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Why didn't everyone here just go with HD DVD?(or Blu-ray)

post #1 of 22
1/10/07 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Ok. Right now I am about 50 percent for HD DVD, 20 percent for Blu-ray, 20 percent for DVD, and 10 percent for downloading.

Now here's my question, why when these formats were announced, didn't the whole forum just agree on one format?(preferably HD-DVD because of price) I mean, we are all consumers and we want this thing to end as fast as it can so we can buy the movies we want. Yet, we are all still the early majority that are buy the players and movies. WE are deciding the format war as of now, not necessarily J6P.

If all of us start buy with blu-ray or HD DVD then we can end all of this! The samsaung is now in reasonable price range and HD DVD players are even lower, down to $200.

The first thing that will come up is: "Well, only HD DVD has the movies I want, or only Blu-ray does!" My response: eventually, when one format dies, the studio that was supporting that format, will most likely RE-REALESE those movies on the wining format!

I know a lot of people here have already bought their players and don't want to buy the opposite format, but if a lot of the people here are buying next gen players from their own format, then they have the money to make this move. Because in the end, it will all save us money.

So let us all please decide once and for all!
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post #2 of 22
1/10/07 at 5:20pm
Didn't you start this thread before?
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post #3 of 22
1/10/07 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Didn't you start this thread before?

Ohh, not that I'm aware of.
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post #4 of 22
1/10/07 at 5:27pm
I think we all wish we could, but I'll be the first to admit I've got my heels dug deep into HD DVD. But I'm all about what makes sense and what's good for the consumer.

Let's be honest here. Blu-ray wasn't ready to be an affordable solution. HD DVD used more advanced software to make up for blu-ray's expensive capacity. Not only is HD DVD players more affordable and software cheaper to produce, but the end result is a better looking picture.

While I commend Sony for thinking outside the box, the format is just not consumer friendly.

If all studios produced titles on both formats, I think it's pretty clear that HD DVD would be the consumers choice. But Sony knows it's only chance to win this war is to screw the consumer and keep it's share of studios supporting one format only.
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post #5 of 22
1/10/07 at 5:59pm
There are titles on BD that I want. The BD camp simply hasn't yet produced a superlative player at the right price-point. Current HD-DVD machines have some issues.....as do the BD devices, but it seems to me that Toshiba is really trying to earn my business and that of other early adopters by providing a variety of reasonably priced stand-alone units with logically stratified feature-sets.
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post #6 of 22
1/10/07 at 6:25pm
I bought HDDVD since it was first to market and for a first player out in a format the price was incredibly low. It was too easy in that with the disc and player prices nothing to lose. I would ,however, have paid much more since I really wanted it. Right off, the quality of the transfers was sky high. Hell , how could you not fall in love with what it gave us unless you had some bias against it. The number of releases picked up pretty nicely and many I wanted. Still ,generally excellent quality. What not to love ?....the best film based HD we have ever had. Now, however, the releases are slowing to the point that I don't have enough to watch on the weekends so I bought a BD player today. Not that there are are many but there are a few BD tiles I want to see. Had HDDV kept getting a few titles I wanted every week or two I would have not bothered with BD at least yet.

Art
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post #7 of 22
1/10/07 at 6:25pm
The problem is that opions vary. Some people want it right now and have no patience, or perhaps are of the opinion that downloadable content will be here soon so just go for a stopgap solution. For these people HD-DVD is suitable.
For others who want a longer term solution and are prepared to wait a a little for prices to drop, or those who think that capacity and scalability are critical, BD is suitable.

Hence the war, it depends on if you think cheap fast evolution is better than slow expensive revolution. No right answer.
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post #8 of 22
1/10/07 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I bought HDDVD since it was first to market and for a first player out in a format the price was incredibly low. It was too easy in that with the disc and player prices nothing to lose. I would ,however, have paid much more since I really wanted it. Right off, the quality of the transfers was sky high. Hell , how could you not fall in love with what it gave us unless you had some bias against it. The number of releases picked up pretty nicely and many I wanted. Still ,generally excellent quality. What not to love ?....the best film based HD we have ever had. Now, however, the releases are slowing to the point that I don't have enough to watch on the weekends so I bought a BD player today. Not that there are are many but there are a few BD tiles I want to see. Had HDDV kept getting a few titles I wanted every week or two I would have not bothered with BD at least yet.

