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IMO: The JVC RS-1 is the Best 1080P at CES - Page 2

post #31 of 315
Impressive review.

I am really excited about it again!

One more month!
post #32 of 315
Tom, what room at Ceasars is the RS1 in??

I was looking for JVC today around the main convention center and south hall without success!
post #33 of 315
The thing that excites me about these reports is they are all very consistent. From Cedia to EHExpo to CES. Thanks Tom for the great report
post #34 of 315
So 120" from 15 ft. looked great?

Now I am stoked, I was a little worried.. 123" at 18ft should be OK..
post #35 of 315
I just saw the sharp Z20000 on a 130" firehawk at 6th Ave. electronics on RT 17 in NJ. Ilower the lights and shut the door to get as littel ambient light as possible, and was truly impressed. I was watching HDnet promos at about 1.25x distance (I used to own the 710- for comparison)

IF, and this is a big IF, the RS1 can match or surpass the quality of the Sharp -
it will be not only an amazing image- but a huge bargain to boot.

I'd love to hear more RS1 vs. 20K comparisons.

ALso what happened to Jason's review - did I miss it?
post #36 of 315
Thanks for the good review Tom. It's reassuring to keep hearing good things about this projector.

I applaud JVC for their efforts in bringing in new breakthrough technology at an affordable price for most. Kudos to them.
post #37 of 315
It's late. I'll try to make this quick and to the point. Spent lots of time today with RS1 and HD-1. No one has metioned that an HD-1 is also being demoed in a room/theater, right across from the Pearl shoot-off room.

When I arrived at the RS1 room there was a pack of AVS members lurking ...including Tryg. The Fast and Furious HD-DVD was running via HDX-A1. I also brought King Kong, Superman Returns, Apollo 13, Get Gray...and a light meter. The JVC team was extremely technically knowledgable and cooperative. They also produced a better meter and measured as well. Disappointingly, King Kong would not play because the HDX-A1 must have not had up to date firmware.

Subjective observations: I would normally save this for last, but I feel I must lead off with something. After long study today, I am sure that with this projector they have made several significant technological improvements that cummulatively add up to quite a remarkable achievement. There are some stand-out characteristics, but it is their cummulative affect on the overall performance that impresses so. The obvious is the much ballyhood subject of perceived resolution. The 1080p res, contrast and color impress mightily. The resolution is just insanely sharp; at times seeming too revealing to the source. Learn to live with seeing imperfections in the source such as dirt hits, film grain and skin texture. We saw it all in abundance today. But it was glorious.

Screen: ST-130, 96" wide, 16:9. No 2.35 CH for any of the demos. Calibration and settings were "out of the box."

On/off constrast/blacks are near dead black and neutral in color. Pluge excellent. Letterbox areas in dark scenes invisible. This is stunning and unbelievable when first seen. We had to get up and see that we could still make a shadow. Superman Returns is a different movie on this projector due to this.

Ansi contrast gave an initial impression of being not so good in the RS1 room, but we quickly saw this was due to the brutally white ceiling just a couple of feet away...and the rest of the white room. Still, it had loads of CR; probably on the order of 300:1 or better. The solo HD-1 demo was in a good, dark room and its ansi contrast was superb, as would the RS1 had it been in that room.

Full field white on low lamp measured 14 foot candles, but I agree that this seemed low for what we were seeing. With the screen gain factored in, I think we were pushing the upper teens in foot lamberts. At the Pearl shoot-off, I was quite surprised that that HD-1 was at LOW ("Standard") lamp setting on a 120" wide ST-130 screen. I was not able to measure, but it still looked quite good, although not quite as good as the solo demo.

Color gammut was very pleasing, robust, and accurate-looking.

Grayscale on gray steps/ramps looked very good!

White field uniformity superb.

Full white field was pure. I was never sure I saw any impurities.

Panel convergence was perfect...quite amazing.

Big lens front element makes the large lens shift possible.

Very quiet fan!

