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Why bother ???

post #1 of 78
1/9/07 at 11:12am
Thread Starter 
Why does the movie industry bother to mix 8hz signals when most,if not all movie theaters cannot reproduce signals that low to an audience that large.

Now we have threads on how the infrasonics that low don't impact a film as the frequencies two octaves above.

I understand the theory and where the impact of a film lies, but we use to be in a race to get the lowest possible frequency response to capture what was recorded in a film.

My reason for designing a system that can play that low and sustain that signal was that the director intended for me to hear and feel it.

Just wondering.........KG
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post #2 of 78
1/9/07 at 11:19am
I was soooooooo sad to hear that Blackhawk Down---IRENE has bass in the 5-7hz range.

I seriously doubt if I'll every really be able to get a system that can do that.

Why don't they just limit the lower end of the bass at like 10-15hz....that way even the MID-LEVEL HT nuts who only have 1 or 2 good subs could be able to enjoy it.
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post #3 of 78
1/9/07 at 12:36pm
KG, the answer to your question is, so we have to buy better subwoofers.

BG, the answer to your question is, better to put it in and not be able to reproduce it, than it is to be able to produce it and it not be there.
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post #4 of 78
1/9/07 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

KG, the answer to your question is, so we have to buy better subwoofers.

BG, the answer to your question is, better to put it in and not be able to reproduce it, than it is to be able to produce it and it not be there.

Some of us have subs that will reproduce it no problem Seaton Sound Submersive-1
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post #5 of 78
1/9/07 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

Some of us have subs that will reproduce it no problem Seaton Sound Submersive-1

Yes , we do......... Where is that FR graph link ?

Art
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post #6 of 78
1/9/07 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

Some of us have subs that will reproduce it no problem Seaton Sound Submersive-1

That just proves the point of my answer to KG, and lets you take advantage of my answer to BG.

Now what about that 2Hz stuff?
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post #7 of 78
1/9/07 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

BG, the answer to your question is, better to put it in and not be able to reproduce it, than it is to be able to produce it and it not be there.


Very true.......very very true
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post #8 of 78
1/9/07 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Typical forum mentality Morons .

We'll see who pee's the farthest later. Why do studio's mix so low ? That was the OP.Theaters can't play that low.

Now riddle me this.Four 15" Tumults (6 feet away)...5800watts.....flat to 8hz.....now we can see who pee's the farthest.Oh, 1880 cubic feet.Adds up fast !
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post #9 of 78
1/9/07 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Typical forum mentality Morons .

We'll see who pee's the farthest later. Why do studio's mix so low ? That was the OP.Theaters can't play that low.

Now riddle me this.Four 15" Tumults (6 feet away)...5800watts.....flat to 8hz.....now we can see who pee's the farthest.Oh, 1880 cubic feet.Adds up fast !

OK ,so maybe you can pee farther but I'm setting up my theater in my wife's Expedition with my four Seaton's this weekend.
Oh, and by the way , I have the largest penis on the forum.

Art
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post #10 of 78
1/9/07 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Oh, and by the way , I have the largest penis on the forum.

Art

I was wondering what happened to that. Can you please return it to me?
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post #11 of 78
1/9/07 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

OK ,so maybe you can pee farther but I'm setting up my theater in my wife's Expedition with my four Seaton's this weekend.
Oh, and by the way , I have the largest penis on the forum.

Art

Art I dont want to know about that last part and also I wont be over to MOVE THOSE DAMM THINGS DOWN THE STAIRS AGAIN
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post #12 of 78
1/9/07 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Typical forum mentality Morons .

We'll see who pee's the farthest later. Why do studio's mix so low ? That was the OP.Theaters can't play that low.

Now riddle me this.Four 15" Tumults (6 feet away)...5800watts.....flat to 8hz.....now we can see who pee's the farthest.Oh, 1880 cubic feet.Adds up fast !

riddle me this one Submersive-1 (dual 15's 1000watts) in a single sealed box smaller than most SVS's can do this in a 2400Ft^3 room

and the max sweep is before any eq and yes the top of the scale is 125db and it did go to 4hz
LL
LL
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post #13 of 78
1/9/07 at 5:25pm
you are ALL morons!

2 x 18" Avalanche XBL^2s, Crown K2 each, 650 effective liters each done in 6ft x 28"diameter sonotubes with 8" ports, tuned to 12hz, flat to 8hz (where the HP filters kick in).

now WHO has the biggest pen0r again??!
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post #14 of 78
1/9/07 at 5:36pm

But I can get the job done with just 156liters

Dont you guys know its not the size of it but how well you can use it
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post #15 of 78
1/9/07 at 6:17pm
sandbagger, I ask this seriously - is that FR supposed to impress? You're not even flat to 15hz. Sensitivity decreases as frequency decreases, so at the very least, you'd want to be flat

Stand back ladies:


That's one of three subs to be built for a total combined cost of ~$2000, each capable beyond reference levels. You guys go ahead and spend your big bucks trying to keep up with small subs and various EQ tricks that are within the rules your wives have laid out for you Sherv is on the right path.