Art

I feel the exact same way. My wife and I look forward to movies on the weeked and have been watching HD DVDs every friday night. There arnt any more to watch..we own them all. Ill do whats best for me now, and most likely buy a BD player to watch the 5-10 BD out now I want and hope for the rumour tittles to come.

which player did you get?
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post #9 of 22
1/10/07 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I bought HDDVD since it was first to market and for a first player out in a format the price was incredibly low. It was too easy in that with the disc and player prices nothing to lose. I would ,however, have paid much more since I really wanted it. Right off, the quality of the transfers was sky high. Hell , how could you not fall in love with what it gave us unless you had some bias against it. The number of releases picked up pretty nicely and many I wanted. Still ,generally excellent quality. What not to love ?....the best film based HD we have ever had. Now, however, the releases are slowing to the point that I don't have enough to watch on the weekends so I bought a BD player today. Not that there are are many but there are a few BD tiles I want to see. Had HDDV kept getting a few titles I wanted every week or two I would have not bothered with BD at least yet.

Art

Welcome to format neutrality Art, hope you enjoy all the HD content that there is to offer out there.
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post #10 of 22
1/10/07 at 7:24pm
Why doesn't everyone like the New York Giants?

That's the nature of the beast. People form their own opinions and make their decisions based on them. As is often said, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same things.
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post #11 of 22
1/10/07 at 7:27pm
I'm aligned with Mark0

I'm put off by being bullied into a format. On principal I won't even consider a Blu-ray product this year and if HD DVD hits their numbers (2.5 million) by years end I likely will hold out and stick to one platform in 2008.

I'm big on dealing straight. I download iTunes tracks rather than P2P. I've never downloaded a movie. So the fact that these studios are basically slapping me in face and telling me "my way or the highway" leads me to stick to the highway a bit longer.

That being said I'm disappointed that the studios have slowed down HD DVD releases leading some of us to expect a big bang for CES which didn't come.
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post #12 of 22
1/10/07 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyg View Post

Why doesn't everyone like the New York Giants?

Or why don't we all vote for Coke/Pepsi and kill Pepsi/Coke? I hate it when I go to (fill in store or restaurant) and all they have is (fill in the one you don't like).

At this point with the XBOX360 add-on and the PS3 out there, people on this forum really don't have the power to kill either one. Other than insiders. Microsoft, Universal, Warner, Toshiba, or Sony (and maybe Fox) could probably end this thing (just not for the side they prefer), but not just people on this forum deciding to get together and support only one.

--Darin
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post #13 of 22
1/10/07 at 7:38pm
Maybe if HD DVD came to market first with the same disc capacity and studio and CE commitment that BD was claiming it would have been possible to get concentrated support from the early adopters. However, Toshiba elected to offer their hardware at a discount to the consumer and go it (nearly) alone from a hardware perspective while shoring up three significant studios. Sony elected to entice the remaining studios and CE manufacturers with projections of PS3 installed base and promises of high profits to go around for everyone.

As such, many early adopters chose the relatively less expensive format that was demonstrating high quality transfers from inception while others waited on the delivery of BD's promises and possibilities.
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post #14 of 22
1/10/07 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Or why don't we all vote for Coke/Pepsi and kill Pepsi/Coke? I hate it when I go to (fill in store or restaurant) and all they have is (fill in the one you don't like).

That's why I drink root beer.

Quote:


At this point with the XBOX360 add-on and the PS3 out there, people on this forum really don't have the power to kill either one.

The game machines are also the reason universal players won't solve the problem.
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post #15 of 22
1/10/07 at 9:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

The game machines are also the reason universal players won't solve the problem.

I agree. I've tried to make that point. If universal players were 100% of the market it is one thing, but 60% or even 70% and they don't solve it (unless it results in a win for one side that had enough single format players as defense to get the studios to only release on their discs).

