when I am driving in Europe (works great with a credit-card sized BT Sirf III GPS:-)

Ironically, if you want the look of an iPhone now, there is already a fully working skin for WM5, which looks just like the iPhone:-) It has already been taken down from xda-forum, because Apple's attorneys obviously work on the weekend:-), but if one really wants it, it can be found....