And I'll raise the ante, here's to 200hz.
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post #16 of 78
1/9/07 at 6:26pm
But Steve, what good is having such a large unit if your wife says it's so big, she doesn't know what to do with it, and won't even allow you to bring it in the house?
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post #17 of 78
1/9/07 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

riddle me this one Submersive-1 (dual 15's 1000watts) in a single sealed box smaller than most SVS's can do this in a 2400Ft^3 room

and the max sweep is before any eq and yes the top of the scale is 125db and it did go to 4hz

I had to edit my last post.I'm not impressed with that graph.It shows no better than a bandpass subwoofer of days gone by.I would call it a mountain graph.Or a fat man laying on his back.

Interesting the slope of the response as it trys to reproduce 35hz at 125db.
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post #18 of 78
1/9/07 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

OK ,so maybe you can pee farther but I'm setting up my theater in my wife's Expedition with my four Seaton's this weekend.
Oh, and by the way , I have the largest penis on the forum.

Art

I have to say I'm lost for words.
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post #19 of 78
1/9/07 at 7:35pm
Thread Starter 
But..once again...why mix so low if movie theaters can't reproduce it ?

There are about 10 HT in america that have the kind of ability "WE" retards have..and I love each and every one of you........but I guess I'll have to live with my question and now, back to the penis jokes!

You guys are the best!!!!!
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post #20 of 78
1/9/07 at 7:43pm
On the other hand, it would be somewhat short sighted to say there's no sense in encoding what most venues can't reproduce today. And another thing to keep in mind... while most theaters may not be able to reproduce extreme LFE, properly equiped home theaters can. I would imagine that those responsible for making these soundtracks have some of the best home theaters around, as do their peers. Perhaps we aren't the ones they are trying to impress.
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post #21 of 78
1/9/07 at 7:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

On the other hand, it would be somewhat short sighted to say there's no sense in encoding what most venues can't reproduce today. And another thing to keep in mind... while most theaters may not be able to reproduce extreme LFE, properly equiped home theaters can. I would imagine that those responsible for making these soundtracks have some of the best home theaters around, as do their peers. Perhaps we aren't the ones they are trying to impress.

We need to get "Them" on this forum to do a little explaining.I think i'll start to do some homework to see who these guys are.

Kgveteran:roving reported for the AVS forum,looking for answers,turning every stone.
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post #22 of 78
1/9/07 at 9:02pm
KG, like Darin says, I think they are doing it for the HT crowd, as most movie theater subs will have VERY sharp highpass filters below 30-35hz. If we're crazy enough to build such low reaching and powerful subs, surely they are as well.
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post #23 of 78
1/10/07 at 6:04am
Seriously ,I wonder if some of the stuff down low is even intentional.

Art
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post #24 of 78
1/10/07 at 6:16am
It has to be. It's too conincidental. Most of the really low stuff happens at times when you'd expect really low stuff (with certain exceptions, like Batman's Scarecrow). The content is either recorded, or it's synthesized. If it's recorded, it's possible that the super low stuff just made it's way in accidentally, but I would think someone at some point would have had to make a conscious effort to extend the FR of their recording equipment that low. Sound engineers don't just hit a big red record button without much thought. If there's a concern that unintended rumble from passing trucks, wind, or whatever is going to be present, they filter it out. And even if it DID get recorded accidentally, then it's still part of the original "event" that they're using as a sample, and therefore valid. And if it's synthesized, then I don't see how it could be accidental.
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post #25 of 78
1/10/07 at 6:40am
oh yeah?? OH YEAH??? My Sony headphones supposedly produce sounds in the 5 hz range.

That's probably not true though, although I have tested 'em as low as 16hz.
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post #26 of 78
1/10/07 at 6:56am
They probably do. The question is: are your ears enough to let you perceive such low frequencies at typical playback levels without the added tactile effect you'd get from a sub and/or shakers?
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post #27 of 78
1/10/07 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

They probably do. The question is: are your ears enough to let you perceive such low frequencies at typical playback levels without the added tactile effect you'd get from a sub and/or shakers?

probably not
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post #28 of 78
1/10/07 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Seriously ,I wonder if some of the stuff down low is even intentional.

Art

I'm 100% sure all is intentional. Just think of the animated movies for example.
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post #29 of 78
1/10/07 at 7:03am
my Infinity BU-80 is the best subwoofer evar!
LL
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post #30 of 78
1/10/07 at 7:10am
I had an email exchange with a lead engineer from Todd-ao in late 2005 about how movies are mixed ... here was the question as I posed it ...

Quote:


Bill, I need your help in clarifying something. When it comes to what you actually record in the DVD process, do you put bass below 18 Hz onto the DVD ? A lot of people are posting "Waterfall Charts" which show how much bass is present at frequencies from 1 Hz and up. In "War of The Worlds" and "Batman Begins", these charts show signifigant bass below 10 Hz. Is there real information at 10 Hz on these discs ?

Thanks,

Craig

The answer:

Quote:


The editors and mixers may be "recording" these frequencies, but it is not always as deliberate as one might think. Yes, the editors cut and design sounds that these frequencies exist in. Did they measure this, or even intentionally put them there? Generally, their cutting room cannot reproduce these low frequncies. On the mixing stage, do the mixers really discretely control these low frequencies? Yes, they are in an environment where they usually "hear" or "feel" these frequencies. Is some of the information recorded under 20 hz. on the recording unintentionally due to inadequacies of the monitoring environment? Yes.

Any one trying to reproduce the 0-20hz frequency range flat will only be reproducing frquencies that for the most part were unintended for playback.

Thanks,

-----------------------------------------
Bill Johnston
Sr VP Engineering
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