or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › dual/double layer recording question
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

dual/double layer recording question

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hi again.

1. are dual layer and double layer the same thing?

2. Main question....Let's say I have a settop recorder that records dual/double layer dvd's..my 533H.

On a single layer dvd, the best quality I can get is 1 hour on the dvd, let's say.

On a dual/double layer dvd how do I get that one hour on single layer equivalent quality?

i.e. I have a 2 hour show I want to record. To get the best quality on single layer disk I would use 2 disks and set to record one from say 1pm to 2 pm and then the 2nd disk from 2pm to 3pm, thus 2 disks at 1 hour quality.

Now, if I take a dual/double layer disk. and set the timer to record from 1pm to 3pm(2 hours), will that give me the best quality video, equivalent to 2 single layer disks with 1 hour using the whole disk on each of the 2 single layered one?


In other words, for me I try to get my best quality video reocrding to 1 hour per single layer disk, which means 1 hour fills up the whole disk. So how to I get that same quality on a dual/double layer disk? Or can I?


3. just curious on this question...what do I get if i set a dual/double layer disk to record just 1 hour on it....to use the whole disk for 1 hour recording?

-----------------------------
It would be nice to put a 2 hour show on 1 double/dual layer disk and get exactly the same great quality of 2 single layered ones with one hour filling each of them.

sorry for the redundancy, but sometimes i worry that i will be misunderstood or make no sense..thanks folks..t
post #2 of 10
1. Yes.

2. Set the recorder for XP, just like you would for a SL disc. But, be warned, a DL disc does NOT have twice as much recording space, it has 8GB, or 1.8 times as much as a 4.4GB SL disc.

3. I don't believe you can do that, at least not with a Pio 640 you can't.
post #3 of 10
What kjbawc said, plus:

1. Dual-layer is the -R naming convention, and Double-layer is the +R name (different standards orgs).

2. See kjbawc answer.

3. The highest quality is XP/LPCM (MN32), which writes at ~10Mbps, which fills up a 4.7GB DVD with a 1-hour program...to make that 1-hour program fill up a 8GB disc, you'd have to write at a higher quality/bit rate (~18Mbps), which you can't do with a SD consumer-level recorder.

[Bobkart has done some tests with higher (HDTV-like) bit rates, which did use more disc space, but it wasn't with a typical SD recorder...computer and standalone burner, I think?]
post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 
wow! that is great..thanks guys..

I sometimes set a timer recording i.e. from 1pm to 3 pm and on the speed use auto....will that do the same thing as xp on the dual layer and equal quality of 1 hour per disk on SL? thanks..t
post #5 of 10
If it can do it at all, it would be close to XP but not quite since the DL disc will hold 8GB, which is not quite double the 4.4GB of a single-layer disc.

However, I'd do a test to make sure you're writing at ~8Mbps or so 'cause the AUTO mode may be keyed to a 2-hr SL disc, which would fit a 2-hr program on the disc at SP quality.

If recording to HDD, it can't possibly know in advance that your going to put that program on a DL disc, so it can't possibly write at a higher bit rate. That leads me to believe it may write at a bit rate that will fill up a std 2-hr SL disc rather than a DL disc???

Even if writing directly to a DL disc, not sure if your DVDR will sense the disc type and set the AUTO mode to a bit rate anything other than its "standard" 2-hr rate (SP mode for a 2-hr program)???
post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

If it can do it at all, it would be close to XP but not quite since the DL disc will hold 8GB, which is not quite double the 4.4GB of a single-layer disc.

However, I'd do a test to make sure you're writing at ~8Mbps or so 'cause the AUTO mode may be keyed to a 2-hr SL disc, which would fit a 2-hr program on the disc at SP quality.

If recording to HDD, it can't possibly know in advance that your going to put that program on a DL disc, so it can't possibly write at a higher bit rate. That leads me to believe it may write at a bit rate that will fill up a std 2-hr SL disc rather than a DL disc???

Even if writing directly to a DL disc, not sure if your DVDR will sense the disc type and set the AUTO mode to a bit rate anything other than its "standard" 2-hr rate (SP mode for a 2-hr program)???

That's why I said to set the rec speed to XP. Then you are sure.
post #7 of 10
Since you really get about 126m on a SL disc at SP, I calculate you would get about 114m on a DL disc at XP. This would vary by brand of disc, but we all know the only DL discs to use are Verbatim +RDLs.

If you have a DVDR with a HDD, you could do a little experiment. Record 2 hours at XP on your HDD. Load a DL disc. Hit "Copy to disc." It will refuse to do it at High Speed, but want to do it in realtime. Click "No." Keep deleting from the HDD recording in 30, or 10 sec. increments, trying to record after each deletion. When the DVDR finally says it will record at HS, you will know exactly how much the disc will hold in XP. You can decline to do the recording, but make note of the time for future use.
post #8 of 10
i believe the pio 533/633 will only record to the DL -R.

the 640 will do both the DL -R and +R.
post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

[Bobkart has done some tests with higher (HDTV-like) bit rates, which did use more disc space, but it wasn't with a typical SD recorder...computer and standalone burner, I think?]

Right, I used TMPGEnc to encode some material at 15Mb/s (the most it would let me do). I was curious whether various players/recorders would have a problem playing it back at more than 50% higher bitrate than specifications allow. As it turned out two of the four playback devices I tried had no problem while the other two did. Just FYI. (Hmm, now that I have an HD-DVD Player, that would be a fifth device to try . . . )

But to get back on topic, 115 minutes at maximum bitrate is the most I usually can get on a DVD-R DL, using my Pioneer 633. Different brands of (DL) disc shouldn't change that since I believe they all have the same capacity. But I suggest sticking to Verbatim. However, the video material itself will change (slightly) how much you can get on a disc. I started using that approach kjbawc suggested to determine exactly how much I could get on a disc at all of the various recording qualities, until I realized that it wouldn't be an exact answer due to slight differences in actual bitrate due to different material being encoded. I've seen around 63-65 minutes at XP on a single-layer disc depending on the material involved.
post #10 of 10
According to the 640 manual, different brands, and even I think, different batches, of SL discs may have slightly different recording times. I would assume this also applies to DL discs. But, you are quite right, recording time can vary by how many bits the program takes. In my limited checking of this, I haven't found a variance of as much as a minute, recording from analog cable TV. I get at least 126 min from a SL disc at SP, and never more than 127 min. I have only used three brands of discs.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DVD Recorders (Standard Def)
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › dual/double layer recording question