I'm thinking about starting a thread asking how much cheaper players manufactured in China by Chinese companies can be at retail vs players manufactured in China by non-Chinese (like Japanese) companies for these next gen formats. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people feel that the gap between those has to be pretty big.

--Darin
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post #16 of 22
1/10/07 at 10:03pm
The system hasn't worked like it was supposed to work.

In the case of DVD, for example, a number of companies made proposals and pieces, which formed into two different standards. Finally, and under pressure from the studios, these converged to one standard that everyone agreed to. Even the Divx product (which never really had a chance) was a variation of this standard.

This time, it didn't come together. Too many reasons and conjectures why. One theory I have is that the studios didn't realize how hard it was going to be to get customers to buy into a format war. They didn't realize how happy most people are with DVD and how the benefit would be seen as marginal compared to the risks.

Taking my own case, I am willing to go either way. I have my preference and can argue it all night, but the fact is, if someone can decide in an authoritative way, I will go along. Either my current choice wins, or I have another spare DVD player to put someplace else, no big deal.

The problem is that no one has taken a leadership position, and "let the customers decide" hasn't worked.

I said 18 months ago that the CE companies would have been better off to flip a coin for the format and then split the royalties. I think the studios would agree.
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post #17 of 22
1/10/07 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I'm thinking about starting a thread asking how much cheaper players manufactured in China by Chinese companies can be at retail vs players manufactured in China by non-Chinese (like Japanese) companies for these next gen formats. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people feel that the gap between those has to be pretty big.

I would think the difference initially would be the acceptable profit margins, since BOM cost would be similar, even possibly higher for China design since initially they have to buy everything outside.

So assume a BOM cost of $200, and profit margins of 10% vs. 30%, what do you get? Another scenario of profit margins of 20% vs. 50% would be interesting.
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post #18 of 22
1/10/07 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

since BOM cost would be similar, and profit margins of 10% vs. 30%,

Would the BOM and margin also vary with the volume?
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post #19 of 22
1/10/07 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

So assume a BOM cost of $200, and profit margins of 10% vs. 30%, what do you get? Another scenario of profit margins of 20% vs. 50% would be interesting.

Still the same retail margins, right? So, we're talking the difference between $220 wholesale and $260 wholesale ($240/$300 for your other one).

Doesn't seem to be big enough for people to rush away from popular CE.

Gary
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post #20 of 22
1/10/07 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lymzy View Post

Would the BOM and margin also vary with the volume?

Yes, but I feel those are very aggressive margins to begin with.

BOM is tougher call. Depends on how strategic the pricing of HW/SW components is. OTOH, as a very simple example, while a China company would have to license iHD from somebody, a Japanese company may have developed their own version to use in their player. OTOH2, I would guess that Microsoft will be giving a pretty good bundled deal on the WinCE-based designs. OTOH3, I would guess they would give a good deal to a Japanese company that wanted to make one. OTOH4, they might give the China design a better break to encourage even lower costs and thus more sales. In short, it can be spun in any way that anybody wants...

Somehow I doubt Amir will answer this one.
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post #21 of 22
1/10/07 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjack View Post

Yes, but I feel those are very aggressive margins to begin with.

BOM is tougher call. Depends on how strategic the pricing of HW/SW components is. OTOH, as a very simple example, while a China company would have to license iHD from somebody, a Japanese company may have developed their own version to use in their player. OTOH2, I would guess that Microsoft will be giving a pretty good bundled deal on the WinCE-based designs. OTOH3, I would guess they would give a good deal to a Japanese company that wanted to make one. OTOH4, they might give the China design a better break to encourage even lower costs and thus more sales. In short, it can be spun in any way that anybody wants...

Somehow I doubt Amir will answer this one.

OTOH5, they might even be part of the ALCO venture. But all this doesn't matter unless LGF and Disney would blink before Universal does, right?
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post #22 of 22
1/11/07 at 5:48am
Quote:


Why didn't everyone here just go with HD DVD?(or Blu-ray)

Because I am happy with what I have. No point in trying to get involved in the fray. When the bodies are sorted out in a few years then I will buy. Not before.
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