Technically, it appears the two projectors are the same, although they indicated that the RS1 will enjoy some extra tweaks and goodies the they were not ready to announce. RS1 has the better warranty. HD-1 to be sold by BB, CC, etc. They will try to keep HD-1 off the internet. With the RS1 they will be aggressive in preventing internet sales. I was told this pre-production model was at 99% of production model performance, but the implication was that the extra 1% would be worth it. Production elements and components are in place at the factory awaiting the final go-ahead to begin production.

There will probably be a custom installer dealer demo program cranking up soon.

Stunningly great attitude by all the JVC personnel. Kudos to all.

Tired of typing.

P.S.-Strangest thing seen at JVC was a 2.35 RPTV prototype.
post #38 of 315
Nice review Cam Man, I think I will stay on the Pre-order...
post #39 of 315
Cam Man nice write up. Can't wait to see the HD-1 here in early February.
post #40 of 315
Hi, I am just confirming. The one we pre-ordered from AVS, it is for the HD-1, right?
post #41 of 315
Thanks for the write up Cam Man. Looks like you confirmed that the 18 foot lamberts was on the smaller screen. I think everyone was hoping for 18 on the large screen. We all appreciate your observations.

The prebuy was for the RS1.
post #42 of 315
Best buy and CC are going to carry a JVC projector and one that's priced over $6000 retail? That should be interesting. I honestly don't know how they can sell lots of these without using the internet. Unless I'm missing something JVC just isn't even close to being shown in retail stores like Sony and some others.

But it all depends on the amount they want to sell I guess, and maybe attempting to create more dealers, but I don't really see trying to keep them out of mail order. That is kind of backwards considering what they did with the pre-buy and also AVS being a dealer.
post #43 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Tom / kolson - thanks for the updates. One point of clarification please - as I'm a bit confused. Was the 18ftL number quotes for the 120" screen downstairs, or the 110" upstairs. If it was for the 120" that would make quite a significant difference (nice improvement) in the lumens.

When I originally read Tom's post, I thought he was referring to the downstairs machine. But his later post referring to the JVC person who said there was an initial measurement at 14 and then a correction with a better instrument leads me to believe it was the upstairs (110") that was measured at 18 FL. Unfortunately, I did not talk to the same person and we will have to wait for Tom's confirmation. I can say that the 120" seemed more than bright enough and the JVC person there confirmed that it was running on low lamp.

KO
post #44 of 315
I'm wondering if he wasn't talking about 14 foot candles. This converts to just over 18 foot lamberts on a 1.3 gains screen.
post #45 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Tom, what room at Ceasars is the RS1 in??

I was looking for JVC today around the main convention center and south hall without success!

Look in 2 places. The HD1/Pearl comparison is behind some black curtains at the back of the JVC consumer showroom, which is in the Augustus Ballroom at Caesars. The RS1 is in suite 2634 in the Palace Tower at Caesars.

Like many other companies, JVC appears to have decided that the booth rental and other costs at CES are not justifiable. They do not have their primary products on display at the "official" show.

KO
post #46 of 315
Thanks for the reports guys. I wish I was there, but next year I will be at the CES!

Ok now JVC complete this fine PJ by including vertical stretch. I read some members talking about a possilbe firmware option. What are they waiting for??

Ben
post #47 of 315
I thought this was invite only to see the JVC over at Caesar's? Can a regular CES badget get me in? I must go. I've been at CES the last 2 days to be so disappointed by not getting to see this PJ.
post #48 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

I'm guessing your ceilings must be 8ft. or lower. If they are at least 9ft, you should be able to mount the pj directly under the center chair in the 3rd row. By putting it directly under the chair you avoid anyone hitting their head on it, since they can't stand directly under where the pj is.

I will try this method. Based on my throw, I will either try to mount under second or third row like you mentioned. I have 8'9" celing (after drywall). Thanks for the idea.
post #49 of 315
"I honestly don't know how they can sell lots of these without using the internet. "

Maybe by just letting people look at them and be wowed, assuming they don't blow the setup.

Frys has high end Sharp pj's in their demo room at full price, so why can't CC/BB have JVC's?
post #50 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolson View Post

When I originally read Tom's post, I thought he was referring to the downstairs machine. But his later post referring to the JVC person who said there was an initial measurement at 14 and then a correction with a better instrument leads me to believe it was the upstairs (110") that was measured at 18 FL. Unfortunately, I did not talk to the same person and we will have to wait for Tom's confirmation. I can say that the 120" seemed more than bright enough and the JVC person there confirmed that it was running on low lamp.

KO

I understood that the 14-FL was measured off of the projector not taking screen gain into account. This would be consistent with a measurement of 18-FL off of the screen given that the StudioTek 130 has a gain of approximately 1.3. Also wasn't 120" the width and not the diagonal?
post #51 of 315
Look for around 11% difference in price.
post #52 of 315
Great writeups, but I guess I'm a bit confused on the difference between the RS1 and the HD1--if the HD1 will be sold at a (much?) lower price, then we need more details on the advantages of the RS1 version. Indeed, if the HD1 really does make it into places like BestBuy, this means expected extra savings from coupons, store-wide sales, etc. and the comfort of a 30-day return policy. Plus the extra convenience of buying locally (with the downside of sales tax). I would think that this close to production/availability there would be more info on this.
post #53 of 315
Tom, KO, Cam Man: Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions of the RS1.
post #54 of 315
Powerbuy was for the RS1...is that still correct?

I too would like to hear what the differences are between the two versions.
post #55 of 315
Just keeps getting better ! Thanks for the time and effort guy's! Sure is exciting . I can't wait to finaly have a projector where the blacks are better than gray ! Johnathan
post #56 of 315
You guys have all been great with reports thanks again to all.

Can't wait for my unit.
post #57 of 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroenen View Post

Tom, KO, Cam Man: Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions of the RS1.

Likewise, thank you! Great, descriptive "first hand" reports.

But there's one little problem with these descriptions of incredible sharpness, among the other attributes. TheLion, who has yet to see an HD1 or RS1, has emphatically stated numerous times to this topic:

"An 3-chip Lcos design will NEVER be remotely as sharp as a 1-chip DLP with good optics - simple physics."

So it should obvious from all the "first hand" reporters from Cedia, EH Expo, Europe and now CES in multiple locations.....that JVC has clearly Jedi mind tricked all of them.
post #58 of 315
Vigga,

where did you get the 11% difference in price from?

BTW thanks tom, ko and cam man for your honest impressions of the new jvc projectors.
post #59 of 315
Quote:


"An 3-chip Lcos design will NEVER be remotely as sharp as a 1-chip DLP with good optics - simple physics."

I don't think you quoted him quite right. I think what he said was more along the lines of (and I am NOT quoting him verbatim):

Quote:


A 3-chip design will NEVER be as sharp as a 1-chip DLP with good optics - simple physics.

That statement, though close to yours, is absolutely correct. No 3 panels can ever be aligned PERFECTLY, so a single panel design will always be sharper. How much sharper? That part is debatable...
post #60 of 315
Quote:


I too would like to hear what the differences are between the two versions.

I got the vibe that the HD-1 was targeted to places like BB and CC, but I think that is what CES is about; they have to sell it to these retailers, and I got no vibe that this was a done deal with respect to the HD-1 (not that I would hear anything like this). The RS1 has a different marketing path, and there was plenty of meeting going on to find strong commitments for wholesale purchases. Occasionally, I had to leave the room so that such discussions could be made in private.

Technically, the final differences will be minimal it appears, but there is room for some uncertainty about the final bells and whistles. JVC is definately looking into a "calibration feature (application?)." I didn't press for more info, as it seemed the idea was not fully developed yet. I did infer that this was a feature that would only be available or could only be used with the RS1. Could this be a venture with William Phelps? Don't know. They were quite emphatic that the RS1 would be a product receiving a lot more care than the HD-1...or at least that is what I inferred.

I don't think the price will be much different. They specifically told me that they have gotten burned by doing this in the past, and don't want it to happen again. That said, I think the HD-1 might be a reasonable choice for pure DIYers that do not want significant tech or installation support from the seller, and can live with the one year warranty. For stronger enthusiasts, DIYers who need/want defintive, proactive design and installation support, then the RS1 is the better choice it would seem.
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